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Knee Question
zerryz
Posts: 168 Member
Warning: Long post
About 2 months ago, in doing research about programs to build body strength, mainly to increase my swimming speed performance, I discovered StrongLift 5x5. I read and listened to Mehdi’s endless blah-blah, yet very informative info. I also talked to a couple of terrific MFP people on my FL to then start lifting. Amazingly enough, what was truly supposed to be a means to an end—get strength to beat my PR swim sprints-- became a distinct fitness activity, with now its own sets of PR targets, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Until about 10 days ago when I had to abruptly stop all fitness activities.
I have a mild genu valgum condition (knock-knee), for which doctors predicted that I’d get knee problems from an early age. I started having arthritis in my late 20’s ; this means that I live with constant knee pain, which is ok as I built tolerance to it, except that I had to give up some activities as years passed-- running, aerobics, jazz/tap dance etc. When I started lifting, I paid extreme attention to form because of that. I did not want to injure myself. I was lucky to find « Starting Strength » buddies at the gym who helped spot/correct form deficiencies. I was very conservative with adding weight, going up slowly, deloaded when needed, and made sure I got warmed up properly. The weight I was lifting was actually not heavy at all when I had to stop (oscillating between 65 and 70lbs). At first, I adopted the « parallel thighs », hip-slightly-below-the-knees position. Then, 4 weeks in, I changed to ATG to get that bounce that I was reading about and also help reduce the pain I was getting in my knees and lower back (I’ve had chronic back pain for ever too.) I knew both back pain and knee pain would progressively diminish as I built both my core muscles (very weak area for me) and my leg ones, which would relieve my knees from carrying all the weight --in addition to sticking to a weight loss diet.
Unfortunately, 10 days ago, after what seemed an intense fitness weekend, my knees finally gave up. They started popping and locking to the point that I could not walk without risking to fall, along with intense pain. I consulted both a sports med doc and an Ortho surgeon. X-rays didn’t show anything broken, no stress fracture luckily. There was a chance that there’d be menisci tear but this too was cleared because the healing process was going super well and the pain is now 90% gone. So the conclusion was that the inflammation got too intense due to excess usage associated to unusual/excess activity. I was told to drop lifting, concentrate on low-impact/ non-weight-bearing activities, and build leg and core strength using other methods, resistance exercises with elastic bands for example and, when completely healed, biking.
My question is the following : did anyone in this group have to deal with similar challenges ? If so, how were you able to continue lifting, tackling the pain and preventing possible injuries (I am assuming you are still lifting if you are in this group)? Does anyone use special equipment to help ? Doing squats is truly the culprit activity here and the one I have to give up (OHP, BenchP, barbell row and deadlift are not affecting my knees as much it seems, painwise). Are there any other compound lifting exercises that can get close to the benefits I’d get from squatting ?
Thanks for your help !
About 2 months ago, in doing research about programs to build body strength, mainly to increase my swimming speed performance, I discovered StrongLift 5x5. I read and listened to Mehdi’s endless blah-blah, yet very informative info. I also talked to a couple of terrific MFP people on my FL to then start lifting. Amazingly enough, what was truly supposed to be a means to an end—get strength to beat my PR swim sprints-- became a distinct fitness activity, with now its own sets of PR targets, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Until about 10 days ago when I had to abruptly stop all fitness activities.
I have a mild genu valgum condition (knock-knee), for which doctors predicted that I’d get knee problems from an early age. I started having arthritis in my late 20’s ; this means that I live with constant knee pain, which is ok as I built tolerance to it, except that I had to give up some activities as years passed-- running, aerobics, jazz/tap dance etc. When I started lifting, I paid extreme attention to form because of that. I did not want to injure myself. I was lucky to find « Starting Strength » buddies at the gym who helped spot/correct form deficiencies. I was very conservative with adding weight, going up slowly, deloaded when needed, and made sure I got warmed up properly. The weight I was lifting was actually not heavy at all when I had to stop (oscillating between 65 and 70lbs). At first, I adopted the « parallel thighs », hip-slightly-below-the-knees position. Then, 4 weeks in, I changed to ATG to get that bounce that I was reading about and also help reduce the pain I was getting in my knees and lower back (I’ve had chronic back pain for ever too.) I knew both back pain and knee pain would progressively diminish as I built both my core muscles (very weak area for me) and my leg ones, which would relieve my knees from carrying all the weight --in addition to sticking to a weight loss diet.
Unfortunately, 10 days ago, after what seemed an intense fitness weekend, my knees finally gave up. They started popping and locking to the point that I could not walk without risking to fall, along with intense pain. I consulted both a sports med doc and an Ortho surgeon. X-rays didn’t show anything broken, no stress fracture luckily. There was a chance that there’d be menisci tear but this too was cleared because the healing process was going super well and the pain is now 90% gone. So the conclusion was that the inflammation got too intense due to excess usage associated to unusual/excess activity. I was told to drop lifting, concentrate on low-impact/ non-weight-bearing activities, and build leg and core strength using other methods, resistance exercises with elastic bands for example and, when completely healed, biking.
My question is the following : did anyone in this group have to deal with similar challenges ? If so, how were you able to continue lifting, tackling the pain and preventing possible injuries (I am assuming you are still lifting if you are in this group)? Does anyone use special equipment to help ? Doing squats is truly the culprit activity here and the one I have to give up (OHP, BenchP, barbell row and deadlift are not affecting my knees as much it seems, painwise). Are there any other compound lifting exercises that can get close to the benefits I’d get from squatting ?
Thanks for your help !
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Replies
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I have issues with my knee but definitely not to the severity that you do. I don't know if you've tried wrapping, but it is supposed to help quite a bit and they're pretty cheap online. You may also consider using the leg press alternating with barbell squats every other workout or so to lessen the load on your back and so you may pay very close attention to your form
Good luck to you lovely xo0 -
Are there any other compound lifting exercises that can get close to the benefits I’d get from squatting ?
That won't put a similar stress on the knee? Probably not.
Personally, I wouldn't take no for an answer at this point. Not saying your doctors are wrong, but many doctors are biased against lifting. I would seek out a few more opinions before I gave up.0 -
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The problem with the "squatting ATG involves more hamstring so stabilises the knee" advice is that squatting ATG invariably involves more forward knee travel, which again puts more stress on the knee so you are just trading one thing off for another.
If you want to keep trying squatting, I would try moving to a box squat, wider stance, low bar 'powerlifting" style whereby you maintain a completely upright shin angle.
See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbCaLZ8a0cw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If you can't squat any more so be it, it's not the end of the world. You can still build some strong and sexy a hell legs with Deadlift variations, some sprinting, hip thrusts, sled work etc. no singular exercise is essential0 -
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The problem with the "squatting ATG involves more hamstring so stabilises the knee" advice is that squatting ATG invariably involves more forward knee travel, which again puts more stress on the knee so you are just trading one thing off for another.
If you want to keep trying squatting, I would try moving to a box squat, wider stance, low bar 'powerlifting" style whereby you maintain a completely upright shin angle.
This. Except I do not recommend you box squat.
It's also possible that the "bounce" you were experiencing was you bouncing off your joints, as opposed to using the naturally occurring stretch reflex action of the hamstrings at the bottom of a squat. I'd go back to low bar and just below parallel, and get some coaching from a starting strength qualified coach. If you look on the Starting Strength forums, there is a directory there that will help. Squatting low bar properly has saved my crappy knees, and many other people's knees.
If all else fails, and you give up barbell squats completely, I hear that trap bar deadlifts are the next best thing.0 -
Nothing to add - just tagging0
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Thanks! This is awesome info. In another 3 or 4 weeks, I'll probably test squatting with weights again. I'll do some air squats until then. I like the alternating leg press/squats suggestion to ease back into the routine. I thought of doing some more intense ab work to build the core support and help spread out the load throughout the body, relieving the lower body from some of the stress.
I'll also look into box squatting, squatting low bar trap bar deadlifts and explore sprinting, hip thrusts, sled work .. Gee, I hope there's a LIFTI-Pedia site or sthg to help translate these terms into some language I understand. LOL. Again, thanks.0 -
Locking so we can keep track of active threads easier. Please feel free to PM either myself or SideSteel, and include a link to this thread. and we will unlock should you wish to add anything to it.0
This discussion has been closed.