I could use some opinions

michellekicks

Hey everyone! I could use some opinions.

I've been at my "goal weight" of 158 lbs (or at least a healthy BMI) since last summer. I originally lost 36 lbs eating about 2100 calories/day on average though I did the MFP net method - so about 1600 net (and burned an average of 500 calories daily as a runner who was in race season at the time).

In October 2012 I started lifting weights. I switched to the TDEE method and was eating 2100 calories daily and increased to 2200 then 2300... in the first month at 2300 I saw a few improvements in inches lost though my weight stayed exactly the same at 159. I changed my workouts to basically run, lift, rest, repeat... so I was lifting every 3rd day and running every 3rd day and resting every 3rd day. It felt too much like I wasn't working out enough, but I was getting stronger (did my first unassisted chin-up and pull up in this time) and, as I said, my weight stayed stable and I felt leaner.

I got discouraged with SL5x5 in November because a) I have to squat and bench on a smith and b) I was stalling out on every lift. I quit SL and did some other random lifting - trying stuff out. Had some fun with it. Then Christmas came, then I cut a bit to recover from Christmas... then in, like February I cut a bit to 2000 calories to prepare for a trip to Mexico. I also went back to SL5x5 but was basically doing my running in the off days so I had very few full rest days.

Anyway... went to Mexico, weight is up a couple of pounds since I got back. I'm sitting about 161 lbs and my waist size is back up an inch. I haven't been lifting since I got back because I realized I'm only about 8 weeks out from my first big event - I'm doing Tough Mudder in June. So I started increasing cardio for that.

But what's happening now is that, with the increased cardio, I'm craving carbs like there's no tomorrow, I'm dehydrated (which makes me crave sugar) and I'm questioning my calorie intake. While I DO want to look better, I also want to perform well in a series of obstacle races I'm tackling this year. So my focus is on being able to complete a 3+ hour effort, which means lots of endurance cardio. Also, while my TM is in June, my Spartan Beast (13 miles also) is at the end of September, so I have to maintain my endurance all summer.

I was using a Body Media Fit for a couple of weeks back in March and it seemed to figure my TDEE on a rest day at about 2100-2200 calories. This is what the Fitbit gave me too, when I used it in the fall. So then if that is true...

The last 2 weeks are discouraging me and I know it's only 2 weeks, but I'm losing my groove here. I was hoping to get the extra pounds off from Mexico but this is proving difficult.

- My average TDEE in the last 2 weeks is 2500-2600 daily (depending on 2100 or 2200 without exercise).
- My average intake over that same time is 2151.
- That makes my average deficit between 360 and 460 calories daily (in theory)

My weight has fluctuated from 161.8 on April 15th to a low of 158.6 on the 24th and then up to 162.4 yesterday. Now it's back to 160.2 this morning but I'd like to get back to keeping all my water fluctuations in the 150s... NOT because of the number itself, but because my body feels tighter and my belly is flatter at that point.

So my questions are:

1) Do you think I should try eating MORE or LESS with my current level of activity (mostly cardio 5-6 days a week with a 7 day average of just over 400 calories at this point?

2) Do you think lifting weights would be useful to add back in even if I can't go heavy enough to have them impact my endurance training. I'd have to be in the hypertrophy/endurance rep range at least since I can't take full rest days - they will all be active rest (except one full rest day weekly with no exercise).

3) Do you think I could benefit from a routine that adds, say 15-20 minutes of weights 5-6 days a week (like 1-2 body parts) along with my running and other cardio? Would that be better than, say 1-2 full body weights workouts per week in place of cardio?

Sorry... I know that's a lot of questions. Let me know if you have any thoughts. I'm kind of discouraged. I'm still about 26-27% body fat I think, so I'd like to get about 10 lbs of fat off me. In the fall I'm going to aim to add back 4-5 lbs of muscle. My ultimate goal is <20% body fat... probably somewhere around 150lbs.

This is consuming me :frown:

holleysings

Have you done a TDEE break since increasing your cardio? If you're craving carbs, eat more carbs! That's why I eat 50c/20p/30f. I need carbs to have the energy to get through my workouts. That's the first thing I would suggest: eat more carbs on cardio days and consider doing a TDEE break.

I would definitely add some weight training back in. I can't say how much, but if you want to drop body fat and preserve muscle, lifting is the way to go!

Why aren't you using your BMF all the time? I know it's annoying to wear, but since your activity level has changed, you should wear it until you get settled into a routine.

My final thought is that you need to get your body fat rechecked somehow. Find out if you truly are where you think you are. I thought I had made zero progress this winter since my weight was up and my measurements were up and down all over the place. Turns out I had lost 4-7% body fat (range due to method "accuracy") even though I had gained some weight. So it's possible that you have made some progress without knowing it!

marathonmom72

Here's what jumped out at me. 1) Make sure you are well hydrated. 2) You had success with the lifting, running, resting routine. So why not go back to that? I understand the need to prepare for your endurance events, so maybe just rest 1 day per week and alternate the running and lifting. Another option would be to add another cardio workout and try lifting just 2 days per week. If you have the time, you could also double up a day or two and combine your lifting with a shorter run. 3) You are so close to your goal weight that I wonder if your deficit is too large. Try increasing your calories some and see if that helps. You have the benefit of knowing your TDEE, so you could be sure to not go over that. I know how frustrating it can be! I have been stuck for a year and I'm still searching for the right combination for me. Good luck!

heybales

If you were eating at maintenance, I think that 5-6 days of training would not see ill-effects, as long as they were smart workouts - meaning easy days with harder days.

But you are also trying to lose weight, that deficit with extra stress I think doesn't allow that kind of training level without bad results.
You don't need that many days of cardio training for endurance.

You need to train the anaerobic end, so it's as high as it can be, for those brief pushes that increase lactate acid, you want body trained to use that fast and get it out. So that's intervals or hill sprints.

You need shorter run at race pace so body knows how this pace feels.

You need longer run for the endurance, and to train the fat-burning system, and let body feel the time.

That's it really, and at a deficit, you'll see better results from that. So the hard day can truly be hard and give best benefit.

Now, if you had 3 days doing that, you can put in some upper body lifting days to keep that strong, and indeed in the 2 x 15-20 rep range. Even 1 lower body day to keep the strength potential up.

Rest day.
Long run day lower aerobic HR zone.
Upper body lifting and walk or short run Recovery HR zone.
Interval/hill day.
Upper body lifting and walk.
Short run day upper aerobic HR zone.
Full body lifting and walk.

So that is still 4 days of some running.
So are resting to allow recovery and repair for what really needs it. And you aren't going in to a workout already tired which would impact performance.

I would follow the eat-back method, using Body-Media to estimate your non-exercise days and determine your deficit amount. Then add on exercise calories with same deficit.

Confirm BodyMedia has the non-exercise part of your day correct. You have scanned LBM, and great Katch BMR estimate then.
Look at BodyMedia's night time calorie burn per min. Find the lowest one x 1440 - is that BMR close?

But test whatever you are going to use to estimate your calorie burns.
Lifting just use MFP, small and correct enough.

If using HRM or BodyMedia for running, I'd do the treadmill test to see how close it really is. Mine gave me the same estimates whether hill running or flat treadmill, as long as my feet turnover was the same - hence my distrust of it.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/774337-how-to-test-hrm-for-how-accurate-calorie-burn-is

michellekicks

Have you done a TDEE break since increasing your cardio? If you're craving carbs, eat more carbs! That's why I eat 50c/20p/30f. I need carbs to have the energy to get through my workouts. That's the first thing I would suggest: eat more carbs on cardio days and consider doing a TDEE break.

Yes I took a break and ate well over TDEE for 10 days in Mexico :laugh: that's what got me into this mess. My macros have been set to 50c/25p/25f. I know I respond better to higher protein though so I'm tweaking to 45c/30p/25f

I would definitely add some weight training back in. I can't say how much, but if you want to drop body fat and preserve muscle, lifting is the way to go!

Thank you. Yes, Heybales' workout schedule is probably the way I'm going to go if I can manage it.

Why aren't you using your BMF all the time? I know it's annoying to wear, but since your activity level has changed, you should wear it until you get settled into a routine.

WAY too annoying to wear all the time. Can't bear to do it. The weather is nice here and I want to wear no sleeves without people asking me about it :ohwell:

My final thought is that you need to get your body fat rechecked somehow. Find out if you truly are where you think you are. I thought I had made zero progress this winter since my weight was up and my measurements were up and down all over the place. Turns out I had lost 4-7% body fat (range due to method "accuracy") even though I had gained some weight. So it's possible that you have made some progress without knowing it!

Yeah I am going to re-do a DEXA scan but not until after my races are done. I want to have a baseline for my bulk next fall, but don't want to spend the $ to do one right now. I bought calipers, but between my husband and I we're getting higher BF readings than I had with DEXA. I'm sure I haven't gained fat since I started lifting. I think we're just not doing it right.

Thanks for your feedback! I appreciate it.

michellekicks

Here's what jumped out at me. 1) Make sure you are well hydrated.

Yes. This kills me always. I have no natural thirst to speak of. I have to force about 1L daily. Working on it today...

2) You had success with the lifting, running, resting routine. So why not go back to that? I understand the need to prepare for your endurance events, so maybe just rest 1 day per week and alternate the running and lifting. Another option would be to add another cardio workout and try lifting just 2 days per week. If you have the time, you could also double up a day or two and combine your lifting with a shorter run.

Thanks! Yeah, you're suggesting basically the same thing as Heybales with the schedule he posted... I'm going to try that I think.

3) You are so close to your goal weight that I wonder if your deficit is too large. Try increasing your calories some and see if that helps. You have the benefit of knowing your TDEE, so you could be sure to not go over that. I know how frustrating it can be! I have been stuck for a year and I'm still searching for the right combination for me. Good luck!

Yeah I guess I just second-guess my TDEE since I should be seeing losses if my calculations are accurate. I guess I don't really see how 100 calories in either direction could have much impact. Maybe I should just quit trying to lose fat for now and just train for a bit.

Part of me is a little vain since I'd like the fat gone before Tough Mudder... see, that's also my 20 year high school reunion :laugh:

Thanks for your thoughts. Super helpful.

michellekicks

You need to train the anaerobic end, so it's as high as it can be, for those brief pushes that increase lactate acid, you want body trained to use that fast and get it out. So that's intervals or hill sprints.

Yeah I haven't been doing these much lately. Need to add back I suppose.

You need shorter run at race pace so body knows how this pace feels.

So hard to tell what that will be since I'll be running with a group. I may be the slowest; I may be the fastest. I haven't trained with these people. I think I might just pick a pace... like 10k race pace for tempo runs.

Now, if you had 3 days doing that, you can put in some upper body lifting days to keep that strong, and indeed in the 2 x 15-20 rep range. Even 1 lower body day to keep the strength potential up.

So 3 run days and 3 lifting days; 1 complete rest day.

Rest day.
Long run day lower aerobic HR zone.
Upper body lifting and walk or short run Recovery HR zone.
Interval/hill day.
Upper body lifting and walk.
Short run day upper aerobic HR zone.
Full body lifting and walk.

Thank you. I really like seeing it laid out like that... and 1 double-up day is no problem. I wish I could stick to a very specific training schedule, though, and I think that's why I have such a hard time sometimes. My husband works 4-on/4-off most of the time and the kids and I are on a 7 day week of course. So if he's working for 4, sometimes I can't get out to run... so then I have to switch things around and do them in a different order. My type A brain doesn't like that :laugh:

Confirm BodyMedia has the non-exercise part of your day correct. You have scanned LBM, and great Katch BMR estimate then.
Look at BodyMedia's night time calorie burn per min. Find the lowest one x 1440 - is that BMR close?

But test whatever you are going to use to estimate your calorie burns.
Lifting just use MFP, small and correct enough.

If using HRM or BodyMedia for running, I'd do the treadmill test to see how close it really is. Mine gave me the same estimates whether hill running or flat treadmill, as long as my feet turnover was the same - hence my distrust of it.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/774337-how-to-test-hrm-for-how-accurate-calorie-burn-is

The BMF had my exercise burns just about bang-on with my Garmin, so I don't doubt the accuracy from that perspective. I do feel, however, the overall burn measured by the BMF was a bit high. I'm going to check out the sleep data as you mentioned... and see if it lines up with my estimated BMR with the Katch formula.

Thanks for putting so much thought into this for me. Maybe I should try out your spreadsheet again. Last time I looked at it I thought my head might explode though :laugh:
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