Is this how science works?

thedreamhazer

So, I want to run this by some people before I adjust my routine. I am preparing to participate in a powerlifting competition in December. As such, gaining strength is pretty high up on my list of to-dos right now. My lower body numbers are already respectable for an Open -- I'm sure to make a solid showing in the ranks. But my upper body has always been lagging, and the gap is just getting wider.

Here's my question: For cardio, I do boxing 2-3 days a week. I love it, it's a highlight of my week, and I do not want to give it up. However, is it possible that doing cardio that involves so much upper body is messing with my ability to gain upper body strength? I always try to do my upper body lifts 2 days after my boxing so it doesn't interfere, but I'm starting to wonder if it even matters.

Is boxing fatiguing my upper body and preventing me from strength gains in bench press/rows? Is that how science works?

Sarauk2sf

Ooop - just noticed this so bumping to the top

ilovedeadlifts

It's quite possible that you're not recovering from the boxing in time to bench.

A few questions:
1. Is your weight okay for the meet?
2. Do you plan on competing in the future as well or just once?
3. What does your programming look like?

I can see not wanting to quit boxing, but if you really want to do well in this meet you might want to dial it back, even if it's just for 8 weeks to get ready for this.

I just saw that you said the meet isn't until december. Most people's meet prep is from 12-18 weeks so I wouldn't worry too much at this point. Eat well and get on a solid program and you should make progress. Then, as I said earlier, just dial the boxing back once you're close to the meet.

vjohn04

My own experience:
I box and lift, and I have to limit my boxing to once per week otherwise my weight training sessions suffer--- significantly. Although you are getting cardio, with boxing it is a form of resistance training -- albeit small(er). The other poster is right about needing the recovery time.

ArroganceInStep

I'm with ILD. Depending on how you're doing consider dialing boxing back a couple notches for meet prep, but that wouldn't be until 2 months out.

If your weight isn't an issue for the meet, you may be able to get away with upping food intake and sleep and not have to stop boxing. If you really want to be successful at this meet though, you may need to buckle down for a bit to focus on it.

How's your bench form looking?

SideSteel

Sort of echoing what the above posters are saying, I would look at some combination of sleep, food intake (potentially increasing it if permissible based on weight class needs/etc), and reducing boxing.

All of those factors likely play a role into it.

CoderGal

Anyone have a reason for strength suffering with cardio? I know cardio doesn't make you stronger and makes a larger calorie deficit but if you are eating that back why would it suffer given the days in between to repair? If it is because they are not repairing from the cardio, couldn't they just eat more like the above poster mentioned instead of cutting down on something that makes them happy?

SideSteel

Anyone have a reason for strength suffering with cardio? I know cardio doesn't make you stronger and makes a larger calorie deficit but if you are eating that back why would it suffer given the days in between to repair? If it is because they are not repairing from the cardio, couldn't they just eat more like the above poster mentioned instead of cutting down on something that makes them happy?

It would make sense that one would simply be tired, regardless of food intake.

Lyle touches on it here but this may not directly answer the "why":
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html

ArroganceInStep

Also, even though I think people looking to do this for squat are just copping out and not doing the full program, I've heard really good things about it for bench: http://www.seriouspowerlifting.com/2362/articles/smolov-jr

And try to post a form video if you can.

heybales

Anyone have a reason for strength suffering with cardio? I know cardio doesn't make you stronger and makes a larger calorie deficit but if you are eating that back why would it suffer given the days in between to repair? If it is because they are not repairing from the cardio, couldn't they just eat more like the above poster mentioned instead of cutting down on something that makes them happy?

Just plain tired muscle lifting to failure is different than a heavy load and lifting to failure.

Many would never feel the difference if they just added lifting to their regimen and did it with tired muscles.
Not until you do a test of lifting to failure (or almost) with fresh muscles do you feel the difference. And the weight increase usually.

Depends on the time and intensity of cardio too, and time until the lifting is done. Active Recovery HR zone (poorly name fat-burning zone) is usually so low key, not a strain on the muscles, just blood flow, doesn't impact if done the day before. I can get into lower Aerobic zone before I notice it will impact next day lifting. But either way, if you do it too long, still going to wear you out.
And then if you don't sleep well that night, have additional stress, have to shovel snow, ect.
And an intense almost anaerobic cardio session or super long aerobic session for me can impact lifting 2 days later.

Extra food isn't the only thing recovering muscles need, just plain old rest usually.

I'd suggest if lifting is focus, remove the cardio until you know what good strong lifts feel like, and then experiment with adding cardio back until you notice it impacting the lifting. And realize that if it was just starting to impact current weight being lifting, how is it impacting increasing the weight?

Sarauk2sf

As it looks like there has been a decent amount of input on the thread, I am locking for now as part of a process that we are using to track open threads. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/914180-thread-locking-and-intake-follow-ups


Please PM either myself or SideSteelif you have any further questions, and we will unlock it so you can post.

Sarauk2sf

Unlocked at OPs request

thedreamhazer

So I just got back to this thread. Sorry for the delay, things are ridiculous around me right now. To address some questions:

A few questions:
1. Is your weight okay for the meet?
2. Do you plan on competing in the future as well or just once?
3. What does your programming look like?

1- Eh. It's not where I want to be, because I want to be on the upper end of whatever weight class I'm going for. Right now, I'm carrying more fat-weight than usual which is pushing me into the very low end of a higher weight class. Since I'm so far out, I am focusing on trying to cut some fat now so I can be solid in the weight class I want (and not just soft in a higher weight class).
2 - Still unsure about this.
3 - Currently I am training using Wendler's 5/3/1 BBB program. I am actually consulting with a PT now, though, to develop a more focused and appropriate program.

If your weight isn't an issue for the meet, you may be able to get away with upping food intake and sleep and not have to stop boxing. If you really want to be successful at this meet though, you may need to buckle down for a bit to focus on it.

How's your bench form looking?

My bench form is good .... now. I basically discovered that I'd been doing it wrong for almost the entire time I've been lifting. I'm hoping that the form correction will make a big difference and really help me push past the plateau.

For now, I'm thinking what I'm going to do is just cut out one day of boxing per week and do some other cardio -- running, spinning, something more leg-based.

Thank you all for your help!

Chief_Rocka

Anyone have a reason for strength suffering with cardio? I know cardio doesn't make you stronger and makes a larger calorie deficit but if you are eating that back why would it suffer given the days in between to repair? If it is because they are not repairing from the cardio, couldn't they just eat more like the above poster mentioned instead of cutting down on something that makes them happy?

The metabolic pathway responsible for adaptation to cardio exercise cab interfere with the one responsible for adaptation to strength training.

UsedToBeHusky

Bump to read later.

ilovedeadlifts

5/3/1 isn't a bad program for powerlifting. The BBB assistance put some size/strength on me, but as the meet nears you'll probably want to drop the assistance volume a bit. BBB can beat you up.

Working with a PT is a good idea, IF your PT is an elite level powerlifter. Otherwise, if powerlifting is your primary goal, you need to find someone who competes and understands the sport to do your programming.
A lot of elite/world record lifters will do your programming for probably less than a PT will charge.
Four that I would reccommend (if you need help getting in touch with them I'd be glad to help):
Mike Tuscherer
Brandon Lilly
Wade Johnson
Clint Darden

ArroganceInStep

5/3/1 isn't a bad program for powerlifting. The BBB assistance put some size/strength on me, but as the meet nears you'll probably want to drop the assistance volume a bit. BBB can beat you up.

Working with a PT is a good idea, IF your PT is an elite level powerlifter. Otherwise, if powerlifting is your primary goal, you need to find someone who competes and understands the sport to do your programming.
A lot of elite/world record lifters will do your programming for probably less than a PT will charge.
Four that I would reccommend (if you need help getting in touch with them I'd be glad to help):
Mike Tuscherer
Brandon Lilly
Wade Johnson
Clint Darden

This can't be emphasized enough. I'm fairly strong, but getting a strength coach who competes is the best thing I've ever done.

thedreamhazer

Hmm, good to know. My PT is not a powerlifter, but he does have some powerlifting background. That said, if it's probably not going to be wroth my time/money, I'm happy to train on my own and maybe just look into online coaching.

I planned to drop the assistance volume closer to the date, but definitely feel like it's necessary for upper body work at the moment. Plus, I've been doing box squats for the accesory squat, which I think has been helping a lot.

Sarauk2sf

Locking as I think (hope) you have got some decent input and to help us track open/active threads better. If you want to add anything, please PM either myself or SideSteel, including the link, and we will reopen.