Some advice, am I going about this the right way.

tempest501

Hi Guys,

I started my journey at 15 stone and am currently just under 12 now (168 pounds). I have some digital bodyfat calipers that have me at 12.8% and started at 33% and that measurement was not from the start. I set myself the goal of getting in shape to the 10-12 percent bf range and then wanted to start sculpting my physique a bit. My calories were 1640 up until a few weeks ago and I have been gradually moving them toward 2000 ,I am at 1800 at the moment. Didn't want to jump to quick in case it made me pile on the weight in fat.

I look at myself now and feel pretty happy and although I know I could shed some more bodyfat I felt it was a good time to stop dieting. My theory is to get to maintenance and hopefully stay there and build some muscle up as I think I am still in the noob gains area when it does to lifting as less than a year doing this. Does this logic sound ok? Or should I still be aiming to lower bf first.

The whole dieting thing was sending me a bit crazy too so was hoping this can work. I can add a pic later if it helps?

I am lifting 3-4 times a week and doing steady cardio on treadmill full incline. I was doing HIIT as well but someone in gym told me I should stop this for a bit as it would be counterproductive.

Thanks in advance

SideSteel

I don't think you're doing anything unreasonable.

How long have you been lifting for and what does your program look like?
Are your lifts going up?


You may get some benefit out of eating in a small surplus however that means you'd need to diet down again later and in your case that might not be ideal since it sounds like you're going a bit nutty over the dieting thing.

Feel free to post pics if you want an assessment as far as bulking/recomping/etc.

What part about dieting is driving you nuts? Is it the not eating enough part, or is it the tracking all your macros every day part?

tempest501

Bit embarrassed to post the pic but I am willing to get good advice lol.



My Program is three days at the moments consisting of the following

Chest Day with some Ab Work
I use the Incline Chest Press, Normal Chest Press, Chest Flys followed by press ups. Then Do an assortment of Planks and Frog Situps

Back and Arms
Wide Grip Pull Ups, Close Grip Pull ups, the MTS Row, Bent over Rows and Lat Pull Down.
Tricep Dips, Tricep Extentions/Rope & Bar.
21's Normal Curls and 21's hammer Curls
Shoulders and Legs
Shoulder Press, Shrugs, Frt and Side Lateral Raises and the excercise where you pull a plate to your chin (sry not sure what its called). Leg Press, Leg Curls and Leg Extensions.

I cant do Deadlift due to a back condition (Had a bad car accident) have also been staying away from squats for the same reason but I might try these anyway soon and see how my back copes.

I do cardio with all of the above (usually low intensity now due to advice from PT in gym)

My strength is going up and I try to increase my weight or reps every week. I was doing a 5 sets of 8 routine before this one and now I am doing 3 sets of 12.

The part of the diet that started to get on my nerves was 9 months of 1600 ish cals was just leaving me crumpy and now that I am trying to low carb on weekdays it was just making me miserable.

Hope thats enough info and sry for stupid face as I tried to take a pic.

SideSteel

I have some opinions and a few questions.

If you are going to train 3 days per week I would recommend you do a full body program, provided that you are able to insert a rest day in between each full body day.

Alternatively you could do an upper/lower split done 4 days per week where you'd do something like

Upper
Lower
Rest
Upper
Lower
Rest
Rest

My belief is that you'll make better progress by hitting your entire body 2 to 3 times per week vs once per week which is what you are currently doing (each bodypart gets hit once/week on your current program).

As far as bodyfat% goes, I'd put you above 12% but you certainly aren't obese/fat and obviously you've lost weight and made progress, so that's excellent.

I would continue to cut a bit more before bulking, but considering the duration at which you've been at 1600 calories and considering how you feel about dieting, you should probably stay on your path of increasing calories and consider taking a diet break once you hit maintenance. Give yourself a couple of weeks at TDEE, get your training program sorted out and then resume a deficit to lean out a bit further.

What has your bodyweight done since moving to 1800 calories?

Sarauk2sf

How long have you been lifting for?

tempest501

My weight seems stable at the moment i upped to 1800 today and have been doing this by 50 cals a week trying not to shock my system. (Do get worried its all going to pile on but also on the other side someone put the fear of god into me about metabolism dmg so scared of that too lol)

I have been lifting for about 8-9 months now.

If I do a full body program how is best to attack the body. Do I still do the same amount of sets or reduce sets per body part? Or what should I aim for set wise. So many different ideas about how long you should spend in the gym etc.

SideSteel

My weight seems stable at the moment i upped to 1800 today and have been doing this by 50 cals a week trying not to shock my system. (Do get worried its all going to pile on but also on the other side someone put the fear of god into me about metabolism dmg so scared of that too lol)

I have been lifting for about 8-9 months now.

If I do a full body program how is best to attack the body. Do I still do the same amount of sets or reduce sets per body part? Or what should I aim for set wise. So many different ideas about how long you should spend in the gym etc.

Most full body programs will be set up as follows:

Press
Pull
Squat
and then accessory work

Some will have multiple presses and pulls in the same day (all-pros for example).

So just for example:

Bench
Chin Ups
Squat
Accessory lift
Accessory lift

The above might be day A


Then

Overhead Press
Barbell Rows
Squats
Accessory lift
Accessory lift


The above might be day B (Most programs will have deadlifts as one of the pulls, I chose two non deadlift pulls for example since you don't deadlift).


Different programs have different rep ranges but ALL of them will have you:

a) Doing mostly compound barbell work (with varying amounts of accessory work)
b) Getting stronger over time (progression will be built into the program, ideally).


Here's an example:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

Starting Strength and Stronglifts are also good examples. The above link is a bit more hypertrophy oriented whereas SS/SL are a bit more strength focused but all 3 are excellent programs.

Regarding your food intake, do you know what your TDEE is? I would keep increasing intake and when you reach TDEE I'd sit there for a couple of weeks, then reintroduce a small calorie deficit.

tempest501

Can't thank you guys enough for the help you are giving. I can't access the link on my iPad at the no but will check when I get home. Sorry if the following are dumb questions. What number of sets per work out would I need to do? Main reason I started my current plan was because I was going to the gym at start and doing 3 sets of everything which was keeping me in the gym for 3-4 hours.

I checked my weight last night and have gained 3 pounds as well so wonder if I should go back down. I have been using creatine since slowly increasing caps does this make any difference. In my 4 th week of taking it and 4th 50 cal increase.

I used Scooby calc which was around 2k calls so not sure where the gain has come from . I have not been to strict on weighing myself last month has try to obsess less. Measurement were unchanged last Sunday.
Again thankbyou for helping me I really am appreciating it

Hendrix7

A sample rep scheme is given in the bodybuilding.com link in sidesteels post, or you go with 5 sets of 5 on the compounds and 3/4 sets of 8/12 on you accesory movements. The main thing the progression as mentioned.

checked my weight last night and have gained 3 pounds as well

over what period?

The creatine will increase water retention slightly so that's going to increase your scale weight a little bit.

tempest501

A sample rep scheme is given in the bodybuilding.com link in sidesteels post, or you go with 5 sets of 5 on the compounds and 3/4 sets of 8/12 on you accesory movements. The main thing the progression as mentioned.

checked my weight last night and have gained 3 pounds as well

over what period?

The creatine will increase water retention slightly so that's going to increase your scale weight a little bit.

That change has occurred over 4. Weeks.

I check the sample plan and that really helps. A feel daft asking but what is an accessory movement? Is that another term for isolation excercises?

Also, would the following be ok:

Wide grip Pull ups 2 sets
Lat pull down 2 sets
Row machine or bent over rows with SB 2 set
Inline chest press 2 sets
Normal chest press 2 sets
Chest fly 2 sets
Leg press 2 sets
Calve raises 2 sets
Leg curls 2 sets
Leg extension 2 set
21's normal / Hammer 2 sets
Tricep dips 2 sets
Trip pull down/bar or rope 2 sets

Press ups and abs

I am trying to make sure I don't miss anything

Hendrix7

I am trying to make sure I don't miss anything

^^^
That's complete overkill, you don't need 3/4 different movements for each body part at your stage.

There is really no need to try and compile your own routine when (with all due respect) you don't really know what you are doing when there are tons of routines out there written by experts.

All beginner programs will revolve around getting stronger on the basic movements.

The routine SS gave you is solid http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

if you can't do a traditional squat due to your issues look into single leg work

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/bulgarian_split_squats

tempest501

I am trying to make sure I don't miss anything

^^^
That's complete overkill, you don't need 3/4 different movements for each body part at your stage.

There is really no need to try and compile your own routine when (with all due respect) you don't really know what you are doing when there are tons of routines out there written by experts.

All beginner programs will revolve around getting stronger on the basic movements.

The routine SS gave you is solid http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

if you can't do a traditional squat due to your issues look into single leg work

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/bulgarian_split_squats

You are most definitely right I think hehe, just didn't want to miss out arms as its the one thing I despise on my body lol. The pulls I threw back in because I love doing them. Thanks for the link I will check it, would love to try get where I can do squats so maybe that is the answer

SideSteel

I am trying to make sure I don't miss anything

^^^
That's complete overkill, you don't need 3/4 different movements for each body part at your stage.

There is really no need to try and compile your own routine when (with all due respect) you don't really know what you are doing when there are tons of routines out there written by experts.

All beginner programs will revolve around getting stronger on the basic movements.

The routine SS gave you is solid http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843&page=1

if you can't do a traditional squat due to your issues look into single leg work

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/bulgarian_split_squats

You are most definitely right I think hehe, just didn't want to miss out arms as its the one thing I despise on my body lol. The pulls I threw back in because I love doing them. Thanks for the link I will check it, would love to try get where I can do squats so maybe that is the answer

Basically I agree with everything Hendrix wrote. If you can't squat or deadlift due to injury you'll want to look for replacement exercises, but generally speaking you're WAY better off sticking to big compound lifts and doing them more frequently vs doing a bunch of isolation lifts at high volume.

The reason you were having issues with sets/reps and taking 2 hours to get your lifting completed is simply due to too many exercises.

If you'd like to develop your arms there's nothing wrong with adding in some isolated arm training after you finish your bigger lifts.

tempest501

Tried the bulgarian squats today and they are awesome. I find them very hard but my back did not give me any trouble so I am hoping these will work for me.

One last question how many sets would be good per work or time in the gym not including cardio?

SideSteel

Tried the bulgarian squats today and they are awesome. I find them very hard but my back did not give me any trouble so I am hoping these will work for me.

One last question how many sets would be good per work or time in the gym not including cardio?

Once again I think this is program dependent and also rest intervals will vary from person to person to some extent. Assuming you are lifting when you are ready to lift for the heavy work I think it would be reasonable for your total lifting session to range in the 45 to 90 minute slot with most people being done in about an hour or so.

jmzz1

Bump

tempest501

Tried the bulgarian squats today and they are awesome. I find them very hard but my back did not give me any trouble so I am hoping these will work for me.

One last question how many sets would be good per work or time in the gym not including cardio?

Once again I think this is program dependent and also rest intervals will vary from person to person to some extent. Assuming you are lifting when you are ready to lift for the heavy work I think it would be reasonable for your total lifting session to range in the 45 to 90 minute slot with most people being done in about an hour or so.

Cheers just wanted a rough guide and will def help. I am going to finish this week and next with my old plan. As I like to change every 6 weeks. Taking a week off then as going away so I plan to get started with this when I get back. Thanks again for all those that gave advice