Plateau Woes

patrickmathews

I've made major progress since getting started last August. I started at 270 and 33% body fat, now I'm down to 215 and 22.5ish% body fat. I've been at 212 - 220 for almost 3 months. I've been sticking to 1500 calories a day, exercising 2 - 4 times a week usually burning 800 - 2000 calories per workout (I wear a heart rate monitor so I think this is pretty accurate). I've been careful but certainly have areas I could improve on (I sometimes eat late - like right before bed).

I don't mind being 215 that much but I really want to lose some body fat. I'm between 21% and 24% depending on which device I use. My scale at home is always 23 - 24, while the hand held device at the gym is consistently 21 a few hours later. I'd like to get to 15% body fat. I don't much care if I weigh 195 or 215 as long as I'm at about 15% body fat.

I'm open to suggestions!

I plan on changing a few things:

I'm going to up my calorie intake to net 2000 per day. I think the very low calorie diet may be making it hard to gain muscle mass. I've fallen in to the "skinny/fat" conundrum. Based on my math, I've actually started losing muscle so I think it's time to up
my daily calorie intake.

My current daily intake goals:

Protien 150g
Fat 67g
Carbs 150g

I am changing my exercise routine so that I spend much less time doing cardio and much more time doing strength training. Up till now, about 2/3 of my workout (as measured by calories burned) was elliptical or swimming laps for 30 - 45 minutes with a target heart rate of 140. I'm going to switch to 20 minutes of stair master or treadmill with a target heart rate of 160.

I tend to burn about 700 - 1000 calories per workout and try to make 3 workouts per week.

I have unlocked my diary with a code - 12345.

Any other suggestions?

Sarauk2sf

Hi!

First of all, you are correct. You are not eating enough and should up your calories. Those macros look reasonable at first glance.

Could you answer the questions from here in this thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/910257-the-new-and-improved-asking-questions-about-your-intake


Thanks

patrickmathews

Here are my responses - sorry for leaving them out.

Things you should try to provide for specific intake questions:

Provide your stats (height/weight/age/bodyfat% if you know it/etc) 6'2" 215 lbs, 45 years old, male, 23.5% body fat (as measured by calipers today - it meshes with the scale I use at home).

What's your current gross intake of calories, on average? I was at 1500 until 5 days ago. I then went to 2000.

What's your current average intake of protein, carbs, and fats, in grams? (GRAMS, not percent!)

My current daily intake goals:

Protien 150g
Fat 67g
Carbs 150g

I do a pretty good job of staying at or below 2000 (net) but I don't always get enough protein and get more carbs than goal. I do a good job of keeping fat intake down.

Do you use a food scale and measure everything? - at home yes, I eat out probably 5 times a week (mostly lunch) but I am pretty good about estimating my intake and I eat subway a lot so the nutrition info is pretty accurate.

Do you track all of your intake, daily? (Everything?) YES! I have since August of last year - Everything! There may have been a few days where I could have been somewhat inaccurate (went to a party and had some finger foods) but those are few and far between.

Do you take cheat days or days off? No - I track everything. I don't intentionally take "days off" but I'm not perfect by any strech. There have been a few days where I went way over goal for one reason or another.

How much weight have you lost so far and over what time period? From August (really late July) until December, I went from 270 to 215. Since December, I have not lost weight and my body fat % has fluctuated between 21 and 24.5. My weight varies (I weigh myself most every morning) between 211 and 220.

Describe your activity (exercise and non exercise) and did you change that activity withing the last couple of months? I sit at a desk most every day. My daily activity (when I'm not exercising) has probably decreased slightly in the last 2 or 3 months.

How long have you been stalled and if it is not a complete stall please be very specific as to how much you have lost over the stalled period. I have been at the same weight / body fat% for almost 3 months.

Also, please ensure that you have your diary open. - It is open with a passcode - 12345

SideSteel

Tagging to track this. Will discuss with Sara and one of us will get back to you.

SideSteel

We'll get to this one soon.

I'd like you to read this in the meantime as some leisure reading. This is something we should consider with you given the amount of weight you have lost and your current stats/situation.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-full-diet-break.html

BikerGirlElaine

Bump to follow thread

SideSteel

Patrick: Shoot me a PM when you've had a chance to read that link.

patrickmathews

PM sent.

psuLemon

I won't comment on calories, but generally what I suggest for breaking a plateau is a diet complete diet break. I would suggest setting your account to maintain or with with Sara/Sidesteel to estimate your maintenance calories and not workout for 2 weeks. Once you come back, start with a smaller calorie deficit and change your workout routine.

SideSteel

I won't comment on calories, but generally what I suggest for breaking a plateau is a diet complete diet break. I would suggest setting your account to maintain or with with Sara/Sidesteel to estimate your maintenance calories and not workout for 2 weeks. Once you come back, start with a smaller calorie deficit and change your workout routine.

IMO, whether or not to diet break is very context dependent. My experience so far in dealing with people is that the majority of them are just simply eating too many calories, but at the same time there certainly are cases with people who have been at a prolonged deficit and who have lost a significant amount of weight and are now stuck-- where diet breaks can absolutely be beneficial.

But I think context still needs to be applied.

SideSteel

EDIT: Just a note -- I'm using "I" in this at times, but readers here should know that in cases like this that aren't straightforward, Sara and I discuss these at length and work on these together. But I'm too lazy to correct my grammar below.


Hello again Patrick,

Thanks for all the PM's back and forth.

Given all of your information you've provided here and via PM, I think it's likely that you'll benefit in some capacity from a diet break of sorts.

I know we chatted about this via PM and if you decide to go this route, I would be very interested if you do get your hormone levels checked as you had mentioned.

We would recommend for starters, taking 1 week at around 2300kcals gross intake.

Your macros should sit roughly as follows:
2300kcals
165p
80f
230c


All of the above are in grams.


We would then like you to step it up to about 2600 the following week for 1 more week.
You'd be around the following intake:

2600kcals
165p
80f
305c

EDIT: As you follow up via PM I will also recommend a final intake once this break is up.


I know we discussed this via PM, but the theory that we're going with on this one is that you may get some benefit from this given your situation. There's a good possibility that you've got some hormonal downregulation that is reducing your energy expenditure. Considering the duration at which you've been dieting and the amount of weight you've lost and your current intake vs activity, and your stats I think this is the way to go vs a reduction in intake or an increase in output (and while I do think everyone could tighten up their logging, I'm under the impression via our PM's that you're probably not TOO far off the mark in that department).

I'm going to leave you with this as some leisure reading, because I believe it's beneficial even for meticulous people.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/872212-you-re-probably-eating-more-than-you-think


Shoot me a PM if you have any questions, and also as a follow up in 1 week or sooner if you want to.

As an aside: It seems to me that diet breaks tend to land people in two categories mentally. Either it's an excuse to overeat or they're scared to gain a couple of lbs. Neither one of these scenarios are ideal but I digress.


Lastly and finally: If this idea just seems like a horse-*kitten* plan and you don't want to do it, I'd still be willing to recommend a potential reduced intake/increased output scenario to attempt to induce weight loss. In this case though, I think the former option is the one to try first.

JeffseekingV

Would the heart rate monitor account for doing the exact same excercises/weights/reps/cardio and that his calorie expenditures isn't what it was before? ie... if 30 min on the treadmill = 300 calories at 270lbs, at 215 lbs it's more likek 225 calories.

Just a throw out suggestion

Sarauk2sf

Would the heart rate monitor account for doing the exact same excercises/weights/reps/cardio and that his calorie expenditures isn't what it was before? ie... if 30 min on the treadmill = 300 calories at 270lbs, at 215 lbs it's more likek 225 calories.

Just a throw out suggestion

I am not sure of the question here.

patrickmathews

Would the heart rate monitor account for doing the exact same excercises/weights/reps/cardio and that his calorie expenditures isn't what it was before? ie... if 30 min on the treadmill = 300 calories at 270lbs, at 215 lbs it's more likek 225 calories.

Just a throw out suggestion

I think what your asking is if I have adjusted my heart rate monitor to reflect a lower weight. If I did not and was keeping the higher weight setting, it would give a higher count of calories burned than it should.

The heart rate monitor is configured with weight, gender, age, and I think height. I don't have it in front of me so I'm going from memory. I do modify the weight parameter - it is now at 215. I don't modify it every day, but when I'm off by more than 5 or 7 pounds I go ahead and adjust it.

JeffseekingV

Nice. Seems you are keeping a really good record of your stuff. I hope you figure it out

patrickmathews

Thanks for the reply and the plan. We exchanged a lot of info in PMs and I think you have a good idea of my history.

As for the labs - I looked into it and it's a lot more expensive than I thought it would be so I am going to have to skip that. For some reason, leptin and cortisol labs seem to cost around $500 put together - to get them done before and after the diet break (as much as it would make for really great info) is just too much to spend.

I don't see any reason not to try a diet break as you mentioned above. I'll start it tomorrow and stick with 2300kcals/day it for 7 days, then go to 2600kcals/day for an additional 7 days. The only question I have is how important it is to get all the protein you have prescribed. 165 grams of protein every day is going to be tough unless I start using supplements. I'm open to suggestions as to how to get that much protein every day conventionally.

SideSteel

Thanks for the reply and the plan. We exchanged a lot of info in PMs and I think you have a good idea of my history.

As for the labs - I looked into it and it's a lot more expensive than I thought it would be so I am going to have to skip that. For some reason, leptin and cortisol labs seem to cost around $500 put together - to get them done before and after the diet break (as much as it would make for really great info) is just too much to spend.

I don't see any reason not to try a diet break as you mentioned above. I'll start it tomorrow and stick with 2300kcals/day it for 7 days, then go to 2600kcals/day for an additional 7 days. The only question I have is how important it is to get all the protein you have prescribed. 165 grams of protein every day is going to be tough unless I start using supplements. I'm open to suggestions as to how to get that much protein every day conventionally.

Getting in adequate protein will help maintain LBM as you diet. What I've suggested is 1g/lb LBM approximately, which is typicaly a sufficient amount for the majority of contexts. Obese and untrained individuals can get by with less, and lean athletes who are getting REALLY lean, would probably benefit from going above this mark by a bit.

The best advice I could give you would be to "get close" to that target. If you miss it by 10-20g your biceps are not going to fall off, but at the same time if you're only getting in 30g/day you are probably not going to maintain LBM.

Consider also, as you diet down to leaner and leaner levels, protein will become more important.

patrickmathews

I have reset my goals and we'll see what happens.

I wish I could put in the actual numbers you mentioned but the goals page only let's us pick percentages in 5% increments. Does anyone know if there is some way of entering the numbers manually?

SideSteel

I have reset my goals and we'll see what happens.

I wish I could put in the actual numbers you mentioned but the goals page only let's us pick percentages in 5% increments. Does anyone know if there is some way of entering the numbers manually?

Unfortunately you're only able to go in 5% increments. Just get as close as you can.

patrickmathews

One other question or really just a clarification:

Should I eat my exercise calories during the next three weeks? Yesterday, I exercised 750 calories - should I have eaten 2300 or 3050 calories?

SideSteel

2300.

The numbers I've suggested are all gross intake. You should target this on both rest and exercise days.