2 - Every society idolizes previous generations. From Homer's Iliad to the Old Testament, heroes of the past are a foundation of practically all great myths.

3 - I'm not sure we should criticize people for whining about having to go die in Iraq or Afghanistan. You can hardly compare it in to WWII. Not sure what people in Iraq are dying for, but it's most certainly not our safety. But I dont want to get into a political discussion. Suffice to say WWII was very different from now, and losing that war would have had terrible consequences for the world. And I think most people understood it at the time, as well.

--P

Completely agree, it is also not a fair comparison giving the sources. You can't compare present day first hand accounts with accounts of people remembering 60 years ago and/or movie depictions (particularly World War II movies, half of which are glorizations or pure propoganda). I don't know many people that go around complaining about stuff in their distant past, but I am willing to bet GI's werent walking through France in 1944 humming John Phillip Sousa anthems with a rosy outlook. Another previous generation, that of most of this groups fathers who went to Vietnam (or avoided it) didn't get quite the rosy treatment from the media and were often depicted as malcontent.

Really?

No, I think men today are more manly. They cry and express their fears and anger and arent afraid of having a discussion about being manly!!

Men of yesteryear used to beat their wives and children and hide behind a pint of beer because they were emotionally suppressed! That's just cowardly!!

They could fix things because they weren't expected to go to school and get an education, they were expected to go out to their manual job and put food on the table.

Amen for progression! :flowerforyou:

I think the points raised about emotional expression and education are very interesting and fairly accurate. However, the generalization that most men used to beat their wives, and fewer do today, is not valid.

No, I think men today are more manly. They cry and express their fears and anger and arent afraid of having a discussion about being manly!!

Men of yesteryear used to beat their wives and children and hide behind a pint of beer because they were emotionally suppressed! That's just cowardly!!

They could fix things because they weren't expected to go to school and get an education, they were expected to go out to their manual job and put food on the table.

Amen for progression! :flowerforyou:

I think the points raised about emotional expression and education are very interesting and fairly accurate. However, the generalization that most men used to beat their wives, and fewer do today, is not valid.

Well, lets just say 100 years ago it was an acceptable norm, but today domestic violence is an imprison-able offence.

Sorry to generalise, that's not my intent. My point was just about emotional expression being more acceptable these days :flowerforyou:

Yes, that makes sense.

2 - Every society idolizes previous generations. From Homer's Iliad to the Old Testament, heroes of the past are a foundation of practically all great myths.

3 - I'm not sure we should criticize people for whining about having to go die in Iraq or Afghanistan. You can hardly compare it in to WWII. Not sure what people in Iraq are dying for, but it's most certainly not our safety. But I dont want to get into a political discussion. Suffice to say WWII was very different from now, and losing that war would have had terrible consequences for the world. And I think most people understood it at the time, as well.

--P

Completely agree, it is also not a fair comparison giving the sources. You can't compare present day first hand accounts with accounts of people remembering 60 years ago and/or movie depictions (particularly World War II movies, half of which are glorizations or pure propoganda). I don't know many people that go around complaining about stuff in their distant past, but I am willing to bet GI's werent walking through France in 1944 humming John Phillip Sousa anthems with a rosy outlook. Another previous generation, that of most of this groups fathers who went to Vietnam (or avoided it) didn't get quite the rosy treatment from the media and were often depicted as malcontent.

Really?

Most people fight in wars because they feel it is their duty not because they want to actually fight or die for their country. Most people I know that fought in a war/conflict, Vietnam and after don't even want to discuss what they have gone through, my father and uncles being included. If you look at the majority of homeless men over the years you would find they fought in one war or another and couldn't find jobs when they came back.

I am very aware of the homeless population in this country, considering that is what I do for a living. Actually, veterans do not make up the majority of homeless in the country.

As far as the emotional expression... I certainly don't want a guy that cries on a regular basis. crying in general makes me really uncomfortable, I despise it when anyone cries including myself. Though I excuse it if it's something that's understandable (death of a loved one, injury). On the flip side I don't like yelling screaming fights either. I much more prefer emotionally controlled logical discussions about problems that reach resolutions.

I do also prefer the "manly" hands on type of guy. I have no problem getting dirty doing my own minor car maintenance or working in the yard. If he's afraid of messing up his manicure (or *gasp* developing a callous!) then it's just not going to work. One of my exes once sent me a text because he was sooooo excited that he got three nice button up shirts for only $50!! Tell me that if it has something to do with comic books or something that I care about.

I guess what it boils down to is that I'm pretty "manly" when it comes to comparing myself to other women... so I appreciate a man that's manlier than that. If I wanted a woman I would be a lesbian. I get frustrated with "girly" things if I'm surrounded by it too much. At best I tune it out.

Though can we really judge whether a populace as a whole was manly or not? We didn't live "back then" so it makes sense all we hear about now is the sensationalized stuff. It's like people assuming that all Americans are fat, crass and stupid because all we have to judge is the extremes you see on television (Biggest Loser, Jersey Shore, etc). I'm sure just like always people have and will be individuals - we just happen to live in a time when things like men getting their nails done isn't taboo anymore. There are women that appreciate that and women that don't. Are women less feminine now that we focus less on cleaning the house and more on fitness than the fifties?

So, my first reaction was YES they are less manly, but as I read through the posts and reconsidered, here's what I really think.

I believe in the past, there were more clearly defined "acceptable" gender roles. These things are said or done by men, and these are by women.

The difference with today is that the line is more blurred. Not only do men seem less manly, but women seem less feminine (not all, just a generalization).

When I left college with an engineering degree, I joined a workforce of mostly men, so I dressed less feminine and toughened up.... then I realized I missed feeling like a GIRL. So now I wear skirts, and get pedicures, etc... BUT I sure don't want any man thinking I have to do all the cooking or that a vacuum is an appropriate gift, haha....

So I don't think it's less manly, it's just a blurring of the lines of traditional gender roles...Make sense? I think it's true for men and women...

I typed this long @ss post about how men nowadays are every bit as manly as our forefather were.

But as I was typing on my beautiful pink hello kitty keyboard I broke a nail and said screw it!

You got the Hello Kitty keyboard? I am sooo jealous! I looked everywhere for it and it was always backordered! I had to settle for a My Little Pony keyboard and it's yellow. I am so sad.

It even has GLITTER!

Ok, Ok... fine! I'll just be over here chewing tobacco while hanging sheetrock and rebuilding this diesel engine!

The fact that young men are much more willing to mooch off of their parents or a girlfriend is a clear indication that they are less manly that previous generations. As life in the US has gotten easier over the past century, men (in general) have become more feminine. Men used to provide for and protect their family. It was what was expected of them. Now, they may provide (unless the gf/wife can make more, then he'll househusband it) and they expect protection from others (police, etc.).

I don't think the incidence of domestic violence has gone down. There are just more women beating the crap out of men.

The fact that young men are much more willing to mooch off of their parents or a girlfriend is a clear indication that they are less manly that previous generations.

I don't see it that way. I see it as more of an economic shift that has hurt young men. Young men now are competing with young women for professional jobs, and there are fewer manufacturing jobs that typically went to young men.

There are so many traits of my grandpa's generation that I wish today's men had: decisiveness, strength of character, commitment, personal responsibility, etc. OTOH, there are so many things from grandpa's generation I'm thankful fewer women have to deal with (women treated more like objects, domestic violence, being dependent on a man).

I think in every generation, that perfect combination of man who is strong and manly but still treats his women the way she feels loved is hard to find.