RMR Testing - Question

ashleybreuer

Hello!

I had my RMR tested this morning after 12 hours of fasting/no exercise etc.

They predicted my RMR would be 1331 kcal/day but it came back at 1267 kcal/day (not too awful of a guestimate in my opinion). My rmr is 1267, they estimate my TDEE to be 1776 (with exercise, but they calculate exercise at only 30 mins a day with a 131 calorie burn). For maintenance they told me I should be eating 1500-1700 per day on the days I DON'T exercise but they didn't give me a calorie range for the days I do exercise. I wear a BMF so I find the number to be fairly accurate. Most days, with exercise I come in between 1850 - 2000 calories burned just depending on what I do for exercise and how active i am during the day (I have a desk job). I just switched to maintenance but for fat loss I was eating at 1650 calories per day. I guess I really have 2 questions:

1. Can I raise my RMR? I was hoping it would come back higher than it is but if I do a reset will that help raise my RMR?
2. If I do a reset, or eat at maintenance, how do I know how many calories I should be eating. Should I just eat 100% of what my BMF is saying that I burn (since it changes daily)? Do you feel the 150--1700 calorie range is correct if I decide to cut and lost fat/or a few more lbs? I have found that the BMF and RMR testing doesn't match the scooby calculators. I workout 7 days a week (over 30 minutes per day) but per my BMF I don't burn what the scooby calculator says I should being "moderately active" so I tend to believe that I'm "slightly active".

Thanks!
Ashley

aliciab307

I think rmr can only change if lbm increases or decreases.
Since you use bmf take the avg tdee and use that number for maintenance. If youve had a solid exercise routine for the past 14-21 days and a pretty consistent intake that data should be accurate. Depending on the intensity of your workouts you may be overtraining

CarrieStL

1. Can I raise my RMR? I was hoping it would come back higher than it is but if I do a reset will that help raise my RMR?
2. If I do a reset, or eat at maintenance, how do I know how many calories I should be eating. Should I just eat 100% of what my BMF is saying that I burn (since it changes daily)? Do you feel the 150--1700 calorie range is correct if I decide to cut and lost fat/or a few more lbs? I have found that the BMF and RMR testing doesn't match the scooby calculators. I workout 7 days a week (over 30 minutes per day) but per my BMF I don't burn what the scooby calculator says I should being "moderately active" so I tend to believe that I'm "slightly active".

I just went through this process as well, at a local university along with body composition via DEXA. From what I gathered, there are many factors that contribute to your RMR: muscle, age, genetics, metabolic stress/damage. He claimed, however, that the key to RMR is maintaining it and slightly improving it though once down- VERY difficult to raise. Eating enough, eating clean, being active, having a lot of muscle, and eating smaller more regular meals helps.

Your RMR seems super low. =(

ashleybreuer

1. Can I raise my RMR? I was hoping it would come back higher than it is but if I do a reset will that help raise my RMR?
2. If I do a reset, or eat at maintenance, how do I know how many calories I should be eating. Should I just eat 100% of what my BMF is saying that I burn (since it changes daily)? Do you feel the 150--1700 calorie range is correct if I decide to cut and lost fat/or a few more lbs? I have found that the BMF and RMR testing doesn't match the scooby calculators. I workout 7 days a week (over 30 minutes per day) but per my BMF I don't burn what the scooby calculator says I should being "moderately active" so I tend to believe that I'm "slightly active".

I just went through this process as well, at a local university along with body composition via DEXA. From what I gathered, there are many factors that contribute to your RMR: muscle, age, genetics, metabolic stress/damage. He claimed, however, that the key to RMR is maintaining it and slightly improving it though once down- VERY difficult to raise. Eating enough, eating clean, being active, having a lot of muscle, and eating smaller more regular meals helps.

Your RMR seems super low. =(

Agree - I was hoping for a higher RMR but was also glad to see that it wasn't under 1200 calories per day. For some reason I was thinking if I did a full reset, that resets typically help increase your RMR since your body is getting adequate nutrition/calories, etc. I could be wrong there.

not sure if it helps but here are my stats:
5 ft 3.5 inches
30 years old / female
120 lbs
13 - 14.9% body fat (I have this in a range because last I had caliper testing done i was 13.2% but the last time I used one of those hand held units at the gym it came in at 14.9%)
I tend to workout most days of the week, anywhere from 30-60 minutes but I have a desk job so i'm sitting for a vast majority of the day.

heybales

Hello!

I had my RMR tested this morning after 12 hours of fasting/no exercise etc.

They predicted my RMR would be 1331 kcal/day but it came back at 1267 kcal/day (not too awful of a guestimate in my opinion). My rmr is 1267, they estimate my TDEE to be 1776 (with exercise, but they calculate exercise at only 30 mins a day with a 131 calorie burn). For maintenance they told me I should be eating 1500-1700 per day on the days I DON'T exercise but they didn't give me a calorie range for the days I do exercise. I wear a BMF so I find the number to be fairly accurate. Most days, with exercise I come in between 1850 - 2000 calories burned just depending on what I do for exercise and how active i am during the day (I have a desk job). I just switched to maintenance but for fat loss I was eating at 1650 calories per day. I guess I really have 2 questions:

1. Can I raise my RMR? I was hoping it would come back higher than it is but if I do a reset will that help raise my RMR?
2. If I do a reset, or eat at maintenance, how do I know how many calories I should be eating. Should I just eat 100% of what my BMF is saying that I burn (since it changes daily)? Do you feel the 150--1700 calorie range is correct if I decide to cut and lost fat/or a few more lbs? I have found that the BMF and RMR testing doesn't match the scooby calculators. I workout 7 days a week (over 30 minutes per day) but per my BMF I don't burn what the scooby calculator says I should being "moderately active" so I tend to believe that I'm "slightly active".

RMR is tied to to your NON-fat mass, in otherwords LBM. Exercise improves that, cardio to the water part, lifting to the muscle part.
If you've been undereating by decent amount, it can be suppressed slightly too. Yes removing diet as a stress for a little while usually makes it go back up.

Your BMF would be the best guide unless a lot of your exercise time and big part of calorie burn is on activities it's going to underestimate. Like cycling, lifting, rowing, basically non-step related exercise. The farther you move from step related exercise, the more it loses accuracy.
And if that exercise is decent % of time and total calorie burn, then decently under-estimated.
The other part for you now, is it using the same BMR you have better calculated now?
It logs all non-moving time as BMR level burn even though it should be RMR if awake - unless the sensors are good at reading you, and then it might read higher.

7 days a week exercise is just stress if eating at a deficit, no way around that. Even pro's eating at maintenance or above recognize benefit from keeping exercise in it's place.
Doesn't matter that you are sitting rest of the day. In fact, just moving all day and no exercise would be better for you. Frequent intense exercise is a stress on the body, you start adding other stresses and it'll be a negative effect in general at the worst, at the best you just won't get the improvements you could get if you did it better.

As to the info regarding RMR, is it in line with your LBM, and was that a tested or measured value from scale or tapes or other?

Also, that low BF% for a woman is actually stressful on the body too. Female athletes have several hormonal stress challenges, and if eating at a deficit, you have another problem there.

So what's the goal in general, hopefully not weight with that great BF%. Perhaps just fueling better performance gains in your sport?

To see if your BMF can have better estimate, use this.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker

Now, this is a weight loss calculator which you don't need, so just stick with the TDEE values.
Start on the Simple Setup tab and enter your stats down to the Activity Calc, don't need to use it ever or maybe yet depending on your options.
Go to the FitBit_BodyMedia tab.
Enter in your tested RMR there, it'll show you what the Katch BMR would be equal to that RMR.

Go in to your BodyMedia site and look at your sleep time, see what the lowest or avg if it alternates cal/min burn you see, multiply by 1440 - that's what BMF is saying your BMR is.
And should know, do you see your sitting at work time as that same low BMR, or is it slightly higher?
Avg cal/min there x 1440 should be your tested RMR value.

Back to spreadsheet, it'll show the height to change on the BMF site so it's using starting BMR closer to your tested BMR.
If the height is just a little off, you were close enough, if much shorter, than it is suppressed metabolism.

Now below you can right now pick your option. I'd go for the first one, totally adjust your day depending on your exercise done. So this will help setup your MFP settings to better match BMF, though you may be hard pressed to find a sedentary day to use.

Then make the noted changes, except don't manually change the eating goal since you want to be at maintenance.

ninababie2

!!! I hope those that tested your %body fat told you that women need 17% to be able to maintain a healthy functioning body. Please don't be trying to lose more weight!

ashleybreuer

Hello!

I had my RMR tested this morning after 12 hours of fasting/no exercise etc.

They predicted my RMR would be 1331 kcal/day but it came back at 1267 kcal/day (not too awful of a guestimate in my opinion). My rmr is 1267, they estimate my TDEE to be 1776 (with exercise, but they calculate exercise at only 30 mins a day with a 131 calorie burn). For maintenance they told me I should be eating 1500-1700 per day on the days I DON'T exercise but they didn't give me a calorie range for the days I do exercise. I wear a BMF so I find the number to be fairly accurate. Most days, with exercise I come in between 1850 - 2000 calories burned just depending on what I do for exercise and how active i am during the day (I have a desk job). I just switched to maintenance but for fat loss I was eating at 1650 calories per day. I guess I really have 2 questions:

1. Can I raise my RMR? I was hoping it would come back higher than it is but if I do a reset will that help raise my RMR?
2. If I do a reset, or eat at maintenance, how do I know how many calories I should be eating. Should I just eat 100% of what my BMF is saying that I burn (since it changes daily)? Do you feel the 150--1700 calorie range is correct if I decide to cut and lost fat/or a few more lbs? I have found that the BMF and RMR testing doesn't match the scooby calculators. I workout 7 days a week (over 30 minutes per day) but per my BMF I don't burn what the scooby calculator says I should being "moderately active" so I tend to believe that I'm "slightly active".

RMR is tied to to your NON-fat mass, in otherwords LBM. Exercise improves that, cardio to the water part, lifting to the muscle part.
If you've been undereating by decent amount, it can be suppressed slightly too. Yes removing diet as a stress for a little while usually makes it go back up.

Your BMF would be the best guide unless a lot of your exercise time and big part of calorie burn is on activities it's going to underestimate. Like cycling, lifting, rowing, basically non-step related exercise. The farther you move from step related exercise, the more it loses accuracy.
And if that exercise is decent % of time and total calorie burn, then decently under-estimated.
The other part for you now, is it using the same BMR you have better calculated now?
It logs all non-moving time as BMR level burn even though it should be RMR if awake - unless the sensors are good at reading you, and then it might read higher.

7 days a week exercise is just stress if eating at a deficit, no way around that. Even pro's eating at maintenance or above recognize benefit from keeping exercise in it's place.
Doesn't matter that you are sitting rest of the day. In fact, just moving all day and no exercise would be better for you. Frequent intense exercise is a stress on the body, you start adding other stresses and it'll be a negative effect in general at the worst, at the best you just won't get the improvements you could get if you did it better.

As to the info regarding RMR, is it in line with your LBM, and was that a tested or measured value from scale or tapes or other?

Also, that low BF% for a woman is actually stressful on the body too. Female athletes have several hormonal stress challenges, and if eating at a deficit, you have another problem there.

So what's the goal in general, hopefully not weight with that great BF%. Perhaps just fueling better performance gains in your sport?

To see if your BMF can have better estimate, use this.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker

Now, this is a weight loss calculator which you don't need, so just stick with the TDEE values.
Start on the Simple Setup tab and enter your stats down to the Activity Calc, don't need to use it ever or maybe yet depending on your options.
Go to the FitBit_BodyMedia tab.
Enter in your tested RMR there, it'll show you what the Katch BMR would be equal to that RMR.

Go in to your BodyMedia site and look at your sleep time, see what the lowest or avg if it alternates cal/min burn you see, multiply by 1440 - that's what BMF is saying your BMR is.
And should know, do you see your sitting at work time as that same low BMR, or is it slightly higher?
Avg cal/min there x 1440 should be your tested RMR value.

Back to spreadsheet, it'll show the height to change on the BMF site so it's using starting BMR closer to your tested BMR.
If the height is just a little off, you were close enough, if much shorter, than it is suppressed metabolism.

Now below you can right now pick your option. I'd go for the first one, totally adjust your day depending on your exercise done. So this will help setup your MFP settings to better match BMF, though you may be hard pressed to find a sedentary day to use.

Then make the noted changes, except don't manually change the eating goal since you want to be at maintenance.

Heybales - thanks so much for all the information. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the information that is on the spreadsheet and I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me?

1. I'm on the simple setup tab and you stated not to use the activity calculator since i'm looking to maintain my current weight, so do I just leave the information that is already pre-populated in the activity calculator or should I delete it all so that there is nothing in those boxes?

2. It's telling me my BMR is 1371 (Katch) and that my TDEE (without added in exercise) is 1713; so on my nonworkout days i should eat a minimum of 1713 correct?

3. The majority of my workouts have been lifting. I'm just coming off a metatarsal stress fracture so cardio has been limited, and when i've been able to do it, it was mainly cycling. But i was lifting for about 6 days a week (about 30 minutes a day with a trainer). Now i'm slowly easing back into running, only 3 days a week for 20 minutes max (1 minute runs, with 2 minute walk intervals).

4. My BMF averages anywhere from 1750 - 2000 calories per day (TDEE) just depending on my workout and how much i move around during the day. I'm sure if i were more sedentary and didn't workout it would be in line with my TDEE above (1713)

5. On the fitbit/BMF tab when i enter my tested RMR (1267) it suggests that i delete it since it's more than 5% less than calculated. So If i delete the 1267 what should I use as my RMR? It's telling my my Cunningham RMR is 1519 (i'm confused on this value since it's so different from my Katch BMR above at 1371). I get kind of lost on this page because whatever value i put in the yellow tested RMR cell adjusts my Katch BMR (above it's 1371 from the simple set up tab, but this page is calculating it around at 1123 based off my tested RMR of 1267).

6. My lowest sleep calories burned was 0.9 so when i multiply by 1440 i get 1296 as my BMF BMR

Thanks for your help! sorry if i'm making this too difficult I just want to make sure i'm eating adequately. I'm at a happy weight (120) and i know my body fat is low, but with my height, what body fat i have is actually very visible on me (stomach, heavy(ish) thighs). My ultimate goal is to tone up and eventually bulk just a little because i'd love to add some LBM but I want to do it in a clean/healthy way.

heybales

Heybales - thanks so much for all the information. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the information that is on the spreadsheet and I was wondering if you could answer a few questions for me?

1. I'm on the simple setup tab and you stated not to use the activity calculator since i'm looking to maintain my current weight, so do I just leave the information that is already pre-populated in the activity calculator or should I delete it all so that there is nothing in those boxes?

2. It's telling me my BMR is 1371 (Katch) and that my TDEE (without added in exercise) is 1713; so on my nonworkout days i should eat a minimum of 1713 correct?

3. The majority of my workouts have been lifting. I'm just coming off a metatarsal stress fracture so cardio has been limited, and when i've been able to do it, it was mainly cycling. But i was lifting for about 6 days a week (about 30 minutes a day with a trainer). Now i'm slowly easing back into running, only 3 days a week for 20 minutes max (1 minute runs, with 2 minute walk intervals).

4. My BMF averages anywhere from 1750 - 2000 calories per day (TDEE) just depending on my workout and how much i move around during the day. I'm sure if i were more sedentary and didn't workout it would be in line with my TDEE above (1713)

5. On the fitbit/BMF tab when i enter my tested RMR (1267) it suggests that i delete it since it's more than 5% less than calculated. So If i delete the 1267 what should I use as my RMR? It's telling my my Cunningham RMR is 1519 (i'm confused on this value since it's so different from my Katch BMR above at 1371). I get kind of lost on this page because whatever value i put in the yellow tested RMR cell adjusts my Katch BMR (above it's 1371 from the simple set up tab, but this page is calculating it around at 1123 based off my tested RMR of 1267).

6. My lowest sleep calories burned was 0.9 so when i multiply by 1440 i get 1296 as my BMF BMR

Thanks for your help! sorry if i'm making this too difficult I just want to make sure i'm eating adequately. I'm at a happy weight (120) and i know my body fat is low, but with my height, what body fat i have is actually very visible on me (stomach, heavy(ish) thighs). My ultimate goal is to tone up and eventually bulk just a little because i'd love to add some LBM but I want to do it in a clean/healthy way.

1 - True, delete the sample data that is not yours.

2 - FitBit_BodyMedia tab or Simple Setup tab?
Simple Setup assumes sedentary for those that don't have those devices - but you do.
If BodyMedia tab, and that's what your rest day TDEE is according to the device, then true.
As to method you want to use, just depends. You can spread your calorie burn out over the week and therefore eat the same daily, or really eat for what you burn each day.

3 - Device will underestimate lifting calories, but right on for the jog/walking really well. Cycling is off too when that starts up.

4 - Probably a tad more with device underestimating (usually) lifting calories.

5 - It tells you if the Katch is based on your tested RMR, or your bodyfat%. And as the note says - you do have a very suppressed RMR then, way outside the 5% expected variance. So you don't want to eat to it, or you'll just keep it suppressed. It'll be hard to come by exercise improvements if your body is already slowing things down because you undereat.

So you follow the instructions - you delete your tested RMR. You don't use it. You go for the calculated values of what it should be around. You don't enter anything there then, it's done for you.

The confusion is from not understanding the difference between RMR and BMR.
So RMR is higher than BMR. BMR is basal energy, most basic body functions. RMR is resting, awake, higher level body functions.
Cunningham RMR should be higher than Katch BMR.

6 - So your device has kind of seen the fact you have a lowered BMR, and has adjusted it down from the calculated value based on the sensors. It's just not low enough for where you really are. But again, you don't want to eat for where it's at and keep metabolism suppressed.

Since you might like to raise your metabolism, to be able to eat more, and really improve the body from exercise, I'm going to suggest you skip the BMF for now for total logging.
Go ahead and adjust the height as shown so you can start getting better TDEE estimates for your non-moving time (the device uses BMR for that time.)

So you do want to get this adjust before you try to bulk, because you'd start eating extra calories, but it wouldn't really be in excess, it would just raise your metabolism - so might as well start now.

I'd use the Method 1, and pick sample days that are NOT lifting days, but the cardio days it will be good at measuring, Enter in a sample of rest days and cardio days in the cells, and follow those instructions then, except when it says to change calories to a deficit amount, you remember to stick with TDEE values all around.
And you'll log your lifting workouts manually, using MFP's low estimate (but true), and eat all those back on days you do them.
You'll also keep the sync going, on some days you'll get more, on some days less, and adjust your eating accordingly.

I'd go back to the TDEE values for 7 days in about a month, and hope the BMF has adjusted it's BMR value up, thereby giving you better accuracy. The walking still will be, it's the non-moving time.

lilvonne80

Which method did they use to test your RMR. I too have been doing the same types of test over the past 2 weeks. I had a BOD POD done that tested me at 35.9% body fat with a RMR of 1280. Then a week later I had my RMR tested using eith Meta Check thing where you breathe into a tube and my RMR was 1685 that is a whole heck of a difference. I wonder which one is more accurate. the RMR and numbers I got using the meta Check where right in line with my BODY MEDIA in regards to calories I actually burn in the day. The detician put me on 1800 a day to start out which is 25% deficit.... but still within my mainence zone, with 40/30/30 macros. I did not hit that number yesterday... No even close, so we shall see how this works. I go back next week so she can adjust my numbers based off of my body media and my MFP entries.

heybales

Which method did they use to test your RMR. I too have been doing the same types of test over the past 2 weeks. I had a BOD POD done that tested me at 35.9% body fat with a RMR of 1280. Then a week later I had my RMR tested using eith Meta Check thing where you breathe into a tube and my RMR was 1685 that is a whole heck of a difference. I wonder which one is more accurate. the RMR and numbers I got using the meta Check where right in line with my BODY MEDIA in regards to calories I actually burn in the day. The detician put me on 1800 a day to start out which is 25% deficit.... but still within my mainence zone, with 40/30/30 macros. I did not hit that number yesterday... No even close, so we shall see how this works. I go back next week so she can adjust my numbers based off of my body media and my MFP entries.

Bodpod does NOT measure RMR, it measures fat mass, and of course with your weight, LBM. That is all.

As I discuss above, you can calculate expected RMR from your LBM, as well as BMR from it too. That is all they do. And by itself, that is the best estimate to BMR and RMR.

Unless you have an actual RMR test, in which case that is actual measurement. And those tests will sometimes then estimate your bodyfat and LBM, but from calculation, not measurement of course.

So that means you have a better RMR than expected for your LBM.
According to just LBM calc, your RMR is estimated to be 1280.
But RMR actually tested to 1685.

If your BodyMedia is saying your avg TDEE value is around 1685 - it is very wrong.
RMR - Resting Metabolic Rate, is exactly how you tested it - laying back resting - you do that all day long?

The BMF starts with calculating your BMR using gender, age, weight, height. It then tries to adjust that based on what the sensors see at night.
Some people it adjusts correctly, some not at all. Yours is not.
Read my post several above yours.

You have a higher RMR than expected, no need suppressing it by eating way too little.

Now, for that RMR test since many testers do it wrong, no food for 6-8 hrs previous, did not work out 24 hrs prior?

ashleybreuer

Which method did they use to test your RMR. I too have been doing the same types of test over the past 2 weeks. I had a BOD POD done that tested me at 35.9% body fat with a RMR of 1280. Then a week later I had my RMR tested using eith Meta Check thing where you breathe into a tube and my RMR was 1685 that is a whole heck of a difference. I wonder which one is more accurate. the RMR and numbers I got using the meta Check where right in line with my BODY MEDIA in regards to calories I actually burn in the day. The detician put me on 1800 a day to start out which is 25% deficit.... but still within my mainence zone, with 40/30/30 macros. I did not hit that number yesterday... No even close, so we shall see how this works. I go back next week so she can adjust my numbers based off of my body media and my MFP entries.

Bodpod does NOT measure RMR, it measures fat mass, and of course with your weight, LBM. That is all.

As I discuss above, you can calculate expected RMR from your LBM, as well as BMR from it too. That is all they do. And by itself, that is the best estimate to BMR and RMR.

Unless you have an actual RMR test, in which case that is actual measurement. And those tests will sometimes then estimate your bodyfat and LBM, but from calculation, not measurement of course.

So that means you have a better RMR than expected for your LBM.
According to just LBM calc, your RMR is estimated to be 1280.
But RMR actually tested to 1685.

If your BodyMedia is saying your avg TDEE value is around 1685 - it is very wrong.
RMR - Resting Metabolic Rate, is exactly how you tested it - laying back resting - you do that all day long?

The BMF starts with calculating your BMR using gender, age, weight, height. It then tries to adjust that based on what the sensors see at night.
Some people it adjusts correctly, some not at all. Yours is not.
Read my post several above yours.

You have a higher RMR than expected, no need suppressing it by eating way too little.

Now, for that RMR test since many testers do it wrong, no food for 6-8 hrs previous, did not work out 24 hrs prior?

The RMR test I had done was where you breathe into the tube for about 10 minutes. I fasted for 12 hours before and no exercise within 12 hours (their request), no caffeine, water, etc. When I got there they put me in a darkened room and had me sit on a folding chair to 'relax' for 10 minutes. then I stayed on the same folding chair while they performed the test. They said the machines has an accuracy of like 98% but i'm toying with the idea of a retest at a different location. However, I do not want to enable a suppressed RMR so I am going through the calculations you gave me above. The simple set up is saying, without activity, my TDEE is 1713 but when I go to the FB/BFM page I am using method 1 where i enter in 7 nonexercise days and then eat that PLUS exercise calories. It's telling me my TDEE (without exercise or with exercises like cycling, rowing, lifting) is 1802 per day and then eat back exercise calories.

ashleybreuer

Dumb Question - the BMF/FB page is telling me to adjust my height to 87.15 inches so that would put my BMF set up as 7 ft 2 inches for the height change. Does that sound correct?


Your Information *** Or spreadsheet File - Download as Excel, to change the values ***
(Enter your stats on the Simple Setup tab) *** Only change cells in yellow ***
Gender (M/F) f Red is for current weight.
Age 30 or Metric Blue is based on goal weight.
Current Weight lbs 120 Current kg Green is the info to enter in to MFP.
Height inches 63.5 Height cm
Final Goal Weight lbs 120 Goal kg
Current Body Fat % (optional) 14.9
Current Lean Body Mass lbs 102.1 (used in Katch/Cunningham formula as best BMR/RMR estimate)
Projected BF% if LBM kept 14.9 (this may not be realistic, you may lose or gain some LBM)

Tweaking FB or BMF
Tested RMR if known - Calculated Cunningham RMR: 1,519
Katch BMR: 1,371 based on BF%
Mifflin BMR: 1,241 based on gender, age, weight, height
The BMR's used are more than 50 calories different and height adjustment would help


FB & BMF use a BMR value as foundation to estimating sleeping, non-moving, and slow moving calorie burn.
For those devices to use the better estimated Katch BMR based on BF% or tested RMR, height can be changed.
As stats change, this will change too.
Change the height on the device's site for your profile to: 87.15 inch If you change the height, you'll need updated stats for below after a couple weeks with new setting.
FB stride length will need to be manually entered.

heybales

Dumb Question - the BMF/FB page is telling me to adjust my height to 87.15 inches so that would put my BMF set up as 7 ft 2 inches for the height change. Does that sound correct?


Your Information *** Or spreadsheet File - Download as Excel, to change the values ***
(Enter your stats on the Simple Setup tab) *** Only change cells in yellow ***
Gender (M/F) f Red is for current weight.
Age 30 or Metric Blue is based on goal weight.
Current Weight lbs 120 Current kg Green is the info to enter in to MFP.
Height inches 63.5 Height cm
Final Goal Weight lbs 120 Goal kg
Current Body Fat % (optional) 14.9
Current Lean Body Mass lbs 102.1 (used in Katch/Cunningham formula as best BMR/RMR estimate)
Projected BF% if LBM kept 14.9 (this may not be realistic, you may lose or gain some LBM)

Tweaking FB or BMF
Tested RMR if known - Calculated Cunningham RMR: 1,519
Katch BMR: 1,371 based on BF%
Mifflin BMR: 1,241 based on gender, age, weight, height
The BMR's used are more than 50 calories different and height adjustment would help


FB & BMF use a BMR value as foundation to estimating sleeping, non-moving, and slow moving calorie burn.
For those devices to use the better estimated Katch BMR based on BF% or tested RMR, height can be changed.
As stats change, this will change too.
Change the height on the device's site for your profile to: 87.15 inch If you change the height, you'll need updated stats for below after a couple weeks with new setting.
FB stride length will need to be manually entered.

Yep, since they are using a BMR calculation based on gender, age, weight, and height, the only stat there that changes the BMR enough to match your better calculated one, is height. If you were trying make BMF match your suppressed BMR, you'd have to lower the height.
Age doesn't change it enough.
Weight is used for calculating moving calories, so can't change that.
Gender isn't enough either.
Height is it. Since your possible BMR is higher than what they are using, height is how to get their calculation higher.

Couple others had to max it out an 9ft whatever it allowed.
They also found it took about 2 weeks for the night time adjustment to go to new value. And they found their exercise was more correctly logged. They'd always wondered why only 15 min of their 35 min workout showed an increase in intensity for that time, after the change they got the whole 35 min seen correctly.

You will have to adjust your stride length to manual setting, default setting based on height will be wrong now. That would effect your moving calorie burns.

Treadmill works great for that. Count steps doing a known distance of say 0.1 mile or such.

ashleybreuer

Dumb Question - the BMF/FB page is telling me to adjust my height to 87.15 inches so that would put my BMF set up as 7 ft 2 inches for the height change. Does that sound correct?


Your Information *** Or spreadsheet File - Download as Excel, to change the values ***
(Enter your stats on the Simple Setup tab) *** Only change cells in yellow ***
Gender (M/F) f Red is for current weight.
Age 30 or Metric Blue is based on goal weight.
Current Weight lbs 120 Current kg Green is the info to enter in to MFP.
Height inches 63.5 Height cm
Final Goal Weight lbs 120 Goal kg
Current Body Fat % (optional) 14.9
Current Lean Body Mass lbs 102.1 (used in Katch/Cunningham formula as best BMR/RMR estimate)
Projected BF% if LBM kept 14.9 (this may not be realistic, you may lose or gain some LBM)

Tweaking FB or BMF
Tested RMR if known - Calculated Cunningham RMR: 1,519
Katch BMR: 1,371 based on BF%
Mifflin BMR: 1,241 based on gender, age, weight, height
The BMR's used are more than 50 calories different and height adjustment would help


FB & BMF use a BMR value as foundation to estimating sleeping, non-moving, and slow moving calorie burn.
For those devices to use the better estimated Katch BMR based on BF% or tested RMR, height can be changed.
As stats change, this will change too.
Change the height on the device's site for your profile to: 87.15 inch If you change the height, you'll need updated stats for below after a couple weeks with new setting.
FB stride length will need to be manually entered.

Yep, since they are using a BMR calculation based on gender, age, weight, and height, the only stat there that changes the BMR enough to match your better calculated one, is height. If you were trying make BMF match your suppressed BMR, you'd have to lower the height.
Age doesn't change it enough.
Weight is used for calculating moving calories, so can't change that.
Gender isn't enough either.
Height is it. Since your possible BMR is higher than what they are using, height is how to get their calculation higher.

Couple others had to max it out an 9ft whatever it allowed.
They also found it took about 2 weeks for the night time adjustment to go to new value. And they found their exercise was more correctly logged. They'd always wondered why only 15 min of their 35 min workout showed an increase in intensity for that time, after the change they got the whole 35 min seen correctly.

You will have to adjust your stride length to manual setting, default setting based on height will be wrong now. That would effect your moving calorie burns.

Treadmill works great for that. Count steps doing a known distance of say 0.1 mile or such.

Thanks! Since I don't have a Fitbit i don't need to worry about adjusting the stride length correct? I am so excited about this. Currently I have my BMF set at the 1713 BMR calculated (without exercise) and I am using that as my TDEE for now and will eat at least that on nonworkout days. I'm going to give the BMF a few days so that I can get some better exercise numbers to plug into the FB/BMF spreadsheet to get a more accurate TDEE for workout days.

THANK YOU!

heybales

Thanks! Since I don't have a Fitbit i don't need to worry about adjusting the stride length correct? I am so excited about this. Currently I have my BMF set at the 1713 BMR calculated (without exercise) and I am using that as my TDEE for now and will eat at least that on nonworkout days. I'm going to give the BMF a few days so that I can get some better exercise numbers to plug into the FB/BMF spreadsheet to get a more accurate TDEE for workout days.

THANK YOU!

Correct on stride length, thinking wrong device.

Remember if you have the device synced with MFP, you'll automatically get workout day adjustments.

The only reason you might want to change those 7 sedentary day changes, is because the device shows a more accurate TDEE on rest days, and those averages go up.

ashleybreuer

Thanks! Since I don't have a Fitbit i don't need to worry about adjusting the stride length correct? I am so excited about this. Currently I have my BMF set at the 1713 BMR calculated (without exercise) and I am using that as my TDEE for now and will eat at least that on nonworkout days. I'm going to give the BMF a few days so that I can get some better exercise numbers to plug into the FB/BMF spreadsheet to get a more accurate TDEE for workout days.

THANK YOU!

Correct on stride length, thinking wrong device.

Remember if you have the device synced with MFP, you'll automatically get workout day adjustments.

The only reason you might want to change those 7 sedentary day changes, is because the device shows a more accurate TDEE on rest days, and those averages go up.

Should I allow negative calorie adjustment on MFP (i have it turned off right now)

Thanks!
Ashley

heybales

Thanks! Since I don't have a Fitbit i don't need to worry about adjusting the stride length correct? I am so excited about this. Currently I have my BMF set at the 1713 BMR calculated (without exercise) and I am using that as my TDEE for now and will eat at least that on nonworkout days. I'm going to give the BMF a few days so that I can get some better exercise numbers to plug into the FB/BMF spreadsheet to get a more accurate TDEE for workout days.

THANK YOU!

Correct on stride length, thinking wrong device.

Remember if you have the device synced with MFP, you'll automatically get workout day adjustments.

The only reason you might want to change those 7 sedentary day changes, is because the device shows a more accurate TDEE on rest days, and those averages go up.

Should I allow negative calorie adjustment on MFP (i have it turned off right now)

Thanks!
Ashley

Yes, method 1 says negative and positive. Because you took avg just to prevent big adjustments outside exercise, but there are differences both ways potentially.

ashleybreuer

Thanks! Since I don't have a Fitbit i don't need to worry about adjusting the stride length correct? I am so excited about this. Currently I have my BMF set at the 1713 BMR calculated (without exercise) and I am using that as my TDEE for now and will eat at least that on nonworkout days. I'm going to give the BMF a few days so that I can get some better exercise numbers to plug into the FB/BMF spreadsheet to get a more accurate TDEE for workout days.

THANK YOU!

Correct on stride length, thinking wrong device.

Remember if you have the device synced with MFP, you'll automatically get workout day adjustments.

The only reason you might want to change those 7 sedentary day changes, is because the device shows a more accurate TDEE on rest days, and those averages go up.

Should I allow negative calorie adjustment on MFP (i have it turned off right now)

Thanks!
Ashley

Yes, method 1 says negative and positive. Because you took avg just to prevent big adjustments outside exercise, but there are differences both ways potentially.

Ok a few last questions now that i've made all my settings changes

1. I set my calorie goal on MFP as 1713 (my calculated tdee on the spreadsheet, simple setup, without exercise) and set my goals to sedentary and maintain weight with 0 workouts per week. It tells me that MFP calculates my TDEE as around 1550 per day but i'm still going to eat 1713. Does my setup sound correct? I did turn on the negative calorie adjustment. I think i'm going to match my eating with my daily burn based of BMF that way i'm eating TDEE every day - that should be about the same as eating back my exercise calories correct? So if BMF says i burned 2000 calories i should eat 2000 calories?

2. Do I need to change my METS on BMF? On my old setup (before adjusting the height) I would maybe log 1 - 1.5 hours of moderate activity a day (almost like it wasn't logging alot of my walking during the day, normal everyday walking) but now it seems like it's logging everything. Today i'm already at 3+ hours of moderate activity and I only went to the gym for an hour today and i've only hit 6155 steps, and my calorie burn has SIGNIFICANTLY increased. I've already logged a 'burn' of over 1900 calories today and it used to be a stretch to hit over 1800 before I adjusted my height setting. I'm just a bit paranoid now that i'm overestiming my burns and exercise. I did change my mets for vigorous activity. I set it at a 7 (default was 6) because it was logging my super easy 1 minute runs (at 4.3 mph) as 'vigorous' so I changed it so it's a bit 'harder' to hit my vigorous activity but i'm wondering if i need to change the mets for moderate activity so it's not overestimating my burn based on my day to day normal activities?

BTW - My gym time today was 45 minutes lifting and 20 minutes elliptical and over that time frame it says I burned a bit over 300 calories, when before it would tell me that i barely burned 150 during the same time frame. This might make sense why one day on the elliptical, while wearing my HRM, the elliptical and my HRM told me I burned 380 calories but my BMF said I only burned around 220 or so. So it's totally possible it was underestimating the entire time?

3. How did you know that BMF uses the least calorie per hour while I sleep X 1440 to get my BMR (just strictly out of curiosity). You are a wealth of knowledge and i'm totally intrigued with how you learned all of this information.

4. What is the purpose of the Cunningham RMR? This number is really high at 1519 so it seems liek the least accurate out of the Katch and Mifflin RMR's posted, just trying to figure out what it's purpose is on the BMF/FB spreadsheet

THANK YOU!

heybales

Ok a few last questions now that i've made all my settings changes

1. I set my calorie goal on MFP as 1713 (my calculated tdee on the spreadsheet, simple setup, without exercise) and set my goals to sedentary and maintain weight with 0 workouts per week. It tells me that MFP calculates my TDEE as around 1550 per day but i'm still going to eat 1713. Does my setup sound correct? I did turn on the negative calorie adjustment. I think i'm going to match my eating with my daily burn based of BMF that way i'm eating TDEE every day - that should be about the same as eating back my exercise calories correct? So if BMF says i burned 2000 calories i should eat 2000 calories?

2. Do I need to change my METS on BMF? On my old setup (before adjusting the height) I would maybe log 1 - 1.5 hours of moderate activity a day (almost like it wasn't logging alot of my walking during the day, normal everyday walking) but now it seems like it's logging everything. Today i'm already at 3+ hours of moderate activity and I only went to the gym for an hour today and i've only hit 6155 steps, and my calorie burn has SIGNIFICANTLY increased. I've already logged a 'burn' of over 1900 calories today and it used to be a stretch to hit over 1800 before I adjusted my height setting. I'm just a bit paranoid now that i'm overestiming my burns and exercise. I did change my mets for vigorous activity. I set it at a 7 (default was 6) because it was logging my super easy 1 minute runs (at 4.3 mph) as 'vigorous' so I changed it so it's a bit 'harder' to hit my vigorous activity but i'm wondering if i need to change the mets for moderate activity so it's not overestimating my burn based on my day to day normal activities?

BTW - My gym time today was 45 minutes lifting and 20 minutes elliptical and over that time frame it says I burned a bit over 300 calories, when before it would tell me that i barely burned 150 during the same time frame. This might make sense why one day on the elliptical, while wearing my HRM, the elliptical and my HRM told me I burned 380 calories but my BMF said I only burned around 220 or so. So it's totally possible it was underestimating the entire time?

3. How did you know that BMF uses the least calorie per hour while I sleep X 1440 to get my BMR (just strictly out of curiosity). You are a wealth of knowledge and i'm totally intrigued with how you learned all of this information.

4. What is the purpose of the Cunningham RMR? This number is really high at 1519 so it seems liek the least accurate out of the Katch and Mifflin RMR's posted, just trying to figure out what it's purpose is on the BMF/FB spreadsheet

THANK YOU!

1 - Well, you don't use the Simple Setup instructions for changing your goals if you want to sync the BMF and it's readings. You want to use the FitBit_BodyMedia tab.
So from 7 non-exercise days you found the avg was what? That is your non-exercise TDEE you might say, what MFP calls maintenance.
So the results gives you a BMR and multiplier to take to the MFP tweak tab.
Fill in those cells on that tab.
That will now show the deficit you get and the eating goal.
There you will be told the things to change in MFP like activity level and macros and eating goal. Sedentary is not correct I think, but maybe it was with suppressed metabolism.
Then you will get adjustments for walking/jogging. Log your lifting manually, and use the MFP Tweak tab to enter the MFP calorie burn for lifting and time spent, it shows in a column how much to actually log and eat that back. Don't have to do that each workout, enter some standard burns and times and just note what they are.

2 - has no bearing on any math, merely for your visual entertainment. The actual calorie burn is based on weight, not height. Once the BMR adjusts to proper level, those will probably come down somewhat. If not, your activity is probably at that MET level.

3 - I have one, and their FAQ mentions they used the Harris BMR as the foundation to start with. Then they must adjust it with the sensor readings at night, because most don't have their Harris BMR when you do the math, it's adjusted it. For many, the difference between Harris BMR and reality is to great, so it adjusts, but not enough. So the height change is attempt to get it closer, so it can adjust easier. It was also during this discovery by asking many on MFP, it was found for some the sensor aren't as good as they are for others, so their daytime sitting is also BMR level, others have it adjusted correctly higher as it should be.

4 - Comparison to tested RMR. You couldn't get a BMR test even if you wanted to pay for it probably. But RMR is available everywhere. Katch and Mifflin are BMR calculations, not RMR. RMR is higher than BMR. BMR is basal, sleeping basically. RMR is resting, awake basically. It has to be higher. But if you know measured RMR, you can backtrack to BMR.

ashleybreuer

Ok a few last questions now that i've made all my settings changes

1. I set my calorie goal on MFP as 1713 (my calculated tdee on the spreadsheet, simple setup, without exercise) and set my goals to sedentary and maintain weight with 0 workouts per week. It tells me that MFP calculates my TDEE as around 1550 per day but i'm still going to eat 1713. Does my setup sound correct? I did turn on the negative calorie adjustment. I think i'm going to match my eating with my daily burn based of BMF that way i'm eating TDEE every day - that should be about the same as eating back my exercise calories correct? So if BMF says i burned 2000 calories i should eat 2000 calories?

2. Do I need to change my METS on BMF? On my old setup (before adjusting the height) I would maybe log 1 - 1.5 hours of moderate activity a day (almost like it wasn't logging alot of my walking during the day, normal everyday walking) but now it seems like it's logging everything. Today i'm already at 3+ hours of moderate activity and I only went to the gym for an hour today and i've only hit 6155 steps, and my calorie burn has SIGNIFICANTLY increased. I've already logged a 'burn' of over 1900 calories today and it used to be a stretch to hit over 1800 before I adjusted my height setting. I'm just a bit paranoid now that i'm overestiming my burns and exercise. I did change my mets for vigorous activity. I set it at a 7 (default was 6) because it was logging my super easy 1 minute runs (at 4.3 mph) as 'vigorous' so I changed it so it's a bit 'harder' to hit my vigorous activity but i'm wondering if i need to change the mets for moderate activity so it's not overestimating my burn based on my day to day normal activities?

BTW - My gym time today was 45 minutes lifting and 20 minutes elliptical and over that time frame it says I burned a bit over 300 calories, when before it would tell me that i barely burned 150 during the same time frame. This might make sense why one day on the elliptical, while wearing my HRM, the elliptical and my HRM told me I burned 380 calories but my BMF said I only burned around 220 or so. So it's totally possible it was underestimating the entire time?

3. How did you know that BMF uses the least calorie per hour while I sleep X 1440 to get my BMR (just strictly out of curiosity). You are a wealth of knowledge and i'm totally intrigued with how you learned all of this information.

4. What is the purpose of the Cunningham RMR? This number is really high at 1519 so it seems liek the least accurate out of the Katch and Mifflin RMR's posted, just trying to figure out what it's purpose is on the BMF/FB spreadsheet

THANK YOU!

1 - Well, you don't use the Simple Setup instructions for changing your goals if you want to sync the BMF and it's readings. You want to use the FitBit_BodyMedia tab.
So from 7 non-exercise days you found the avg was what? That is your non-exercise TDEE you might say, what MFP calls maintenance.
So the results gives you a BMR and multiplier to take to the MFP tweak tab.
Fill in those cells on that tab.
That will now show the deficit you get and the eating goal.
There you will be told the things to change in MFP like activity level and macros and eating goal. Sedentary is not correct I think, but maybe it was with suppressed metabolism.
Then you will get adjustments for walking/jogging. Log your lifting manually, and use the MFP Tweak tab to enter the MFP calorie burn for lifting and time spent, it shows in a column how much to actually log and eat that back. Don't have to do that each workout, enter some standard burns and times and just note what they are.

2 - has no bearing on any math, merely for your visual entertainment. The actual calorie burn is based on weight, not height. Once the BMR adjusts to proper level, those will probably come down somewhat. If not, your activity is probably at that MET level.

3 - I have one, and their FAQ mentions they used the Harris BMR as the foundation to start with. Then they must adjust it with the sensor readings at night, because most don't have their Harris BMR when you do the math, it's adjusted it. For many, the difference between Harris BMR and reality is to great, so it adjusts, but not enough. So the height change is attempt to get it closer, so it can adjust easier. It was also during this discovery by asking many on MFP, it was found for some the sensor aren't as good as they are for others, so their daytime sitting is also BMR level, others have it adjusted correctly higher as it should be.

4 - Comparison to tested RMR. You couldn't get a BMR test even if you wanted to pay for it probably. But RMR is available everywhere. Katch and Mifflin are BMR calculations, not RMR. RMR is higher than BMR. BMR is basal, sleeping basically. RMR is resting, awake basically. It has to be higher. But if you know measured RMR, you can backtrack to BMR.

Ok I know it's only been a few days but I feel like my numbers are 'off' on what my BMF is telling me on my burns. I adjusted my height numbers as seen above and in the past, it was a stretch to hit anywhere from 1800-2000 calorie burn a day, i had to work really hard to break 1900. Now today, it's not even 11pm and my BMF is saying i've burned almost 2400 calories. It says I burned 2382 yesterday, and i'm slated to burn 2542 today. However I worked out longer and harder yesterday, and took more steps throughout the day so i'm a bit confused on how i'm burning more today than i would have yesterday. Also it seems crazy to me that i'm this 'easily' burning 2400 calories in a day when before it seemed like it was impossible to hit the 2000 mark. Am I crazy or is this normal?

heybales

Ok I know it's only been a few days but I feel like my numbers are 'off' on what my BMF is telling me on my burns. I adjusted my height numbers as seen above and in the past, it was a stretch to hit anywhere from 1800-2000 calorie burn a day, i had to work really hard to break 1900. Now today, it's not even 11pm and my BMF is saying i've burned almost 2400 calories. It says I burned 2382 yesterday, and i'm slated to burn 2542 today. However I worked out longer and harder yesterday, and took more steps throughout the day so i'm a bit confused on how i'm burning more today than i would have yesterday. Also it seems crazy to me that i'm this 'easily' burning 2400 calories in a day when before it seemed like it was impossible to hit the 2000 mark. Am I crazy or is this normal?

I mentioned at least once, BMF adjusts the calculated BMR based on night time sensor reading, which may or may not adjust to what your BMR really is.

The height change is the attempt to allow BMF to start closer, so less adjustment.

But it already had it adjusted, and you just changed the height.

It will take several days for it to adjust correctly.

The FAQ on their site also states that it takes a week or two for it to initially adjust, prior to that you may get readings that don't appear again.
Review your numbers when you first started using it, first week.
What was the night time cal/min, the daytime resting watching TV cal/min, exercise, ect. Then 3 weeks later what was it.

It must adjust.

Also remember, you are trying to base it on the real potential BMR, not your currently suppressed BMR. You eat to your suppressed metabolism, and deficit, you keep it there.