Rippetoe's latest article
Frank_Just_Frank
Posts: 454 Member
I don't know if anyone else here keeps up with training articles; Rippetoe's latest is fun, mostly because I love the way he craps all over people :laugh:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down
My only problem with this is that even though it's fun to blast on crossfitters, they have one thing that powerlifting hasn't been able to do for me...they slim down. As I look through YouTube vids of people doing awesome squats & deadlifts, I can't help notice that a lot of them are fat too.
That's fine for people who *only* care about 1rm, but I want to get rid of this gut and move towards my dreamed-of 500lbs squat (for the moment, my max squat is 405). Has anyone else tried to balance out these 2 goals that seem to contradict each other?
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down
My only problem with this is that even though it's fun to blast on crossfitters, they have one thing that powerlifting hasn't been able to do for me...they slim down. As I look through YouTube vids of people doing awesome squats & deadlifts, I can't help notice that a lot of them are fat too.
That's fine for people who *only* care about 1rm, but I want to get rid of this gut and move towards my dreamed-of 500lbs squat (for the moment, my max squat is 405). Has anyone else tried to balance out these 2 goals that seem to contradict each other?
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My only problem with this is that even though it's fun to blast on crossfitters, they have one thing that powerlifting hasn't been able to do for me...they slim down.
No particular training style is going to make you "slim down."0 -
On it's own, that's true. But some programs are better at building muscle, others at gaining speed, etc. I'm just thinking that if powerlifting is geared at getting you stronger, maybe it needs to be complimented with something else if I also want to slim down...or maybe I'm trying to over complicate things.0
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On it's own, that's true. But some programs are better at building muscle, others at gaining speed, etc. I'm just thinking that if powerlifting is geared at getting you stronger, maybe it needs to be complimented with something else if I also want to slim down...or maybe I'm trying to over complicate things.
compliment it with a calorie deficit0 -
Powerlifting should never just be powerlifting. It should be the core of your training though if that is your goal. You should always be doing GPP on the off days to work on your cardio level, mprove overall work capacity and also to be used as active recovery.. Drag the sled around, run hills/stairs, flip tires, so many other things. A lot of stuff that has been around for ages that crossfit just borrowed and threw into a giant set. The fat power lifters are fat because they want to be, they want as much mass as possible for the best leverage to hit the biggest numbers they can. These guys are also eating 10,000+ calories a day at times. You don't need to be fat to powerlift especially if you want to stay in a weight class, but you will not be at your prime to move big weights and have single digit body fat percentage at the same time. Look at guys like Dan green, mark bell just dropped a ton of weight too, stan efferding was very lean up until about a year ago when he really set focus on that 2300 pound total. Yes, it is entirely possible to be reasonably lean and lift heavy to a point.
It all comes down to diet and what you do outside of the basic training days. If you want to do crossfit as part of GPP on the offdays, I don't see why not if you are smart about it. If your focus is powerlifting, killing yourself on a crossfit workout the day before a heavy squat session is a stupid way to go about it. The core should always be there though.0 -
Yeah I work on a street that has a pretty steep slope and goes for approx 3km. I was thinking of doing interval sprints for the summer on my lunch breaks. Thanks.0
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I don't know if anyone else here keeps up with training articles; Rippetoe's latest is fun, mostly because I love the way he craps all over people :laugh:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down
My only problem with this is that even though it's fun to blast on crossfitters, they have one thing that powerlifting hasn't been able to do for me...they slim down. As I look through YouTube vids of people doing awesome squats & deadlifts, I can't help notice that a lot of them are fat too.
That's fine for people who *only* care about 1rm, but I want to get rid of this gut and move towards my dreamed-of 500lbs squat (for the moment, my max squat is 405). Has anyone else tried to balance out these 2 goals that seem to contradict each other?
You'll have problems if you're trying to do both at the same time. Cut weight to ~10%, then bulk to 15%, then repeat until you die or quit, trying to hit 10% at higher total weights. Recognize on cuts you won't be as strong and on bulks you won't be as lean.0 -
Thanks for the article. I really need to read a book on programming.0
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I don't know if anyone else here keeps up with training articles; Rippetoe's latest is fun, mostly because I love the way he craps all over people :laugh:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/rippetoe_throws_down
My only problem with this is that even though it's fun to blast on crossfitters, they have one thing that powerlifting hasn't been able to do for me...they slim down. As I look through YouTube vids of people doing awesome squats & deadlifts, I can't help notice that a lot of them are fat too.
That's fine for people who *only* care about 1rm, but I want to get rid of this gut and move towards my dreamed-of 500lbs squat (for the moment, my max squat is 405). Has anyone else tried to balance out these 2 goals that seem to contradict each other?
You'll have problems if you're trying to do both at the same time. Cut weight to ~10%, then bulk to 15%, then repeat until you die or quit, trying to hit 10% at higher total weights. Recognize on cuts you won't be as strong and on bulks you won't be as lean.
This. The reason you see so many fat *kitten* powerlifters is because they go on a never ending bulk cycle that results in them having high absolute strength, but **** relative strength. They are always chasing a higher lift, but ignoring the fact that they couldn't see their crotch without a mirror if their lives depended on it. To me, a 400 pound blimp squatting over a grand is far less impressive than a 198 dude squatting 700+.
As for the powerlifting not being conducive to weight loss: horse****. Granted, my top lifts are far from impressive (395/255/495), but I've dropped 50 lbs. in my first seven and a half months (from 249 to 199), by doing nothing but eating at a deficit, keeping protein high, and picking up heavy **** as much, and as often as possible. Is my way ideal? Probably not. Is it working? Obviously.0 -
Thanks for the article. I really need to read a book on programming.
What are your questions on programming?0 -
Actually a 495 dead lift is mighty impressive!
I've only recently looked into measuring calories, specifically with tdee. It's good to know others are doing it. Time will tell.0 -
Got bored and dug up some sources for GPP that might help you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICwsZr-hBqM
http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/gpp/
(I am almost positive that there is another article on GPP on westside)0 -
^^Good info.
GPP is definitely important. I let myself go for a while, and my workouts were taking longer and longer.
Took some time to focus on GPP on my "off" days and I can now get the work done in a shorter amount of time (training density is important), or I can do more work before being completely tired.0 -
To answer the original question - yes, I've tried to lose weight and gain strength at the same time. I've been lifting for just under a year now, and tried a few different styles of eating/lifting. What I saw was this:
Controlled eating (aiming for 2 lbs a week weight loss) and moderate lifting: Weight loss and strength gains sort of fizzled - there was still progress, but not very much on either side. This was more like "exercise" than "training".
Controlled eating and heavy lifting: Weight loss shot up well, but strength gains were definitely impacted. I would run out of energy quick, and it would take me a while to recover.
Hunger eating (I eat when I'm hungry) and heavy lifting: Weight loss stopped entirely, but strength shot up like a rocket - I could definitely lift more without getting the shakes, and recovery was fast and strong. I've gained about 10 lbs in weight, but gained over 100 lbs each on squat and deadlift since November.
It is possible to lose weight and gain strength, but don't expect to get fast results. You need a surplus of calories to gain muscle mass, and that's the fastest way to gain strength. I agree with the "bulk and cut" routine - I plan to go into another cutting cycle after the spring Highland games season, but for now I'm aiming for just strength gain and not fat loss.0 -
Yes, I read this last week and found it to be very interesting. Let's be honest, everything has its positives and negatives to it but Crossfit is still one heck of a good workout. I recently did this Boot Camp thing to help with my endurance and their workouts are structured just like Crossfit minus the weights. I'll tell you that **** is no joke. I can't imagine running 1/4 mile, then doing 200 double-unders immediately following by 50 burpees and then having to crank out 5 heavy DL's or Cleans and then having to repeat that circuit 4 or 5 times. Fuuuuuuuck that... Although I must say that if I could afford the $150/month membership for a GOOD CrossFit facility I might actually do it. The combination of strength and conditioning can't be beat and I don't plan on competing anytime soon in PL'ing.
RE Losing weight and PL'ing. I lost about 35lbs while doing 5/3/1 and Westside and put over 100lbs on my DL, and 70lbs on my bench, so it can definitely be done.0 -
My issue with CrossFit has to do with the total lack of emphasis on safety, from the top down. They market it to people with little or no training experience who have no business whatsoever trying to do Olympic lifts at all, let alone for time, and they don't really teach them how to do any of it safely. I can't even the count the number of women I know personally who never even played a sport as a child who walked into a CrossFit gym and started doing O-lifts right away, only to hurt themselves and never go back.
The majority of CrossFit coaches have no educational background in sports, exercise science, or kinesiology. They just had an extra $1000 lying around and were able to pass a multiple choice test about basic fitness. Greg Glassman actually brags about the fact that people regularly suffer serious injuries doing CrossFit. He also said once that if you're not willing to die doing CrossFit, then you don't belong in CrossFit.
Real training is designed to AVOID injury. You learn how to lift properly, and progression is built in at a deliberate pace so that you can measure your accomplishments from one week to the next. If all you're looking for is a hard workout to make you FEEL like you accomplished something (even if there is no real trail of numbers to show you are getting stronger), then CrossFit is great.
As a woman, the only thing about CrossFit that is at all appealing to me is the atmosphere of encouragement for females to be able to do something more significant than triceps kickbacks with a pair of Barbie weights. But I can get that from powerlifting or O-lifting without being told that if I'm not constantly sore, tired, and injured, that if I can't do X number of deadlifts in 10 minutes, I'm not enough of a badass.0 -
My issue with CrossFit has to do with the total lack of emphasis on safety, from the top down. They market it to people with little or no training experience who have no business whatsoever trying to do Olympic lifts at all, let alone for time, and they don't really teach them how to do any of it safely. I can't even the count the number of women I know personally who never even played a sport as a child who walked into a CrossFit gym and started doing O-lifts right away, only to hurt themselves and never go back.
The majority of CrossFit coaches have no educational background in sports, exercise science, or kinesiology. They just had an extra $1000 lying around and were able to pass a multiple choice test about basic fitness. Greg Glassman actually brags about the fact that people regularly suffer serious injuries doing CrossFit. He also said once that if you're not willing to die doing CrossFit, then you don't belong in CrossFit.
Real training is designed to AVOID injury. You learn how to lift properly, and progression is built in at a deliberate pace so that you can measure your accomplishments from one week to the next. If all you're looking for is a hard workout to make you FEEL like you accomplished something (even if there is no real trail of numbers to show you are getting stronger), then CrossFit is great.
As a woman, the only thing about CrossFit that is at all appealing to me is the atmosphere of encouragement for females to be able to do something more significant than triceps kickbacks with a pair of Barbie weights. But I can get that from powerlifting or O-lifting without being told that if I'm not constantly sore, tired, and injured, that if I can't do X number of deadlifts in 10 minutes, I'm not enough of a badass.
Yes and no... Are there BAD CrossFit facilities, definitely and people definitely get hurt in those places. The place my GF goes to for Boot Camp, place I went to, the owner is a CSCS and has been running the facility for a while and she's never talked about anybody getting hurt. Part of the program is a beginner's class for learning how to properly perform the lifts. He also has a board for tracking the CF member's progress in certain lifts, so there is strength progression as well.0 -
Your out look on Powerlifting is way off. I can watch tons of Video's of Fat poeple doing Crossfit as well. I'm not a crossfit fan for a few reasons. I do like some things about, but in general the way Crossfitters act and their outlook on everyone else sucks.
You can do a 5/3/1 or CUBE or a few other Powerlifting workouts. If you keep the Tempo at a fast pace.. Add Sled Drag/pulls, Prowlers, Hill sprints, trie flips and so on... With the a good diet... You can get ripped as well.
Anytime you train Olympic Moves for a Time... Your an idoit...
Olympic athletes train Hours a day for years on end to do these moves.... You think some 20 something kid who took a two day class to be Crossfit cert. can do it... WRONG... All it takes to be a Crossfit Cert. is $1000 and one weekend.
Look into the 181 and the 198lb Powerlifters.... Many of them are in great shape to make weight. Yes there are many fat looking powerlifters...0 -
Look into the 181 and the 198lb Powerlifters.... Many of them are in great shape to make weight. Yes there are many fat looking powerlifters...
Agree here. Pretty much, with some exceptions, from the 220 class and down the guys are in pretty great shape. And there are some guys on up there in bodyweight that are in good shape.
Brandon Lilly is pretty lean to be 300+ pounds.0 -
Your out look on Powerlifting is way off. I can watch tons of Video's of Fat poeple doing Crossfit as well. I'm not a crossfit fan for a few reasons. I do like some things about, but in general the way Crossfitters act and their outlook on everyone else sucks.
You can do a 5/3/1 or CUBE or a few other Powerlifting workouts. If you keep the Tempo at a fast pace.. Add Sled Drag/pulls, Prowlers, Hill sprints, trie flips and so on... With the a good diet... You can get ripped as well.
Anytime you train Olympic Moves for a Time... Your an idoit...
Olympic athletes train Hours a day for years on end to do these moves.... You think some 20 something kid who took a two day class to be Crossfit cert. can do it... WRONG... All it takes to be a Crossfit Cert. is $1000 and one weekend.
Look into the 181 and the 198lb Powerlifters.... Many of them are in great shape to make weight. Yes there are many fat looking powerlifters...
Adult gym class. At least it's getting people off their a$$es.
Also there's tons of hot chicks doing it, so though I'll never join as I much prefer power lifting, I can definitely appreciate it.0 -
Adult gym class. At least it's getting people off their a$$es.
Also there's tons of hot chicks doing it, so though I'll never join as I much prefer power lifting, I can definitely appreciate it.
definitely some hot chicks into crossfit.
honestly, if it wasnt so easy to be a coach, and prices weren't so outrageous I'd probably do it from time to time just for fun.
but around here its about 130 a month.0 -
Adult gym class. At least it's getting people off their a$$es.
Also there's tons of hot chicks doing it, so though I'll never join as I much prefer power lifting, I can definitely appreciate it.
definitely some hot chicks into crossfit.
honestly, if it wasnt so easy to be a coach, and prices weren't so outrageous I'd probably do it from time to time just for fun.
but around here its about 130 a month.
My girlfriend is into Boot Camp which the workouts are basically setup just like CrossFit minus the weights, for the most part no weights. There are some good looking women in that class and the female trainers are really hot, not to mention my GF.
I think CrossFit has merit for overall conditioning and I would do it in-addition to maintaining a powerlifting base if I could afford it. I watched a CrossFit competition once and it was impressive. However the one thing I learned as I was listening to the announcers as that some of the stronger people in the Clean and Deadlift "ladder" competition were actually competitive powerlifters as well. Those people that were competitive powerlifters progressed the furthest in that aspect of the competition but actually lost overall because the competition is really about endurance.
Basically my takeaways from watching CrossFit and doing Boot Camp is that if your goals are conditioning with some slight strength improvement then do one of those. If your goal is to truly become stronger then powerlift for sure. Not to say that you can do sled pushing, tire flips, etc for conditioning as well, just CF and BC are extreme.0 -
My girlfriend is into Boot Camp which the workouts are basically setup just like CrossFit minus the weights, for the most part no weights. There are some good looking women in that class and the female trainers are really hot, not to mention my GF.
I think CrossFit has merit for overall conditioning and I would do it in-addition to maintaining a powerlifting base if I could afford it. I watched a CrossFit competition once and it was impressive. However the one thing I learned as I was listening to the announcers as that some of the stronger people in the Clean and Deadlift "ladder" competition were actually competitive powerlifters as well. Those people that were competitive powerlifters progressed the furthest in that aspect of the competition but actually lost overall because the competition is really about endurance.
Basically my takeaways from watching CrossFit and doing Boot Camp is that if your goals are conditioning with some slight strength improvement then do one of those. If your goal is to truly become stronger then powerlift for sure. Not to say that you can do sled pushing, tire flips, etc for conditioning as well, just CF and BC are extreme.
I have some friends who do it. They're much weaker than me, but are a lot leaner too (mostly because I'm horrible with sticking to a diet and not eating all the foods but also because they're much more active because of the workouts that they do).
Anything to get people up and moving is a good thing in my book. It boggles my mind how folks can get all up in arms about the dangers of xfit but then seem to think that sports like football are ok. I distinctly remember actively trying to break people on the field, I doubt that happens in a xfit competition.
You don't have to like it, it's not for me, I think the kipping pullups and high rep cleans are kind of silly, but if someone else wants to that's fine by me. I'm plenty happy watching hot chicks bouncing around. Similarly I think that trying to get my fat *kitten* on a pair of skates in an ice rink is stupid as hell, but you'll never hear me mocking hockey players (I like having teeth), and I like watching games.0 -
My girlfriend is into Boot Camp which the workouts are basically setup just like CrossFit minus the weights, for the most part no weights. There are some good looking women in that class and the female trainers are really hot, not to mention my GF.
I think CrossFit has merit for overall conditioning and I would do it in-addition to maintaining a powerlifting base if I could afford it. I watched a CrossFit competition once and it was impressive. However the one thing I learned as I was listening to the announcers as that some of the stronger people in the Clean and Deadlift "ladder" competition were actually competitive powerlifters as well. Those people that were competitive powerlifters progressed the furthest in that aspect of the competition but actually lost overall because the competition is really about endurance.
Basically my takeaways from watching CrossFit and doing Boot Camp is that if your goals are conditioning with some slight strength improvement then do one of those. If your goal is to truly become stronger then powerlift for sure. Not to say that you can do sled pushing, tire flips, etc for conditioning as well, just CF and BC are extreme.
I have some friends who do it. They're much weaker than me, but are a lot leaner too (mostly because I'm horrible with sticking to a diet and not eating all the foods but also because they're much more active because of the workouts that they do).
Anything to get people up and moving is a good thing in my book. It boggles my mind how folks can get all up in arms about the dangers of xfit but then seem to think that sports like football are ok. I distinctly remember actively trying to break people on the field, I doubt that happens in a xfit competition.
You don't have to like it, it's not for me, I think the kipping pullups and high rep cleans are kind of silly, but if someone else wants to that's fine by me. I'm plenty happy watching hot chicks bouncing around. Similarly I think that trying to get my fat *kitten* on a pair of skates in an ice rink is stupid as hell, but you'll never hear me mocking hockey players (I like having teeth), and I like watching games.
Well put sir.
I think what a lot of people lose sight of is that diet is really the primary driver of one's body composition. Look at somebody like Matt Kroc; I'll take his BF% any day of the week because he generally looks pretty lean.0 -
Great posts and they mirror my own opinions. When I was powerlifting my friend competed in the 165lb class. 315+ bench, 550lb squat and 600lb dead. And he was in great shape as he needed to make his weight class. I also had to cut to make weight class.
One thing that hasn't been touched on is CFers aren't about 1 rep maxes. They are about volume vs time. Not really about how much the weights weigh.
CFers are also Paleo supporters so that's a lot of where the leaness comes from. Also their workouts are very volume heavy so lots of calories burnt.
I'd also like to try it but the cost is way too much. It's $100/month around here.0 -
Well put sir.
I think what a lot of people lose sight of is that diet is really the primary driver of one's body composition. Look at somebody like Matt Kroc; I'll take his BF% any day of the week because he generally looks pretty lean.
Well the common thing with people getting the wrong idea of powerlifting is when they see either SHW guys or natural guys.
The majority of the guys on drugs still look good. I can't think of many natural guys that are strong and look great. I'm sure there's a few (not Layne norton )
Kroc looks awesome from a combination of drugs and competing in bodybuilding.0
