Squat form I've decided to stick with
iorahkwano
Posts: 709 Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zctrBQ_pZ9MThis is the squat form I decided to stick with. My awkward long thighs & short torso seem to give me balance problems (Falling backwards). I had to choose between "straight back but not going low enough" and "going parallel but leaning too forward." So I stuck with the first option. It looks like I'm not going very low because my camera person is holding the phone from an upwards angle & not at the same height as the squat rack bars. I'm probably not knee-to-hip straight, but close enough!
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i can't watch videos at work which is why I haven't been commenting, but have you already experimented with changing your stance? I have short legs and a long torso too and I squat MUCH wider than other people do. Not sumo, but somewhere half way between.0
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I know you say you are "sticking with it" but I'm afraid not going deep enough will lead to quad / hamstring imbalances.
Have you tried low-bar? That will allow you to lean a little forward without it being "bad".
Also you could try box squats to help you sit back enough without falling. Basically you can allow yourself to fall backward at first, then keep the box there and try to "almost" sit on it but not quite.0 -
Also a friend watched it and she mentioned you seem to be looking up at hte ceilig - try a more neutral head position looking slightly down and forward. (or whatever feels comfortable).0
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That's the lowest the bar will go on me, any lower & it slides down my back with every rep.
I've looked at different videos & tried almost everything:
- normal stance
- wide stance
- toes pointed forward
- toes pointed outward
- regular grip
- narrow grip
- thumb-under bar
- thumb-over bar
- elbows inward
- elbows upwards
- looking forward
- looking up
- regular shoes
- flat shoes
- Smith machine
My body just can't be fixed. Maybe it's my scoliosis.0 -
Also you could try box squats to help you sit back enough without falling. Basically you can allow yourself to fall backward at first, then keep the box there and try to "almost" sit on it but not quite.
I agree with this...this helped me so much as the weight got heavier to correct the weirdness that started to happen with my form.0 -
I'm afraid you'll hurt your neck. If you look at it, your back is all nice and straight and then your neck suddenly goes WHOA way out of line. I would prefer to see you with a neutral alignment. For me that means looking slightly down and forward. It can almost feel like you are looking too far down, but if you video it, you'll see it's actually neutral (if you're doing it right.)
Not sure what else to recommend regarding getting lower, I'm not *that* tall, and I don't really have much of an issue. But like BusyLady said, you may end up with a muscle imbalance if you don't go low enough. And at some point it's my understanding that that can be what leads to knee injuries. (Anyone else, please correct me if I'm wrong on that?)0 -
My body just can't be fixed. Maybe it's my scoliosis.
I work out with a girl that has wicked scoliosis, she squats to dept.I'm probably not knee-to-hip straight, but close enough!
nope, don't settle for this keep working at it.0 -
That's the lowest the bar will go on me, any lower & it slides down my back with every rep.
I've looked at different videos & tried almost everything:
- normal stance
- wide stance
- toes pointed forward
- toes pointed outward
- regular grip
- narrow grip
- thumb-under bar
- thumb-over bar
- elbows inward
- elbows upwards
- looking forward
- looking up
- regular shoes
- flat shoes
- Smith machine
My body just can't be fixed. Maybe it's my scoliosis.
I have scoliosis too. I'm by no means an expert, but where is yours and how severe?0 -
i can't watch videos at work which is why I haven't been commenting, but have you already experimented with changing your stance? I have short legs and a long torso too and I squat MUCH wider than other people do. Not sumo, but somewhere half way between.
I have really long legs (I'm almost 5'11") so I do a wide stance but not full blown sumo. Helps with the balance thing. It also seems to be working my inner thighs a bit more. These are much more comfortable for me.0 -
The bar is not on my neck or that bony bump where my spine is, it's on that ledge on my upper shoulder blades like Rippletoe suggests. My neck is quite comfortable. I only look up to encourage myself to keep my chest/body up as much as I can.
As for the lowness, I just don't think I can do it while keeping balance. My long thighs send me so far back & my short torso doesn't give me much counterbalance. I can't really do a free squat at parallel or else I fall back. I can do an *kitten*-to-the-grass squat with no problem but I can't balance at parallel.
If it means anything:
My thigh is 16"
My shin is 14"
My torso (shoulder to y'know) is 23".0 -
.The bar is not on my neck or that bony bump where my spine is, it's on that ledge on my upper shoulder blades like Rippletoe suggests. My neck is quite comfortable. I only look up to encourage myself to keep my chest/body up as much as I can.
As for the lowness, I just don't think I can do it while keeping balance. My long thighs send me so far back & my short torso doesn't give me much counterbalance. I can't really do a free squat at parallel or else I fall back. I can do an *kitten*-to-the-grass squat with no problem but I can't balance at parallel.
If it means anything:
My thigh is 16"
My shin is 14"
My torso (shoulder to y'know) is 23".
no more excuses, just keep up the hard work0 -
If you look at me face-to-face, my spine is a slight "S". The angles are about 21-28 degrees. It's not to visibly obvioys but if you look at my back, one shoulder & shoulder blade is higher than the other. And I have a fat crease on one side of my waist, but not the other side.
It does cause my left arm to be stronger & come up higher than my right during bench press (I am right-handed). I am more flexible on my left side. Otherwise, I don't notice too much difference, it only shows up in weight lifting or sit-ups.0 -
This is low bar:
See how hit helps with the balance issue:
Basically you have to lean foward slightly to even get it off. Then you pretend like you trying to bend the bar over your shoulders to hold it on there. This also helps remind you to keep every muscle in your body tight. You "bend the bar", tighten your back, your stomach, your lower back, your hips, your *kitten*, your quads, only then you go down.0 -
Maybe try foam rolling?
I'm able to go much deeper with good form since I started rolling out my piriformis and a few other muscles. Amazing what that will do to your squats and balance.
Just keep working on it! If you gotta adjust, you gotta adjust.0 -
I'm a shorty and I have my feet wider than you do...and my toes are pointed towards the corners of the cage, so perhaps try that? Getting your form correct is so important so you don't cause injuries, muscle imbalance (that others have mentioned) and so you are performing at your best.
On thing that helped me get ATG with my squats was working on my flexibility--I do yoga 2-3 times a week. I also do this pose: http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/2472 (Garland pose--basically a deep, sustained squat) before I squat to get my muscles warm and limber.0 -
Have you tried working on your form without weight or just the barbell for a while? I’m tall too, so I get the frustration (although I have a long torso and stubby legs, so my issues are a little different), but if you aren’t building that strength at lower weights first with proper form, at heavier weights you are going to start using other things – like your lower back – to get the weight up.
My suggestions are to definitely change where your gaze is - head forward and gaze slightly down - and try bodyweight squats or just the barbell with different stances and bar placement, take videos, and adjust form that way first until it clicks. If you’ve only tried to adjust these things at a higher weight, it’s going to be difficult to know if it works if you don’t have the strength to use proper form yet anyway.0 -
My two cents are....maybe lower your weight and try to get lower and then work back up.
If you are finding balance is your issue...maybe you have to work on core strength. you might really see some depth improvement with deloading a bit and focusing on getting low enough.0 -
One thing that helped me get ATG with my squats was working on my flexibility--I do yoga 2-3 times a week. I also do this pose: http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/2472 (Garland pose--basically a deep, sustained squat) before I squat to get my muscles warm and limber.
Interesting. I do yoga before lifting and I'll have to try that pose some time!
Just doing body weight squats helped a great deal too. Really get down and use your upper arms to push your thighs out and stay that way for a bit.
You have to work on flexibility and keep things mobile, or your lifting form will eventually go to crap.
Also, if ATG squats work better for you, then do a major deload and do ATG and work your weights slowly up with those. Who cares? Better than being forced to go above parallel IMO for the sake of "weight progression". You only get 2 knees, make sure those stay protected so they keep working for you well into your old age.0 -
I can do #1 and #3, but #2 just feels impossible for me (balance-wise). I can't even do it without a bar, I just fall back because all my weight is behind my feet. My knees are trying to hold up so much weight at the end of a long thigh bone, it's a lot of pressure on the kneecaps. I did front squats for my first 4 weeks & then did back squat for the remaining 7 weeks. I'm surprised by this picture though, I was told the knees shouldn't pass over your toes.
I tried deloading... I was up to 145lbs, deloaded to 105lbs to experiment with different stances/grips/whatever but nothing helped... in fact it made it look worse. Now I'm just doing 130-135lbs.
I also have trouble with deadlift & barbell row because of the long leg/short body issue. Trainers have suggested sumo deadlift or trying to find huge plates that lift the bar a higher off the ground for me.
I'm a pretty flexible person, and I've been working on abs for years (Trained in kickboxing/jiu jitsu) but I guess I could investigate into that...0 -
Have you read Starting Strength? Rippetoe does go into body morphology and how to adjust lifts accordingly if your ratios are really much more varied than that of a "normal" (and I use that word loosely) person.
There's nothing at all wrong with sumo deadlifts or whatever else you gotta do. Just find lift adaptations that you can do with good form and use those.
If barbell rows don't work for you, then do pull-ups/chin-ups or something else that works your lats/upper back just as well. The Stronglifts police won't come after you, I promise.
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I can do #1 and #3, but #2 just feels impossible for me (balance-wise). I can't even do it without a bar, I just fall back because all my weight is behind my feet. My knees are trying to hold up so much weight at the end of a long thigh bone, it's a lot of pressure on the kneecaps. I did front squats for my first 4 weeks & then did back squat for the remaining 7 weeks. I'm surprised by this picture though, I was told the knees shouldn't pass over your toes.
I tried deloading... I was up to 145lbs, deloaded to 105lbs to experiment with different stances/grips/whatever but nothing helped... in fact it made it look worse. Now I'm just doing 130-135lbs.
I also have trouble with deadlift & barbell row because of the long leg/short body issue. Trainers have suggested sumo deadlift or trying to find huge plates that lift the bar a higher off the ground for me.
I'm a pretty flexible person, and I've been working on abs for years (Trained in kickboxing/jiu jitsu) but I guess I could investigate into that...
Yup. So do #3. That what I do (I'm 5'9" and have a 33" inseam). The knees over the toes thing isn't important. The bar should just be over the center of your foot at all times. Also, if you go past parallel it takes all the pressure off you knees and rests it on your *kitten* instead.
This an old video of mine. My low bar is really low. My form isn't perfect but it shows where the bar is (I've been really working on "hip thrust" since then, I have very little of it here).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSgfdxKjk9A 0 -
I'll take some pictures of me squatting against a door to show you what I mean about the thigh thing, hold on0
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If you compare me to this chart, you will see that even with my knees slightly pass my feet and my body bent over forward, I still can't get where the imaginary bar behind my neck would be to line up with the middle of my feet because of my thigh putting me so far back. The only way to balance is to lean forward but that "leaning forward" is what everyone criticizes in my squats. Does this make sense or am I just crazy? Because I'm not the type to make up excuses, I do a lot of sports & have trained hard for the last couple years in many things 
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If you compare me to this chart, you will see that even with my knees slightly pass my feet and my body bent over forward, I still can't get where the imaginary bar would be to line up with the middle of my feet because of my thigh putting me so far back. The only way to balance is to lean forward but that "leaning forward" is what everyone criticizes in my squats. Does this make sense or am I just crazy? Because I'm not the type to make up excuses, I do a lot of sports & have trained hard for the last couple years in many things
I think you can and should lean forward more. Who's criticizing it? (I had some dude tell me I was leaning too far forward once. He had chicken legs and huge upper body, I didn't listen).0 -
Trainers, StrongLifts women on MFP & other weight-lifting guys in general...0
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That image I showed is from Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength. They are all correct. In fact Rippetoe prefers the third.
I found these images from StartingStrength.com:
You just have to keep your chest up, use lowbar, and keep the bar over your foot.0 -
That image I showed is from Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength. They are all correct. In fact Rippetoe prefers the third.
I found these images from StartingStrength.com:
You just have to keep your chest up, use lowbar, and keep the bar over your foot.
Thanks so much!! This definitely makes me feel better. I knew I needed that leaning forward position but I couldn't convince all the naysayers to believe me at my gym & around MFP.0 -
I also worry about injury with your neck craned that way.
I started a thread about the hip hinge a few days ago and I think that might be something that you could really benefit from. I also agree with BusyLady about leaning forward more. I know that you often read stuff about not doing a "good morning" to come back up but I think that in order for you to keep the bar in line with mid foot, you do have to lean forward more and also not worry about your toes going over your feet.
Unfortunately the pictures of you squatting against the door look super awkward but I don't think it's because of physical limitations.
Please really take a look at the hip hinge video.....I truly think that will help you. In regards to the other lifts....deadlifts and such....modify so that they work for you. I have creepy short arms and have had to prop the bar up off the floor a bit more than normal form my deadlifts, otherwise my form is horribly off. Same for the Pendlay rows.
I also agree with the other posters that have said not to settle. I know its frustrating but keep at it and you will get it 0 -
Okay, I went back and found your old video, the #3. I think the leaning looks fine, your chest is nice and high, but you still aren't getting deep enough. You only have to go a few more inches. If you pause the video right at 22 seconds you'll see what I mean.
I'd lower your bar 2-3 inches on your shoulders, don't worry about knees going in front with your long legs, keep your chest where it was but just sit down a few more inches. Really focus on weight on your heels and outside of your feet. Go all the way back to bar if you have to. (Deloading sucks, I know, I recently went back to 85lbs from 140lbs because I took a couple of months off from it). If that still doesn't work switch to box squats (use a bench if your gym has no boxes).0 -
Went back and watched your other videos too. The leaning is definitely not an issue. I'm agreeing with deloading and a lot more practice. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's important to get your form down first.0
