This makes for interesting reading:

https://www.rutherford.org/files_images/general/8-22-12_Raub_Motion_to_Suspend.pdf

I don't know that he's a terrorist, but he clearly is mentally unstable.

There is probably some truth in what he says, but the Bushes raping and sacrificing children in Colorado? Even if you hate the Bushes, that's a little far-fetched.

Why is he mentally unstable? Because YOU disagree with his statements? So now if someone has a belief or opinion that differs from others you are mentally unstable... I have friends who believe that 9/11 was an inside job and that our government is run by Illuminati, does that make them mentally ill?

Yes.

He may or may not be unstable, but, he made some dumba ss comments and put himself under the scrutiny of the Feds. Maybe he should be, maybe he shouldn't, but maybe sometimes a person should use a little discretion.

If a person wants to pick a fight with the Federal Government and then hide behind their constitutional rights, well, good luck. Seems like a fruitless endeavor.

If this guy were not detained and he went on a shooting spree in, say, a midnight showing of Batman, people would be screaming and yelling that he wasn't in custody over his statements on FB.

Mandy, I know that you know that I like you. You remind me of my own three daughters. I've said the following to all of them at one time or another, and to my youngest many many times.

"I love your passion. I love your Idealism. I would fight anyone that tried to stifle you, but...you are lacking one thing. Experience. When you accummulate a little more mileage, you might find that everything is not so black and white. There are a lot of gray areas."

I appreciate your sentiment, even if we don't agree.. I luv you long time. :laugh:

I really hate the term conspiracy theorist. I never liked them, I never have considered myself one and often thought they were wacky. I hate to say it but fiction films/tv all put into perspective how simple and easily a government can commit horrific acts without consequence and have made me think. Do I think 9/11 was an inside job? I don't know, what I do know is that there are far too many events taking place and wealthy, powerful people missing from the WTC on that day and I think it's stupid to think there is not more to that story. Too many people trust the government, too many people believe what the TV tells them rather than thinking for themselves.

You get a bunch of people here believe that someone is dangerous because that person says something that is against common belief. They are so brainwashed by the media, it strikes a chord with me. It's more than gray areas. It's not rules being bent, it's a problem that can and should be solved. This is nothing new, this country was founded on a Revolution and I'm thankful that there were people who cared enough to stand up against tyranny.

People have been led to believe that a person saying something that is not PC makes them a danger. That's what the media lives for, that's what the government needs people to think. The Governement is nothing unless people depend on it for survival. How is it that James Holmes managed to purchase thousands of dollars worth of gear in a short amount of time as a poor , unemployed college student, the same time that the UN is working on a gun ban, how convenient. The FBI has a history of staging attacks for politic influence, also nothing new. So lets arrest a former Marine, who has done nothing but be a good, hardworking person his whole life for saying that the government is wrong and the people need to do something about it.

You may call those gray areas, some people call them coincidence and will just believe that they are just acts of crazy people but I think there is something seriously wrong with all of it. I think most people write it off as crazy because they are afraid to admit that their government is capable of committing such crimes. To think that the government is safe, responsible and not capable of committing horrific acts of violence on it's own people is ignorant.

Now, onto labeling me as bat-**** crazy....:smokin:

Mandy, I know that you know that I like you. You remind me of my own three daughters. I've said the following to all of them at one time or another, and to my youngest many many times.

"I love your passion. I love your Idealism. I would fight anyone that tried to stifle you, but...you are lacking one thing. Experience. When you accummulate a little more mileage, you might find that everything is not so black and white. There are a lot of gray areas."

I appreciate your sentiment, even if we don't agree.. I luv you long time. :laugh:

I really hate the term conspiracy theorist. I never liked them, I never have considered myself one and often thought they were wacky. I hate to say it but fiction films/tv all put into perspective how simple and easily a government can commit horrific acts without consequence and have made me think. Do I think 9/11 was an inside job? I don't know, what I do know is that there are far too many events taking place and wealthy, powerful people missing from the WTC on that day and I think it's stupid to think there is not more to that story. Too many people trust the government, too many people believe what the TV tells them rather than thinking for themselves.

You get a bunch of people here believe that someone is dangerous because that person says something that is against common belief. They are so brainwashed by the media, it strikes a chord with me. It's more than gray areas. It's not rules being bent, it's a problem that can and should be solved. This is nothing new, this country was founded on a Revolution and I'm thankful that there were people who cared enough to stand up against tyranny.

People have been led to believe that a person saying something that is not PC makes them a danger. That's what the media lives for, that's what the government needs people to think. The Governement is nothing unless people depend on it for survival. How is it that James Holmes managed to purchase thousands of dollars worth of gear in a short amount of time as a poor , unemployed college student, the same time that the UN is working on a gun ban, how convenient. The FBI has a history of staging attacks for politic influence, also nothing new. So lets arrest a former Marine, who has done nothing but be a good, hardworking person his whole life for saying that the government is wrong and the people need to do something about it.

You may call those gray areas, some people call them coincidence and will just believe that they are just acts of crazy people but I think there is something seriously wrong with all of it. I think most people write it off as crazy because they are afraid to admit that their government is capable of committing such crimes. To think that the government is safe, responsible and not capable of committing horrific acts of violence on it's own people is ignorant.

Now, onto labeling me as bat-**** crazy....:smokin:

Okay, you are going to have to source the whole FBI staging terror attacks thing. Are you talking about their terror exercises or are you saying that they perpetrate terror attacks in order to get what they want?

Also, the UN gun bill, which has no jurisdiction over the US and would have to be ratified by Congress, is to slow the illicit trade of small arms in regions that do not have the infrastructure to do it themselves. It has nothing to do with legal guns. Also, it was rejected by the US in July.

Here lies the problem with conspiracy theories. When some one presents the possiblity that our own FBI planned terror attacks against our own citizens, everyone thinks "Oh that is just nut, how can you think that?"

And while I can honestly say that I have never seen proof that I believed that our own government had actually attacked our own citizens, I can definately see where citizens like Mandy are suspicous based on the history of the world and things like Operation Northwoods. It is open to the public to go see the documentation that the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented JFK a plan to stage terror attacks against our own citizens in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. It was one signature away from approval and luckily JFK said hell no.

But once again, through out history, all you have to look at is how wars start. Decades and centuries later it become apparent that it was always about religion, political power, and resources...but how did they convince the public, how did they ratchet up the propoganda. By convincing the citizens that they were under attack. Golf of Tonkin. The Rorshtag fire in Nazi Germany and the bogus claims the polish rebels were attacking german citizens. Japans assertion that China was attacking them. Linking Saddam to 9/11. The list goes on and on. So once again, the older I get, the more I am willing to listen to a conspiracy theorist than my own government. Doesn't mean I will believe them, but maybe if someone had questioned a little more 58,000 american soliders and 1 million Vietnamese would still be alive....or however many from the current middle eastern debacle.

Adrian, Mandy. You guys are not batsh!t crazy. Propoganda is a huge part of making the masses do your bidding. Like I said, people could do whatever they want and say whatever you want to say. But, are you honestly saying that you wouldn't be the least bit concerned, that if a trained solider, was trying to influence a revolution of whatever, that he or she would do it with violence? And let's say, that this former Marine was found competant, let go, and then goes on a shooting spree? What would you think of then? And wasn't our Revolution based on "Taxation without resprestation"? I don't think you need brainwashing for that at all. Just balls to say we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore.

Being a "killing machine" is highly over exaggerated and all you have to do is look at the news to see that plenty of people in this nation with no military training have no problem blowing peoples heads off and are good at it. Gang bangers, teenagers at Columbine, that student at Virginia Tech, the new "Batman" killer. None of these guys had military service and they perpetrate mass murder fine on their own.

Fair point. And yes, you did say if he did insight violence, eff' him then. My only point is that if someone is acting a bit off the rocker, and he does do something, you'll have the people asking "Well why didn't anyone do anything about it. Look at all the crazy *kitten* he's spouting on FB." From my understanding, he's only being evaluated. People say we don't do enough for our vets (which is very true), and they are trying to help, and now he's being oppressed. I guess we'll soon see what the eval says.

Lol. I think that even former soldiers somehow think that it would look like something out of Red Dawn....WOLVERINES!

I loved that movie!!!! I hope the remake doesn't eff it up like they did with Total Recall.

Mandy, I know that you know that I like you. You remind me of my own three daughters. I've said the following to all of them at one time or another, and to my youngest many many times.

"I love your passion. I love your Idealism. I would fight anyone that tried to stifle you, but...you are lacking one thing. Experience. When you accummulate a little more mileage, you might find that everything is not so black and white. There are a lot of gray areas."

I appreciate your sentiment, even if we don't agree.. I luv you long time. :laugh:

I really hate the term conspiracy theorist. I never liked them, I never have considered myself one and often thought they were wacky. I hate to say it but fiction films/tv all put into perspective how simple and easily a government can commit horrific acts without consequence and have made me think. Do I think 9/11 was an inside job? I don't know, what I do know is that there are far too many events taking place and wealthy, powerful people missing from the WTC on that day and I think it's stupid to think there is not more to that story. Too many people trust the government, too many people believe what the TV tells them rather than thinking for themselves.

You get a bunch of people here believe that someone is dangerous because that person says something that is against common belief. They are so brainwashed by the media, it strikes a chord with me. It's more than gray areas. It's not rules being bent, it's a problem that can and should be solved. This is nothing new, this country was founded on a Revolution and I'm thankful that there were people who cared enough to stand up against tyranny.

People have been led to believe that a person saying something that is not PC makes them a danger. That's what the media lives for, that's what the government needs people to think. The Governement is nothing unless people depend on it for survival. How is it that James Holmes managed to purchase thousands of dollars worth of gear in a short amount of time as a poor , unemployed college student, the same time that the UN is working on a gun ban, how convenient. The FBI has a history of staging attacks for politic influence, also nothing new. So lets arrest a former Marine, who has done nothing but be a good, hardworking person his whole life for saying that the government is wrong and the people need to do something about it.

You may call those gray areas, some people call them coincidence and will just believe that they are just acts of crazy people but I think there is something seriously wrong with all of it. I think most people write it off as crazy because they are afraid to admit that their government is capable of committing such crimes. To think that the government is safe, responsible and not capable of committing horrific acts of violence on it's own people is ignorant.

Now, onto labeling me as bat-**** crazy....:smokin:

Okay, you are going to have to source the whole FBI staging terror attacks thing. Are you talking about their terror exercises or are you saying that they perpetrate terror attacks in order to get what they want?

Also, the UN gun bill, which has no jurisdiction over the US and would have to be ratified by Congress, is to slow the illicit trade of small arms in regions that do not have the infrastructure to do it themselves. It has nothing to do with legal guns. Also, it was rejected by the US in July.

Here lies the problem with conspiracy theories. When some one presents the possiblity that our own FBI planned terror attacks against our own citizens, everyone thinks "Oh that is just nut, how can you think that?"

And while I can honestly say that I have never seen proof that I believed that our own government had actually attacked our own citizens, I can definately see where citizens like Mandy are suspicous based on the history of the world and things like Operation Northwoods. It is open to the public to go see the documentation that the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented JFK a plan to stage terror attacks against our own citizens in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. It was one signature away from approval and luckily JFK said hell no.

But once again, through out history, all you have to look at is how wars start. Decades and centuries later it become apparent that it was always about religion, political power, and resources...but how did they convince the public, how did they ratchet up the propoganda. By convincing the citizens that they were under attack. Golf of Tonkin. The Rorshtag fire in Nazi Germany and the bogus claims the polish rebels were attacking german citizens. Japans assertion that China was attacking them. Linking Saddam to 9/11. The list goes on and on. So once again, the older I get, the more I am willing to listen to a conspiracy theorist than my own government. Doesn't mean I will believe them, but maybe if someone had questioned a little more 58,000 american soliders and 1 million Vietnamese would still be alive....or however many from the current middle eastern debacle.

I am fully aware of Operation Northwoods and the true reasons for war. I was just asking for clarification of the FBI's track record of performing terrorist attacks for political means.

Let me be clear, the US has a very ugly history of using covert and "dark" means to achieve their goals or influence situations to go the way that they want them. I just ask for evidence when making these claims.

Cointelpro is pretty transparent now. The Red raids in which U.S. agents posed as hate group radicals. Hoover began collecting intel on US citizens as early as 1945. They surveyed anyone who claimed to be far left or have communist beliefs. They literally had agents joining radical political parties to destroy them from the inside out.

How about when the FBI targeted MLK Jr as 'enemy of the state' and sent him threatening letters, did anything they could to interfere with his public appearances. He eventually ended up dead.

Or here, where the FBI supplies 'suspected terrorists' with supplies for an attack just to arrest the person. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=all

In cases of the Newburgh Four and Ft Dix five, both times FBI sought out people with criminal records or history of mental illness to stage terrorist attacks. They would then charge them after the FBI had given them the necessary means to carry the attacks out, which didn't happen in either of these cases.

It just makes me wonder how many times a "real "attack has happened. I honestly do not think that the Batman shooter acted on his own. Between the edited images of the person who committed the crime and the court photos of a completely different person and the fact that I don't believe the person had the means to do that on his own, I don't believe it. Then again, that is my opinion and not fact..

Also, EvanKeel killed Kenny.