RMR :(
ElizabethKalmbach
Posts: 1,415 Member
My RMR test came back at 663 the first time and 677 the second time. The ESTIMATE for a 5'5 woman at 152 lbs is above 1250... No wonder I'm having problems eating 2300 calories per day. *sigh* I think I need to see an endocrinologist or something. My thyroid function is corrected with levothyroxine and I test in the normal range with the correction I have now, but my RMR is not fixed. At All.
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My RMR test came back at 663 the first time and 677 the second time. The ESTIMATE for a 5'5 woman at 152 lbs is above 1250... No wonder I'm having problems eating 2300 calories per day. *sigh* I think I need to see an endocrinologist or something. My thyroid function is corrected with levothyroxine and I test in the normal range with the correction I have now, but my RMR is not fixed. At All.
Do you know what your bodyfat % is?
Decent estimate within 5%? I'd say couple of measurement methods, skinfold in the hands of skilled person, even a body fat scale used at the correct time.
Avg them all together.
Why?
Because that RMR may not be that awfully low depending on your real LBM.
Done a lot of yo-yo dieting through the years? That can continually cause muscle mass loss each time, such that you have so little, a small RMR and BMR may not be actually that far off.
Now, it is still way lower, because you'd have to be 88.8% body fat to have a BMR of 537 and RMR of 670.
So the solution isn't to eat more at level average person your age, weight, height would have, but correctly for you and your amount of LBM.
The other solution is then to try to gain LBM and muscle mass if that is actually what is much lower than average.
Now, that is indeed extremely low, and is likely still be suppressed even for amount of LBM you do have.
How long have you been eating more than bare minimum?
What levels for how long?
Much like some people can be in such a down state for so long they actually cause chemical imbalances and then become depressed, and now can't get back out of it - you may have caused your self to get to point it'll be hard to get out of it without those medicines being changed, and doing good workout and eating level.
I'd suggest good BodPod measurement of bodyfat%, or as mentioned above, several different methods avg together. Get that LBM estimate, get the BMR with it, and eat correctly for that level of LBM.
Then add strength training and lose any cardio.
How much cardio do you do BTW?
Any endurance level of long workouts?0 -
Body fat % is 27.7 as measured by both caliper and one of those fancy electronic scales. Measuring tape results are around 27% according to the navy calculator.
I never purposefully restrict my calories below 1200 net, but I have been having trouble with my appetite. On average, however, I seem to be netting about 1400-1700 calories per day. I only even bothered to start looking into what I was eating last September and didn't bother counting any calories at all until I stopped losing weight in December. The only change I made to start losing weight was to stop eating processed foods. Because of my thyroid disease, when I eat below 1200 calories I tend to notice a lot of other symptoms cropping up because T4-T3 conversion slows and I'm alert to that. Thus, I'm pretty sure that the damage isn't from dieting.
I have called my doctor to request a test for Addison's disease. It's rare, but my overnight google-fit seems to indicate that my symptoms overlap a fair bit with Schmidt's Syndrom (Addisons and Hashimotos appearing together.). I'll keep you posted if/when I can get further testing done.0 -
Body fat % is 27.7 as measured by both caliper and one of those fancy electronic scales. Measuring tape results are around 27% according to the navy calculator.
I never purposefully restrict my calories below 1200 net, but I have been having trouble with my appetite. On average, however, I seem to be netting about 1400-1700 calories per day. I only even bothered to start looking into what I was eating last September and didn't bother counting any calories at all until I stopped losing weight in December. The only change I made to start losing weight was to stop eating processed foods. Because of my thyroid disease, when I eat below 1200 calories I tend to notice a lot of other symptoms cropping up because T4-T3 conversion slows and I'm alert to that. Thus, I'm pretty sure that the damage isn't from dieting.
I have called my doctor to request a test for Addison's disease. It's rare, but my overnight google-fit seems to indicate that my symptoms overlap a fair bit with Schmidt's Syndrom (Addisons and Hashimotos appearing together.). I'll keep you posted if/when I can get further testing done.
Elizabeth, I also got very low RMR results today. My RMR is 878 when it should be between 1600-1900. Trying to plan the next step for myself right now. I've read that you can have a low RMR if you have thyroid problems. So perhaps that is why yours is low. Mine is probably just low because I killed my metabolism several times over!0 -
Your thyroid can cause RMR problems if it is UNTREATED, but I just had my levels checked two weeks ago, and I am medicated to the normal range, meaning that my RMR should have normalized if that was the source of the problem. It is possible that I am having thyroid complications, but I won't know until I can get more testing done, I suppose.0
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May I ask the time period between the first and second testing?My RMR test came back at 663 the first time and 677 the second time. The ESTIMATE for a 5'5 woman at 152 lbs is above 1250... No wonder I'm having problems eating 2300 calories per day. *sigh* I think I need to see an endocrinologist or something. My thyroid function is corrected with levothyroxine and I test in the normal range with the correction I have now, but my RMR is not fixed. At All.0 -
Body fat % is 27.7 as measured by both caliper and one of those fancy electronic scales. Measuring tape results are around 27% according to the navy calculator.
I never purposefully restrict my calories below 1200 net, but I have been having trouble with my appetite. On average, however, I seem to be netting about 1400-1700 calories per day. I only even bothered to start looking into what I was eating last September and didn't bother counting any calories at all until I stopped losing weight in December. The only change I made to start losing weight was to stop eating processed foods. Because of my thyroid disease, when I eat below 1200 calories I tend to notice a lot of other symptoms cropping up because T4-T3 conversion slows and I'm alert to that. Thus, I'm pretty sure that the damage isn't from dieting.
I have called my doctor to request a test for Addison's disease. It's rare, but my overnight google-fit seems to indicate that my symptoms overlap a fair bit with Schmidt's Syndrom (Addisons and Hashimotos appearing together.). I'll keep you posted if/when I can get further testing done.
So calculated Cunningham RMR based on LBM would be 1607, with Katch BMR of 1457.
Since you are half that, I'm going to suggest you check the provider of the service.
Those metabolic carts must be calibrated correctly on a cycle.
They should have in their logs when it was last calibrated, you may have been at the end of the cycle and least accurate chance.
The incorrect prep you could do would tend to inflate values, like eating too close to the test or hard workout day before - so I doubt that is it.
So either massive suppression, or incorrect test - which is not impossible and more likely.
You didn't hyperventilate or breath oddly, right?0 -
10 minutes. They were sure that there was a leak in the mask the first time.0
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10 minutes. They were sure that there was a leak in the mask the first time.
Well, leaky mask is for sure a bad thing. And calls to question the tech's ability to catch other things if the test was done before a leak was noticed.
Because measuring the amount of CO2 is equally as bad, and that's where the calibration comes in to play. Nothing to do with the mask, totally the machine.
Also confirm the weight on your printout is correct.0 -
Both tests gave consistent results (IE- no leak) and all other stats are correct on the printout. They're running calibration tests on other people this week and want me to come back in for free again next week. In the mean time, I've set up an appointment with my doctor to discuss all my other irregularities.0
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Your thyroid can cause RMR problems if it is UNTREATED, but I just had my levels checked two weeks ago, and I am medicated to the normal range, meaning that my RMR should have normalized if that was the source of the problem. It is possible that I am having thyroid complications, but I won't know until I can get more testing done, I suppose.
My thyroid levels are normal, BUT I do have half of a thyroid gland. So...maybe that could affect it, but I doubt it. The only other "bad" thing I have blood work wise is incredibly low Vitamin D levels. That's it!0 -
"So calculated Cunningham RMR based on LBM would be 1607, with Katch BMR of 1457.
Since you are half that, I'm going to suggest you check the provider of the service.
Those metabolic carts must be calibrated correctly on a cycle.
They should have in their logs when it was last calibrated, you may have been at the end of the cycle and least accurate chance.
The incorrect prep you could do would tend to inflate values, like eating too close to the test or hard workout day before - so I doubt that is it.
So either massive suppression, or incorrect test - which is not impossible and more likely.
You didn't hyperventilate or breath oddly, right?"
During the test, they actually told me to breathe faster a couple of times. I don't really breathe that fast when I sleep, as far as I know, but I guess they were watching the readings and getting concerned. I kept having to slow my breathing down because I felt like I was hyperventilating.
They're checking the calibration on the machine and having me back again (free) to re-run the test next week.
The reason I don't think the test is necessarily WRONG, and the reason I paid to have it done in the first place is that I suspect something else may be wrong with me. My blood pressure is about 90/45 with excessive caffeine use and adderall. Without, it drops to 70/35 and I faint when I try to stand up. My heart rate is 88-95 at rest, despite not being terribly over weight or out of shape. Moderate cardio takes my heart rate up to 177, where I am able to sustain for 35 minutes without being freaked out by the speed (unlike the machine I'm using.) I am freezing all the time when my husband and child are not. I have no appetite, I crave salt, I am depressed and have trouble concentrating, and unless I work out to the point of exhaustion, I cannot sleep. Even when I do sleep, it is very fragmented. I am exhausted all the time, even though I can't sleep. I had been seeing a psychiatrist for the depression, but I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't hormonal and related to all the other physical problems I've been noticing since I started losing weight.
I have a doctor's appointment on the 30th to complain officially and ask for more tests.0 -
I'm not going to speculate on what's wrong. I just wanted to de-lurk and say that this must be incredibly frustrating as well as a touch scary to be going through this. It's no fun when you know something is wrong, but no one can tell you what it is. Hopefully you can get some answers soon. And make sure you update us...0
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During the test, they actually told me to breathe faster a couple of times. I don't really breathe that fast when I sleep, as far as I know, but I guess they were watching the readings and getting concerned. I kept having to slow my breathing down because I felt like I was hyperventilating.
They're checking the calibration on the machine and having me back again (free) to re-run the test next week.
The reason I don't think the test is necessarily WRONG, and the reason I paid to have it done in the first place is that I suspect something else may be wrong with me. My blood pressure is about 90/45 with excessive caffeine use and adderall. Without, it drops to 70/35 and I faint when I try to stand up. My heart rate is 88-95 at rest, despite not being terribly over weight or out of shape. Moderate cardio takes my heart rate up to 177, where I am able to sustain for 35 minutes without being freaked out by the speed (unlike the machine I'm using.) I am freezing all the time when my husband and child are not. I have no appetite, I crave salt, I am depressed and have trouble concentrating, and unless I work out to the point of exhaustion, I cannot sleep. Even when I do sleep, it is very fragmented. I am exhausted all the time, even though I can't sleep. I had been seeing a psychiatrist for the depression, but I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't hormonal and related to all the other physical problems I've been noticing since I started losing weight.
I have a doctor's appointment on the 30th to complain officially and ask for more tests.
Oh, those are some messed up results. But good decision with trying to eat more, no need adding messed up hormones from undereating as part of the mix.
And that and the other symptoms will hopefully give Dr some help in troubleshooting what's up.
Normally if very fit, the restingHR would be extremely low to go along with low BP. But you are missing that.
Otherwise I'd suggest some of the lowering is due to endurance type cardio, but that may not be the case.
I'd also suggest training only the high anaerobic level is not good for you either, need aerobic training too.
I'd say then eat at what estimated Katch BMR could be daily, no variance - 1450.
Lift heavy as you can for a good workout.
Only cardio is walking up to 4 mph on non-lifting days. You don't need a huge TDEE right now by lots of cardio, but increased LBM usually helps anything.0 -
I found an interesting article on the interwebs, and I intend to ask my doctor about it:
http://anthonycolpo.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-bad-for-your-thyroid/
It's a very long read, but having read a good bit about leptin response, rT3 and T3 in the last few weeks, this makes sense to me. I'm keeping my calories close to net 1800 or above and gradually trying to tweak my carbs higher by about 10g/week to support all the activity I'm doing. I intend to ask the doctor to check my rT3, T3 and cortisol levels just to see if I'm on the right track with what I'm doing to try and fix my metabolism.0 -
I'm in a similar situation...gaining weight and getting flabby while in a deficit and working out very well.
I'm having my RMR tested on Monday morning and I'm expecting it to be very low. Two doctors and two panels of bloodwork say my endocrine/metabolic/hormone/liver functions are all within a normal range, though my overall thyroid function is on the low end of normal.
Wish me luck, and good thoughts to everyone going through this. It sucks.0 -
I'm in a similar situation...gaining weight and getting flabby while in a deficit and working out very well.
I'm having my RMR tested on Monday morning and I'm expecting it to be very low. Two doctors and two panels of bloodwork say my endocrine/metabolic/hormone/liver functions are all within a normal range, though my overall thyroid function is on the low end of normal.
Wish me luck, and good thoughts to everyone going through this. It sucks.
Just to mentally get around the effects, you are not in a deficit. Not if gaining more than water weight.
Sorry about partial bad news, that part can probably be improved.0 -
I'm in a similar situation...gaining weight and getting flabby while in a deficit and working out very well.
I'm having my RMR tested on Monday morning and I'm expecting it to be very low. Two doctors and two panels of bloodwork say my endocrine/metabolic/hormone/liver functions are all within a normal range, though my overall thyroid function is on the low end of normal.
Wish me luck, and good thoughts to everyone going through this. It sucks.
Just to mentally get around the effects, you are not in a deficit. Not if gaining more than water weight.
Sorry about partial bad news, that part can probably be improved.
On paper and according to every BMR calculator I've seen, it's a deficit. But those calculators assume that my metabolism is normal, and I think at this point it almost certainly isn't. We'll see what the test says on Monday and go from there.0 -
What I am finding interesting, is that even eating about 1800 calories a day, I am not really gaining much weight. Even with an activity multiplier of 1.7 with my RMR at 670, my TDEE is supposed to be 1200. I'm not eating that. I'm netting about 1800 because I'm forcing myself to eat (stupid nausea) in order to continue supporting my desired activity level.
I'm guessing that what's happening is that my fidget rate is really up there (I bounce my legs and twitch my arms all day to stay warm and walk a lot to circulate my blood.) to maintain my body temperature. So effectively, even though my RMR is really low, I'm still maybe burning the calories I should? I think that if I switch the emphasis of my diet from protein/fat to carbs, I may be able to eat more, calories. We'll see. I had whole grain pasta for breakfast this morning. It was delicious and cut my nausea some, but then I wasn't hungry again at lunch time and didn't eat anything until mid afternoon. :P
I am my own experiment.0 -
My RMR came in at 1339.
Female, 37, 5'6", 125.4 lbs.
That is WAY higher than I thought it would be.
The nutritionist told me I should be losing weight at my current expenditure/intake, but she recommended lowering my intake to 1300 in order to lose weight.
That strikes me as mildly insane.
She also said that I can only have 1600-1700 in order to maintain my weight. What the what.0 -
what the what is correct. Please dont listen to her lol. Have you tried eating at maintenance for a week or two?My RMR came in at 1339.
Female, 37, 5'6", 125.4 lbs.
That is WAY higher than I thought it would be.
The nutritionist told me I should be losing weight at my current expenditure/intake, but she recommended lowering my intake to 1300 in order to lose weight.
That strikes me as mildly insane.
She also said that I can only have 1600-1700 in order to maintain my weight. What the what.0 -
what the what is correct. Please dont listen to her lol. Have you tried eating at maintenance for a week or two?My RMR came in at 1339.
Female, 37, 5'6", 125.4 lbs.
That is WAY higher than I thought it would be.
The nutritionist told me I should be losing weight at my current expenditure/intake, but she recommended lowering my intake to 1300 in order to lose weight.
That strikes me as mildly insane.
She also said that I can only have 1600-1700 in order to maintain my weight. What the what.
What IS maintenance?0 -
I just had mine re-tested again, after the fitness center recalibrated their machine and tested on a few other users. Once again: 663. And YET. I am maintaining weight at 1800-2000 calories per day. (My diary is open.) I'm hoping to gradually creep my eating up to 2200 calories per day once I've seen my doctor on the 30th to get some help with my other medical issues, including the persistent nausea that is preventing me from eating as much as I should. I would make sure that the dietician that did your TDEE calculation is accounting for the right amount of activity, as that can make a BIG difference. OBVIOUSLY, since my maintenance with an RMR 0f 670 should be like... 1250 or something stupid.0
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its tdee. Use scoobys calc and use that tdee calculation and try eating that for a week
what the what is correct. Please dont listen to her lol. Have you tried eating at maintenance for a week or two?My RMR came in at 1339.
Female, 37, 5'6", 125.4 lbs.
That is WAY higher than I thought it would be.
The nutritionist told me I should be losing weight at my current expenditure/intake, but she recommended lowering my intake to 1300 in order to lose weight.
That strikes me as mildly insane.
She also said that I can only have 1600-1700 in order to maintain my weight. What the what.
What IS maintenance?0 -
I just had mine re-tested again, after the fitness center recalibrated their machine and tested on a few other users. Once again: 663. And YET. I am maintaining weight at 1800-2000 calories per day. (My diary is open.) I'm hoping to gradually creep my eating up to 2200 calories per day once I've seen my doctor on the 30th to get some help with my other medical issues, including the persistent nausea that is preventing me from eating as much as I should. I would make sure that the dietician that did your TDEE calculation is accounting for the right amount of activity, as that can make a BIG difference. OBVIOUSLY, since my maintenance with an RMR 0f 670 should be like... 1250 or something stupid.
Wow, just wow. And you are exactly correct in previous post about your daily activity, counting staying warm and fidgeting. Those things have been found in studies to go away when you eat too little. So they indeed can add a lot.
Glad you've got your stats to on maintenance level and such.
Now, I would have loved to hear your tech state how much you should be eating to maintain, and lose, and then you explain how much you are actually maintaining on.0 -
My RMR came in at 1339.
Female, 37, 5'6", 125.4 lbs.
That is WAY higher than I thought it would be.
The nutritionist told me I should be losing weight at my current expenditure/intake, but she recommended lowering my intake to 1300 in order to lose weight.
That strikes me as mildly insane.
She also said that I can only have 1600-1700 in order to maintain my weight. What the what.
Ya, ignore there comments beyond the test results, based on very outdated info in the machines.
So 1339 may be way higher than what you thought it would be, but it's actually below what might be expected.
RMR of 1339 means a BMR of 1194 based on fat and non-fat mass. So Katch BMR. That would imply a BF% of 33%
Mifflin BMR based on age, weight, height, is 1271, so almost 100 calories above your measured amount.
Then again, depending on your real BF%, that BMR and RMR may be dead on.
So if you have BF% of 33%, then that RMR is right on.
If you have more, then indeed your RMR is higher than expected.
If you have less, then your RMR is actually lower than expected.
Don't eat to lower value as it's outside 5% bell curve, and could mean you have slower metabolism because of undereating. If because of endurance cardio training, that's fine then.
You would use Scooby's most accurate with Katch model and that 33% BF if that is higher than expected RMR, even if your BF is higher.
But if your BF is lower, use your measured figure for BF.
Or use the spreadsheet if your activity is big variety of stuff and your daily activity is more than sedentary desk job. It's been mentioned in the thread.0 -
Heh. My tech just laughed when he handed me the print-out, and knew better than to explain anything to me at this point. His line of flirtation is to tell his boss that I exist in his life to RUIN EVERYTHING HE KNOWS ABOUT FITNESS. But he texts me encouraging things periodically and wants me to update him on what my doctor has to say about my numbers with regard to the next batch of tests to be run at the end of the month.
:P0 -
Ya, ignore there comments beyond the test results, based on very outdated info in the machines.
So 1339 may be way higher than what you thought it would be, but it's actually below what might be expected.
RMR of 1339 means a BMR of 1194 based on fat and non-fat mass. So Katch BMR. That would imply a BF% of 33%
Mifflin BMR based on age, weight, height, is 1271, so almost 100 calories above your measured amount.
Then again, depending on your real BF%, that BMR and RMR may be dead on.
So if you have BF% of 33%, then that RMR is right on.
If you have more, then indeed your RMR is higher than expected.
If you have less, then your RMR is actually lower than expected.
Don't eat to lower value as it's outside 5% bell curve, and could mean you have slower metabolism because of undereating. If because of endurance cardio training, that's fine then.
You would use Scooby's most accurate with Katch model and that 33% BF if that is higher than expected RMR, even if your BF is higher.
But if your BF is lower, use your measured figure for BF.
Or use the spreadsheet if your activity is big variety of stuff and your daily activity is more than sedentary desk job. It's been mentioned in the thread.
Last time my personal trainer measured my body fat, it was 21-22%. Something like that. Definitely not 33%.
The rest of what you said didn't make any sense to me at all???0 -
Last time my personal trainer measured my body fat, it was 21-22%. Something like that. Definitely not 33%.
The rest of what you said didn't make any sense to me at all???
Ya, I should have just asked.
So you have estimated LBM of 98.4 lbs.
That LBM within 5% would have an expected RMR of 1482
So you have tested RMR of 1339 means you are good 150 lower than expected, well outside the normal 5% variance expected.
So either 1 - something medically wrong, or 2 - you do endurance aerobic cardio, or 3 you have suppressed metabolism from undereating.
May need to have blood tests for thyroid for 1st if you show any symptoms, you'll know if 2nd applies, and you can confirm the 3rd isn't happening by making sure you eat enough for activity.
If you use the Scooby most accurate option, with Katch method with bodyfat%, use your measured 21.5%.
That will result in Katch BMR of 1334.
Go from there with your activity levels.
So be honest with your activity level or use the spreadsheet - you really don't need to be undereating still and keeping it suppressed.
Suggest lifting too, as main means of raising RMR back to expected levels.0 -
Ya, I should have just asked.
So you have estimated LBM of 98.4 lbs.
That LBM within 5% would have an expected RMR of 1482
So you have tested RMR of 1339 means you are good 150 lower than expected, well outside the normal 5% variance expected.
So either 1 - something medically wrong, or 2 - you do endurance aerobic cardio, or 3 you have suppressed metabolism from undereating.
May need to have blood tests for thyroid for 1st if you show any symptoms, you'll know if 2nd applies, and you can confirm the 3rd isn't happening by making sure you eat enough for activity.
If you use the Scooby most accurate option, with Katch method with bodyfat%, use your measured 21.5%.
That will result in Katch BMR of 1334.
Go from there with your activity levels.
So be honest with your activity level or use the spreadsheet - you really don't need to be undereating still and keeping it suppressed.
Suggest lifting too, as main means of raising RMR back to expected levels.
I've had my thyroid levels tested; they are on the low end of normal but not subclinical according to the doc.
I do do endurance aerobic cardio and have probably been undereating for a couple of years now. I do also lift; I do at least 30 mins of strength training 5x a week along with at least 30 mins of cardio, usually closer to 45, 5x a week. I don't know what Scooby is.0 -
I've had my thyroid levels tested; they are on the low end of normal but not subclinical according to the doc.
I do do endurance aerobic cardio and have probably been undereating for a couple of years now. I do also lift; I do at least 30 mins of strength training 5x a week along with at least 30 mins of cardio, usually closer to 45, 5x a week. I don't know what Scooby is.
That may cause slight lowering than, endurance cardio.
But use this then.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker0
