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Going to Failure
Spokez70
Posts: 548 Member
I read a lot on MFP about lifting to failure. What are the benefits of this?
I'm doing the Stronglifts 5x5 right now- should I be just going until I fail every single set? If I did that I don't think I would be achieving 5 by the last set- it would probably end up being something like 7-6-5-5-3 or whatever. Or maybe on the last set of each exercise just try to squeek out a few extras so it ends up being 5-5-5-5-6 or something.
My goals are to become stronger and maintain LBM in deficit. Thanks in advance for any advice.
I'm doing the Stronglifts 5x5 right now- should I be just going until I fail every single set? If I did that I don't think I would be achieving 5 by the last set- it would probably end up being something like 7-6-5-5-3 or whatever. Or maybe on the last set of each exercise just try to squeek out a few extras so it ends up being 5-5-5-5-6 or something.
My goals are to become stronger and maintain LBM in deficit. Thanks in advance for any advice.
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When I can I go 5-5-5-5-failure over 5. In addition, if I have time and am feeing for it, I'll add one at a little lower than the working weight and try for 9-10.
The idea of strong lifts is planned progression so if you go to failure in each prior set, you can't reach the last 5. It's at least how Mehdi outlined it in his guide/emails.
Hope that helps.
(ETA: YMMV - no expert.)0 -
I haven't read the stronglifts program in detail but I would assume that they probably talk about this.
So my reply here is purely opinion: I don't think you need to hit failure and if you do decide to rep out on any sets I would do it on the final set and not the previous sets, at least for the main barbell movements.0 -
I have some confusion about what 'failure' is. Right now I am doing 3x12 and by the 11th rep I am losing form and barely able to complete or just doing half of a rep to finish. By the thrid set I am only able to do about 8-10 reps. Is this failure or like dropping a weight considered failure?
I've only been lifting for about 3 weeks, so my weight is low but difficult enough for me as a newbie.0 -
Given the frequency with which you're performing the big lifts on programs like stronglifts, I would do the prescribed number of reps and no more. When you're squatting heavy 3x a week, leaving a little in the tank is a good thing.
5x5 could be a little much for someone in a caloric deficit as is, but that's another topic.0 -
I haven't read the stronglifts program in detail but I would assume that they probably talk about this.
So my reply here is purely opinion: I don't think you need to hit failure and if you do decide to rep out on any sets I would do it on the final set and not the previous sets, at least for the main barbell movements.
^^agreed
I would not try to go for failure, if at all, on any but the last set. Stick with the program of doing 5's. If you have a lot of gas in the tank at the last set, then imo, there is nothing wrong with adding a few extra reps to the last set.0 -
I have some confusion about what 'failure' is. Right now I am doing 3x12 and by the 11th rep I am losing form and barely able to complete or just doing half of a rep to finish. By the thrid set I am only able to do about 8-10 reps. Is this failure or like dropping a weight considered failure?
I've only been lifting for about 3 weeks, so my weight is low but difficult enough for me as a newbie.
"Going to failure" is what you are doing.
The 5x5 program is intended to not go to failure except on the last set.0 -
It depends on the lift to me. Pushing yourself 5x5 on bench, OHP, barbell rows it may be ok to fail on the last or last couple sets. Those are easy to spot/safe to fail on.
I would never fail on a squat on purpose. NEVER. I'd also stop as soon as any form break downs on it.
On deads there's usually 2 spots where you fail, and one is it never making off the ground and the other transitioning from using the legs to where you use more of your back at the top of the lift. Neither are as unsafe as failing on a squat. Squat fails are the one thing in the gym that make me nervous.
If you have good spotter(s) they can be done safely (as powerlifters fail all the time), but it's hard to find competent spotters and even a well adjusted rack may not be enough.
I know personally my quads fail on a low rep squat and my back/core loses it on high rep squats.0 -
Paul Carter posts on this a lot, and I tend to agree with a lot of the stuff he says.
When you're first starting out, I think there's merit to pushing the limits a bit more. As you get stronger though, the exercises will take more and more out of you, and I think recovery becomes more and more of an issue. I don't think intermediate or advanced folks need to be pushing to failure regularly, and even beginners can benefit from keeping the weight manageable and focusing on being explosive and dominating the weight that's on the bar (as opposed to grinding it out and taking a freaking hour to finish your set).0 -
Sincere thanks to all the great responses- solid advice. Love this group.0
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It depends on the lift to me. Pushing yourself 5x5 on bench, OHP, barbell rows it may be ok to fail on the last or last couple sets. Those are easy to spot/safe to fail on.
I would never fail on a squat on purpose. NEVER. I'd also stop as soon as any form break downs on it.
On deads there's usually 2 spots where you fail, and one is it never making off the ground and the other transitioning from using the legs to where you use more of your back at the top of the lift. Neither are as unsafe as failing on a squat. Squat fails are the one thing in the gym that make me nervous.
If you have good spotter(s) they can be done safely (as powerlifters fail all the time), but it's hard to find competent spotters and even a well adjusted rack may not be enough.
I know personally my quads fail on a low rep squat and my back/core loses it on high rep squats.
Er. I mean I think its a fine personal choice if you never want to fail on a squat, but I have failed many many MANY times and its really no big deal with a power rack that has the safety pins set at an appropriate height. You just go down, let the safety pins grab your bar, and crawl out from under it.
And one thing I think is really beneficial in doing any movement to failure, at least once in a while and once you have reasonable, is that it teaches you to dig deeper/push harder. I've had many many times when I thought "there's no way I can make another rep" and then when I get into the hole its SO SO SO hard to get out of it, but that rep is the one where I've learned a lot about how to really push through (and then usually the next one IS a failure so now that I'm a good judge of how that feels I rarely go for a rep I actually know I'll fail at, its just that until you've done it a few times you probably haven't gotten as good of a feel for it as you think).
to the OP: you got plenty of good advice here so I don't have much to add. I honestly do not recall if there was an AMRAP component mentioned in SL 5x5 - if there is, its as an aside or somewhere on his blog, but its certainly not a required part of the program, and actually I don't think I'd recommend you do it for squats, at least, because you're already squatting 3x a week ANd adding weight every time and that's pretty rough for most people. OR if you do, do it one day a week, not all three (on the last set only, like sara and SS said).0 -
^^yep - I squat to failure every now and again, and agree with your sentiments.0
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I was going to ask about this myself the other day. Right now I pretty much do 5X5 of everything, and a friend said I should just lift until exhaustion.0
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I was going to ask about this myself the other day. Right now I pretty much do 5X5 of everything, and a friend said I should just lift until exhaustion.
It's one way to do things but pushing yourself to true failure over and over can be counterproductive long term. I know if I were to do it I wouldn't be able to hit the gym as often as I do, and my total time under tension would be less.0 -
This guy does not provide any sources but I think he is correct
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq22RlMpKn8
Example:
Failure Method VS Non-failure Method
225*8=1800..................225*6=1350
225*5=1125..................225*6=1350
225*3=675................... 225*6=1350
Total 3600..............................4050
If the guy in the video is correct then the non failure method recruited just as many muscle fibers for more volume and more total weight lifted.
Ooops meant to post the video I got the math from for more info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaRn0D8_aDo 0 -
The stronglifts program is designed to work exactly as is described without additional reps to challenge yourself to failure. You perform 5 sets of 5 reps and if completed successfully you "challenge" yourself by adding more weight in the next session. In this case 5 lbs except for the deadlift which is 10 lbs.
I finished session 13 this morning and squatted 105 lbs., benched 70 lbs. and barbell row was 95 lbs. This is after starting with the bar alone in the 1st session which weighs 45 lbs. Eventually you will add enough weight to fail. You might complete 4 sets of 5 and only 3-4 in the 5th set or any other combination. At this point you simply try again in the next session without adding weight.
If you are unable to complete 5 sets of 5 reps after 3 different sessions then 20% is deducted from the weight and you begin to work your way back up again. So, if you fail at 200 lbs. you start over at 160 lbs. There are also more advanced programs that call for dropping back to 3x5 and 1x5 but the OP is probably a long way away from that point as am I.0
This discussion has been closed.