Slow Recovery After Workout Issue

x_JT_x

Sorry if this has been discussed before. I looked for a 'search' button but there doesn't seem to be one within the groups themselves.

I lift 3 x a week, doing a full body routine each day which takes me 1.5 - 2 hrs to complete. I take a protein shake with me and drink it in the car on the way home and am making sure to hit (or to be as near as I can be) my protein goal, especially on lift days. On non-lift days I'm a bit lower. I'm finding on lift days that after I leave the gym I am spent. Not just tired, but pretty much exhausted. Getting through the rest of the day is tough. Is there something nutrition-wise that I'm missing? Is this just a lack of endurance thing that will get better over time? Any other ideas that might help with recovery? I'd really prefer to stick to the full body schedule but being effectively out of commision three days a week is becoming a problem.

Sarauk2sf

1.5 - 2 hours is quite long. What routine are you doing? Also, what is your caloric deficit?


And the lack of search function in groups is annoying - but I think this is something not covered specifically before anyway.

x_JT_x

Hi Sara,

Right now I'm working with a combination of machines and free weights. As far as the machines go I do 3 x 12 of each of the following:

Leg Press
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Triceps Extention
Triceps Pull Down
Vertical Chess Press
Vertical Row
Ab machine (sorry, can't remember what this is called off the top of my head)
Back machine (again, can't remember the name)
Weight Assisted Pull Ups (3 x 8 overhand and 2 x 12 underhand)
Weight Assisted Dips

Free weights:

Bicep curls
Alternating Overhead Press
Side Shuffles
Russian Marching with medicine ball
RDL's

I then do 30 min. walking on the treadmill at 4.0 mph and an incline of 2.

Regarding my caloric deficit, I'm trying to keep my calories up to 1800 at the moment (per my intake thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/949373-needing-advice-at-goal-weight-but-high-body-fat) so my deficit is about 200 or so ( a little more/a little less some days).

Sarauk2sf

That is a lot of volume. Would you be open to changing up your routine to make it more efficient so you do not spend so long in the gym?

x_JT_x

I would love to hear what you have in mind. I don't mind spending the time in the gym but if my workout could be more efficient and get me out of there sooner, I'm all for that. I haven't mentioned to my trainer how wiped out I am after a session. All he knows is that I really want to work hard so that's what he's given me to do.

SideSteel

Yeah, that routine needs some adjustments IMO. Not saying that to be rude but there's a lot of room to streamline that. We'll take a look at it.

ArroganceInStep

Yeah, that routine needs some adjustments IMO. Not saying that to be rude but there's a lot of room to streamline that. We'll take a look at it.

Oh, me! Tag me in, coach!

Edit: your workouts, is that what you do with your trainer?

x_JT_x

Yeah, that routine needs some adjustments IMO. Not saying that to be rude but there's a lot of room to streamline that. We'll take a look at it.

Awesome! Thank you! And no worries, no offense taken. I asked because I'm looking for advice. I stated what I did re: my trainer to be fair to him since I've not brought this up to him. He's a great guy who's been in the fitness industry for 30+ years. He's incredibly knowledgeable and I've no doubt that he knows his stuff but I wonder sometimes if he isn't just a little too 'old school'. He's given me some great advice but I do wonder if there isn't a better approach or other options to what I'm currently doing.

x_JT_x

Oh, me! Tag me in, coach!

Edit: your workouts, is that what you do with your trainer?

Yes. I do the same as above 3 x a week. And I work with the trainer every session.

I don't know if it has any bearing on why he's given me this particular list of lifts/exercises or not, but I had fairly low muscle mass and strength when we started 6 weeks ago. To give you an idea, when doing alternating bicep curls I still can only do them with an 8lb weight and even those are tough to complete 3 x 12 on my left side, right side is stronger. I am definitely seeing improvement in strength in all areas though.

ArroganceInStep

Consider the implication walking in and suggesting a complete revamp of the workout would have on your relationship with your trainer. While someone from here might be able to give advice on how to create a solid program, it could strain your relationship with your trainer (it shouldn't, but the industry is f'd up like that).

What I'd suggest you do before anything is talking to your trainer about incorporating more compound exercises with dumbbells and barbells and that you're interested in focusing a bit more on strength training. See what he comes back with.

The stuff that I would be suggesting (it'd very likely be similar to what SideSteel would suggest too) is not new, in fact it's more 'old school' than a lot of training methods out there today. I'm not trying to question your trainer either; many legit trainers are pigeon holed into providing training that is sub-optimal. It stems, in my opinion, from the general culture around fitness: lots of people want to get fit but don't necessarily want to put in the work required to do so. The general concepts that have been around for a long time are effective, but they aren't fun or exciting or whatever, they're damn hard actually.

x_JT_x

Consider the implication walking in and suggesting a complete revamp of the workout would have on your relationship with your trainer. While someone from here might be able to give advice on how to create a solid program, it could strain your relationship with your trainer (it shouldn't, but the industry is f'd up like that).

What I'd suggest you do before anything is talking to your trainer about incorporating more compound exercises with dumbbells and barbells and that you're interested in focusing a bit more on strength training. See what he comes back with.

The stuff that I would be suggesting (it'd very likely be similar to what SideSteel would suggest too) is not new, in fact it's more 'old school' than a lot of training methods out there today. I'm not trying to question your trainer either; many legit trainers are pigeon holed into providing training that is sub-optimal. It stems, in my opinion, from the general culture around fitness: lots of people want to get fit but don't necessarily want to put in the work required to do so. The general concepts that have been around for a long time are effective, but they aren't fun or exciting or whatever, they're damn hard actually.

Thanks for your perspective. I get what you're saying and can see how that could be an issue with a trainer. Honestly, I don't think this particular one would see it that way. He's very laid back and very approachable. He truly just wants to help people. Plus, wanting to wean off the machines wouldn't be a surprise to him. He knows I drive 45 min. each way to work with him and both his and my ultimate goal is to get me to a point where I can work out at home for the most part. I'm working with him so heavily right now for two reasons: 1) I'm very new at this and 2) I'm trying to drain my flex spending account before our contract comes due again at the end of June so we don't lose the money to the government.

PriceK01

That does seem like a lot of volume. Is he having you up your carb intake on lifting days?

x_JT_x

That does seem like a lot of volume. Is he having you up your carb intake on lifting days?

We haven't really talked about nutrition other than his concern that I get enough protein each day and to make a point of getting some in during that hour window after a workout.

I just checked the last two weeks worth and I'm averaging 212 g carbs on lift days. No clue whether that's sufficient or not. I generally pay attention to calories & protein, then try and see that I don't go too far over on fat. Carbs just sort of fall where they may.

x_JT_x

I talked to my trainer today, telling him how wiped out I've been feeling after my lifting sessions. His reply: "Then we're doing something wrong." He said I should feel like I worked out but still be able to go about an average day afterward. He said we have a number of options: 1) I can continue with the workout I have, up the weight a little bit but drop back to 2 sets instead of 3, 2) I can up the weight even more and do one set to failure on each lift, or 3) Do upper body one day, lower body the next and alternate between the two.

Today we went with option #2 so he can get an idea of what my maxes are at this point. Which honestly still seem low to me, although they are definitely improved all around from when I started 6 weeks ago. I'm so used to feeling so completely done that I'm not sure how to gauge today. I'm a bit fatigued but not overly so and I'm certainly able to function. However, part of me is concerned that long term this wouldn't be enough to see the results that I'm looking for. My main goal is dropping body fat and secondary to that, gaining strength. Opinions? or Options?

Sarauk2sf

Did he give the rationale for doing a set to failure? What type of reps range are you expecting to do to failure?

x_JT_x

For the rep range, he said if I could do between 15 - 20 then my weight was too low and I could increase it. If the reps were under 15 then the weight was at a good point. As far as the rationale for doing so, after talking with him throughout the session I think he's under the impression that my main goal is to gain strength. Admittedly, I have remarked to him on more than one occassion how 'wimpy' I feel. What I think is going on is that I wear a warm-up suit to work out and I weigh 130 lbs. I look good in clothes. Meaning that if I wear long pants and long sleeves, it is very deceiving. Other than my hips being a little big, you'd have no idea looking at me that I have the body fat percentage that I do. Fully clothed, I look very fit. I think I need to make him more aware of what my predominate goal is.

I'm pretty sure doing max reps to failure is not what I want or need. Just not sure what it is that I do need. While I was feeling so wiped out doing the 3 x 12 sets, I was seeing results. Meaning I was losing inches. That's what I want. I just also want to be able fo function a little better the rest of the day. Does that make sense?

Sarauk2sf

Do you vary your calories based on lifting v non lifting days?

ArroganceInStep

Dd your trainer say anything about free weights?

x_JT_x

Do you vary your calories based on lifting v non lifting days?

I tend to eat a little more, 100 - 200 cals on lifting days because I find I'm much hungrier. Although I generally wait until the end of the night to eat any extra. Maybe I should make a point of eating a bit extra after the workout? Maybe that would give me more energy?

x_JT_x

Dd your trainer say anything about free weights?

I do use some free weights for bicep curls, overhead presses and RDL's (all dumb bells). He said he's not a fan of barbells when you know you have one stonger and one weaker side. The stronger side tends to try and compensate. He said he prefers dumb bells to force the weaker side to do the work. He's also said that he's not a fan of putting a heavy weighted bar on the back of the neck at our age. I'm 49. I've tried barbell squats though and they don't bother me.

ArroganceInStep

Dd your trainer say anything about free weights?

I do use some free weights for bicep curls, overhead presses and RDL's (all dumb bells). He said he's not a fan of barbells when you know you have one stonger and one weaker side. The stronger side tends to try and compensate. He said he prefers dumb bells to force the weaker side to do the work. He's also said that he's not a fan of putting a heavy weighted bar on the back of the neck at our age. I'm 49. I've tried barbell squats though and they don't bother me.

I agree with that, the barbell on the neck thing not so much, but meh. Honestly I'd say focus on communicating your goals better with your trainer and see what he can come back with. I can sit here and theorycraft your program all day but it's different when your working with someone IRL, and you might as well get what you can out of your sessions. Some of the 'smaller' movements I've found to help me TREMENDOUSLY. My trainer has me doing this little thing with like 5 or 10 lbs weights called dumbbell rotator cleans. It's really a major isolation exercise, but it helps my bench a lot because it keeps my cuffs healthy.

When your sessions are done, I'd suggest looking into a more generalized strength training program, and supplementing it with any exercises you're doing with your trainer that you really like.

For what it's worth I think you're doing a lot of isolation work that could be covered with barbell movements.

Squats, Reverse Lunges, Incline Press, Barbell Rows, and Deadlifts would all help you build strength and would help with body composition assuming your diet is in order. Since he doesn't like squats, ask him about the other lifts maybe?

Sarauk2sf

Do you vary your calories based on lifting v non lifting days?

I tend to eat a little more, 100 - 200 cals on lifting days because I find I'm much hungrier. Although I generally wait until the end of the night to eat any extra. Maybe I should make a point of eating a bit extra after the workout? Maybe that would give me more energy?

Eating more earlier may help - it is worth a try.

x_JT_x

Dd your trainer say anything about free weights?

I do use some free weights for bicep curls, overhead presses and RDL's (all dumb bells). He said he's not a fan of barbells when you know you have one stonger and one weaker side. The stronger side tends to try and compensate. He said he prefers dumb bells to force the weaker side to do the work. He's also said that he's not a fan of putting a heavy weighted bar on the back of the neck at our age. I'm 49. I've tried barbell squats though and they don't bother me.

I agree with that, the barbell on the neck thing not so much, but meh. Honestly I'd say focus on communicating your goals better with your trainer and see what he can come back with. I can sit here and theorycraft your program all day but it's different when your working with someone IRL, and you might as well get what you can out of your sessions. Some of the 'smaller' movements I've found to help me TREMENDOUSLY. My trainer has me doing this little thing with like 5 or 10 lbs weights called dumbbell rotator cleans. It's really a major isolation exercise, but it helps my bench a lot because it keeps my cuffs healthy.

When your sessions are done, I'd suggest looking into a more generalized strength training program, and supplementing it with any exercises you're doing with your trainer that you really like.

For what it's worth I think you're doing a lot of isolation work that could be covered with barbell movements.

Squats, Reverse Lunges, Incline Press, Barbell Rows, and Deadlifts would all help you build strength and would help with body composition assuming your diet is in order. Since he doesn't like squats, ask him about the other lifts maybe?

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to talk to him on Friday and see if we can't sort this out a bit better. It's not that he doesn't like squats. He does. Just not with a barbell. But he loves plie squats with a kettlebell.

I really would like to move away from some of the machines and focus more on free weights. He's pretty easy going and very easy to work with so I don't think it would be an issue at all.

ArroganceInStep

Do you vary your calories based on lifting v non lifting days?

I tend to eat a little more, 100 - 200 cals on lifting days because I find I'm much hungrier. Although I generally wait until the end of the night to eat any extra. Maybe I should make a point of eating a bit extra after the workout? Maybe that would give me more energy?

Eating more earlier may help - it is worth a try.

You could also try eating more the night before too.

x_JT_x

Do you vary your calories based on lifting v non lifting days?

I tend to eat a little more, 100 - 200 cals on lifting days because I find I'm much hungrier. Although I generally wait until the end of the night to eat any extra. Maybe I should make a point of eating a bit extra after the workout? Maybe that would give me more energy?

Eating more earlier may help - it is worth a try.

You could also try eating more the night before too.

I'm a bit hesitent to eat much more the night before because I'm already pretty much eating at maintenance. I guess in my mind I don't mind eating a little more the day of the workout because I feel like I've earned it with the extra calorie expenditure. Maybe that's not a valid concern on my part, I don't know. I'm still pretty new to trying to balance this all out.

But I really appreciate the input guys! Thank you!!

x_JT_x

A quick update to say 'Thank you!' for the push to rtalencar85. I talked to my trainer on Friday and told him I wanted to move away from the machines to primarily free weights. His eyes lit up. For whatever reason, he was under the impression that I preferred the machines. He told me he much prefers free weights and we got started setting up a routine. He still talks about his preference for dumb bells over barbells and I get the impression that my being female is holding him back a bit for fear of 'over-training'. Not so sure he understands how motivated I am. But we'll see how things play out from here.

I typically eat breakfast at 7am and hit the gym at 10:30 with nothing to eat in between. Friday I munched on a protein bar during the drive out, had my protein shake in the car on the ride home (45 min) and then a serving of cottage cheese as soon as I got in the door. According to my BodyMedia Link I burned the same number or calories Friday as I generally did with the machines but felt so much better throughout the rest of the day. That really wasn't much in the way of additional calories than what I generally have but it seems to have made a difference. So, once again...Thanks, guys!!

ArroganceInStep

A quick update to say 'Thank you!' for the push to rtalencar85. I talked to my trainer on Friday and told him I wanted to move away from the machines to primarily free weights. His eyes lit up. For whatever reason, he was under the impression that I preferred the machines. He told me he much prefers free weights and we got started setting up a routine. He still talks about his preference for dumb bells over barbells and I get the impression that my being female is holding him back a bit for fear of 'over-training'. Not so sure he understands how motivated I am. But we'll see how things play out from here.

I typically eat breakfast at 7am and hit the gym at 10:30 with nothing to eat in between. Friday I munched on a protein bar during the drive out, had my protein shake in the car on the ride home (45 min) and then a serving of cottage cheese as soon as I got in the door. According to my BodyMedia Link I burned the same number or calories Friday as I generally did with the machines but felt so much better throughout the rest of the day. That really wasn't much in the way of additional calories than what I generally have but it seems to have made a difference. So, once again...Thanks, guys!!

Glad you're enjoying your workout. That's awesome!

Sarauk2sf

Locking so we can keep track of active threads. If you wish for the thread to be unlocked so you can ask further questions, please feel free to PM either myself or SideSteel, including a link to this thread and we will unlock it so you can.