Elite Totals.
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Gallowmere1984
Posts: 6,626 Member
Is it just me, or does this seem pretty...weak to qualify as elite?
http://www.criticalbench.com/powerlifting-elite-classifications.htm
Using myself as an example: I can easily cut from 207 to 198 to make that weight class, assuming I were going for a meet weigh in. As such, my current pure raw (no straps on dead so my 495 there drops to 405) total of 1045 puts me just shy of class 2, and I've only been training for five and a half months. Now, if one were to divide the remaining amount evenly (not likely to work that way, but this is for the sake of argument) I would need to add 142 pounds to each of my lifts to total elite. That would put me at 537 squat, 547 dead, and 387 bench. Obviously, those would need to be rounded up a hair to account for possible plate sizes, but I think you see my point.
Do those numbers look 'tough'? Yes, yes they do. Do they look 'elite'? Not hardly. To me, these look like the kind of numbers that anyone should be able to hit within five years of dedicated training. Is that really all it takes to be considered "among the elite"?
http://www.criticalbench.com/powerlifting-elite-classifications.htm
Using myself as an example: I can easily cut from 207 to 198 to make that weight class, assuming I were going for a meet weigh in. As such, my current pure raw (no straps on dead so my 495 there drops to 405) total of 1045 puts me just shy of class 2, and I've only been training for five and a half months. Now, if one were to divide the remaining amount evenly (not likely to work that way, but this is for the sake of argument) I would need to add 142 pounds to each of my lifts to total elite. That would put me at 537 squat, 547 dead, and 387 bench. Obviously, those would need to be rounded up a hair to account for possible plate sizes, but I think you see my point.
Do those numbers look 'tough'? Yes, yes they do. Do they look 'elite'? Not hardly. To me, these look like the kind of numbers that anyone should be able to hit within five years of dedicated training. Is that really all it takes to be considered "among the elite"?
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I'm in about the same boat. In the weight class I competed in, I was just shy of class 3. I only had 3-4 lbs to cut to make the next lower weight class and for that one I would have been pretty darn close to class 2. As of my competition I'd been squatting and DLing for 4 months and benching for 3.
It sounds like fast gains and like we shouldn't be that high up in the classes already, but you have to remember where we're at is a heck of a lot stronger than what the general public can lift... lol... so I'm happy to be a few classes above that
Also remember, there is a difference between "elite" and "pro"... you have to have much higher totals to actually be a pro powerlifter. 0 -
Maybe it's semantics, but I would really think that 'professional' should come before 'elite'. The latter term, in almost any other sport or profession, is reserved for the absolute best of the best at something, As an example, every quarterback in the NFL qualifies as professional. However, the term elite would generally bring to mind people like Favre, Manning, Young, Marino, etc.0
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I'd be inclined to agree with the categories - at least for raw. Usually class II will get you a good standing in most state-level competitions, class I will almost guarantee you a state record, and Master/Elite is national level. This is what I've gathered based on 100% Raw's lifting records.
And as for time training, I wouldn't put much into that. It all depends on how much effort you put into it, how much you brought to the table when you started, and a little bit of natural talent helps as well.
For example, I've been throwing for the highland games for 6 years, but the training for that was just throwing, no powerlifting. I also did martial arts for 5+ years before that. I started powerlifting training last May, and I've seen my numbers jump tremendously - I'm now just shy of class I (40 lbs to go), and haven't even started competing yet.0 -
I think we posted this before, check older topics.
This one is as of 2006 AAU
RAW MEN'S POWERLIFTING CLASSIFICATION CHART
Wt. Class 114 123 132 148 165 181 198 220 242 275 275+
ELITE 904 984 1059 1185 1298 1396 1471 1551 1607 1654 1728
MASTER 850 904 974 1087 1190 1279 1354 1476 1518 1518 1594
CLASS I 750 810 871 979 1068 1148 1209 1279 1321 1359 1420
CLASS II 661 712 768 858 937 1012 1068 1125 1162 1199 1251
CLASS III 571 623 670 754 820 881 932 984 1017 1045 1087
CLASS IV 502 543 586 656 712 768 810 853 890 914 951
Theres also age groups set up the same way.0 -
Wow... I've been lifting for 6 weeks and I'm class 4 for my weight... I have to agree, these numbers are a bit low considering I haven't maxed on any of the 3. The weights I added up were all done for 3 reps on our heavy week.0
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Wow... I've been lifting for 6 weeks and I'm class 4 for my weight... I have to agree, these numbers are a bit low considering I haven't maxed on any of the 3. The weights I added up were all done for 3 reps on our heavy week.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that due to the 'noob gains' phase, our strength appears to skyrocket at first, but then very quickly slows down. Using myself as an example, I hit 365 on dead within just a couple of months of training. Fast forward another two and a half months, and I have only increased that by another 40 pounds, without the assistance of straps. Obviously, since I can pull 495 pretty easily with them, my grip strength is the weakest link in that lift, and any lift, when done completely raw, is only going to be as good as the aspect of it you are worst at.
That being said, it feels to me that almost anyone without some physical problems could hit these numbers within a relatively short period of time, assuming that they set a training regimen dedicated to increasing the 'Big 3'. If even 25% of the population has the capability to do something, doesn't that kind of kill the soul of the word 'elite'?0 -
Wow... I've been lifting for 6 weeks and I'm class 4 for my weight... I have to agree, these numbers are a bit low considering I haven't maxed on any of the 3. The weights I added up were all done for 3 reps on our heavy week.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that due to the 'noob gains' phase, our strength appears to skyrocket at first, but then very quickly slows down. Using myself as an example, I hit 365 on dead within just a couple of months of training. Fast forward another two and a half months, and I have only increased that by another 40 pounds, without the assistance of straps. Obviously, since I can pull 495 pretty easily with them, my grip strength is the weakest link in that lift, and any lift, when done completely raw, is only going to be as good as the aspect of it you are worst at.
That being said, it feels to me that almost anyone without some physical problems could hit these numbers within a relatively short period of time, assuming that they set a training regimen dedicated to increasing the 'Big 3'. If even 25% of the population has the capability to do something, doesn't that kind of kill the soul of the word 'elite'?
I agree completely... the fact that anyone with a little knowledge and dedication can get anywhere on that graph, and those with a little more can get to elite status ruins it. Kind of like how kids sports now everyone gets a trophy, it takes some of the fun out of winning0 -
IDK they're just qualifying totals, perhaps Elite is not the best word but I don't see the huge issue. I also think you're underestimating your own natural talent, not everyone your weight would walk into a gym and get those numbers so quickly. I've trained with men and women who start out pretty heavy and others who have to work sooooo much harder for gains... They're usually the girls that run rings around me when it comes to other things though.0
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Hmm, those numbers are definitely lower than what I'm used to. I generally go by http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html
Which I think is the same as
http://www.strstd.com/
By the chart on your link, I would hit elite fairly soon. By the strength standards from my links, I may not ever hit elite in my lifetime.
I'm not sure why the numbers don't align.0 -
Another way is to go by Wilks totalThe categories in your Standards are organized by Wilks total in the following way:
Un-trained......120 +/- 3
Novice...........199 +/- 4
Intermediate...237 +/- 5
Advanced.......326 +/- 3
Elite...............413 +/- 4
http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=30150&page=2
I'm just barely at the edge of Advanced. The leap from Advanced to Elite is fairly tremendous.0 -
IDK they're just qualifying totals, perhaps Elite is not the best word but I don't see the huge issue. I also think you're underestimating your own natural talent, not everyone your weight would walk into a gym and get those numbers so quickly. I've trained with men and women who start out pretty heavy and others who have to work sooooo much harder for gains... They're usually the girls that run rings around me when it comes to other things though.
It's not really a huge issue. This is just one of the random things that I tend to think about when I have nothing better to do. I have been accused of being overly analytical and excessively critical on more than one occasion.
As for my natural talent, you could be correct. I think the biggest thing keeping me from believing that is the pathetic physical condition of the rest of my family. All of them weak as hell, and most of them physically falling apart by the time they hit 30, especially my mother on that last one. It's one of the reasons I get annoyed by seeing the genetics excuse bandied around by so many people.0 -
IDK they're just qualifying totals, perhaps Elite is not the best word but I don't see the huge issue. I also think you're underestimating your own natural talent, not everyone your weight would walk into a gym and get those numbers so quickly. I've trained with men and women who start out pretty heavy and others who have to work sooooo much harder for gains... They're usually the girls that run rings around me when it comes to other things though.
It's not really a huge issue. This is just one of the random things that I tend to think about when I have nothing better to do. I have been accused of being overly analytical and excessively critical on more than one occasion.
As for my natural talent, you could be correct. I think the biggest thing keeping me from believing that is the pathetic physical condition of the rest of my family. All of them weak as hell, and most of them physically falling apart by the time they hit 30, especially my mother on that last one. It's one of the reasons I get annoyed by seeing the genetics excuse bandied around by so many people.
Maybe you're adopted
Genetics aren't an excuse to me, perhaps just a potential? I'm not just talking about just strength, even frame, mobility, leverage can make a difference.0 -
Hmm, those numbers are definitely lower than what I'm used to. I generally go by http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/StrengthStandards.html
Which I think is the same as
http://www.strstd.com/
By the chart on your link, I would hit elite fairly soon. By the strength standards from my links, I may not ever hit elite in my lifetime.
I'm not sure why the numbers don't align.
The link in the OP puts me in Class I (not sure if they have an age category) - I would need to add 140lb total to get to Elite, and that's lifting on a deficit for only 10 months, so that looks off.
On your links taso I am advanced in bench, 30lb shy of Elite, 15lb shy of Elite in deads and 15lb shy in squats - so there is something screwy between men and women's comparatives unless I am reading something wrong.
They both seem light to me.0 -
They are the numbers for that federation only, elite status in other federation will be different, IPF, GBPF or whatever...
Remember that is (or at least meant to be) a raw, natural competition obviously you see higher standards in other federations as they can be geared/not drug tested.
I think you are also slightly underestimating how long it would take to drop 10lbs bodyweight and add 400+ lbs to your total.0 -
They are the numbers for that federation only, elite status in other federation will be different, IPF, GBPF or whatever...
Remember that is (or at least meant to be) a raw, natural competition obviously you see higher standards in other federations as they can be geared/not drug tested.
I think you are also slightly underestimating how long it would take to drop 10lbs bodyweight and add 400+ lbs to your total.
Yeah, I get the raw lifters generally won't be as high as geared lifters, though there are hilarious exceptions. One that comes to mind, is a particular lifter who's raw total is almost high enough to put him in the elite bracket for geared lifters, going by that chart.
Cutting from 207 to 198 could easily be done with just a typical (and fairly mild) dehydration cut in a 24 hour period. I've known more than one person to drop more than 20 pounds on a hard cut, but they are the kind of people who have a pretty good amount of experience in such things.
As for the increases, you may well be right, but given that my progress so far has been done under less than ideal conditions (900+ calorie deficit, very focused training on deadlift above all else, etc.) I'll be curious to see where it lands in another couple of years.0 -
yeah I definitely agree about the weigh in part, however that does mean you would need to gain all that strength without increasing your bodyweight at all over that time to stay in that weight class, not easy.0
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yeah I definitely agree about the weigh in part, however that does mean you would need to gain all that strength without increasing your bodyweight at all over that time to stay in that weight class, not easy.
Most definitely, though as of right now, I am still sitting at a well rounded 17-19% bodyfat, so I think that should give me a good amount of wiggle room, assuming that I keep shearing this useless adipose tissue off of myself. 0 -
They are the numbers for that federation only, elite status in other federation will be different, IPF, GBPF or whatever...
Remember that is (or at least meant to be) a raw, natural competition obviously you see higher standards in other federations as they can be geared/not drug tested.
I think you are also slightly underestimating how long it would take to drop 10lbs bodyweight and add 400+ lbs to your total.
^This is true...0 -
"raw" as a standalone category is quite new, so where some feds have been trying to grow the sport the qualifying totals have generally been lower - there's no appeal running a Nationals for a niche sport if the qualifying totals are prohibitively high and that only a couple of athletes can compete.0
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They're definitely attainable after a few years of training. That's why most guys who have been around have totaled elite.
Powerlifting is a sport of longetivity, if you keep doing it, you'll be able to set some records.0
