Transgender boy not allowed to us girl's bathroom
SemperAnticus1643
Posts: 703 Member
Colorado couple is suing a Colorado school district because the school district is not allowing the boy to use the girl's bathroom. The 6 year old boy is said to be a transgender boy. He dresses like a girl and is known to be a girl by his peers.
How do you feel about this situation?
How do you feel about this situation?
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Replies
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I don't personally feel like a six year old is capable of understanding what that is. My six year old kissed me on the cheek and decided we were married, because that is what people do at weddings. He barely understands basic differences between boys and girls at this point either. Sure, he can look at someone and tell you male or female. I really think that at six years of age, it is the parents pushing an agenda more than anything else.0
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According to the story, the little boy didn't feel comfortable with being a boy at a very young age. At 4, he was diagnosed with a "gender disorder" and the family was supposedly told by the medical professional that the parents should just let him live like a girl.0
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I'd have a tough time with making a diagnosis like that with a 4yr old. I really don't think at that age they should be encouraged to think that there is something 'wrong' with them. Some kids just gravitate more to things that are often stereo-typically associated with one sex or another. Just because he tends to like more 'girl' things does not mean he has some disorder. Our 5yr old son loves hearts and fuzzy animals and pink, orange, cute things and all kids of things that people like to stereotype as 'girl stuff' and I think if we let him dress up like a girl he probably would too. Why would a parent even consider this as an option at that age? OF COURSE the child will agree with whatever he is told and do whatever his parents expect.. all little kids will. Very likely that's part of the problem with this whole thing. On one side you have people who will accept the diagnosis and on the other you will have people like me.
Regardless of your feelings..this isn't something that they can take out on the child. If he has been told to live like a girl then they must allow him to do it. Girls don't exactly walk around the bathroom with their junk hanging out so who cares... He/she would go into a stall and do their business and no one would be the wiser..I don't see this as a problem. Especially if the child is recognized and treated like a girl by all the other kids.. That would be a horribly traumatic thing so I can understand that the parents would be upset enough to sue. How does the school know hes a boy? wouldn't they have registered the child as a girl - if they believed so strongly that he is? If he dresses like a girl, acts like a girl, presumably has a girls name... How would they even know?0 -
How many of you are normally around 4-6 year olds? My 2 boys are 4 and 6. They both have picked very pink, frilly girl stuff at times, and boy stuff at others. I know when I was little, my favorite toys were matchbox cars and I wore overalls almost daily. That didn't make me a boy any more than my kids choices make them girls. My youngest thinks he is spiderman. He wears the costume every chance he gets, and when he can't wear that, he is wearing shirts and socks that are spiderman. He claims he is going to grow up to be spiderman. Does he have a disorder? Unless being that age now is a disorder, that is how young kids think. I do really feel that anyone diagnosing that in someone so young is pushing the envelope a bit. I don't know how a child can be diagnosed with a gender disorder before they are capable of understanding gender. My boys are also quite certain that they are going to grow up to be mommies. I think I could accept a diagnosis like this much better for someone who was even 8 or 9, but at 4? No.0
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I'd have a tough time with making a diagnosis like that with a 4yr old. I really don't think at that age they should be encouraged to think that there is something 'wrong' with them. Some kids just gravitate more to things that are often stereo-typically associated with one sex or another. Just because he tends to like more 'girl' things does not mean he has some disorder. Our 5yr old son loves hearts and fuzzy animals and pink, orange, cute things and all kids of things that people like to stereotype as 'girl stuff' and I think if we let him dress up like a girl he probably would too. Why would a parent even consider this as an option at that age? OF COURSE the child will agree with whatever he is told and do whatever his parents expect.. all little kids will. Very likely that's part of the problem with this whole thing. On one side you have people who will accept the diagnosis and on the other you will have people like me.
Regardless of your feelings..this isn't something that they can take out on the child. If he has been told to live like a girl then they must allow him to do it. Girls don't exactly walk around the bathroom with their junk hanging out so who cares... He/she would go into a stall and do their business and no one would be the wiser..I don't see this as a problem. Especially if the child is recognized and treated like a girl by all the other kids.. That would be a horribly traumatic thing so I can understand that the parents would be upset enough to sue. How does the school know hes a boy? wouldn't they have registered the child as a girl - if they believed so strongly that he is? If he dresses like a girl, acts like a girl, presumably has a girls name... How would they even know?
I believe he registered school as a boy and the faculty and staff know they he is indeed a boy. But the parents asked that they treat him like a girl. The little boy's family has been told that he is allowed to use the nurse's restroom or the handicap restroom but not the girl's restroom. Also isn't there a law that a man or woman walking into the opposite sex's bathroom can get criminal charges filed against them? At 6, none of the children are the wiser as to gender. But what happens to this poor child when they become middle schoolers and high schoolers? Should the transgender boy still be allowed to use the girl's restroom?0 -
I feel that this is much too young as well... if the kid wants to wear dresses and ponytails... fine... I remember seeing something about this one boy who wanted a pair of pink zebra print shoes... why? it wasn't because it was pink nor "girly" but because zebras are his favorite animal... perhaps the kid likes to wear dresses because they are softer... who the heck knows except for that kid. I disagree with diagnoses at this age because rarely does a child that age know how to distinguish between genders let alone know what the differences are. I think that diagnosing and thus labeling kids this age does a huge diservice and limits them later when they are trying to discover who they are. When I was that age, I did everything that boys did... or at least tried to. Why? Because I was surrounded by boys. I was the ONLY girl in my family for YEARS, it's what I knew and understood at the time. Even though I remember having a play sewing machine and barbies and baby dolls and all the other stereotypical girl things to play with.0
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I don't personally feel like a six year old is capable of understanding what that is. My six year old kissed me on the cheek and decided we were married, because that is what people do at weddings. He barely understands basic differences between boys and girls at this point either. Sure, he can look at someone and tell you male or female. I really think that at six years of age, it is the parents pushing an agenda more than anything else.
i agree with this - my daughter wanted to be a dad at one point in first or second grade and my son loved to cook and clean at a very early age. I think the parents have an agenda and the sad thing is the child is caught in the middle0 -
Here's a link to an article about this situation:
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/parents-school-fight-transgender-child-bathroom-article-1.1275726
I don't know exactly where I stand on whether or not the child should be allowed to use the girls' restroom. My problem is attacking the parents and doctors. By accusing them of pushing an agenda, you're accusing them of caring less about the child than politics. I'm sure the parents just want their child to be happy and treated like a normal kid. They have four other children. Do you think they can't tell the difference between their child just liking something girly and actually feeling like a girl? Do you think the doctors can't?
By accusing the doctors of pushing an agenda because you think a child is incapable of understanding gender, you're basically saying you're smarter than these highly trained professionals who've undergone a decade or more of schooling and seen hundreds or thousands of cases. Are you claiming that these disorders don't exist? Are you claiming that it's impossible for a disorder such as this to present itself in a child? Have you ever talked to anyone who is gay or transgender who says they've known their whole life that they were different?
edit: spelling0 -
Votes
Henry H Ng MD, MPH, FAAP, FACP4,160Editor
answered Oct 27, 2010 at 07:48PM
There is some literature about the trajectory of non-gender congruent youth, but most of of the studies have focused on effeminate boys. What is observed is that about 90% of non-gender conforming children (school aged and younger) will not be transgender, However, the majority of non-gender conforming youth in their teen years, will be Transgender.
There are two major schools of thought about the care of non-gender conforming youth. The philosophy espoused by Dr. Ken Zucker seeks to align the child with his or her natal sex and extinguish cross-gender behaviors. For example if a feminine acting boy is playing with dolls, parents are encouraged to remove the dolls one by one and replace them with more masculine associated toys, such as trucks. The thought behind this is that encouraging cross-gender behaviors may be detriment to the eventual gender identification and add to gender confusion. There is some anecdotal reports of children exhibiting hoarding behaviors and continuing cross-gender identification despite reinforcing same-gender behavior and roles. The opposing view, supported by Dr. Norm Spack, a pediatric endocrinologist suggests evaluating each child on a case by case basis and determining how best to support the child's gender expression and developing identity, which may include the early initiaition of hormonal agents (GnRH antagonists) to slow down puberty to allow additional time for gender role development.
To my knowledge, attempts to determine the cause(s) of a person's gender identity have not revealed specific, reproducible etiologies, similar to attempts to understand the causes of homosexuality.0 -
Colorado couple is suing a Colorado school district because the school district is not allowing the boy to use the girl's bathroom. The 6 year old boy is said to be a transgender boy. He dresses like a girl and is known to be a girl by his peers.
How do you feel about this situation?
First off, she is not a boy, she is a girl. Gender is in your brain, sometimes you end up with a birth defect and your body does not match properly, does not make you any less the gender you are.
I hope the parents sue the crap outta that place and win....stupid people should not be running schools.....
By 6 years old, most people are well aware if they are male or female. I know a few people that are transgendered, and they all knew from VERY young that what they saw in the mirror, was not what they really were.0 -
Colorado couple is suing a Colorado school district because the school district is not allowing the boy to use the girl's bathroom. The 6 year old boy is said to be a transgender boy. He dresses like a girl and is known to be a girl by his peers.
How do you feel about this situation?
First off, she is not a boy, she is a girl. Gender is in your brain, sometimes you end up with a birth defect and your body does not match properly, does not make you any less the gender you are.
I hope the parents sue the crap outta that place and win....stupid people should not be running schools.....
By 6 years old, most people are well aware if they are male or female. I know a few people that are transgendered, and they all knew from VERY young that what they saw in the mirror, was not what they really were.
Yahooooooooooooooo! There's the answer sue sue sue, sue everyone!
At 6 years old. Please, they are what the parents tell them they are.0 -
Yahooooooooooooooo! There's the answer sue sue sue, sue everyone!
At 6 years old. Please, they are what the parents tell them they are.
So you think the parents singled out one triplet and decided "he will be a girl?"0 -
I also agree that the parents are clearly the ones with an agenda.
Immediately,the story came to mind of the parents who refused to dislcose the gender of their newly born child to anyone, and insisted that "storm" was going to choose his/her own gender later in life.
Also, the school made sure that this child has a place to use the restroom. What else are they supposed to do? I'd be furious if my daughter had to use the restroom with a little boy present.0 -
I hate this planet so much. I cannot wait to build my castle in space.0
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Any rooms for rent?I hate this planet so much. I cannot wait to build my castle in space.0 -
Any rooms for rent?I hate this planet so much. I cannot wait to build my castle in space.
You can stay for free if you are willing to do the dishes.0 -
transphobia: acceptable, for some reason
I love all the people that are like "omg 6 is too young to know!!"
how old were you when you knew your gender?
and I'm pretty sure doctors trained in that area know the difference between a transgender child and a boy who just likes pink. It's actually very difficult to get a Gender identity disorder diagnosed, so the doctors must be pretty certain
*rolls eyes*
but no, your kid plays with barbies instead of cars therefor you know all there is to know about gender identity in children
also, stop referring to this child as "he", it's clearly been stated that she is a she.
refusing to use the preferred pronouns is transphobic.0 -
Also, the school made sure that this child has a place to use the restroom. What else are they supposed to do? I'd be furious if my daughter had to use the restroom with a little boy present.
That is the whole point, there is NOT a boy present, SHE IS A GIRL0 -
transphobia: acceptable, for some reason
I love all the people that are like "omg 6 is too young to know!!"
how old were you when you knew your gender?
and I'm pretty sure doctors trained in that area know the difference between a transgender child and a boy who just likes pink. It's actually very difficult to get a Gender identity disorder diagnosed, so the doctors must be pretty certain
*rolls eyes*
but no, your kid plays with barbies instead of cars therefor you know all there is to know about gender identity in children
also, stop referring to this child as "he", it's clearly been stated that she is a she.
refusing to use the preferred pronouns is transphobic.
AMEN!0 -
Colorado couple is suing a Colorado school district because the school district is not allowing the boy to use the girl's bathroom. The 6 year old boy is said to be a transgender boy. He dresses like a girl and is known to be a girl by his peers.
How do you feel about this situation?
First off, she is not a boy, she is a girl. Gender is in your brain, sometimes you end up with a birth defect and your body does not match properly, does not make you any less the gender you are.
I hope the parents sue the crap outta that place and win....stupid people should not be running schools.....
By 6 years old, most people are well aware if they are male or female. I know a few people that are transgendered, and they all knew from VERY young that what they saw in the mirror, was not what they really were.
Yahooooooooooooooo! There's the answer sue sue sue, sue everyone!
At 6 years old. Please, they are what the parents tell them they are.
I actually only said sue because I believe that is what the parents are doing....I am Canadian, we actually do not do that as much as our American counterparts....my point really was, whatever action they choose to take, I hope they stick those ignorant *kitten* to the wall!
As per your second line, so if I just started dressing my 6 year old up as the opposite sex, they would change into that? At six, you clearly know if you are a boy or a girl.....0 -
First off, she is not a boy, she is a girl. Gender is in your brain, sometimes you end up with a birth defect and your body does not match properly, does not make you any less the gender you are.
So basically what you are saying is that you are what you feel you are? Gender is not what is between your legs but what is in your mind?0 -
First off, she is not a boy, she is a girl. Gender is in your brain, sometimes you end up with a birth defect and your body does not match properly, does not make you any less the gender you are.
So basically what you are saying is that you are what you feel you are? Gender is not what is between your legs but what is in your mind?
The second part of that statement is correct.....gender is in your mind....and most people are lucky and it matches what is between your legs, but birth defects happen, and that is a pretty terrible one.
Edited to add: If it were me, I would want it fixed on the outside....to match what is in my heart and mind....and nobody can say any different....anyone would want that......0 -
This is just sad all around. Let her pee were she wants.0
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This is just sad all around. Let her pee were she wants.
It's one thing to deal with this child. They can do whatever they want, but what about all the little 6 year old girls that have to pee.
Hey!! Maybe I feel like a man trapped in a woman's body and want to go sit in the sauna naked with the girls at my gym. Would that be okay?
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis, but don't expect the world to get on board with everyone else's issues.0 -
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis,
I hope to God you don't have kids. And if you do, I hope they never ever ever open up to you if they have any gender/sexuality issues.
You sound like the kind of dad that would from march them to a gay rehabilitation centre if they did.0 -
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis,
I hope to God you don't have kids. And if you do, I hope they never ever ever open up to you if they have any gender/sexuality issues.
You sound like the kind of dad that would from march them to a gay rehabilitation centre if they did.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am the Father of 3 girls. Their hapiness is my concern, not their sexual orientation. My brother was gay and died of AIDS in 1994. He and I were very close and I supported him and his choices when it wasn't popular or edgy to be gay. I do not judge people on their sexual orientation, religion, race or whatever. My point is the whole world does not have to alter their lifestyles to support that child's choices. When my daughters were 6 years old, I don't believe that they should have had to share the bathroom with a little boy because he is confused. 6 years old is too young for my daughters to have to be sat down and explained what gender confusion is all about.0 -
Not that it's any of your business, but I am the Father of 3 girls. Their hapiness is my concern, not their sexual orientation. My brother was gay and died of AIDS in 1994. He and I were very close and I supported him and his choices when it wasn't popular or edgy to be gay. I do not judge people on their sexual orientation, religion, race or whatever. My point is the whole world does not have to alter their lifestyles to support that child's choices. When my daughters were 6 years old, I don't believe that they should have had to share the bathroom with a little boy because he is confused. 6 years old is too young for my daughters to have to be sat down and explained what gender confusion is all about..
I think I agree with you. I think it's great that the family, school, child, and her friends are all so accepting. But some people are going to be upset and not all families should be forced to deal with something so uncomfortable to them (at least at this point in our society). Hopefully things will be easier in the future.
I also think the school did the best they could do in this situation. They made reasonable accommodations. They tried to let her use the girls' restroom but they got enough complaints that they thought it was worth changing. They have to keep as many people happy as possible.0 -
It's one thing to deal with this child. They can do whatever they want, but what about all the little 6 year old girls that have to pee.
Hey!! Maybe I feel like a man trapped in a woman's body and want to go sit in the sauna naked with the girls at my gym. Would that be okay?
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis, but don't expect the world to get on board with everyone else's issues.
All the other girls would pee in the girls bathroom, just like this girl. This is not a personal issue, this is a birth defect, I do not understand why so many people are confused about this. If they girl was paralyzed and it made other girls uncomfortable to see her in a wheelchair in the bathroom, would we also try and stop her from using it?
I am totally baffled that people are not grasping this......
And while homosexuality was brought up, that is no more a choice than this is. Let's also not forget that sexual orientation, and gender identity are two different things, and one has nothing to do with the other......But some people are going to be upset and not all families should be forced to deal with something so uncomfortable to them (at least at this point in our society). Hopefully things will be easier in the future.
The only way to make things easier in the future is to keep moving forward on issues like this.....I honestly do not even understand why someone else's gender identity makes anyone uncomfortable.0 -
I am totally baffled that people are not grasping this......
Just because someone disagrees, it doesn't mean they don't get it.The only way to make things easier in the future is to keep moving forward on issues like this.....I honestly do not even understand why someone else's gender identity makes anyone uncomfortable.
You're right, we need to keep moving forward. But we don't even have all of this stuff figured out for adults yet (see TheRoadDog's sauna comment), much less children. It may seem silly to some, but it's a legitimate concern to others.
It's great that you're so liberated, but do you really not understand why it would make some people uncomfortable? Seriously? I guess I'll have to break it down for you. People have differing opinions on what is/isn't acceptable to discuss with a child, especially when it comes to anything connected to sexuality. I would imagine this is new territory for most of the parents. They don't necessarily know this child or her situation. There are religious concerns for some.
Look, we both agree that she was born that way and people shouldn't get so hung up on it, but don't feign ignorance. It doesn't help. Try to see where the other side is coming from.0 -
I am totally baffled that people are not grasping this......
Just because someone disagrees, it doesn't mean they don't get it.The only way to make things easier in the future is to keep moving forward on issues like this.....I honestly do not even understand why someone else's gender identity makes anyone uncomfortable.
You're right, we need to keep moving forward. But we don't even have all of this stuff figured out for adults yet (see TheRoadDog's sauna comment), much less children. It may seem silly to some, but it's a legitimate concern to others.
It's great that you're so liberated, but do you really not understand why it would make some people uncomfortable? Seriously? I guess I'll have to break it down for you. People have differing opinions on what is/isn't acceptable to discuss with a child, especially when it comes to anything connected to sexuality. I would imagine this is new territory for most of the parents. They don't necessarily know this child or her situation. There are religious concerns for some.
Look, we both agree that she was born that way and people shouldn't get so hung up on it, but don't feign ignorance. It doesn't help. Try to see where the other side is coming from.
This has nothing to do with sexuality though....what gender you are, has nothing to do with sex.....
When I first saw this story on CNN, I wondered why everyone even seemed to know what was between her legs....doesn't really seem like anyone's business in the first place.....there really should not be anything to tell the kids....she is a girl, period.
And if someone is disagreeing that she is a girl, then they don't get it......if you know she is a girl, then what is the problem?0
