Is Being Lesbian/Gay...A Lifestyle?
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I have been a lesbian all of my life and never been with a man. I also was not brought up in a religious household, so I don't have a lot of mental programs that are designed to guilt and shame me for being a lesbian.
With this being said, I believe that being a lesbian is a choice. A lot of people in our lifestyle say they do not have a choice, that they were "born this way." But the truth is, you could be like a lot of people and lead a straight lifestyle. Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Now when it comes to gender and race, you cannot choose. If you were born with a penis and a vagina, then that was obviously not your choice. But having a sex change operation to be a completely different sex than you were born with is a choice. Because if you take away choices, you take away freedom.
Being poor and fat is a choice. That is off the subject just a little, but tying it back in to the topic at hand - how many people do you know or who are here on this forum who thinks that being poor or fat is out of your control due to your lack of education, your family, your background, genetics, etc.
My point is, there is a difference between being "born this way" (Race, gender) where you honestly don't have a choice in the matter, and saying your choices (being gay, rich, poor, fat, fit) are in fact, not choices because you can't "help" who you are. That is a crock pot of crap. If you need to justify to yourself why you are gay because you feel ashamed of it and you can't accept that it is your choice, and if holding that belief helps you sleep better at night - then more power to you. But there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
The reason why we have consistently lost the battle to have equality for our culture of people is because our debates are based on irrational and /or emotional reasons such as arguing about if being LGBT is a choice or not. And also, when LGBT try to quote the bible and justify why their choice is acceptable to a Christian who is conservative. If we stuck to the cold, logical and hard facts - which are:
A) The government is not suppose to get involved in religious issues (Separation of church and state) therefore, constitutionally has no say in what is "right" or "wrong" when it comes to marriage in a religious sense.
LGBT pay taxes - therefore we deserve to have as many choices as our straight counter parts, regardless of a straight person's religious beliefs (see above)
C) If LGBT can't adopt children, then we don't want to pay welfare when these breeders go out here and have unwanted children that they can't afford to take care of. We are not a part of that problem, so we shouldn't have to pay for it if we don't have equal rights.
Sitting there and arguing mindlessly over if it is a lifestyle, a choice or if you are born this way is the exact reason why it has taken us so long to be seen as equal. You can't fight ignorance with the need to feel validated. Straight people don't want to validate you, because it will detract from their ego and sense of separation. The only way you can combat a person who is dead set on keeping you separate from them is to quote undisputable facts that a straight person HAS to agree upon, regardless of their religion. In fact, the more we have these irrational and emotional debates with these idiotic holy rollers, all we are going to do is spin our wheels. Also, it just makes them want to invalidate you even more because they don't agree with your emotional reasons.
Imagine if our debates looked like this:
A) I am an LGBT and it is my choice to be this way, just like in America I have religious freedom and I can choose what religion to follow, including but not limited to who I love or have sex with. I am an LGBT and I pay taxes, which gives me the right to be equal financially.
C) I am an LGBT and it is not important to me that you honor my religious ceremonies, because that is your freedom of choice. However, my legal rights under the constitution are civil union.
In other words, who gives a crap what your feelings or religious views are. Nobody cares. The fact is, we have the right based on our religious freedom in this country, separation of church and state and being tax payers.
Even though I agree with your main points, I strongly disagree with your assumption that sexual orientation or gender identity is a choice. It's not, and there is a lot of science to back that up. By dismissing a biological imperative to be LGBT, you are opening up questions about what could be done to choose the "right" way. Yes, we have the choice to come out and be who we are but we do not have a choice as to who we are attracted to.
For starters, here is an article from Time from a few years ago referencing a study that showed how gay men's brains look more like straight women's, and lesbian's brains look more like straight men:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html
Brain shape and the nerves that connect different hemispheres is something that you would be born with. It is not really something that you could alter by making a choice. The scientific community knows that sexual orientation is something that is decided in the womb. The question they are trying to answer now is whether it is genetic or because of a specialized mix of hormones the fetus is exposed to. There are arguments for and against on both sides there.
You could also look at at how fraternal birth order effects a man's chances of being gay. Basically each older brother increases a man's odds of being gay by 28 to 48%. This may hint toward a hormonal reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
I could point out even more things, but I think I'll leave it at just these two for right now. The point, though, is that there is no choice. There never was a choice and there never will be a choice. The only people in the LGBT spectrum I see that might have a choice are those who are bisexual, but even they would have to repress either their same or opposite sex desires in order to "pass."
These are not beliefs people hold on to. These are direct scientific facts. I subscribe to this because it's what the empirical evidence points to. It's not because I'm ashamed of who I am, or that I'm trying to justify it, or whatever you said up there. It's because it is Truth. With a capital T Truth.
I agree we can't always choose how we feel, and especially, who we are sexually attracted to. But we always 100% choose to act on those feelings or not. Therefore, the feelings are not a choice - but acting on the emotion IS a choice. That is the perfectly clear distinction I want to make.0 -
So, just like I am not a murderer or a violent person just because I would love to kick my ex in the head, a person is not gay or lesbian based on their emotions, unless they ACT on those emotions and consummate a same sex relationship.
It's interesting and quite disturbing that you are trying to compare our sexual orientations with committing crimes. There is a difference between choosing to commit a crime when committing crimes is not one's natural state, and 'choosing' to NOT deny one's natural state by simply dating, marrying or having casual sex with someone of the same sex. Our sexual orientation is something that is deeply engrained in us. It is something that we are born with. We are absolutely gay or lesbian based on our emotions (attractions) regardless of whether we act on this. Just because some choose to deny themselves their natural state and engage only in heterosexual relationships does not mean that person is any less gay or lesbian. It just means that something in their life or upbringing has them absolutely terrified of acting on their natural attractions (probably religion, or homophobic family).It isn't until I act on my thoughts and emotions that I am officially a lesbian.
This is simply wrong. Again, just because one denies their natural being and chooses to act against their own desires in such a way does not mean that they aren't lesbian or gay. It just means they are severely closeted. We cannot choose who we become attracted to because the parts of our brain that determine our attractions are already developed at birth. This is exactly why there is an anatomical difference between the average heterosexual male brain and the average homosexual male brain. The average heterosexual male brain looks like other heterosexual male brains. The average homosexual male brain is similar to that of a heterosexual female. These anatomical differences lead to no other conclusion than: Baby, you were born this way! The fact that you can choose to deny yourself happiness by going against your nature doesn't mean you're not born gay or lesbian. It just means that we are all born with the ability to make ourselves completely miserable.I agree we can't always choose how we feel, and especially, who we are sexually attracted to. But we always 100% choose to act on those feelings or not. Therefore, the feelings are not a choice - but acting on the emotion IS a choice. That is the perfectly clear distinction I want to make.
Feelings (natural state) = not a choice = inherent = born with it
We DO NOT choose our sexual orientation. It's something that we're born with. Can we choose to go against our own nature? Sure, and we can lead completely miserable lives. It is natural to NOT do that. It is natural to NOT choose misery when happiness simply means realising and accepting our natural attractions.
Is being gay or lesbian a lifestyle? No. These are labels for our sexual orientation.
Look at every gay and lesbian in the world and you will not see a repeating lifestyle. There may be some similarities, but not one exactly the same. We're all different in the way we live our lives. We are all the same only in that we are born with whatever part of our brains gives us our sense of attraction.0 -
I agree with the poster above me. Its natural, a part of the person that was there from the start. People may choose to act on their feelings or not. If anything being out means that in the end being happy is more important to the person then being accepted and miserable. Choosing happiness instead of misery isn't a real choice, everyone wants happiness. Are some people scared of what will happen if they choose happiness? Yes and with good reason. Its fear that keeps people in the closet wether its religion based or based on what someone would do to them. That doesn't mean they aren't gay or lesbian though. They still are even if they hide what they feel.0
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Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.0 -
With regards to the "choice" debate - who you are is not a choice. If you are gay, lesbian, whatever you identify (or don't identify) yourself as, that is innate. Whether you choose to ACT based on who you are - that is a choice, and where the idea of "choosing to be miserable" comes from. I'm a lesbian. I could choose to be miserable and be only with men. But that is not me choosing to be straight. That is me choosing to not act on the fact that I am, and was born, a lesbian.0
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Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.
Basing our right to equal rights on tax status is not good either. We deserve equal rights simply because it's what is just and right. We may never be able to convince the uneducated and ignorant that we are born with whatever later on in childhood/adolescence leads to our attractions, but that's okay. We're not seeking validation from the bigots. We're seeking validation (legal recognition and equal treatment under law) from the government which is obligated to comply as noncompliance is unconstitutional.
This is a USA-centered argument, but similar arguments can be made for other developed nations. You're in Oklahoma though so this argument applies.
Lastly, it doesn't seem like we disagree on the main point that our sexual orientation is a birth trait. You have said that you've been lesbian your entire life. If you believe this then you believe you were born lesbian. You've contradicted yourself several times since that statement by trying multiple times to force the idea that sexual orientation is a choice because you can choose to be miserable, but then 0332 4 July comment you seemed to imply that sexual orientation is a birth trait before again pushing the 'you can choose to be miserable' argument.
You confuse and intrigue me. You're the first out lesbian I've met who pushes the 'it's a choice' argument. I could be wrong, but based on the expressions in your arguments and also the contradictions in those arguments I believe that you either don't believe or don't wholly believe your own arguments. If I'm right I'd like to ask one question: why?0 -
Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.
There is no logic to the origin of rights. There are legal arguments to be made, but that's just a matter of rules mongering. All that stuff that you say we don't have to bring into the mix is everything that the rules are based on, which is why validation comes into play. And really, it's not so much about validation as it is having the same understanding of reality; the reality of what it means to be homosexual in this case.
The only thing that gives us rights are other people because they choose to follow the Constitution in a particular way. If enough people wanted to completely change the US Constitution to remove the 5th and 14th amendments because they're bigots, we'd be screwed. Nothing we could do about it. Logic doesn't do squat for us at that point. We can't hide behind the seeming safety of being logical tax payers.0 -
I don't believe it is a lifestyle. I believe that it is simply YOUR life. It doesn't dictate what you wear and listen to for music...it is just YOU plain and simple!0
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Honestly. Who you love isn't a lifestyle.
People who do not know better or just spew a bunch of crap don't know the difference between behavior and attraction.
When people they "gay lifestyle" they mean sexually promiscuous. Which, I don't know ANY gay person who is sexually promiscuous. I seen a lot of heterosexual men and women and even quiet a few bisexual men and women who would be condemned as such, but that doesn't make all heterosexual or bisexual people sexual deviants.
Honestly, my lifestyle: eat, sleep, try not to get killed, and love everyone I see as Jesus did.
We are all human, we life a HUMAN lifestyle. We make mistakes, we try to learn from them to become a better person, that is what we all have in common.0
