Transgender boy not allowed to us girl's bathroom
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This has nothing to do with sexuality though....what gender you are, has nothing to do with sex.....
When I first saw this story on CNN, I wondered why everyone even seemed to know what was between her legs....doesn't really seem like anyone's business in the first place.....there really should not be anything to tell the kids....she is a girl, period.
And if someone is disagreeing that she is a girl, then they don't get it......if you know she is a girl, then what is the problem?
In your mind it doesn't, in others' it does. To people who don't think about this kind of thing on a regular basis, sexuality is tied to what's between your legs. Those people need to be educated.
My problem (more of a question, really) is, is it in the best interest of the child to throw the spotlight on her like this?0 -
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis,
I hope to God you don't have kids. And if you do, I hope they never ever ever open up to you if they have any gender/sexuality issues.
You sound like the kind of dad that would from march them to a gay rehabilitation centre if they did.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am the Father of 3 girls. Their hapiness is my concern, not their sexual orientation. My brother was gay and died of AIDS in 1994. He and I were very close and I supported him and his choices when it wasn't popular or edgy to be gay. I do not judge people on their sexual orientation, religion, race or whatever. My point is the whole world does not have to alter their lifestyles to support that child's choices. When my daughters were 6 years old, I don't believe that they should have had to share the bathroom with a little boy because he is confused. 6 years old is too young for my daughters to have to be sat down and explained what gender confusion is all about.
Completely agree! I do not want to have to explain to my 7 year old daughter why little Susie doesn't have the same body parts as she does in the case that she accidently opens the door on this male child.0 -
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis,
I hope to God you don't have kids. And if you do, I hope they never ever ever open up to you if they have any gender/sexuality issues.
You sound like the kind of dad that would from march them to a gay rehabilitation centre if they did.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am the Father of 3 girls. Their hapiness is my concern, not their sexual orientation. My brother was gay and died of AIDS in 1994. He and I were very close and I supported him and his choices when it wasn't popular or edgy to be gay. I do not judge people on their sexual orientation, religion, race or whatever. My point is the whole world does not have to alter their lifestyles to support that child's choices. When my daughters were 6 years old, I don't believe that they should have had to share the bathroom with a little boy because he is confused. 6 years old is too young for my daughters to have to be sat down and explained what gender confusion is all about.
Completely agree! I do not want to have to explain to my 7 year old daughter why little Susie doesn't have the same body parts as she does in the case that she accidently opens the door on this male child.
The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....0 -
The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....
This transgendered girl has little boy genetalia. The parents of every little girl in that school should not have to explain that to their children.0 -
The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....
This transgendered girl has little boy genetalia. The parents of every little girl in that school should not have to explain that to their children.
But why is it anyone's business what is between her legs? Why would you discuss ANYONES genitalia with your children?0 -
The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....
This transgendered girl has little boy genetalia. The parents of every little girl in that school should not have to explain that to their children.
But why is it anyone's business what is between her legs? Why would you discuss ANYONES genitalia with your children?
Never mind. You're right. I withdraw all my comments.0 -
Deal with these personal issues at home or with clergy or in analysis,
I hope to God you don't have kids. And if you do, I hope they never ever ever open up to you if they have any gender/sexuality issues.
You sound like the kind of dad that would from march them to a gay rehabilitation centre if they did.
Not that it's any of your business, but I am the Father of 3 girls. Their hapiness is my concern, not their sexual orientation. My brother was gay and died of AIDS in 1994. He and I were very close and I supported him and his choices when it wasn't popular or edgy to be gay. I do not judge people on their sexual orientation, religion, race or whatever. My point is the whole world does not have to alter their lifestyles to support that child's choices. When my daughters were 6 years old, I don't believe that they should have had to share the bathroom with a little boy because he is confused. 6 years old is too young for my daughters to have to be sat down and explained what gender confusion is all about.
Completely agree! I do not want to have to explain to my 7 year old daughter why little Susie doesn't have the same body parts as she does in the case that she accidently opens the door on this male child.
The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....
Actually the child is biologically male. You can jump on your soap box and make this about genitalia all you want but it doesn't change the simple fact that the child has an X and a Y chromosome.
A four year old child can barely wipe their *kitten*. I really doubt they can differentiate between what gender they feel they should be.0 -
The reason that it is a big deal is because the child (regardless of what they and others identify themself as) still has a penis and most likely will until after puberty and can have gender reassignment surgery.0
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Actually the child is biologically male. You can jump on your soap box and make this about genitalia all you want but it doesn't change the simple fact that the child has an X and a Y chromosome.
A four year old child can barely wipe their *kitten*. I really doubt they can differentiate between what gender they feel they should be.
Do you think the doctors can tell?0 -
Have none of you that think the school is correct ever known a transgendered person? They know who they are from VERY young that their body is not the right gender.....it is a birth defect where the mind does not match the body.....fixing the mind does not work, they tried that for decades, and all it did was cause suicides and the like. Therefore, fixing the body to match the mind is the course of treatment that proves most effective. The thing is, that cannot start until the child is near puberty. Until then, all you can do is treat the child according to their actual gender. Singling this girl out is only hurting her. The school should have never made a big deal out of this.
If you have a six year old boy, and you try and convince them they are a girl, you will not succeed. For some reason, with transgendered children, people that are uneducated about the matter, seem to think they are confused about their gender. If you have a boy that knows he is a boy, or a girl that know she is a girl, you accept that. So why not, when it is known that transgenderism is a known birth defect, do you think that child does not know what they are talking about.
Have you ever heard of David Reimer? As a baby, a DR botched his circumcision, so they surgically made him into a girl. Of course, he was not one, and he knew his whole life that something was wrong. His whole life was messed up because they tried to make him live as something he was not. He knew he was not a girl, but convinced they could 'change' him, nobody listened. Although his case was started by a mistake a DR made, it is the same idea. Just because the body says one thing, does not always mean the mind matches.
Most children know well before this age, if they are male or female. The people fighting against this are just not educated in this topic. If you have ever personally witnessed the struggles of a transgendered person you loved, you would feel differently.0 -
[The child is not male.... :noway:
Even the title is misleading on this thread....she is a trangendered girl, NOT boy.....
So wait a minute...you mean to tell me that all the years of schooling that I have had... and what all doctors and scientists will say...that if someone has a penis, but mentally think they're a girl..... then it's a girl? Then transgendered men should be allowed to enter womens weight lifting, track and field, ect...and the world will be balanced again. Because according to your logic, gender is in the mind. Right? My boys play with the dolls their friends sisters bring at home. When they play Mario Kart, they like to play as Daisy and Peach and call themselves the Sister Team. Does that make em girls? They don't seem to think so. Niether do I.0 -
Actually the child is biologically male. You can jump on your soap box and make this about genitalia all you want but it doesn't change the simple fact that the child has an X and a Y chromosome.
A four year old child can barely wipe their *kitten*. I really doubt they can differentiate between what gender they feel they should be.
Do you think the doctors can tell?
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?0 -
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?
Sorry, I'm referring to the larger picture, with doctors in general. Do you think that any psychologist or physician that says these disorders exist and can present in a child are wrong?0 -
Sorry, I'm referring to the larger picture, with doctors in general. Do you think that any psychologist or physician that says these disorders exist and can present in a child are wrong?
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?
Seeing as they are just as human as you or I, I don't see why any particular (or group of) doctor being wrong is outside of the realm of possibilities... Particularly, since Doctors disagree on diagnoses and treatment all the time. It isn't hard t go around until you find a doctor that gives you the answers you want... and I'm not using "you" in the personal sense and I'm not saying that this is what this particular family did... But I see it all the time, when a family is anti-vax and their peditrician insists upon it, or when a doctor won't give a patient the medicine they (the patient) thinks they need because they saw it on a commercial... Doctors are not infallible, they also are not without biases themselves.0 -
Sorry, I'm referring to the larger picture, with doctors in general. Do you think that any psychologist or physician that says these disorders exist and can present in a child are wrong?
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?
Seeing as they are just as human as you or I, I don't see why any particular (or group of) doctor being wrong is outside of the realm of possibilities... Particularly, since Doctors disagree on diagnoses and treatment all the time. It isn't hard t go around until you find a doctor that gives you the answers you want... and I'm not using "you" in the personal sense and I'm not saying that this is what this particular family did... But I see it all the time, when a family is anti-vax and their peditrician insists upon it, or when a doctor won't give a patient the medicine they (the patient) thinks they need because they saw it on a commercial... Doctors are not infallible, they also are not without biases themselves.
I understand that doctors are people and make mistakes just like anybody else. The question is about the existence of these disorders. If some of the people here (like you and lour441) believe that these disorders exist at all.0 -
Sorry, I'm referring to the larger picture, with doctors in general. Do you think that any psychologist or physician that says these disorders exist and can present in a child are wrong?
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?
Seeing as they are just as human as you or I, I don't see why any particular (or group of) doctor being wrong is outside of the realm of possibilities... Particularly, since Doctors disagree on diagnoses and treatment all the time. It isn't hard t go around until you find a doctor that gives you the answers you want... and I'm not using "you" in the personal sense and I'm not saying that this is what this particular family did... But I see it all the time, when a family is anti-vax and their peditrician insists upon it, or when a doctor won't give a patient the medicine they (the patient) thinks they need because they saw it on a commercial... Doctors are not infallible, they also are not without biases themselves.
I understand that doctors are people and make mistakes just like anybody else. The question is about the existence of these disorders. If some of the people here (like you and lour441) believe that these disorders exist at all.
You are making an assumption about what I actually think. Good job there. I just think it is too early to be able to tell these kinds of things before puberty.... but then I don't know anyone that has much recollection of their childhood outside of what their parents tell them. Not that they don't exist, because I don't know whether they do or not as I am not a mental health specialist.
ETA: I also think that while children may understand some concepts of gender, I don't think they grasp the concepts enough to understand sexuality. I remember talking about "puberty" and "sex" in completely general terms at the age of 8 through the school... I didn't understand what any of that meant... Hell, even when me and my best friend would recreate soap operas with our barbies and make them have sex with each other, we didn't know what that meant... we were recreating what we had seen and heard from TV and people older than us. Again, not saying disorders don't exist (because I haven't done enough reading on the subject to make an informed opinion such as that)... just I don't think they are prevalent as we are lead to believe at such a young age before our hormones are surging and trying to balance out more.0 -
You are making an assumption about what I actually think. Good job there. I just think it is too early to be able to tell these kinds of things before puberty.... but then I don't know anyone that has much recollection of their childhood outside of what their parents tell them. Not that they don't exist, because I don't know whether they do or not as I am not a mental health specialist.
There was no assumption. It was a question. I'm trying to understand where you are coming from. I'm not a mental health specialist either, but I think it's more reasonable to defer to their judgment (that of the field in general) that these disorders do exist. Gender disorders are included in the DSM. I don't think it's outrageous to think that such a disorder could present itself in a child, especially if a person's propensity toward a gender group is more genetic than we think.
Edit:I don't think they grasp the concepts enough to understand sexuality.
I agree that they don't grasp sexuality, but this isn't about sex at all. It's just about a person's identity.0 -
Sorry, I'm referring to the larger picture, with doctors in general. Do you think that any psychologist or physician that says these disorders exist and can present in a child are wrong?
Which doctors? The ones not mentioned in the article? Or the doctors briefly mentioned in the video as "the doctors"? There is no information about what doctors if any the child may have seen. No information about what type of doctors they may have been. No information on their credentials. I don't even recall there being a diagnosis other then the doctors saying the child should live as they want to live for their well being.
I am actually shocked you think doctors are the end all... It took 5 different doctors to diagnose my wife's fractured ankle and I am supposed to trust they are right 100% of the time?
Seeing as they are just as human as you or I, I don't see why any particular (or group of) doctor being wrong is outside of the realm of possibilities... Particularly, since Doctors disagree on diagnoses and treatment all the time. It isn't hard t go around until you find a doctor that gives you the answers you want... and I'm not using "you" in the personal sense and I'm not saying that this is what this particular family did... But I see it all the time, when a family is anti-vax and their peditrician insists upon it, or when a doctor won't give a patient the medicine they (the patient) thinks they need because they saw it on a commercial... Doctors are not infallible, they also are not without biases themselves.
I understand that doctors are people and make mistakes just like anybody else. The question is about the existence of these disorders. If some of the people here (like you and lour441) believe that these disorders exist at all.
I believe the disorders exist. I just don't believe it is possible to diagnose a 4 year old with one. If a person can scientifically be proven to have this disorder then do it.
Is it at all possible that the child is just a creation of the environment he is growing up in??? He has 3 older sisters who I am sure he looks up to. Perhaps he is emulating them and it has been taken too far? Only time will tell.0 -
I apologize, I read your last post wrong. But to be honest, I am an observational person (or at least I like to think myself as such)... so I base my opinions (and they are likely to change as many have over the past few years... an example would be my opinion on Gay rights) on what I see and read with a dash of personal experience... just like everyone else. Or at least most people do anyway.
I just believe that sometimes people become what they are told they are when they are told it enough. Who's to say this kid just isn't trying to mimic his sisters? But now for the rest of this kids life will be told "he" is a girl... What happens IF (<~~ key word here) "he" goes through puberty and decides "he" no longer wants to be a girl? Will the parents, friends and family say then "Ok! You're a boy"... OR will they just keep pushing and pushing that "he" is a girl? People who are constantly told they are something are going to believe it if told enough times. But seriously, how does a three year old start out with thoughts of "I don't want to grow up with a hairy chest"? I know myself personally didn't even start thinking about the possibility of boobs until I was at the youngest 9. Maybe it's because I haven't experienced it myself... outside of REALLY REALLY wanting to be able to pee standing up and outside... I can't fathom it... I just don't see how babies can have such grown up thoughts in their head without it being planted in there some how, some way.... just like 3 year olds obsessed with their weight and being skinny.
BTW: I am using "he" as a pronoun since biologically speak the child is still considered a boy and there is not a good neutral singular pronoun.0 -
I don't think they grasp the concepts enough to understand sexuality.
I agree that they don't grasp sexuality, but this isn't about sex at all. It's just about a person's identity.
I realize this isn't about sexuality, but it is the same arguments that are given when discussing homosexuality so I am essentually lumping them all in the same argument basis. While I am all for letting kids express themselves how they would like, as long as it isn't harmful to other people or themselves, I just don't think a truly accurate diagnoses can be made until after puberty.0 -
Is it at all possible that the child is just a creation of the environment he is growing up in??? He has 3 older sisters who I am sure he looks up to. Perhaps he is emulating them and it has been taken too far? Only time will tell.
I would say that it is possible. I would also say a genetic component is possible, or a combination of the two. Agreed, only time will tell.What happens IF (<~~ key word here) "he" goes through puberty and decides "he" no longer wants to be a girl? Will the parents, friends and family say then "Ok! You're a boy"... OR will they just keep pushing and pushing that "he" is a girl?
I would hope that they would support him/her if that was she wanted. I think the child being happy is more important than trying to force an identity on her. That applies to the parents and society.But seriously, how does a three year old start out with thoughts of "I don't want to grow up with a hairy chest"?
Is that a specific example from this case? I didn't hear anything about her saying that. I'm under the impression that the affected individual just knows in their mind who they are.0 -
Is it at all possible that the child is just a creation of the environment he is growing up in??? He has 3 older sisters who I am sure he looks up to. Perhaps he is emulating them and it has been taken too far? Only time will tell.
I would say that it is possible. I would also say a genetic component is possible, or a combination of the two. Agreed, only time will tell.What happens IF (<~~ key word here) "he" goes through puberty and decides "he" no longer wants to be a girl? Will the parents, friends and family say then "Ok! You're a boy"... OR will they just keep pushing and pushing that "he" is a girl?
I would hope that they would support him/her if that was she wanted. I think the child being happy is more important than trying to force an identity on her. That applies to the parents and society.But seriously, how does a three year old start out with thoughts of "I don't want to grow up with a hairy chest"?
Is that a specific example from this case? I didn't hear anything about her saying that. I'm under the impression that the affected individual just knows in their mind who they are.
In a HuffPo article about it the parents explained that as soon as their child could talk would say things such as this.0 -
very young,, but it is what it is,,,, girls bathroom, i say.0
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A number of people have mentioned the potential for 'confusion' in the school peers of the child in question. It seems to me from the information provided that the classmates know this child as a little girl - surely more confusion, not less, will arise in the child's classmates when they observe that this little girl is not allowed to use the girl's bathroom, like every other girl in the class.
Children are anything but stupid or unobservant, and I would expect this manner of proceeding to elicit far more uncomfortable questions from her peers than simply allowing the child to use the bathroom appropriate to her publicly-stated gender. Given the set-up in girls bathrooms, in comparison to boys', I can't foresee any significant issues of accidental 'exposure', and if "someone accidentally opening the door" is a major concern, a conversation about knocking on closed doors might be in order!0 -
I have known quite a number of gender dysphoric people, and yes they all seem to know quite young but if the child is a girl then WHY did the parents register her as a boy? This is why the issue is so much of a problem now.. If the child was registered as a girl no one would have even questioned her going into the bathroom - 6yr olds are more than capable of closing doors. Besides if she's a girl she wouldn't be peeing standing up (even if she has the parts) she would be sitting on the seat like other girls..the thought of standing to pee would be horrible to her! So... someone opens the door..they would see a girl sitting to pee. Not like anyone would be looking THAT closely at her while she's sat there.
So the question is WHY would the parents not register her as a girl if they were supportive of this? That would be the smart thing to do. Now they are stuck.0 -
I have known quite a number of gender dysphoric people, and yes they all seem to know quite young but if the child is a girl then WHY did the parents register her as a boy? This is why the issue is so much of a problem now.. If the child was registered as a girl no one would have even questioned her going into the bathroom - 6yr olds are more than capable of closing doors. Besides if she's a girl she wouldn't be peeing standing up (even if she has the parts) she would be sitting on the seat like other girls..the thought of standing to pee would be horrible to her! So... someone opens the door..they would see a girl sitting to pee. Not like anyone would be looking THAT closely at her while she's sat there.
So the question is WHY would the parents not register her as a girl if they were supportive of this? That would be the smart thing to do. Now they are stuck.
According to this article, the parents didn't allow her to start identifying as a girl at school until halfway through kindergarten. So it was too late for that. Before they allowed it, they tried to convince her to be a boy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/coy-mathis-colorado-trans_n_2776472.html0 -
According to this article, the parents didn't allow her to start identifying as a girl at school until halfway through kindergarten. So it was too late for that. Before they allowed it, they tried to convince her to be a boy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/coy-mathis-colorado-trans_n_2776472.html
Then I guess the legal system is the only recourse unless they switch schools and register her as a girl. Since they are home schooling anyway it's a possible solution - or just keep home schooling. Could they not change the registration now? or won't they allow that? Just register her as a 'new student'0 -
According to this article, the parents didn't allow her to start identifying as a girl at school until halfway through kindergarten. So it was too late for that. Before they allowed it, they tried to convince her to be a boy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/coy-mathis-colorado-trans_n_2776472.html
Then I guess the legal system is the only recourse unless they switch schools and register her as a girl. Since they are home schooling anyway it's a possible solution - or just keep home schooling. Could they not change the registration now? or won't they allow that? Just register her as a 'new student'
That's an interesting way of thinking about it. At this point everyone knows. The next school would likely deal with the same complaints as the first one. So I guess the legal system is the only choice besides homeschooling.0 -
Just something amusing to add to the discussion.
Today I was waiting for my wife who was in the Ladies' room, and another woman went in then came right out and told her friend it was too packed and asked if there was a men's room. Then she found one and used it. If a man had done that he'd have gotten punched!0 -
Just something amusing to add to the discussion.
Today I was waiting for my wife who was in the Ladies' room, and another woman went in then came right out and told her friend it was too packed and asked if there was a men's room. Then she found one and used it. If a man had done that he'd have gotten punched!
Hmm... there is a point there. Women just take way too damn long in the bathroom though... it's ridiculous... I don't go into the men's bathrooms because I used to clean them... so I know what is in there... and hell no! So I just get tacky and start complaining about women taking too damn long in the bathroom... do your business and get out!0
