Also, it occurs to me...

The Christians will think what they're gonna think. Sometime I like to argue with them. Sometimes I really just don't care. You know, sometimes I AM a depressed atheist. *kitten* 'em if they point and laugh. I prefer to be honest with myself. Because as much as I really don't want to spend an afterlife with any god I've ever heard of, it might be nice to see my grandparents again. And the fact that I won't is sad. That's reality. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

If it gives someone meaning to live a good life so god will let them see their grandparents again, even if it's false, it still gives them meaning. I envy them their delusions sometimes.

And if you think that makes me a bad atheist, *kitten* you too. :laugh:

Also, it occurs to me...

The Christians will think what they're gonna think. Sometime I like to argue with them. Sometimes I really just don't care. You know, sometimes I AM a depressed atheist. *kitten* 'em if they point and laugh. I prefer to be honest with myself. Because as much as I really don't want to spend an afterlife with any god I've ever heard of, it might be nice to see my grandparents again. And the fact that I won't is sad. That's reality. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

If it gives someone meaning to live a good life so god will let them see their grandparents again, even if it's false, it still gives them meaning. I envy them their delusions sometimes.

And if you think that makes me a bad atheist, *kitten* you too. :laugh:

I'm not bothered what xians believe, so long as they're not spouting those beliefs as if they should have the force of law and be enforced by the government. And I couldn't care less if you don't care if you're depressed. But atheism doesn't cause depression. The vast majority of atheists are happy, well adjusted and consider life meaningful. I can't imagine why you'd envy someone a delusion. So they waste the only life they get chasing a pipe dream of what they'll get in heaven? Do you also envy the muslim jihadists the 72 virgins they believe they'll get in heaven for entirely giving up the only life they'll get? That isn't meaning. Giving up false beliefs allows you to derive true meaning, in place of the illusion religion gives.

Have you considered an atheistic religion in your search for meaning? Like Buddhism or Jainism? Sam Harris has many good things to say about the Jains.

The last 6 posts have all been argumentative. Which, as I mentioned, is exaclty what I was hoping to not have.

Thanks for killing my thread. Insert [expletive]

I suspect that is the cause of your meaninglessness. You expect to be able to control the entire world. This is an internet forum. You don't "own" a thread just because you start it. You label all dissent "argumentative," despite dissent being the best way for knowledge to grow.

For me, being an atheist frees me. I'm able to look at the world without having to place a pretend answer to it which gives me the feeling I suppose as religion can to some. I'm not bound to anything. Maybe you can take a break from the debating, the arguments, etc that goes on between atheists and theists and just start looking at the world for what it is and how truly amazing it can be, you can probably look at it with a better view then some theists can. It may not give a purpose to you as an individual but its truly awesome on what life is able to do.

One of things I love to read about and nearly obsessed with is the cognitive skills we are finding our with animals more and more, I know this isn't necessarily an 'atheist' activity but its just interesting to witness what life does and able to enjoy this without having to debate it in my head if I am going against some belief or faith, I can just simply enjoy. Sorry if this isn't more helpful but its the only advice I can give.

My individual purpose, it may not be a major one but I have purpose to my friends and family and to myself . I'm glad I get to enjoy the time I do have and get to witness so many different things even if they are little, something I could never done if I wasn't here at all and I can do it all by my own steps, not the steps of some religious institution that may not have my best interest in mind.

adamsurpren, I'm guessing you were religious before from your post but now instead of just having a purpose of having to worship a God you can now make a purpose for yourself, whatever purpose you want. Kind of like a cause if that would help you. Maybe volunteer and get active in something you are passionate about. ( I don't know you so don't know if you do or not already) and create the purpose you want for yourself.

It's all in the evolution, baby! Note, you ask a deep question, it better have a nice, deep answer...which takes time to explain, so let this be a continuing conversation, please!

Here's the thing. The first ringing in my mind of importance and purpose started when thinking about, of all things, insects. When we kill an ant, is it different than when we kill another human? We can add all sorts of moral 'consider-this' situations like 'has the person done something to deserve it?' 'what are the reasons you killed the person?' and on and on, but this is unnecessary rhetoric until we answer the question in it's simple form. It's hard to explain without a certain degree of scientific background, but the beauty of it, is any answer that is based on Science is one that you can learn and repeat, should it help you in developing your purpose.

When we kill an ant, is it different than when we kill another human? The answer is both yes an no. Life and the universe is a means of probability. Let me explain. Bear with me here. You may have heard of the particle/wave duality of electrons, for example. If you send a single electron through a single slit in a piece of material, whatever detector you have behind the material to track the path of the electron will always show in one spot. (behind the slit) Like a single particle. But if you had two slits in that material, you'll have the particle hit the detector behind the material in a patterned array of points. In fact, it waves out from behind the two slits, where it is to hit is anyone's guess on any particular shot, but over time, it ends up landing on multiple points greater than the number of slits. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_tNzeouHC4) this is a great video to explain this better.

The reason for this puzzling concept is probability. At any given time, the electron can be in any of a number of random places that would be consistent with that of a wave of material. A single slit gives you no option but through or not. Two slits leaves the probability of going through one slit, the other, both slits, or none. So, what does this mean to the poor ant and fellow? We, living things, started out in the most simplistic of terms. 5 specific amino acids that joined with phosphorus and simple sugars. A chemical reaction that, based on the probability of whichever molecule was attracted to an ever growing chain of them (what we refer to as DNA and RNA) developed different chains. From this point forward in all of our history, environmental factors both natural and developed (other chains and eventually organisms), allowed for the greater probability to succeed. For example, a needed amino acid for two chains will attach to one, taking away from the other. One then continues the attraction, the other either finds another of the same amino acid, a different one that also attracts, or it has insufficient material to proceed to do anything until the chain eventually breaks down, leaving raw, complex material for other chains to utilize. Because of these chemical reactions, the better the environment for continued molecular attraction, and the more complex the strands get.

Ok, Over 3.7 billion years to current day, and along the way countless forms growing, replicating, taking over their environments, environments changing letting other things suddenly take over instead...it's a matter of time scale with this one that you have to grasp here, there have been patterns in the probability of 'success'. Think of it in terms of waves. You yourself can do something that affects the different aspects of the environment around you. People interact with you altering or confirming the course of actions you take, for example. It's no different from a single electron. We can use specific terms of measurement to see what these patterns are. Scientists like to have big names, but there is always a layman's term for it too, should you not want to memorize them all.

Scientists label them according to what we call our Phylogenetic Tree. They label specifics like is it an animal? (animalia) is it a prokaryote? (Largely single celled organisms without a nucleus) Is it a Eukaryote (Multi celled organisms with complex parts to their cells) for example. I was never an evolutionary biologist, I was more in to astrophysics (which connecting the two is a long conversation for another time). But this is where it fascinated me. The patterns throughout life based on probability were the result of essentially two diverging groups of increasing DNA complexity. Two slits in the options of propagation. Self sufficient sustainability or Cooperative sustainability. Cells of DNA that complimented each other and attracted while maintaining their distinctive characteristics as single cells often put both cells into a more sustainable situation. This is our most basic instinct. Every living thing is characterized by "Can I be self sufficient or is self perpetuation more probable by teaming up?". (Side note: You know what usually wins? Self sustainability! Consider the number of single celled organisms compared to more complex forms of life. We are vastly outnumbered. Mutation and adaptation occur more easily the less complex the item is. What is 'their' purpose?"

This is where we fast forward to today. Self sustainability, I would argue, is only a luxury we've increasingly been able to afford as we (humans) become better at shaping our environment to allow much more diversity to thrive. Thus, we have an option in purpose we've only vaguely questioned until our world as we've shaped it has allowed us to consider a broader range. You won't find one purpose fits all, for by nature of the existence of life since the beginning has been what manages to perpetuate forward is that which has been given a choice of how to continue to interact with the world around it. Leaving posterity to continue, creating ideas that perpetuate, developing physical landmarks that far outlast our particular genetic make up's ability to not collapse...your purpose is your choice in legacy and you can find endless examples of how countless individuals and groups alike have established their own.

Granted, no legacy is just as much an option. A man who never considers the power of this thought process tends to die as fruitlessly as the ant squished on the sidewalk. The woman who chooses a method of legacy is given that choice by the decisions and developments of every man and woman that came before her in her family line.

I choose to not have kids, though I'm 28 so I have time to change that...probably ... but my legacy is with my music and ultimately the science I can share with people struggling to find purpose in atheism. I perpetuate myself until I have given all that I want to give or have been fortunate to have time to give, and then my time is up.

And what about you, the poor fellow who will eventually die. What worth can you see after you can no longer feel worth? Well, this is where I step away from the specificity of reality in science and give you my objectified opinion. We are all made up of the same atoms that were once, more than 5 billion years ago, formed in the heart of a star. It exploded, formed a new star and system we know as our own. These same molecules, present in small bits of asteroid and meteor and proto-planet, combine and collide to create a planet we know as our own. The simple molecular attractions from that original "Star Dust" (as Sagan would put it) developed and allowed for more complex molecular attractions forming a type of life that we know as our own. And from that life, individuals rise and fall creating folks like einstein. Gallileo. creating folks like hitler and like Bin laden. Forcing us into a question of whether we are better for the environment around us or worse compared to everyone and everything else fighting to answer that question in the affirmative. It created folks like me and you wanting an answer to purpose, a vestigial question from a day of religion and superstition. When you break down and can no longer perpetuate yourself, your molecules become part of everything and everyone moving forward. We cannot answer the question of purpose any longer on a human scale. We have to push farther forward in time. We have to consider the big picture of everything. And that is this. Whoever or whatever is left to see the last of whatever is left, will finally have the option to say "this has been the purpose of it all". Not where we're from, but where we're going. It's a question that is leveled in duality. It is a single purpose for that individual, and a wave of purposes that made it possible for the individual to exist.

From a matter of perspective, until we die, we are that last individual from a line of everything that came before us, unless we leave something behind that can impact something going forward a little longer.

I went through a rough time during my deconversion as most ex believers do, where I had to reassess what meaning my life had now that I had accepted that there was most likely nothing after this life. It was difficult to even imagine after having believed for so long that life went on eternally after death, in either heaven or hell, and having been thoroughly indoctrinated, conditioned and brainwashed for nearly 50 years, it took time and intense soul searching to find new meaning for this limited life I do have on Earth. One thing I realized that helped was that there was nothing to fear about death now, for myself or anyone I knew. I no longer had to pray for the lost souls or envision millions of people suffering in hell for not believing the right thing, which of course every believer claims to know "the one true path" that leads to salvation while all other creeds are destined for eternal damnation.

After a period of mourning the "death" of my heavenly father, who I had always believed loved and cared about me more than any human being every could, who I had trusted to always be there, to listen to and answer my prayers and to welcome me into heaven when I died; and Jesus my savior who I always believed had suffered and died an agonizing death in my place, for my sins, who was tenderhearted and compassionate, understood my human weaknesses, was extremely forgiving, and would lift me back up whenever I fell spiritually, it finally dawned on me that God didn't really die or abandon me, and I wasn't really turning my back on him, I had just come to the life changing conclusion that they didn't exist and never had. If there was a God, it was definitely not the God of the Bible, but not wanting to let go entirely, I became a Deist, then eventually an Agnostic Deist, then an Agnostic Atheist, and now I just consider myself an Atheist, seeing no evidence of a God whatsoever.

As for my eventual death cancelling out any meaning for my life today, tomorrow or the next however many days or years I might have left, I don't feel that at all. To me it's like saying "next week it's not going to matter if I have dinner tonight, so I might as well not eat". While in reality it does matter to me tonight, so I will eat whether it makes a difference to me next week or not, and I will enjoy it! Sure it still saddens me occasionally when I think about the finality of death now, whereas when I was a believer there was the hope of glory, something to look forward to at the end of life to help make dying easier. But it was all just false hope, so nothing was really lost except in my imagination. When I think about where I was and where I am now however, I would not choose to go back. I'd rather live my life in a bitter sweet reality than in an ignorant blissful mythology.

Hi, i haven't read all the posts above, just jumping in.

I have been atheist probably longer than most of you have been alive.
I am NOT living for a prize and big party after i am dead.

My life has the meaning i choose to give it.
As an atheist,
i have lived a very very full, meaningful life, full of joy and love,
and
i have also experienced times of loss and aching and not great times.

both experiences
were largely my choice,
and the bummer times had zero to do with not believing in an afterlife.


In many ways, i find being an atheist extremely comforting, as religion always hurt my head and caused emotional static, cuz it made zero sense to me once i reason the age of reason in my teens. (although i grew up in an extremely devoutly religulous family).


I find doing good things,
for the sake of being good,
is extremely rewarding. It's been eons since i ever did anything good to earn possible points for a dead-person-party, so i can't really remember
nor compare
the two types of joy there.

but, atheists can fill their own world,
their own life,
with whatever purpose they choose for themselves.

Each of us in unique,
and each of us has to find what fulfills THEM.
For me, it's always been the same things that bring me meaning, satisfaction, inner growth, and peace,
and those things include
doing charity work
helping others
deep friendships and love,
involving myself in causes i believe in,
and
learning new things.
to name just a few.


as well as fun. Yes, fun. Having fun IS one of my goals,:laugh: a necessary part of my life, that i need to keep going, to be "me", to enjoy life to it's fullest.