Cube Method Discussion

JNick77

I know at least a couple of you had worked with this method for a while and I'm trying to learn it so I thought it would be cool to get a discussion going. I've read the book and probably need to re-read it a couple times but I think I understand the approach but need some clarification on one thing so far. Basically it looks like there's 9-weeks to a cycle.

For the Heavy Days and Bench work, do you keep the same movement for the 3 heavy days in the cycle? If you start Heavy Day 1 with the Floor Press @ 80% of your Bench then are Heavy Days 2 and 3 also the Floor Press just at the different percentages? Or should you vary other exercises into it? Board Press, Close Grip Press, etc?

RE Deadlifting: I'm not sure how I'm going to do the 4" deficit DL's as my gym doesn't have blocks or anything that would support elevating the exercise. I could do the DL's from shin-height in a rack but that's as high as I can go up. Thoughts on supplementing that?

Then increasing weight is basically just do it as you feel it without missing a rep?

shutupandlift13

My only help is on deficit deads... stand on plates. I used to just stack a couple up to get me a few inches off the ground.

JNick77

My only help is on deficit deads... stand on plates. I used to just stack a couple up to get me a few inches off the ground.

Interesting, never thought of that one.

Also, so basically when he's saying do Deadlift from 1" Deficit @ 70% or Floor Press @ 80%, that really means do the Deadlift from 1" Deficit at 70% of your Conventional Deadlift 1RM and Floor Press @ 80% of your Bench Press 1RM?

ilovedeadlifts

Here's my .02 on everything.

I varied my heavy work and reps work. As I wanted to get some heavy bench, and some reps on it. So my heavy days were I think a floor press, a 1 board, and a standard bench press.
Reps days were incline press, floor press, and standard bench.
As you figure out which lifts have the best carryover to your competition bench, you'll start using them more often.

I have a strongman friend who uses cube(tweaked for him) and he essentially uses the comp lift for reps and heavy. For deads:
He does speed from the floor on week 1. Tries to hit 90% for a triple on week 2. Then shoots for his goal single on week 3.


As far as the pulling from different heights goes. 1" is a deficit pull. Stand on a plate to achieve this.
The 2" and 4" are block pulls, not deficits. You aren't standing on 2" of mats, the bar should be setting on them. The only idea I have there is to stack 2 plates on each side under the bar, but I don't know how your gym would feel about that.

The program is a template for you to tweak to fit your experience, goals, equipment etc. So worst case I would focus on deficit pulls and pulls from the floor. Maybe throw in a sumo pull from time to time.



As for the percentages, I just took everything as % of the main lift. so a 70% deficit pull, I based off of my standard deadlift.

JNick77

Here's my .02 on everything.

I varied my heavy work and reps work. As I wanted to get some heavy bench, and some reps on it. So my heavy days were I think a floor press, a 1 board, and a standard bench press.
Reps days were incline press, floor press, and standard bench.
As you figure out which lifts have the best carryover to your competition bench, you'll start using them more often.

I have a strongman friend who uses cube(tweaked for him) and he essentially uses the comp lift for reps and heavy. For deads:
He does speed from the floor on week 1. Tries to hit 90% for a triple on week 2. Then shoots for his goal single on week 3.


As far as the pulling from different heights goes. 1" is a deficit pull. Stand on a plate to achieve this.
The 2" and 4" are block pulls, not deficits. You aren't standing on 2" of mats, the bar should be setting on them. The only idea I have there is to stack 2 plates on each side under the bar, but I don't know how your gym would feel about that.

The program is a template for you to tweak to fit your experience, goals, equipment etc. So worst case I would focus on deficit pulls and pulls from the floor. Maybe throw in a sumo pull from time to time.



As for the percentages, I just took everything as % of the main lift. so a 70% deficit pull, I based off of my standard deadlift.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.

I'm not sure about the elevated pulls. I could definitely use plates but the damn plates are hex and they don't always land right and move forward, afraid one side would roll of the plate. I will definitely give it a try and stay as close to the recommendations as possible.

I was thinking the same thing about Sumo Squats. My gym does have a pair of Trap Bars so I could do some Trap Bar DL for assistance work too maybe. Not sure... I definitely need to read through this book again and then start working on my plan, probably two weeks out from trying it.

ilovedeadlifts

trap bars could possibly be your variant that replaces block pulls.
the point of block pulls is to work a different starting point, and be able to handle a little heavy weight.

trap bar deads let you handle a lot more weight than a standard pull. I don't think I'd use them for speed work but it'd be a decent idea for reps/heavy days.

JNick77

trap bars could possibly be your variant that replaces block pulls.
the point of block pulls is to work a different starting point, and be able to handle a little heavy weight.

trap bar deads let you handle a lot more weight than a standard pull. I don't think I'd use them for speed work but it'd be a decent idea for reps/heavy days.

Really? Damn, I guess I found a weak-point of mine as my trap bar max is about 20lbs short of my conventional. I agree, I wouldn't use them for speed pulls either.

ilovedeadlifts

Yeah I think most guys use the trap bar pulls to get some overload, and it also takes a little stress off your back.

It varies from person to person. My block pulls are less than my pulls from the floor. But some dudes can do block/rack pulls with wayyy over their max.

mommamuscles

forgage and I just started the cube method, we are finishing up week 2 this week. Were using it to get ready for a comp on May 18, so no full review yet but so far so good... I like that your heavy days vary for week to week, think this is probably good for recovery. So far it is kicking my butt though, I am incredibly sore every dang day!!!

JNick77

forgage and I just started the cube method, we are finishing up week 2 this week. Were using it to get ready for a comp on May 18, so no full review yet but so far so good... I like that your heavy days vary for week to week, think this is probably good for recovery. So far it is kicking my butt though, I am incredibly sore every dang day!!!

That's really good to hear. I definitely was feeling burnout from doing the full Westside Method and even WS4SB's can be draining with maxing out twice a week.

JNick77

I was going to wait a couple weeks to start but I decided to give it a go this week. Yesterday was my RE deadlift day and it was good, definitely a challenging workout. I did end-up using the Trap Bar instead of block pulls because my one gym has no way to elevate the bar unfortunately (no pads, blocks, anything, lowest pin in their racks is too high). Good times, looking forward to my next two workouts.

For my 4th workout of the week, I think that I'm going to focus on my shoulders for just the first 3 weeks. I'm thinking about this complex:

a1. Push Press 2-3 reps @ 95% of OHP 1RM
a1. OHP 4-6 reps (forget the %)
a3. DB OHP 8-10 reps
a4. DB Lat Raises 10-12 reps

repeat that for 4 or 5 circuits then do some chin-ups. I was thinking about some tricep work but I'm thinking that there is enough pressing in there to work my tri's adequately. We'll see I guess.

ilovedeadlifts

How'd you like the trap bar pulls?

Are you planning on hitting some regular overhead before the circuit? Cause, depending on rest periods, it'd be hard to move reasonable amounts of weight by doing 4 shoulder movements in a row.

I know brandon recommended doing overhead, claves, biceps, then picking weak points to hit.
I always did

Overhead Variant (I rotated between seated overhead presses, push press, strict press, overhead seated on floor)
I'd work up to a heavy set of 6 or 8. Or sometimes do straight weight for a few sets of 10.

I'd hit my biceps, and calves (supersetted if time was an issue)

Then I'd do another pressing movement, and pick one other area to hit.



I basically followed that excel sheet from Lilly for my first 9 weeks and was happy with how it was set up.
I think I'm going to transition back to using the cube from 5/3/1. My days are all the same anyway and I miss the lift variants.

Looking forward to seeing how all of this works out for you.

JNick77

How'd you like the trap bar pulls?

Are you planning on hitting some regular overhead before the circuit? Cause, depending on rest periods, it'd be hard to move reasonable amounts of weight by doing 4 shoulder movements in a row.

I know brandon recommended doing overhead, claves, biceps, then picking weak points to hit.
I always did

Overhead Variant (I rotated between seated overhead presses, push press, strict press, overhead seated on floor)
I'd work up to a heavy set of 6 or 8. Or sometimes do straight weight for a few sets of 10.

I'd hit my biceps, and calves (supersetted if time was an issue)

Then I'd do another pressing movement, and pick one other area to hit.



I basically followed that excel sheet from Lilly for my first 9 weeks and was happy with how it was set up.
I think I'm going to transition back to using the cube from 5/3/1. My days are all the same anyway and I miss the lift variants.

Looking forward to seeing how all of this works out for you.

I really like the Trap Bar pulls. I was concerned about the weight being too heavy as it's a % of the conventional DL but it was fine. I actually felt like doing an extra set, so I did it and it felt great.

In his book he mentioned that his 4th day was more of a bodybuilding type approach and I kind of feel that my shoulders are a weak point for me. When he said that I was thinking about just getting in a lot of volume and the below complex actually has a lot of volume to it, especially if you manage through a 5th or 6th circuit. Even at 4 circuits it's 111 total reps hitting the delt's and traps. I can still do some biceps, lat's, and calves. I was wondering if doing some extra focus on a weak area in short spurts (3-week intervals) would help shock some growth. I don't know, maybe it's not a good idea. LOL.

I really do like 5/3/1 but I hit a point where I wasn't getting anywhere with it, like it took me as far as I could go. Westside is by far my favorite method but it's intense and after a few weeks I felt pretty worn-out. To me the Cube is just a varied Westside template but I think it can recover better from it based on how Brandon has it setup, genius if you ask me. I can't wait until my first DE (explosive) workout to see how the increased loads are versus Westside's lower weight with bands approach.

ilovedeadlifts

I like your idea of blasting a weak point for 3 weeks then picking a new one. I've kind of done that approach and it seems to work so far. Weak points, or even lagging things in your physique will change from time to time, and hitting them with extra volume seems to bring them up rather quickly, then you can move onto something new.
Even that approach kind of has some Westside in it, you find a week point, pick the things to address it, then move on. Except with this, you're picking assistance lifts as opposed to the main movement.

I enjoyed the straight weight speed work for bench, left my shoulders/elbows in much better shape than when I was benching against bands. His %'s got a little high on a few workouts for me, I think I did floor press with something like 80% for sets of 3-5 and I slowed down quite a bit by the end of it. The speed deads with straight weight really seemed to help my confidence with the pull.

I think you'll like this cycle.

JNick77

I like your idea of blasting a weak point for 3 weeks then picking a new one. I've kind of done that approach and it seems to work so far. Weak points, or even lagging things in your physique will change from time to time, and hitting them with extra volume seems to bring them up rather quickly, then you can move onto something new.
Even that approach kind of has some Westside in it, you find a week point, pick the things to address it, then move on. Except with this, you're picking assistance lifts as opposed to the main movement.

I enjoyed the straight weight speed work for bench, left my shoulders/elbows in much better shape than when I was benching against bands. His %'s got a little high on a few workouts for me, I think I did floor press with something like 80% for sets of 3-5 and I slowed down quite a bit by the end of it. The speed deads with straight weight really seemed to help my confidence with the pull.

I think you'll like this cycle.

We'll see, I'm going to try it for 3-weeks and see how it goes. At least the regular workouts include some shoulder pressing and traps, so it's not like anything really goes un-addressed. For my weak point workouts I'm thinking about doing a shoulder focus, then lat focus, and then who knows from there. Maybe I'll just go back to select individual exercises and hit a little bit of everything like he outlines in the book. I need to minimize my bicep work for now though as it's been very sore lately. Either way, I'm very excited about this method.

Today was ME Bench day. The Floor Pressing was great, hadn't done it in a while unfortunately. I did warm-up sets up to my 80% weight and then did the 5 sets of 2. The last set was a little challenging for sure and the flat bench set of 2sets at 15 reps was pretty tough too. I think I pushed the weight a little high on that but I knew I could get it so I did. Dynamic Squat day on Thursday, can't wait.

ilovedeadlifts

Hell yeah man.
I remember the 2 sets of 15 on flat bench. They sucked pretty hard hahha.


I like your idea for sure. I've been trying to focus on my lats a bit more, doing chins or pullups every time I bench.

I'm trying to bring the work capacity of my biceps up, so I pretty much hit some type of curl 2-3x per week even if its just light stuff for high reps. I was having some tendonitis in my right arm, and someone reccommended poundstone curls, the high reps have done wonders for it.

JNick77

Hell yeah man.
I remember the 2 sets of 15 on flat bench. They sucked pretty hard hahha.


I like your idea for sure. I've been trying to focus on my lats a bit more, doing chins or pullups every time I bench.

I'm trying to bring the work capacity of my biceps up, so I pretty much hit some type of curl 2-3x per week even if its just light stuff for high reps. I was having some tendonitis in my right arm, and someone reccommended poundstone curls, the high reps have done wonders for it.

Completely agree on the chin-ups, I try and do them as much as I can. I always do them in place of lat pulldowns when the pulldowns are recommended.

I think part of the problem with my entire right arm actually is just playing flag football (QB) and softball at the same time. I played a lot as a kid and teen and developed some elbow and shoulder issues which apparently never really went away. LOL My bicep work will be minimal for right now. I do enough rowing and pull-up variations that I'm not overly concerned about it.

ilovedeadlifts

I know what ya mean man. I can't even throw a baseball anymore without some nasty elbow pain.
Skullcrushers kill my elbows too. I'd say after a few years of lifting, everyone starts to find a few lifts that they just can't do anymore.

I used to never do any direct biceps work at all, I've been trying to bring them up lately to see if it benefits me in any way. Regardless, I'd like to have the guns out this year

JNick77

I know what ya mean man. I can't even throw a baseball anymore without some nasty elbow pain.
Skullcrushers kill my elbows too. I'd say after a few years of lifting, everyone starts to find a few lifts that they just can't do anymore.

I used to never do any direct biceps work at all, I've been trying to bring them up lately to see if it benefits me in any way. Regardless, I'd like to have the guns out this year

I had stopped doing any iso-tricep exercises and pretty much just did Dips, sometimes with resistance. Yesterday's pressdowns for 4 sets of 25 was kinda crazy, felt good though.

I would kinda' like to do more bicep work for the same reason but I think I should stop for now. I was BB curling half my bodyweight for max reps and then I would do 3 or 4 sets of 15-20 Off-set DB Curls, very controlled on the eccentric, those burned pretty good.

ilovedeadlifts

If you don't do a lot of pushdowns normally, the first few weeks of cube will be fun haha.
Shrugs also. The program is pretty heavy on barbell and DB shrugs.

I'm taking a light week then starting that 9 week cycle again. I enjoyed it before but was just a bit burnt out at the time.

JNick77

Okay, so I missed Thur's DE Squat day due to a late night of vodka & Redbull. I went today and I had forgotten how taxing DE work can be. I really did enjoy the workout, though I don't have bands for the 2nd Reverse Band Squat exercise @ 80% but I can't see how that's the end of the world. I was a little worried about the jump in weight from my DE work weight to the 80% squat, but it was actually very smooth. Sad to say but I've actually been struggling with my squat lately and this set felt great! If my allergies weren't killing me I'd have done a second set. I'm already looking forward to next week's workouts, so far so good. The DB Swings were a great way to finish the session.

I joined a new gym closer to my GF's and today was my first day there. A lady was squatting in the smith machine and I starting warming-up in the half-rack which is actually a very nice rack. She walked over and offered me a neck pad to use while I squatted. I didn't know how to react at first, I was like "what's this for?" and she said it's for your neck. I just said no thanks that I was good and went back. She was looking at me like I was nuts. LOL. I hate using any pads or anything else, I want to feel the bar.

This gym also has a big truck tire in the studio! Since they don't have any classes I could do some conditioning with the tire, down and back, so I'm pretty stoked about that too. They have a Prowler but it's kept under a huge lock, so I can't use that in the morning when I go to lift unfortunately. Unfortunately they don't have a GHR bench or a Trap Bar. But their plates are at least round so I can elevate them on other plates and not worry about them resetting wrong for elevated DL's.

mommamuscles

Finished up week three of the Cube today. Things are going very well. I had some crazy fatigue those first two weeks. I'm not really sure what the big difference was because it kinda made me feel like I had just started working out. Last week I felt like crap, was missing alot of my lifts and really frustrated. I spent the weekend resting, sleeping loads and eating and this week I've felt pretty good. I pulled a 270 deadlift for a PR of 5 lbs today so pretty excited about that. My bench is feeling lots easier too. Will be interesting to see where this takes me by the end of the 9 weeks.

JNick77

Finished up week three of the Cube today. Things are going very well. I had some crazy fatigue those first two weeks. I'm not really sure what the big difference was because it kinda made me feel like I had just started working out. Last week I felt like crap, was missing alot of my lifts and really frustrated. I spent the weekend resting, sleeping loads and eating and this week I've felt pretty good. I pulled a 270 deadlift for a PR of 5 lbs today so pretty excited about that. My bench is feeling lots easier too. Will be interesting to see where this takes me by the end of the 9 weeks.

Very cool. What were you doing prior to the Cube?

ilovedeadlifts

Adjusting to the volume can definitely be a little rough.

@JNick, sounds like a decent gym bro. Tire flipping is pretty fun for conditioning.
Is the prowler only available for use at certain times?

JNick77

Adjusting to the volume can definitely be a little rough.

@JNick, sounds like a decent gym bro. Tire flipping is pretty fun for conditioning.
Is the prowler only available for use at certain times?

It must be only available at certain times. I haven't been there during the day except to sign-up.

I don't know what this week is going to look like. My allergies are actually worse this week and I feel exhausted as a result. I may end-up skipping this week and starting week 1 over next week if I feel better. FML...

ilovedeadlifts

eat some claritin and do what you can bro.
I suffer from nasty allergies every year, it can definitely ruin some training sessions.

I hope you feel better man.

JNick77

Saturday I finally felt good enough to get in the gym and I could tell that my allergies and being away from the weight room took a small toll on my strength. I did my Should circuit that I mentioned above and it was awesome and very tiring. I wasn't certain of all my weights so I adjusted a little as I went along. I ended-up doing

A1. Push Press for 2-3 reps @ 160lbs
A2. OHP for 4-6 reps @ 115lbs (how sad is that? the first is taxing but that is still sad on my part)
A3. DB OHP for 8-10reps @ 35lbs each (sad...)
A4. Lateral Delt Raises for 10-12 reps at 15lbs each

I did this circuit 4 times and my shoulders were pretty worn out afterwards. I did some other work afterwards and it felt good, just weak. Tomorrow I'm going to restart my Cube training with Week 1 again, hopefully I didn't lose too much strength.

ilovedeadlifts

Good luck with the restart. I doubt you lost any strength in all honesty.

I'm starting week 2 today. Speed pulls!

JNick77

Good luck with the restart. I doubt you lost any strength in all honesty.

I'm starting week 2 today. Speed pulls!

Nice! Can't wait for a session of speed pulls. I loved doing DE DL's while on Westside.

JNick77

Today was day 1 of me starting with the Cube method, again, and it went well but my allergies and week or so off from training definitely took something out of me. Day 1 was RE deadlifting and the 2 sets of 3 reps at 80% or whatever it is felt a little heavier than normal but I finish all reps for both sets. It felt really good to be back in the gym lifting heavy **** again that's for sure, now I just need to keep chugging through this even though I'm still dealing with some crazy *kitten* allergies.

I'm also really adding some better ab focus with my sessions. I picked-up some good ideas when I did that Boot Camp program. At the end of today's session I did 50 consecutive Sprinter Situps and then 50 consecutive Scissor Kicks. It's not as easy as it sounds. I've also incorporated V-Situps, Butterfly situps, Hip Raises, and good ole Hanging Leg raises but considerably more volume. I have noticed a difference in my ab's and my diet hasn't been the best lately either.

@ILDL: How was your speed pull session?

JNick77

F*&K! Is how I'm starting off this post.

Today was ME Bench day and it was bad. Between my allergies, missing all last week, and pills I'm on this workout was so bad, I felt so damn weak. Anti-biotics must take something out of you because I can't figure out what else it could be.

I hit my 5 sets of 2 for the main lift but it felt heavy today. I missed the 15 reps on my 2nd bench exercise and wasn't happy about that by any means. I was f'in exhausted, like falling over exhausted, by the end of the workout but I feel I still had a decent session, no conditioning afterwards but I did get some ab work in. I'm not happy with the session but I can at least say I got after it and gave it my best.