SERIOUSLY???? TOPIC: Fat Girls Are A Men's Best Friend?
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I think there is a common psychological thing that keeps heavier women from losing weight... the weight makes us safe both to and from the men we're attracted to
Exactly. I find the OP very unremarkable, in fact. Some, though probably not all, of her male friends who "don't go there" probably would find her attractive if she were thinner. Some might never be physically-attracted to her, regardless of her shape and size, and some may be genuinely attracted to her now, but too concerned with appearances/social expectation, as she observes, to be comfortable having a romantic relationship with her.
I also don't find the ego/self-blame contradiction as odd as many of you seem to - self-esteem is not one isolated block - self esteem is related to a whole variety of things, and an individual can have very high self-esteem in some areas of their life, but very low self-esteem in another. Two contradictory areas of self-esteem need not necessarily be affected by each other.0 -
I saw this article about a year ago and coincidentally someone posted it again yesterday. Sort of related to this topic.Hello you all. This is an article copied from the link below in which a woman talks about the social stigma of losing 100 lbs. I have read this multiple times. I'm interested in hearing what some of you think about it.
"I come from a small-ish town in Oklahoma where we’ve never met a vegetable we couldn’t fry and the only thing more super-sized than our portions are the huge church complexes that alternate with fast-food restaurants along our roads.
So it maybe isn’t such a big surprise that by the time I graduated from high school, I weighed 260 pounds. My prom dress was a size 24, and my mother had to help me zip it up, a five-minute ordeal during which we grunted and cursed at one another. My aunt had to custom-make my graduation gown, a huge white tent in which I resembled the Stay-Puft marshmallow man. Still, I left for college in New York City feeling relatively confident. After all, I wasn’t just fat. I was also stylish, managing to alter and combine pieces in a way where they overcame their origins as shapeless sacks designed by people with the gall to decorate plus-size garments with ice-cream cones and slices of pizza. And I was hilarious, *****y and sexually brash, defense mechanisms mastered by fat women and gay men everywhere.
I wasn’t immune — hurtful things would happen on occasion. Groups of rowdy teenagers sometimes yelled insults at me from car windows. I gave my phone number to a nice guy, only to find out when he called that he had a fetish for overweight women, shamelessly telling me that he likes “something to grab onto” during sex. Or someone would approach me out of nowhere on the street and tell me not to worry about how I look; someday — when I’m ready — I’ll lose the weight. And of course, I compared myself endlessly to the impossibly thin women in magazines, just like the average-weight women I knew, to whom I also, by the way, compared myself.
Despite these blows to your self-esteem, for the most part nobody close to you really tells you to your face what they think about your weight. As a result, a fat girl’s worldview is missing vital pieces of information. When you don’t get invited on your friends’ man-catching all-girl outings, or when men who enjoy sleeping with you over and over again fail to want to date you, you can’t quite comprehend that all this is really caused by the way you look.
But then, the summer before my junior year of college, something changed. I made a promise to myself to diet just for one summer, and for the first time I saw results. On a low-carb plan, I started melting away, shrinking inwards. I began to grow collarbones and hipbones, sprouting bony, sharp spots all over my body. By the end of the summer, I was 50 pounds lighter, and within a year I was down to 160 pounds on my 5’11″ frame, a solid size 10.
It’s been six years now that I’ve maintained that weight loss, and it is far and away the best thing I’ve ever done for myself. Not because I’m healthier and will probably live longer, but because I now reap the benefits of a society set up to punish fat people for the unforgivable crime of eating too much.
I hear the fat jokes right out loud now, instead of just a whispering breeze brushing past my ear. Men who used to let the door swing shut in my face now hold it open for me politely and look me up and down as I step past. My own boyfriend, a man I began dating a few months after reaching my goal weight, sees the picture on my driver’s license and admits he probably wouldn’t have gone out with me when I looked like that. I appreciate his honesty. It’s better than the good-intentioned people who gush upon seeing the new me, “You’re so pretty now!” before stammeringly adding, “Not that you weren’t, uh, pretty before.”
Finding yourself suddenly thin after a lifetime of being fat is a bit like stepping into that “Saturday Night Live” sketch where Eddie Murphy goes undercover as a white guy and discovers that white people act completely differently when there are no black people around. With no outward sign of my former body type, I became a renegade spy for Team F.A.T.
Of course, I didn’t discover that thin people drink cocktails and dance when fat people get off the bus. But when I lost weight, I was rewarded with membership in a club I never knew existed, where the benefits included better treatment, greater professional success and, above all, a new status as qualified participant in the social world including romantic relationships.
Of course, I lost weight to reap these benefits. But it doesn’t stop me from being angry that I had to lose weight to reap these benefits. Of those who are nice to me now, who would have been rude to me before? Which ones made the cruel jokes? Who can be trusted?
As the years pass, it is easy to forget. I have even, on a few occasions, found myself looking at an overweight person with faint disdain, forgetting those years I struggled with the very same issue. I hope never to gain back the weight I lost. But I have seen another side of people that I cannot forget. And with any luck, I never will.
I hope I always stay fat on the inside."0 -
(Quoting the article)
Well, I am surprised as I thought it wasn't news to anyone that "fit" people are generally more desirable physically.Despite these blows to your self-esteem, for the most part nobody close to you really tells you to your face what they think about your weight. As a result, a fat girl’s worldview is missing vital pieces of information.
I remember that when someone posted an article from a blog about the fact that, from the point of view of a man looking at women, beauty is controllable and about 80% of it is weight some people got upset.
But it is simply true that our society, on average, is attracted physically to fit rather than fat.
(Do people still think otherwise?)
I think there are a few flaws in this line of reasoning (for example: a lot of men will pretty much always enjoy sleeping with a girl - any girl - and fail to date her if they can).When you don’t get invited on your friends’ man-catching all-girl outings, or when men who enjoy sleeping with you over and over again fail to want to date you, you can’t quite comprehend that all this is really caused by the way you look.
If all it takes is only a few months of your life to reap immense benefits, it should be a no brainer. Nothing comes for free. You learn that when you're about 5 years old.But then, the summer before my junior year of college, something changed. I made a promise to myself to diet just for one summer, and for the first time I saw results.
By the end of the summer, I was 50 pounds lighter, and within a year I was down to 160 pounds on my 5’11″ frame, a solid size 10.
Of course, I lost weight to reap these benefits. But it doesn’t stop me from being angry that I had to lose weight to reap these benefits.
I understand the point is that you shouldn't have to lose the weight to reap those benefits... But it is what it is. People are attracted to what they are attracted to. She is probably dating a "thin-ish" man herself. So that's that.
I think you stay fat on the inside... Ex fat people are best, they've been there, done that.I hope I always stay fat on the inside.0 -
when I lost weight, I was rewarded with membership in a club I never knew existed, where the benefits included better treatment, greater professional success and, above all, a new status as qualified participant in the social world including romantic relationships.
Of course, I lost weight to reap these benefits. But it doesn’t stop me from being angry that I had to lose weight to reap these benefits. Of those who are nice to me now, who would have been rude to me before? Which ones made the cruel jokes? Who can be trusted?
So true!!
I agree with most of what this person wrote. When you are heavy all your life and then lose it as an adult, it's amazing the difference you see in how people treat you. I almost wish I didn't know about this "club" and these "benefits" because this very thing is the reason I freak out so much when my weight climbs too high (as you all observed when I came back from vacation heavy).
I posted here in SP a section of my upcoming book that talks about this: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/937117-was-fat-now-average-thin-book-excerpt-long-post?page=10 -
i find it true.0
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I don't really agree with the stuff about being treated better because you are thinner. I do acknowledge that there is a certain bias in favor of more attractive people, in terms of what people expect from you and in how they will behave toward you as a result of those expectations. But I think, for the most part, you send signals to people about how you expect to be treated, and that's how they treat you.
Roughly 3 years ago, I was more than 100 lbs heavier than I am now. I was shy and self-conscious and generally tried my best to blend into my surroundings, as though that would distract people from how fat I was. I am convinced now that that is what affected how I was treated, more so than my weight. Since losing the weight, I dress, walk, and speak in a way that gets me noticed, and it's not really conscious on my part. I am simply a million times more confident, more self-aware, and happier now than I was before. I know I can handle anything that comes my way, so I don't shy away from opportunities at work or avoid having to interact with certain people out of fear that they might reject me in some way.
Women who have lost a ton of weight tend to say things like "This guy wants to date me, and he didn't like me before because I was fat, but I'm still the same person I was then." And I just don't think it's true. Maybe I'm the exception, but I don't believe it's possible to go through that kind of transformation, which is every bit as psychological as it is physical, and still be the same person.0 -
Women who have lost a ton of weight tend to say things like "This guy wants to date me, and he didn't like me before because I was fat, but I'm still the same person I was then." And I just don't think it's true. Maybe I'm the exception, but I don't believe it's possible to go through that kind of transformation, which is every bit as psychological as it is physical, and still be the same person.
if a guy didnt want to date me before because i was fat, he's being honest and I appreciate it. I put a lot of hard work into my body and wouldnt date someone fat who didnt care enough to exercise or who wasnt strong enough to handle their feelings without always eating them. taking control of your life and deciding to get strong makes you a mentally physically emotionally superior giant.
Coming out the other side of 100+ pounds, I dont want a weak person.0 -
I don't really agree with the stuff about being treated better because you are thinner. I do acknowledge that there is a certain bias in favor of more attractive people, in terms of what people expect from you and in how they will behave toward you as a result of those expectations. But I think, for the most part, you send signals to people about how you expect to be treated, and that's how they treat you.
Roughly 3 years ago, I was more than 100 lbs heavier than I am now. I was shy and self-conscious and generally tried my best to blend into my surroundings, as though that would distract people from how fat I was. I am convinced now that that is what affected how I was treated, more so than my weight. Since losing the weight, I dress, walk, and speak in a way that gets me noticed, and it's not really conscious on my part. I am simply a million times more confident, more self-aware, and happier now than I was before. I know I can handle anything that comes my way, so I don't shy away from opportunities at work or avoid having to interact with certain people out of fear that they might reject me in some way.
Women who have lost a ton of weight tend to say things like "This guy wants to date me, and he didn't like me before because I was fat, but I'm still the same person I was then." And I just don't think it's true. Maybe I'm the exception, but I don't believe it's possible to go through that kind of transformation, which is every bit as psychological as it is physical, and still be the same person.
I agree with with a lot of what you say but I also think there is a certain feedback. As you lose weight, you become more confident. Some of this is that others treat you better which lets you know you are okay and more valuable than you originally considered yourself. I also think that as you gain confidence, it allows you to raise your expectations about how you allow others to treat you. I don't know which comes first or if these things occur simultaneously.0 -
I haven't noticed a difference in how people treat me, I've noticed a difference in how I feel around people (which in turn affects how they treat me, but I got all the same signals before, I just rebuffed them). I'm more patient and open since I've lost weight. When I'm bigger I care less about others.
Dunno what that means.0 -
"This guy wants to date me, and he didn't like me before because I was fat, but I'm still the same person I was then." And I just don't think it's true. Maybe I'm the exception, but I don't believe it's possible to go through that kind of transformation, which is every bit as psychological as it is physical, and still be the same person.
I disagree, but then maybe it depends on the amount of weight. I didn't lose 102 lbs like you did. Only 60lbs. I know several people who lost 30-40 lbs to get into the military, were still the same personality as before, but noticed people treated them differently. One friend of mine even asked the guy who'd been her best friend for years why he was suddenly interested. He said it was bc she was finally hot and he would no longer be embarrassed to be seen dating her. She refused to date him, and he ended up marrying a girl who was thin but has now put on significant weight.
Before I got pregnant, I lost 40lbs and did not change in personality. I starved myself to make a goal for a special program I wanted at the time. 40lbs was all it took for me to “be allowed” to see how cruelly “average sized” people think of and treat overweight people behind their backs (what I wrote about in the book excerpt post). This is why I hated to gain weight during pregnancy. I am the same person now as I was at 209 lbs coming home from the hospital with my little peanut. 60lbs lost didn’t change who I was inside, but it changed how people treated me.
The 15lbs I gained while on vacation radically changed how people treated me. Of course, I'm in the military, and they're less tolerant of weight than in other cultures.
But it really irritates me when people who have lost the weight excuse this phenomenon as if it’s ok because you didn’t like yourself anyway at that weight. Some overweight people love themselves at any weight. Thin people who hate themselves and try to hide in the background or have eating disorders the opposite way (ana and such) don’t get that kind of retribution. So it’s not just attitude that causes people to be so mean.
Edit: Kit I'm glad you're more patient and open. It seems like so many people, especially on MFP are the opposite! They are so harsh and mean to people who are starting out where they were just a year or two ago. It’s like the guys who lose weight and then all the sudden they’re “too good” for a mate who isn’t as far along in their health goals as they are.0 -
I also do not believe it is possible to go through such a transformation and still be the same person. If you did, then well, Im going to secretly judge you and assume you either took shortcuts, got WLS, or somehow otherwise cheated, because getting stronger physically, imho, changes your strength in mental and emotional ways as well.0
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Also, since losing weight, I can shopliftm (but i dont cause it feels weird :-/), walk through speeding traffic, get caught with open alcoholic beverages and be told that I can finish it after receiving my 'warning', get free stuff every time i go to a deli for breakfast, dont have to pay bus fare 75% of the time, free rides from cops, anyone with a cigarette will bum me one, and I can probably, literally get away with murder. Yes, I am well aware that it is because Im more attractive after having lost over 100#s. I know people are nicer to me because Im more attractive. Im not deluded about it and I dont take advantage of it.0
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True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.0
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final answer? the very best fit chicks used to be fat chicks BWHAHAHAHAHAHA WINNING0
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Hmm...she just sounds like an highly egotistical person. She'll have even more difficulty fitting her head through the door if she loses a substantial amount of weight.0
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Hmm...she just sounds like an highly egotistical person. She'll have even more difficulty fitting her head through the door if she loses a substantial amount of weight.
No.. I am willing to bet you a large amount of money she is just the opposite. This isn't true ego..this is compensation for low self esteem.0 -
Hmm...she just sounds like an highly egotistical person. She'll have even more difficulty fitting her head through the door if she loses a substantial amount of weight.
No.. I am willing to bet you a large amount of money she is just the opposite. This isn't true ego..this is compensation for low self esteem.
You're probably right. I still think she's nuts though. Reminds me of a novel I read called 'A Kind of Intimacy.'0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
Why do they have to? I know plenty of horrid, bitter overweight women (they love to latch on to gay men). I think it is more that big women feel the need to hide it more than fit/beautiful women who are more likely to get away with it.0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
Why do they have to?
to get sex0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
Why do they have to? I know plenty of horrid, bitter overweight women (they love to latch on to gay men). I think it is more that big women feel the need to hide it more than fit/beautiful women who are more likely to get away with it.
Not as in morally obligated to , they only have to if they want close to the same benefits as the skinny ones.0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
Why do they have to?
to get sex
Maybe it's just me, but sometimes even that doesn't happen because of weight (see my earlier post in this thread)0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
I would tend to agree with this. In college I knew this really fit and petite girl and she had the worst personality. All the guys I crushed on it were friends with thought she was hot and fell all over her for a chance with her...it was actually quite sickening. None of the girls understood why it was this way.0 -
True for my experience it seems fat girls tend to have better developed personalities and more depth to them because they have to whereas with skinny girls they need not worry because there's always some guy showering them with gifts just for the smallest hope of banging her.
Why do they have to?
to get sex
Maybe it's just me, but sometimes even that doesn't happen because of weight (see my earlier post in this thread)
I got laid a lot at my peak weight. The only reason I'm not now is because my focus has changed from partying to school and animals. :laugh:0 -
I think the fat vs. skinny comparisons are a bit of a generalization. I don't think overweight women are nice just to get sex or male companionship. Or that skinny women are cruel because they can be, since their behavior matters less when attracting males (at least short term).
All of this implies a basic human nature that is superficial and morally suspect. That our baseline behavior is bad. There are lots of benefits to being a decent human being, and this applies to all body types.
--P0 -
since losing weight, I can shopliftm (but i dont cause it feels weird :-/), walk through speeding traffic, get caught with open alcoholic beverages and be told that I can finish it after receiving my 'warning', get free stuff every time i go to a deli for breakfast, dont have to pay bus fare 75% of the time, free rides from cops, anyone with a cigarette will bum me one, and I can probably, literally get away with murder. Yes, I am well aware that it is because Im more attractive after having lost over 100#s. I know people are nicer to me because Im more attractive. Im not deluded about it and I dont take advantage of it.
Oh. I get it. So your earlier post about how it's not really true that thin people get better treatment doesn't really mean thin people get better treatment. It's that you don't take advantage of it in your life.
But you could, if you wanted to. And that's the point.0 -
I think the fat vs. skinny comparisons are a bit of a generalization. I don't think overweight women are nice just to get sex or male companionship. Or that skinny women are cruel because they can be, since their behavior matters less when attracting males (at least short term).
All of this implies a basic human nature that is superficial and morally suspect. That our baseline behavior is bad. There are lots of benefits to being a decent human being, and this applies to all body types.
--P
I agreed with you up until the assertion "That our baseline behavior is bad" but that's mostly because on a philosophical level I question what you imply by "bad".
Otherwise QFT0 -
since losing weight, I can shoplift (but i dont cause it feels weird :-/), walk through speeding traffic, get caught with open alcoholic beverages and be told that I can finish it after receiving my 'warning', get free stuff every time i go to a deli for breakfast, dont have to pay bus fare 75% of the time, free rides from cops, anyone with a cigarette will bum me one, and I can probably, literally get away with murder. Yes, I am well aware that it is because Im more attractive after having lost over 100#s. I know people are nicer to me because Im more attractive. Im not deluded about it and I dont take advantage of it.
Oh. I get it. So your earlier post about how it's not really true that thin people get better treatment doesn't really mean thin people get better treatment. It's that you don't take advantage of it in your life.
But you could, if you wanted to. And that's the point.
Lol that wasn't me, Janie. I am a firm believer that thinner people get treated better and that's what Ive been saying. And that when we are overweight, many of us try to compensate for being less attractive by being funnier, nicer, better in bed, less nagging, more compliant, so they make up for what they are lacking physically.
Then, when those same people lose weight - two things can happen when they suddenly have all that attention on them from people who nothing about their personalities (just their new appearance or level of attractiveness)
#1 They can fill themselves with righteous indignation at the shallow mindset of mankind, rejecting those that were not attracted to the different shape they used to be, reprimanding instead of graciously accepting compliments, being wary of any kind words or approving looks and swallowing it bitterly that they are worth more now, choosing to internalize their self-criticism and project it into the motivations of others and becoming wholly consumed with the effects of their changes instead of supporting them, improving on them and pushing themselves outward, farther, to more positive benefits and effects, results that they do hold in high esteem. Choosing to focus on something as negative as who is an isnt attracted to your completely different look (that you went and got, by the way) and how that affects their behavior towards you, is NOT a productive way to dedicate your mental energy. Nor will it help you get more awesome or more fit.
#2 They can be reassured that their hard work is causing noticeable changes and one of the benefits, even if it is not on your goal list, is that more pleasant interactions and people are directed at you. Confidence attracts confidence. Productivity and ambition attract productive and ambitious people that would not have wanted your company when you were not changing your life. But you developed your personality, your sense of humor, your bedroom skillz, your spidey senses when dating, your finances, your world travely-ness, your sense of self and all these other great qualities while you were overweight and now... omg youre the whole package. What a world of opportunity is opening up for you now. The only way to justify this is by continuing on your path to awesomeness and see what else lies ahead.0 -
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Ok I havent really wanted to get into this subject but I'm bored so I'll take a stab at it....
Do skinny people get treated better =YES , its human nature to gravite to the more attractive individual and skinny people tend to be better looking (not all of them)......
However I know several very large women who rock their weight...They are the exception not the rule..They dress well for their size and they are confident.
When I first lost weight I did recieve more attention but part of it is my personality came out more as I felt better about myself...Even though I have gained weight back I haven't lost my confidence and it hasnt slowed me down with men much....However I want to be healthy and fit for me...Not guys....Now when my cousin was here I saw what I would look like when I reached my goal weight (with bigger boobs lol) and yes she got a lot of attention but shes a character lol she radiates energy and fun ... My sister who is even thinner and in my opinion pretty gets ignored alot because she puts no effort into it... She goes out looking like a 12 yr old and expects men to fall at her feet. It doens't happen0 -
I got laid a lot at my peak weight. The only reason I'm not now is because my focus has changed from partying to school and animals. :laugh:
I got laid a lot more at my peak weight because I felt the need to validate my existence that was so negatively portrayed in the media. I had to constantly reassert that, actually, yes I was a sexually desirable person.
Now I'm slimmer I don't have to do that anymore and therefore I don't worry about how much sex I have.0
