Any "Old School" gamers out there?
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:bigsmile: God, how I miss the good old days when we would have these geeky philosophical debates about paladins, drow, and pantheons. I'm itchin' to go dig the dice bag out of the closet!
I absolutely could not get interested in a game that was nothing more than going in to a cave and killing monsters. I think that is all well and good but you also have to have the debates. You have to have to conversations about "why" we are in the cave. Why are we killing the monsters and saying "we are adventurers" doesn't cut it for me. In my games the most common enemies are other humans and elves and dwarves and the like. The simple races and classes from the player's handbook is enough to build an exciting and compelling story.
You could have one lawful good character fighting to defend his family and another lawful good character on a mission to bring one of his sons to see the king for what is obviously a suicide mission. Right there you have all fodder you need for a turbulent debate about the fathers duty to his son, the son's duty to his king and the king's agent obligated to complete his mission. I feel that all too often people get hung up on all the magical creature and as a result they become over used and the worst possibility is that they become common and expected.
The last thing a DM wants to hear is something like "Oh (yawn) its just another Beholder." if you have gotten to that point you have done something wrong. One of my favorite things I have going right now is I have the group terrified of a level 5 half elven female because they don't know who she is or what she is doing. All they know is that she has been seen in a few places that make her suspicious. You show the group situations and let them fill in the blanks with their assumptions.
I completely agree. The best campaigns were the ones where we had a real purpose and we had to THINK! The best one we ever ran the group ran a crime syndicate (needless to say we were not paladins). We kept records, ran all sorts of illegal enterprises and had to stay ahead of the guard. When we finally finished I had at leat a dozen notebooks and ledgers. It was so intense. That's the kind of adventure I really miss.
My friend and I are actually setting up a database which will contain all of the information about the characters in it. Then if you have a stat changed either permanently or temporarily you can just hit one button and the change will be made and it will automatically change everything as a result. For example if you were hit with a ray of enfeeblement and your strength suddenly became too low for you to move in your armor we would know immediately. Even if you did not have armor on your chance to hit would change accordingly as well.
We will have a very fast and easy way of know how much gold you have and how much was spent on what thing. It will be much easier for everyone to actually have property in the game.
If a mage or a cleric were to cast a spell you can just hit one button and the PDF of the player's hand book will open and take you directly to that spell in the book should you have to check on something regarding that spell.
That same thing will be true for feats and combat mechanics.
If someone were to ask how do I break the grapple. You would be able to hit the word grapple as a link and it will take you right to the grapple mechanic in the book.
I envision a world where the table top gamers would all be sitting around the table will a bunch of ipads and/or laptops. We would not longer be looking for a mechanical pencil that actually has lead left in it. There wouldn't have to be actual dice bags. All the dice could be rolled digitally. No more having to lug around a bunch of books. All the books would be loaded on to the ipads or the laptops in PDF they would take up less space and be faster to reference. This would leave more room on the table for the actual game grid and the figures. The character sheets could be backed up on the web and if someone forgot their character sheets we would simply pull it off the net and have a fresh one ready to go.0 -
My friend and I are actually setting up a database which will contain all of the information about the characters in it. Then if you have a stat changed either permanently or temporarily you can just hit one button and the change will be made and it will automatically change everything as a result. For example if you were hit with a ray of enfeeblement and your strength suddenly became too low for you to move in your armor we would know immediately. Even if you did not have armor on your chance to hit would change accordingly as well.
We will have a very fast and easy way of know how much gold you have and how much was spent on what thing. It will be much easier for everyone to actually have property in the game.
If a mage or a cleric were to cast a spell you can just hit one button and the PDF of the player's hand book will open and take you directly to that spell in the book should you have to check on something regarding that spell.
That same thing will be true for feats and combat mechanics.
If someone were to ask how do I break the grapple. You would be able to hit the word grapple as a link and it will take you right to the grapple mechanic in the book.
I envision a world where the table top gamers would all be sitting around the table will a bunch of ipads and/or laptops. We would not longer be looking for a mechanical pencil that actually has lead left in it. There wouldn't have to be actual dice bags. All the dice could be rolled digitally. No more having to lug around a bunch of books. All the books would be loaded on to the ipads or the laptops in PDF they would take up less space and be faster to reference. This would leave more room on the table for the actual game grid and the figures. The character sheets could be backed up on the web and if someone forgot their character sheets we would simply pull it off the net and have a fresh one ready to go.
Brilliant!!!!!:drinker:0 -
that is really cool! let me know how it goes.....
right now we kinda run a hybrid of the too we have all the pdfs and a good old book
I think there will still always be something to flipping pages and rolling dice.... all the tech can help out but part of the fun is the "old school" Id never want generated rolls I like lady luck not mistress random lol0 -
that is really cool! let me know how it goes.....
right now we kinda run a hybrid of the too we have all the pdfs and a good old book
I think there will still always be something to flipping pages and rolling dice.... all the tech can help out but part of the fun is the "old school" Id never want generated rolls I like lady luck not mistress random lol
I guess if you have your book marked with the appropriate pages so you can reference fast enough. The main goal here is to streamline the physical space in the room and keep the game moving forward as smoothly as possible. If you end up in an epic battle and a rules question pops up and nobody knows the answer all the action is basically paused until that question is resolved. At that point I think flipping the pages loses its charm.
While digital dice does remove the need for each player to have access to a flat surface and it would also make it much faster to roll a dies of the correct size and number since you can just type it in I can see some players preferring to roll the regular dies. What I think will happen is the digital option will simply be seen as another set of dies. This means that if players have a lot of luck rolling the digital dice then they will do it. If their superstition gets in the way then they won't.
If you end up as a player who prefers regular dice to the digital ones for what ever reason. Then I as DM would say ok just make sure that you have the dice common to your character ready to go on your initiative. If you are searching for more d6 because you need 10 of them and you can't bring them together and you are slowing down the game I am going to wonder if it is really worth it since you could just type a 10 next the the d6 row and press roll. You can even have it total them all up for you.0 -
yea I see the advantage there for sure.... we have had as much as a 30 dice spell cast during ritual magic so I agree to that.... but just your typical to hit or not, im all about the roll lol0
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yea I see the advantage there for sure.... we have had as much as a 30 dice spell cast during ritual magic so I agree to that.... but just your typical to hit or not, im all about the roll lol
I can see that. If you are just rolling to hit that is 1d20. If each player has their own d20 and we don't have to search for it we still maintain the ability to keep the game moving along at a nice pace. So in that case I would say it is irrelevant which one you do. If you press the button on you ipad or toss out the d20 you will still have a random result.
If you actually have a ritual spell that obligates a roll of 30 dice I am going to drop my dm hammer and say "use the ipad/laptop! I have decreed it to be so!"0 -
hahaha thats awesome, I love it when players keep whining about something or arguing and the DM just steps up and shuts it down. like I said my group is all newbies except me and GM, so many times they will argue small issues with him until he has to drop the omnipotent hammer and remind everyone he is the world, he is the rules just deal with it0
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hahaha thats awesome, I love it when players keep whining about something or arguing and the DM just steps up and shuts it down. like I said my group is all newbies except me and GM, so many times they will argue small issues with him until he has to drop the omnipotent hammer and remind everyone he is the world, he is the rules just deal with it
Some times it has to be done. I am personally of the opinion that the DM should have a reason for doing it every time and that reason should supported by logic. If a DM simply decided to go around making insane declarations the players won't enjoy the game and as a result it will collapse. If the DM is too accommodating it can get to the point where the players are basically running the game. There is nothing wrong with putting something to a vote every now and again but there is something wrong with a player actually dictating the actions of one of your NPC's or something like that. And at no point should the players ever forget that the vote is a formality and the DM will make the final decision.0 -
I started playing Basic D&D in junior high and quickly moved to AD&D. For a long time I had the original version of D&D and Expert D&D in the box with their modules (Keep On The Borderlands and Isle of Dread) as well as original additions of the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monster Manual, Fiend Folio, etc etc. Mom gave them all away in a yard sale when i was away in college along with all my mid to late-70s baseball cards. I'm still bitter about that.
If you guys are interested in starting games with your old crews, look into NeverWinter Nights. There are all kinds of modules for it and you can build your own from scratch. A lot of the classic old modules like Tomb of Horrors have been recreated. Pretty sure you can log in as DM and have your players log in as players and run the game online.
Never done it but know some guys who still do.
We had a fun game in college where we really tried to keep in character. I had a drow who was an archery master. One of my buddies had a Cavalier who would ride off to charge anyone who was attacking the innocent. We were hiding to ambush some bad guys and the cavalier hears some damsel in distress and hands the DM a note that I know says something along the lines of "I'm going to save the girl." I quickly hand the DM another note and he announces. The cavalier breaks cover and charges in the direction of the damsel in distress and is shocked to find himself sailing through the air and taking 2d6 of damage when bosotnwolf shoots his horse out from under him."
Good times!
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I started playing Basic D&D in junior high and quickly moved to AD&D. For a long time I had the original version of D&D and Expert D&D in the box with their modules (Keep On The Borderlands and Isle of Dread) as well as original additions of the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monster Manual, Fiend Folio, etc etc. Mom gave them all away in a yard sale when i was away in college along with all my mid to late-70s baseball cards. I'm still bitter about that.
If you guys are interested in starting games with your old crews, look into NeverWinter Nights. There are all kinds of modules for it and you can build your own from scratch. A lot of the classic old modules like Tomb of Horrors have been recreated. Pretty sure you can log in as DM and have your players log in as players and run the game online.
Never done it but know some guys who still do.
We had a fun game in college where we really tried to keep in character. I had a drow who was an archery master. One of my buddies had a Cavalier who would ride off to charge anyone who was attacking the innocent. We were hiding to ambush some bad guys and the cavalier hears some damsel in distress and hands the DM a note that I know says something along the lines of "I'm going to save the girl." I quickly hand the DM another note and he announces. The cavalier breaks cover and charges in the direction of the damsel in distress and is shocked to find himself sailing through the air and taking 2d6 of damage when bosotnwolf shoots his horse out from under him."
Good times!
Correct me if I am wrong but if he left his hiding place to go save the damsel the ambush is already lost. Now you don't have anyone trying to the damsel and the cover is broken. I would think it better to just go ahead with the attack even if it was ahead of schedule since the cavalier has already made his move. Perhaps my understanding of the situation is incomplete.0 -
Tonight is my dungeons and dragons night!!! I have been looking forward to it. In the last game session they actually figured who was responsible for a murder they were investigating. They just caught up with her and they wanted to catch her alive to ask her questions which I thought was actually going to happen but the ranger in the group shot at her three time in one round thinking only one or two shots would hit but he hit all three times and one was a critical hit. He rolled high damage on all three hits and the sudden spike in damage dropped her health below negative 10. I am interested in seeing how they proceed now since they can't talk to her about her motive.0
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I still play. Started when I was 18, still going at 32. My wife is even starting to get into it. I don't have as much time as I did in the past (becoming a parent will do that to you), but my friends and I still find the time to squeeze in a game of Shadowrun or Star Wars here and there.
**Old School Cred Alert**-- When I say "Star Wars", I mean the old (original) D6 West End version. REPRESENT.0 -
I have not been able to get my wife interested in playing with me but I have been able to get her to accept the fact that there will be a monthly D&D game at the house. She was resistant to that at first but now she almost looks forward to it. She uses those nights to plan things I don't enjoy doing.
I know as a rule we are supposed to say that the older stuff is always better but when it comes to the star wars rpg I feel they really improved it. I thought it was absolute insanity that anyone who plays a scoundrel has to be in debt to a hut. Why would they balance the classes around that? Why would they manhandle every single character history in such a way?
I like the d20 star wars system better but I still feel that in both systems playing as a Jedi is kind of unbalanced. The DM would have to hold them to a very high standard of behavior in much the same way as the paladin but most DM's that I have played with just don't. I have seen Jedi commit acts of violence and intimidation that I know should warrant dark side points and the DM will just let it go.
I also reject the concept of the greater good being best served by a dispassionate violence. I think that the cause of good is best served by the presence of those traits that are noble and good and not the absence of passion. While it is true that anger and hatred are passionate emotions and if left unchecked they can be very destructive. It is simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater to bar yourself from all passionate emotions.0 -
Def an "old school" gamer here. Been playing RPG's for last 25 years. I've been fortunate to have maintained my "core" group for the last 10 years and we try to play every other weekend. As a matter of fact, we'll be playing Shadowrun tomorrow night.
We used to play lots of DnD, but the direction the game has gone has turned most of our group off from it. The main ones that usually make the rotation are Shadowrun, Dragon Age, Mutants and Masterminds, Cthulu, and a rare occurrence of WoD. Lately there has been a "sub-group" formed that plays a lot of board games now. Not those kinda board games, but Arkham Horror, Catan, Descent, Relic, Wiz-War, and just recently X-Wing miniatures game.
Our "sessions" if you will, used to be fueled by endless supplies of Pizza and Mountain Dew, would start at 6 or 7pm and end around 3am. Now we start around 2 or 3, and are wrapping up by 11 or midnight. Pizza and Dew has been replaced with slightly healthier food and water (although on game nights i still drink beer).
if there is a virtual MFP game that develops, i would be interested. Although i'm voting NOT IT! for running it. hehe. i just ran the game for the last 2 years with my group and i need a break!0 -
I know as a rule we are supposed to say that the older stuff is always better but when it comes to the star wars rpg I feel they really improved it. I thought it was absolute insanity that anyone who plays a scoundrel has to be in debt to a hut. Why would they balance the classes around that? Why would they manhandle every single character history in such a way?
I like the d20 star wars system better but I still feel that in both systems playing as a Jedi is kind of unbalanced. The DM would have to hold them to a very high standard of behavior in much the same way as the paladin but most DM's that I have played with just don't. I have seen Jedi commit acts of violence and intimidation that I know should warrant dark side points and the DM will just let it go.
I don't think there's that much of a discrepency (sp?) between the two SW systems; it just depends on what you want. Fast and loose gameplay, or a more in-depth system? it's personal preference. A deep storytelling experience can exist in both.
As far as the classes being manhandled unbalanced...well, rules can change. I think that slavish dedication to the books and rules-lawyering is why a lot of people shy away from tabletop games, and part of the reason why they get a bad rap in general. If you don't like a rule, change it to fit your group. If a DM is making poor decisions, then that's his/her fault, not the game's.
Anyway, while we may disagree on this particular point, I tip my hat to you and all the others responding here; y'all seem like some true RPG'ers. It makes me happy to see some of my favorite games mentioned; particularly Call of Cthulhu and D&D. 0 -
I am willing to change a rule if it needs to happen. I am very careful about every time I do it. I am very careful to not create an imbalance. It is so easy to do. For that reason I like to have a system that does not obligate me to go through and clean up things I consider detrimental and/or unnecessary. I feel that with the newer d20 system I have had to do far less of that.
Either way I do appreciate that you are at least still helping to keep the table top tradition alive and I completely agree with this statement that you made.
" If a DM is making poor decisions, then that's his/her fault, not the game's."
I think that players and DM's are the only ones capable of ruining a game. If I were given any rule system I would either discard it, edit it, or run with it. I have a lot of experience with running games. I have actually managed to successfully run a complete campaign without even knowing how the combat mechanics worked. The vast majority of the enjoyment of the game comes from the interactions that people have and the story itself. If you simply present circumstances that are reasonable to the situation then you will find that the majority of players will make appropriate actions and as a result the bulk of the story will actually write itself.0 -
Def an "old school" gamer here. Been playing RPG's for last 25 years. I've been fortunate to have maintained my "core" group for the last 10 years and we try to play every other weekend. As a matter of fact, we'll be playing Shadowrun tomorrow night.
We used to play lots of DnD, but the direction the game has gone has turned most of our group off from it. The main ones that usually make the rotation are Shadowrun, Dragon Age, Mutants and Masterminds, Cthulu, and a rare occurrence of WoD. Lately there has been a "sub-group" formed that plays a lot of board games now. Not those kinda board games, but Arkham Horror, Catan, Descent, Relic, Wiz-War, and just recently X-Wing miniatures game.
Our "sessions" if you will, used to be fueled by endless supplies of Pizza and Mountain Dew, would start at 6 or 7pm and end around 3am. Now we start around 2 or 3, and are wrapping up by 11 or midnight. Pizza and Dew has been replaced with slightly healthier food and water (although on game nights i still drink beer).
if there is a virtual MFP game that develops, i would be interested. Although i'm voting NOT IT! for running it. hehe. i just ran the game for the last 2 years with my group and i need a break!
It sounds like you know how a gaming session is designed to be. Long run times and easy to make and serve food so it won't interrupt the flow of the game. We have recently started playing Catan on nights where everyone can't make it. I love that game.
WoD is a great example of a game where I impose a lot of changes. I basically run that game system with my own story line. I do this mainly because it prevents a gamer from being able to predict too much without leaving them completely in the dark either. I want them to be able to make reasonable predictions but I don't want them to necessarily know the name of my main villain in game session one either.
I have been wrestling with the idea of running a MFP virtual game on here for a while. I have a few ideas about how it could be done.
Create a Group and Name it after the campaign
Create a Sticky Thread for the initial character sheets.
Description of Situations could also be handled in another thread.
People could handle declaring actions in private messages to the DM.
Rather than rolling for stats they would be created by using a pool of 78 points which you would divide across your 6 stats as you choose.
Where I run in to a real issue would be if a combat ever broke out. Even if I used an honor system where people could roll and just tell me what they got. That would make a single combat take months.
There are a ton of variables that would have to be ironed out in order to make the game viable.0 -
Def an "old school" gamer here. Been playing RPG's for last 25 years. I've been fortunate to have maintained my "core" group for the last 10 years and we try to play every other weekend. As a matter of fact, we'll be playing Shadowrun tomorrow night.
We used to play lots of DnD, but the direction the game has gone has turned most of our group off from it. The main ones that usually make the rotation are Shadowrun, Dragon Age, Mutants and Masterminds, Cthulu, and a rare occurrence of WoD. Lately there has been a "sub-group" formed that plays a lot of board games now. Not those kinda board games, but Arkham Horror, Catan, Descent, Relic, Wiz-War, and just recently X-Wing miniatures game.
Our "sessions" if you will, used to be fueled by endless supplies of Pizza and Mountain Dew, would start at 6 or 7pm and end around 3am. Now we start around 2 or 3, and are wrapping up by 11 or midnight. Pizza and Dew has been replaced with slightly healthier food and water (although on game nights i still drink beer).
if there is a virtual MFP game that develops, i would be interested. Although i'm voting NOT IT! for running it. hehe. i just ran the game for the last 2 years with my group and i need a break!
It sounds like you know how a gaming session is designed to be. Long run times and easy to make and serve food so it won't interrupt the flow of the game. We have recently started playing Catan on nights where everyone can't make it. I love that game.
WoD is a great example of a game where I impose a lot of changes. I basically run that game system with my own story line. I do this mainly because it prevents a gamer from being able to predict too much without leaving them completely in the dark either. I want them to be able to make reasonable predictions but I don't want them to necessarily know the name of my main villain in game session one either.
I have been wrestling with the idea of running a MFP virtual game on here for a while. I have a few ideas about how it could be done.
Create a Group and Name it after the campaign
Create a Sticky Thread for the initial character sheets.
Description of Situations could also be handled in another thread.
People could handle declaring actions in private messages to the DM.
Rather than rolling for stats they would be created by using a pool of 78 points which you would divide across your 6 stats as you choose.
Where I run in to a real issue would be if a combat ever broke out. Even if I used an honor system where people could roll and just tell me what they got. That would make a single combat take months.
There are a ton of variables that would have to be ironed out in order to make the game viable.
Yeah...nothing better to do on a Saturday then having a marathon of gaming.
Almost all of the games that are run with our group are "homebrew", with a few exceptions. I think they are better...which is not to say that pre-mades are bad, but if given the choice of pre-made vs. homemade, i'll pick homemade every time. Maybe that's just the GM in me talking?
The easiest way to get around dice rolling is when a dice roll is required, you as the GM generate about 100 dice rolls ahead of time then just pick them from the list. Cross em off as you go. That way it's much quicker.
Player: GM, i would like to do this.
GM: Ok, (grabs the next "roll" from the list) You attempt to that, but fail. take 3 damage. (clearly the next number in the list caused a failure).
Player: Ouch...i won't be trying that again.0 -
I am very respectful to anyone who takes on the mantel of responsibility that is being a DM. I will admit however, that if a person is reading out of a module it just bugs me. I see modules as training wheels. I can play a game where the DM is using a module and I will do all I can to be a positive contribution to the team. I would expect over time for the module to end and for the DM to be able to keep the game going. There just comes a time when the training wheels have to come off and when you get to my level you can't imagine actually putting them back on. I may borrow an aspect of a module that I think is well done like a villain for example but I will put my own spin on everything in my world. I will describe my own scenarios and I will know where I am taking the story.0
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I am very respectful to anyone who takes on the mantel of responsibility that is being a DM. I will admit however, that if a person is reading out of a module it just bugs me. I see modules as training wheels. I can play a game where the DM is using a module and I will do all I can to be a positive contribution to the team. I would expect over time for the module to end and for the DM to be able to keep the game going. There just comes a time when the training wheels have to come off and when you get to my level you can't imagine actually putting them back on. I may borrow an aspect of a module that I think is well done like a villain for example but I will put my own spin on everything in my world. I will describe my own scenarios and I will know where I am taking the story.
I can't argue with that. Modules have their place, but when it comes down to it i just prefer to write my own stuff.0
