Anyone gain weight while eating under/at their BMR?

alleekat

Hi All! I'm new and just joined the group in the hopes of turning around this ridiculous weight gain of the past 6 months.
About 2 years ago, I was 127lbs (my lowest weight ever, but reached through severe severe restriction/undereating). I maintained it effortlessly even throughout a month long trip to Italy. Once I returned, I set about taking off the last few vanity pounds - even trying a fast for 10 days. Fast forward one year and I was almost 10lbs HEAVIER - in the bad my-pants-are-getting-tight way :-( This was all while dieting and exercising.

I continued to struggle to get it off/keep it from climbing, then 7 months ago, I relocated across country, and my weight just started to shoot up. I was exercising 4-6 days a week. I was counting calories meticulously, and I was grossing anywhere between 400-1100 calories a day. I figure even if I were to take into account a huge margin of error, I would still have mostly been eating under my BMR. Yet, I put on 12lbs of fat!! I'm currently violating the laws of thermodynamics, and no one believes I could have gained weight undereating.
I've had my thyroid checked, numbers are in range albeit on the low end. Cortisol levels are low in the am, but normal the rest of the day. Hormone levels are normal.

Undereating is giving me the complete opposite of what I am trying to achieve. The weight gain seems to have stopped, as I've been holding steady for about 2 months. I've been slowly bumping up to 1300/day, but I'm terrified to really up my calories because I've already put on so much weight (I'm already busting out of my clothes; if I gain any more, I'll have nothing left to wear!).

I teach dance (dancing with the students) 4hrs/week; walk about 15-20 miles/week; vigorous yoga 2-3x/week; resistance training 2x/week.
I'm 39; 5'3.5" 147lbs. ScoobysWorkshop gave me:
BMR of 1336
TDEE of 1838
20% cut of 1470
(This is pretty much in line with the BMR testing I had done a couple of months ago.)

An extra 500 calories a day looks scary, given that I've already put on so much and much less. Has anyone else experienced significant weight gain PRIOR to starting a reset? How did the reset go?

Thanks so much!!

ANewLucia

What activity level did you choose? If moderate, it sounds that you do more than 3-5hrs of activity weekly.

I would suggest if there is any way to cut back some of the cardio and do 3 lift sessions for an hour. Lifting heavy will help you gain some muscle while losing the fat.

Also, I would STRONGLY suggest that you do a full metabolic reset...yes you may gain weight but you will heal your metabolism so it is burning higher as it should and then you can take a small cut to start losing fat while retaining muscle.

jtmurph7

You sound just like me..

I was 128lbs 2 years ago I was barley eating and still trying to loose that last 10lbs. I was running 3x a week 3 to 5 miles each time I ran and doing Zumba 3x a week and workingout at the gym when I could. I was still unhappy with the way I looked. Then I started gaining weight and It wouldn't stop. I am 5' and 147lbs. In January I stopped almost all of the cardio and started lifting weights again. I lift as heavy as I can 3x a week and I do zumba 1 day and I run 1 day ( I enjoy running 5K's and 10K's with my friends) I found EM2WL in February and I realized that I was not fueling my body. I am 6 weeks in to my metabolic reset. I was 143 when I started so I have gained 4lbs. I am eating at my TDEE 2065. I am not sure how long I am going to eat at this before I decide to do a cut. I know It will be at least another 6 weeks if not longer. I feel so much better physicaly I am getting there mentaly. I have decided it is not the scale that matters so much as it is the building muscle and loosing inches. I have made good food choice for the most part while increasing my calories. This is truly right thing to do. I believe this is what is going to work for me. It is going to be a long road but I am headed in the right direction.

I hope this helps you to realize that you are not the only one out there that gained weight while eating under 1200 calories.
Feel free to send me a friend request.
Best of Luck,
Tammy

amandacepstein

This is a pretty interesting article that talks about how we can gain weight undereating. I really like his stuff and find it helpful to read as I gain weight doing a reset.

http://www.billycraig.co.uk/1/post/2012/03/set-point-theory.html

alleekat

What activity level did you choose? If moderate, it sounds that you do more than 3-5hrs of activity weekly.

I would suggest if there is any way to cut back some of the cardio and do 3 lift sessions for an hour. Lifting heavy will help you gain some muscle while losing the fat.

Also, I would STRONGLY suggest that you do a full metabolic reset...yes you may gain weight but you will heal your metabolism so it is burning higher as it should and then you can take a small cut to start losing fat while retaining muscle.

I chose lightly active. I don't work a desk job, but I sometimes feel like I'm more sedentary than I should be outside of exercise.

I won't be able to cut out the dance part of the cardio yet, since it's my job; however, the semester ends at the beginning of May, and I'll have a break from teaching then.

How heavy is heavy??

Thanks!!

alleekat

You sound just like me..

I was 128lbs 2 years ago I was barley eating and still trying to loose that last 10lbs. I was running 3x a week 3 to 5 miles each time I ran and doing Zumba 3x a week and workingout at the gym when I could. I was still unhappy with the way I looked. Then I started gaining weight and It wouldn't stop. I am 5' and 147lbs. In January I stopped almost all of the cardio and started lifting weights again. I lift as heavy as I can 3x a week and I do zumba 1 day and I run 1 day ( I enjoy running 5K's and 10K's with my friends) I found EM2WL in February and I realized that I was not fueling my body. I am 6 weeks in to my metabolic reset. I was 143 when I started so I have gained 4lbs. I am eating at my TDEE 2065. I am not sure how long I am going to eat at this before I decide to do a cut. I know It will be at least another 6 weeks if not longer. I feel so much better physicaly I am getting there mentaly. I have decided it is not the scale that matters so much as it is the building muscle and loosing inches. I have made good food choice for the most part while increasing my calories. This is truly right thing to do. I believe this is what is going to work for me. It is going to be a long road but I am headed in the right direction.

I hope this helps you to realize that you are not the only one out there that gained weight while eating under 1200 calories.
Feel free to send me a friend request.
Best of Luck,
Tammy

Ohmygosh. It sucks that you're going/have gone through this same thing too, but I can't tell you what a relief it is to feel like I'm not completely crazy. 4lbs in 6 weeks doesn't sound so bad at all. I think my recent gain was quicker while undereating. Did you start at 2065 right away, or did you gradually work your way up? Have you noticed other changes such as clothes fitting better yet?

It's so encouraging to hear you story. Thank you so much!

alleekat

This is a pretty interesting article that talks about how we can gain weight undereating. I really like his stuff and find it helpful to read as I gain weight doing a reset.

http://www.billycraig.co.uk/1/post/2012/03/set-point-theory.html

Thank you! This is great!

norcal_yogi

bump to read later! sounding like me!

jtmurph7

You sound just like me..

I was 128lbs 2 years ago I was barley eating and still trying to loose that last 10lbs. I was running 3x a week 3 to 5 miles each time I ran and doing Zumba 3x a week and workingout at the gym when I could. I was still unhappy with the way I looked. Then I started gaining weight and It wouldn't stop. I am 5' and 147lbs. In January I stopped almost all of the cardio and started lifting weights again. I lift as heavy as I can 3x a week and I do zumba 1 day and I run 1 day ( I enjoy running 5K's and 10K's with my friends) I found EM2WL in February and I realized that I was not fueling my body. I am 6 weeks in to my metabolic reset. I was 143 when I started so I have gained 4lbs. I am eating at my TDEE 2065. I am not sure how long I am going to eat at this before I decide to do a cut. I know It will be at least another 6 weeks if not longer. I feel so much better physicaly I am getting there mentaly. I have decided it is not the scale that matters so much as it is the building muscle and loosing inches. I have made good food choice for the most part while increasing my calories. This is truly right thing to do. I believe this is what is going to work for me. It is going to be a long road but I am headed in the right direction.

I hope this helps you to realize that you are not the only one out there that gained weight while eating under 1200 calories.
Feel free to send me a friend request.
Best of Luck,
Tammy

Ohmygosh. It sucks that you're going/have gone through this same thing too, but I can't tell you what a relief it is to feel like I'm not completely crazy. 4lbs in 6 weeks doesn't sound so bad at all. I think my recent gain was quicker while undereating. Did you start at 2065 right away, or did you gradually work your way up? Have you noticed other changes such as clothes fitting better yet?

It's so encouraging to hear you story. Thank you so much!

I knew what had to be done so I jumped right in with both feet. It took me about a week to get to 2065. I was really feeling full and had to stuff my self to get all of the calories in sometimes I fall a little short on my calories but I try not to do that very often.. I drink protein shakes with all kinds of good stuff in them to get the calories higher. I looked at other peoples diaries to get ideas on what to eat for snacks. I have read and read these message boards. I also lift weights. My clothes are getting tight in some spots..I am short and most of my weight is in my stomach and hips but I am building muscle. I can see changes in my legs and arms. I know it is not going to be like this forever. This is not a quick fix. As long as I can do this reset right when I do my cut I will start loosing fat and inches.

Tammy

SweetHarmony81

I'm bumping in! This IS ME and I need to see what others think...
I had already gained some weight before starting the reset (so still eating less than my TDEE but more that I used to). Since started the reset I have gained some more. I know the theory of reset is nice and that's why I'm doing it BUT it's difficult socially! Can hardly find clothes that fit right now :frown:

bradthemedic

If you gain body fat at your bmr, then it isn't your bmr.

alleekat

If you gain body fat at your bmr, then it isn't your bmr.

I've had my BMR tested (VO2 max), which means that it is.
If for some reason the test was ridiculously inaccurate, then my BMR would be under 800 calories a day, since I was typically eating 400-1000 calories a day AND exercising.

I know that it defies everything we supposedly know, but it happened.

bigdgeek

If you gain body fat at your bmr, then it isn't your bmr.

I've had my BMR tested (VO2 max), which means that it is.
If for some reason the test was ridiculously inaccurate, then my BMR would be under 800 calories a day, since I was typically eating 400-1000 calories a day AND exercising.

I know that it defies everything we supposedly know, but it happened.

The exact same thing is happening to me....netting under BMR and gaining weight. Did you ever figure out what's going on with you?

BluthLover

I'm in the same boat!!! I'm currently starting a reset. I was 125 and my body media says I burn 2600 a day. I was and have been eating 1600-1900 a day and gained steadily. So I'm doing a reset. I'm 144 now.

nothingwithoutHim

Hi. Join the club. I gained 60 pounds eating less than 1000 cals and exercising like a maniac. What the heck?? I know. It stunk. I went to the doctor to have my thyroid checked and she told me to just eat less and exercise more. Wow. Thanks doc! Stellar advice!

I haven't lost any weight, but I've been doing EM2WL for about a year now, I think the key factor is TRULY strength training. It reshapes the body and is totally amazing, plus you can get all in the groove lifting and feel totally hardcore. ;p

Figure out your TDEE, slowly up your cals until you are there, and reset while lifting heavy. (I've found stronglifts (stronglifts.com) is AHmaaaaazing, just my personal preference though, find what works for you.) Repair your metab and then come back and figure out this cut thang! ('Cause I'm cluuueeeless on that, lol)

alleekat

The exact same thing is happening to me....netting under BMR and gaining weight. Did you ever figure out what's going on with you?

I never did figure it out, and I still haven't lost any weight. I even completed the Insanity program, hoping to shake things up, with not an ounce or a centimeter lost.
I'm seriously past my wits end. I feel like no one believes me, and I keep hearing it's just as simple as "eat less and move more".
:-(

norcal_yogi

The exact same thing is happening to me....netting under BMR and gaining weight. Did you ever figure out what's going on with you?

I never did figure it out, and I still haven't lost any weight. I even completed the Insanity program, hoping to shake things up, with not an ounce or a centimeter lost.
I'm seriously past my wits end. I feel like no one believes me, and I keep hearing it's just as simple as "eat less and move more".
:-(

possibly consider taking a full workout break - for a week or two.... while eating 'normally' for you. maybe 1600-1700, idk. better yet, no workouts and eat intuitively. then see where you are at and how you are feeling.

Wanting2BSkinny

Bump

heybales

The exact same thing is happening to me....netting under BMR and gaining weight. Did you ever figure out what's going on with you?

I never did figure it out, and I still haven't lost any weight. I even completed the Insanity program, hoping to shake things up, with not an ounce or a centimeter lost.
I'm seriously past my wits end. I feel like no one believes me, and I keep hearing it's just as simple as "eat less and move more".
:-(

So doing an almost total anaerobic carb burning workout frequently is a huge stress on your body.

You ever read up on the effects of stress on your body and it fighting fat and weight loss?

Did you look up and apply the Insanity eating levels?

I mean, this EMTWL isn't the first program by a long shot advocating taking a reasonable deficit so the body doesn't fight you to the bitter end, only to end up losing muscle mass, and repeating it again next year, but worse.
This recommendation and knowledge has been around for 20 yrs, just more studies in recent years showing just how bad it is to do it wrong, and the after effects of such poor decision.

If gaining or not losing while netting under your BMR, then that ain't your BMR obviously. Perhaps made worse by really bad estimate of calories burned not only in exercise but also in daily activity (TDEE level guess), combined with too safe of estimates of food eaten.

Ready to allow your sweat and pain to have good results, ready to lose the stress of no loss?
You gotta be mentally ready to give up the fact your current method and direction ain't working, "eat less and move more".
That advice is compared to when someone starts, and that's merely all that would need to be done when you start.
Eat a few less things daily, maybe about 250 less calories, move 30 min more daily burning about 250 more calories. If everyone did that there wouldn't be so many problems.
But far too many start moving a whole lot more than previously, combined with a total diet change and calories levels they have no clue how they compare to what they were eating, and with that now huge deficit, come screeching to a halt in weight loss. Or worse, l lose decent amounts of muscle mass and LBM in total, and not only current metabolism drops, but now future ability to maintain is shot.

heybales

I've had my BMR tested (VO2 max), which means that it is.
If for some reason the test was ridiculously inaccurate, then my BMR would be under 800 calories a day, since I was typically eating 400-1000 calories a day AND exercising.

I know that it defies everything we supposedly know, but it happened.

They don't test your BMR with a VO2max test. And in fact, unless you specifically asked for it, the 5 min sitting in chair at start of test to establish a baseline, isn't even RMR either. Need 15 + min usually relaxing back for that.
You would have gotten measurement above RMR really.

Did you exercise the day before the test, did you eat within 8 hrs of the test?
Hopefully not, or the results are invalid for the VO2 max aspect too, and the baseline they obtained.

And no, forcing your RMR down by under-eating and exercise is entirely possible and done by many.

alleekat

I've had my BMR tested (VO2 max), which means that it is.
If for some reason the test was ridiculously inaccurate, then my BMR would be under 800 calories a day, since I was typically eating 400-1000 calories a day AND exercising.

I know that it defies everything we supposedly know, but it happened.

They don't test your BMR with a VO2max test. And in fact, unless you specifically asked for it, the 5 min sitting in chair at start of test to establish a baseline, isn't even RMR either. Need 15 + min usually relaxing back for that.
You would have gotten measurement above RMR really.

Did you exercise the day before the test, did you eat within 8 hrs of the test?
Hopefully not, or the results are invalid for the VO2 max aspect too, and the baseline they obtained.

And no, forcing your RMR down by under-eating and exercise is entirely possible and done by many.

My most recent test(s) were higher than I believe is accurate. They indicated 1680 and then 1560 later, when I asked for a retest due to the number being what I considered ridiculously high for me, compared to a previous test. The testing conditions were not properly set up - poor prep/pre-test instructions (the first time I had a few almonds about 2 hours before the test), not relaxing back, 10 minute test. The retest I disregarded her poor instructions and followed the instructions from a prior test I had done; I made sure it was at least 36 hours since I exercised and I ended up fasting all day because she scheduled the test for 6pm. Even with all of that, I still believe testing conditions to have been poor, and I don't believe the 1560 that came up.

The prior test I had done just over a year ago - 15 minutes, with good pre-test instructions, able to relax. That came out to 1164. I trust that number because I was undereating, which then was why I (stupidly) continued to keep calories so low.

Is it possible that I lowered it below that?

heybales

My most recent test(s) were higher than I believe is accurate. They indicated 1680 and then 1560 later, when I asked for a retest due to the number being what I considered ridiculously high for me, compared to a previous test. The testing conditions were not properly set up - poor prep/pre-test instructions (the first time I had a few almonds about 2 hours before the test), not relaxing back, 10 minute test. The retest I disregarded her poor instructions and followed the instructions from a prior test I had done; I made sure it was at least 36 hours since I exercised and I ended up fasting all day because she scheduled the test for 6pm. Even with all of that, I still believe testing conditions to have been poor, and I don't believe the 1560 that came up.

The prior test I had done just over a year ago - 15 minutes, with good pre-test instructions, able to relax. That came out to 1164. I trust that number because I was undereating, which then was why I (stupidly) continued to keep calories so low.

Is it possible that I lowered it below that?

Ouch, late day test with long fasting, I'd be grumpy with them!

I doubt you had such poor testing conditions to cause 400 cal increase, even standing isn't that much difference.

But yes you could lower RMR even further. Undereating and endurance cardio combined could do that, or either individually too.

Now, what doesn't show up in even the best RMR test is the other thing that happens when under-eating for level of activity that studies have found. Your body slows down other activity throughout the day that burns calories. Just so it has enough for the BMR functions it can't slow down enough. So what used to be a 2000 calorie typical burn day with say 400 cal exercise burn, becomes 1800. So your exercise really only got you an extra 200 burned because of that daily slowdown.

That's why when people start eating more they typically report feeling more energetic - they are, and burning more.
It's why eating 200 more calories say could have you burning 400 more daily, net burn increase of 200 calories.

I would base the math on the last test no matter what. And that's RMR, so it should be converted to BMR to base math on.
My spreadsheet does that on the TDEE Deficit tab once you have your stats in the Simple Setup tab. Along with suggested bodyfat% that would cause that BMR.
So on the Simple Setup tab you would substitute the BF% for measured one, just so the BMR comes out correctly. UNLESS, the BMR is lower than potential - never eat to lower, it'll only force it lower.

Here's case study of what some did to themselves, and got out of it.

---

A similar case study was published by Jampolis (2004).

A 51 year old patient complained of a 15 lb weight gain over the last year despite beginning a strenuous triathlon and marathon training program (2 hours per day, 5-6 days per week).
A 3 day diet analysis estimated a daily intake of only 1000-1200 Calories.
An indirect calorimetry revealed a resting metabolic rate of 950 Calories (28% below predicted for age, height, weight, and gender).
After medications and medical conditions such as hypothyroidism and diabetes where ruled out, the final diagnosis was over-training and undereating. The following treatment was recommended:

Increase daily dietary intake by approximately 100 Calories per week to a goal of 1500 calories
32% protein; 35% carbohydrates; 33% fat
Consume 5-6 small meals per day
Small amounts of protein with each meal or snack
Choose high fiber starches
Select mono- and poly- unsaturated fats
Restrict consumption of starch with evening meals unless focused around training
Take daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement
Perform whole body isometric resistance training 2 times per week

After 6 weeks the patient's resting metabolism increased 35% to 1282 Calories per day (only 2% below predicted).
The patient also decreases percent fat from 37% to 34%, a loss of 5 lbs of body fat.

Jampolis MB (2004) Weight Gain - Marathon Runner / Triathlete. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 36(5) S148.

alleekat

If gaining or not losing while netting under your BMR, then that ain't your BMR obviously. Perhaps made worse by really bad estimate of calories burned not only in exercise but also in daily activity (TDEE level guess), combined with too safe of estimates of food eaten.

"Bad" as in over estimating or under estimating... or both (under for food, over for exercise)?

I weigh and measure everything I eat. On the rare occasion that I eat out, I select carefully and do my best to estimate - it's probably not perfect, but I don't think it should make a huge negative impact, since everything else is weighed/measured.

heybales

If gaining or not losing while netting under your BMR, then that ain't your BMR obviously. Perhaps made worse by really bad estimate of calories burned not only in exercise but also in daily activity (TDEE level guess), combined with too safe of estimates of food eaten.

"Bad" as in over estimating or under estimating... or both (under for food, over for exercise)?

I weigh and measure everything I eat. On the rare occasion that I eat out, I select carefully and do my best to estimate - it's probably not perfect, but I don't think it should make a huge negative impact, since everything else is weighed/measured.

In regards to calories burned, over estimate.
In regards to eating level, under estimate.

alleekat

If gaining or not losing while netting under your BMR, then that ain't your BMR obviously. Perhaps made worse by really bad estimate of calories burned not only in exercise but also in daily activity (TDEE level guess), combined with too safe of estimates of food eaten.

"Bad" as in over estimating or under estimating... or both (under for food, over for exercise)?

I weigh and measure everything I eat. On the rare occasion that I eat out, I select carefully and do my best to estimate - it's probably not perfect, but I don't think it should make a huge negative impact, since everything else is weighed/measured.

In regards to calories burned, over estimate.
In regards to eating level, under estimate.

That's what I figured. Thanks!
So, is it really possible to make errors of 600-800+ calories on a consistent basis? I'm asking totally honestly.

In my case, if my RMR is really 1560, as tested, and I was weighing/measuring food to 400-1000 (when I was putting on weight), I'd have been making - sometimes - 1000 calorie errors.

When I entered my info into the Simple Setup tab, and then used the TDEE Deficit to find that the RMR from my most recent test is that of someone with 27.4% BF - my actual is supposed to be 32%. The Cunningham RMR estimate is 1484. Would that be considered close enough?

heybales

That's what I figured. Thanks!
So, is it really possible to make errors of 600-800+ calories on a consistent basis? I'm asking totally honestly.

In my case, if my RMR is really 1560, as tested, and I was weighing/measuring food to 400-1000 (when I was putting on weight), I'd have been making - sometimes - 1000 calorie errors.

When I entered my info into the Simple Setup tab, and then used the TDEE Deficit to find that the RMR from my most recent test is that of someone with 27.4% BF - my actual is supposed to be 32%. The Cunningham RMR estimate is 1484. Would that be considered close enough?

Depends on amount of exercise, but not likely.
So it would appear your NEAT activity is a whole lot less than expected, you have very narrow range between tested RMR and TDEE.
Now studies have shown when undereating, your body decreases NEAT in response to leave enough calories for BMR, because you can only slow down those functions so much.
Combine that with HRM calories being inflated, and yes you could easily end up with no deficit.

One interesting case study (using rough figures from memory because it was not round numbers) was exactly where a person created 1000 cal deficit from calculated TDEE, and an estimated 500 extra in exercise. They didn't have that much to lose for healthy weight, but negative side effects (hair loss, skin problems) made them go to Dr, who was involved with university and equipment.
By the time they got into a lab for some testing, their BMR was measured 10% lower than expected for their LBM, their RMR was measured about 25% less, and their daily activity 75% less than expected for what they did.
So the slowdown in metabolism robbed much of that on paper 1000 cal deficit which may have been more or less in reality to start with.
And then their TDEE suppressed (because Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis NEAT lowered) wiped out rest of it.

So what happen in essence, they slowed their metabolism down as one effect.
Then they slowed their daily activity down burning less.

So even if the 500 cal burn for exercise was correct, they in essence moved 750 calories less during the whole day, and then combined with a slowed metabolism, they had no real deficit.

So you think you have a deficit in that situation, and eat a bit extra for weekend meals, or vacation, ect. What happens to extra calories? Fat added, because it was extra over maintenance, not extra over a deficit. Do that for weeks on end, you gain weight despite being on a diet.

Seeing that can happen, I'm picturing some level or combo of that happening with you.

So I'd start with your tested RMR as assumed correct because it's higher than calculated RMR based on BF%, and base goals on that higher figure.
As you found, that means the adjusted BF% is less than the calculator's estimate.

Now, this means down the road, we are going to assume your RMR for your measured LBM stays the same. If LBM stays the same, RMR stays the same.
So you'll have to do this when measurements change, if your measured BF% changes.
I have to do this too because my RMR is much lower from endurance cardio (perhaps I should think of a way to make this easier on next sheet update).

1 - So on the Simple Setup tab, enter the avg BF% from the calculations.
2 - Now go to Progress tab and log in current stats but NOT BMR/TDEE/TDEG.
3 - Take your tested RMR / LBM = calories per lb of LBM. I'd enter this figure over under the Eaten Daily column for tracking.
Now, if LBM changes too much, you'll use that same calorie per lb LBM to get new RMR figure.
4 - Now go TDEE Deficit tab.
Enter in right now your tested RMR (in the future if LBM changes too much, the new RMR figure you calculated).
Now you see the adjusted BF% you'll need to use.
5 - Back to Simple Setup tab.
Change the BF% cell to that adjusted amount. Now a better Katch BMR will be used for math.
Update Activity Calc if needed.
6 - Back to Progress tab.
You can enter in BMR, TDEE, TDEG now.

Yes, tad convoluted, but if you can retain your LBM, than your RMR would not change, only the adjusted BF% from the TDEE Deficit tab would change as weight is lost.
Just read through that list to see what is being done. Few steps merely for logging best info, few steps so the math is based on tested stats.

Follow steps mentioned under Your Results to increase your eating level slowly, I'd do 100 extra daily for week at time.

This will allow you to start on high side of deficits, because you hopefully know you can't keep lowering chasing a falling metabolism.

And yes, I'm already seeing where I can put in a cell on the Simple Setup tab for RMR and do the math automatically, and still make logging the results easy enough. Just need to find a place to put it.
I'm thinking up with the BF calculator, since that's what it would influence.

alleekat

One interesting case study (using rough figures from memory because it was not round numbers) was exactly where a person created 1000 cal deficit from calculated TDEE, and an estimated 500 extra in exercise. They didn't have that much to lose for healthy weight, but negative side effects (hair loss, skin problems) made them go to Dr, who was involved with university and equipment.
By the time they got into a lab for some testing, their BMR was measured 10% lower than expected for their LBM, their RMR was measured about 25% less, and their daily activity 75% less than expected for what they did.
So the slowdown in metabolism robbed much of that on paper 1000 cal deficit which may have been more or less in reality to start with.
And then their TDEE suppressed (because Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis NEAT lowered) wiped out rest of it.

So what happen in essence, they slowed their metabolism down as one effect.
Then they slowed their daily activity down burning less.

So even if the 500 cal burn for exercise was correct, they in essence moved 750 calories less during the whole day, and then combined with a slowed metabolism, they had no real deficit.

So you think you have a deficit in that situation, and eat a bit extra for weekend meals, or vacation, ect. What happens to extra calories? Fat added, because it was extra over maintenance, not extra over a deficit. Do that for weeks on end, you gain weight despite being on a diet.

Seeing that can happen, I'm picturing some level or combo of that happening with you.

Thank you so much for all of this info and all of your input!! The above, at least, makes a little sense to me. I swear, I thought I was somehow magically violating the laws of thermodynamics.

So I'd start with your tested RMR as assumed correct because it's higher than calculated RMR based on BF%, and base goals on that higher figure.
...

1 - So on the Simple Setup tab, enter the avg BF% from the calculations.
2 - Now go to Progress tab and log in current stats but NOT BMR/TDEE/TDEG.
3 - Take your tested RMR / LBM = calories per lb of LBM. I'd enter this figure over under the Eaten Daily column for tracking.
Now, if LBM changes too much, you'll use that same calorie per lb LBM to get new RMR figure.
4 - Now go TDEE Deficit tab.
Enter in right now your tested RMR (in the future if LBM changes too much, the new RMR figure you calculated).
Now you see the adjusted BF% you'll need to use.
5 - Back to Simple Setup tab.
Change the BF% cell to that adjusted amount. Now a better Katch BMR will be used for math.
Update Activity Calc if needed.
6 - Back to Progress tab.
You can enter in BMR, TDEE, TDEG now.

Yes, tad convoluted, but if you can retain your LBM, than your RMR would not change, only the adjusted BF% from the TDEE Deficit tab would change as weight is lost.
Just read through that list to see what is being done. Few steps merely for logging best info, few steps so the math is based on tested stats.

Follow steps mentioned under Your Results to increase your eating level slowly, I'd do 100 extra daily for week at time.

This will allow you to start on high side of deficits, because you hopefully know you can't keep lowering chasing a falling metabolism.

How high do I ultimately want to increase my calories? To net my BMR indicated on the spreadsheet? I don't have a HRM, and can't really afford one right now. I was using MFP's exercise calorie estimates (even though I was rarely to never eating exercise calories back) and when I did a little experiment, manually taking my heart rate and plugging it in to an online HR calculator, the burn came up super close; it also came up super close (within 3 calories) on the chart on the spreadsheet.

heybales

How high do I ultimately want to increase my calories? To net my BMR indicated on the spreadsheet? I don't have a HRM, and can't really afford one right now. I was using MFP's exercise calorie estimates (even though I was rarely to never eating exercise calories back) and when I did a little experiment, manually taking my heart rate and plugging it in to an online HR calculator, the burn came up super close; it also came up super close (within 3 calories) on the chart on the spreadsheet.

The goal is to whatever the TDEG says. Actually, if undereating for a while, the TDEE eventually.

In the end, you'll be netting over your BMR on avg, some days in reality might be lower, but on avg, above.
After all, do you really want to leave your body with ONLY the amount of calories it would like to burn if you slept all day?
Where's the extra energy needed for repairing what your exercise caused? Or hair and nails growing? (those aren't functions of BMR)

You be honest in the Activity Calculator, and since it's a week's worth of routine avg back out daily, your exactly calorie burn on a specific workout (which a HRM wasn't going to give you anyway, 35% off potential for women with expensive HRM) doesn't matter. The avg method balances back out.

alleekat

You be honest in the Activity Calculator, and since it's a week's worth of routine avg back out daily, your exactly calorie burn on a specific workout (which a HRM wasn't going to give you anyway, 35% off potential for women with expensive HRM) doesn't matter. The avg method balances back out.

Will average TDEE goal be accurate, even if my activity isn't always 100% consistent from week to week? My current activities are power yoga 3-4x/week, dance 2x/week, walking 30-60+ minutes per day. Sometimes, I might miss a class due to a studio's holiday schedule, etc... or I might even double up some days - throw in a hike after yoga, yoga+dance...
I was adding an Insanity workout into the mix here and there to try to retain some of the endurance level I had achieved (since I saw nothing else for all that hard work!).
Will it all balance?

Thanks again! Your input has been invaluable.

heybales

Will average TDEE goal be accurate, even if my activity isn't always 100% consistent from week to week? My current activities are power yoga 3-4x/week, dance 2x/week, walking 30-60+ minutes per day. Sometimes, I might miss a class due to a studio's holiday schedule, etc... or I might even double up some days - throw in a hike after yoga, yoga+dance...
I was adding an Insanity workout into the mix here and there to try to retain some of the endurance level I had achieved (since I saw nothing else for all that hard work!).
Will it all balance?

Thanks again! Your input has been invaluable.

Under Your Results in the sheet are the guidelines if you miss a planned workout using TDEE deficit method, and if you make it back up.

So if yoga is really 3 or 4 times, use 3.5 x minutes for weekly time. Walking is 45 min unless you know you are always closer to one end of range than the other. If there is always 1 or 2 Insanity workouts a week at some point, then include those minutes of high cardio.
Anything you throw in totally extra, log it as estimated calorie burn minus same deficit the TDEG is giving you, and eat it back that day.

heybales

So I'd start with your tested RMR as assumed correct because it's higher than calculated RMR based on BF%, and base goals on that higher figure.

1 - So on the Simple Setup tab, enter the avg BF% from the calculations.
2 - Now go to Progress tab and log in current stats but NOT BMR/TDEE/TDEG.
3 - Take your tested RMR / LBM = calories per lb of LBM. I'd enter this figure over under the Eaten Daily column for tracking.
Now, if LBM changes too much, you'll use that same calorie per lb LBM to get new RMR figure.
4 - Now go TDEE Deficit tab.
Enter in right now your tested RMR (in the future if LBM changes too much, the new RMR figure you calculated).
Now you see the adjusted BF% you'll need to use.
5 - Back to Simple Setup tab.
Change the BF% cell to that adjusted amount. Now a better Katch BMR will be used for math.
Update Activity Calc if needed.
6 - Back to Progress tab.
You can enter in BMR, TDEE, TDEG now.

Yes, tad convoluted, but if you can retain your LBM, than your RMR would not change, only the adjusted BF% from the TDEE Deficit tab would change as weight is lost.
Just read through that list to see what is being done. Few steps merely for logging best info, few steps so the math is based on tested stats.

Ok, based on this being done by myself and more than a few others, and seeing how many are getting RMR tests now, I did go ahead and update the spreadsheet.

I'd download a fresh copy since just starting to use it. Same link as above.

Below the Bodyfat % cell (and use what avg calc came up with, no tweaking), is a place to put your tested RMR.

If it's too low, it'll tell you to remove it, don't suppress an already suppressed metabolism basically.

But yours was higher.

So the BMR will be calculated on that tested RMR now. And it will reflect correctly on the Progress tab for better logging your stats. (I'd still input your tested RMR in there somewhere, so you can see how the cal / lb of LBM works out).
None of the steps above need be done, unless you just want to visually see what the calculated RMR would be based on BF%, then just look at the TDEE Deficit tab.

But Simple Setup tab stays with stats and measurements, and uses the best.