Less carb/More fat

wfte
wfte Posts: 195 Member
I've started this topic so as to try to avoid taking over MrsSki's trainer thread.

Anyone that has read the thread will have seen the discussion brought up about different body types. Here's a quick recap.



Ectomorph: If you're an ectomorph, you're naturally thin with skinny limbs and a high tolerance for carbohydrates. Usually, your metabolic rate is fast. A good starting macronutrient ratio for you would be something like 25% protein, 55% carbs and 20% fat.

Mesomorph: Mesomorphs are naturally muscular and athletic. They have a moderate carbohydrate tolerance and a moderate metabolic rate. Mesomorphs can usually start at a 30% protein, 40% carb, 30% fat macronutrient ratio.

Endomorph: If you're naturally broad and thick, you're probably an endomorph. Endomorphs have a low carbohydrate tolerance and a slow metabolic rate. If you're an endomorph, try a ratio of 35% protein, 25% carbs and 40% fat.



Now I'm guessing many of us, if being greatly overweight, fall into the Endomorph category. I know I'm pretty sure I do.

I'm an inquisitive person and always like to find out the whys of things rather than just taking what I'm told as being right, so I dug a little deeper for explanations for the Endomorph macro ratios.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/time-to-retire-the-low-carb-diet-fad/258343/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/01/opinion/sunday/what-really-makes-us-fat.html

The first link is to a article that I personally would disregard. It's actually the comments posted after that provide the important information. Well worth a read if you have plenty of free time on your hands.

I'll attempt a little brief for those with less time.

People who are Endomorphs, or put weight on easily, often have an insensivity towards insulin. Insulin is the hormone responsible for distributing and STORING glucose and fat.

I'm not sure how to quote but this passage seems very important to me.



"The Krebs cycle (the microbiological citric acid cycle of which you speak) takes place in the mitochondria of the cell. In order for nutrients to access the Krebs cycle, nutrients must enter the cell from the blood stream. For carbohydrates, this entry is facilitated by insulin.

In a healthy person, this poses no problems, but many of us (seemingly those of us who have been exposed to high carbohydrate loads for about 20 years or so) develop a noticeable resistance to insulin that inhibits cellular absorption of carbohydrates. To counteract this, more insulin is secreted.

So how does this make us fat? Another function of insulin is to cause fatty acids and triglycerides to be stored in fat cells, and to keep them there while blood glucose is high. Insulin resistant people on a carb-based diet will constantly have a high blood glucose level, resulting in a high insulin level that causes more fat to be stored than released from fat cells, therefore insulin resistant people get fatter.

But, you may say, fat people are often lazy and are always eating... how can we blame carbs when they obviously overeat? You have to think of overeating and/or laziness as being a symptom and not a cause - hunger is not induced by an empty stomach, but by a lack of nutrients available to your cells, and laziness is a clear indication of cells lacking energy. The cells of an insulin resistant person have limited access to fatty acids and triglycerides as energy, thanks to high levels of insulin, and have limited access to glucose thanks to their resistance to the effects of insulin. These cells lack nutrients, so the Krebs cycle in their mitochondria produces insufficient energy for the cells, causing the person to feel both lazy and hungry."

So in a nut-shell, carbs cause release of insulin. Insulin gets rejected by cells. Blood sugar stays high, which causes more insulin release. Insulin stores fat as a result. Also the lack of glucose in the cells causes tiredness due to lack of nutrition for cells.

Lower carbs means less insulin. Therefore allowing the body to release and burn fat.


In the last few weeks I've been feeling really tired at times, which I found strange considering the amount of calories I've been eating. I now believe this is very likely to be due to the fact my natural reaction to increasing my calories was to increase portion sizes of rice/potato/bread. All carbs! These increased carb levels were causing the insulin production levels to go crazy with no fat being burned off but still no energy getting to cells, hence the tiredness.

The high fat levels suggested are as if you have lowered the carbs your body will have no problems using them up, will keep you energised (replacing the carbs) and break down slower than glucose keeping you full for longer.



Now I'm not suggesting everybody should ditch all carbs and eat nothing but fat but it certainly looks like a reasonable plan for anyone that may have an insulin resistance.

I know that I'm going to start tweaking my macros and see what happens. I'm going to keep my calories at the same level to keep in the sensible EM2WL mindset, lower my carb levels , keep a good level of protein and make the rest with fats.

Even reading all the science it's still blowing my mind. I was losing weight eating a "low" calorie diet and watching fat intake. In the space of a month I've gone from that to almost doubling my calorie intake and now planning on eating as much fat as I like.
Everything inside of me is screaming that's wrong, it flies against EVERYTHING we have been taught, but I can't argue with what I've read.

I'll try to keep updates if anyone is interested on any progress, with energy levels, hunger, weight loss etc.
I plan on staying on reset for 2 more weeks and then hitting cut.

Replies

  • woodsygirl
    woodsygirl Posts: 354 Member
    I would be interested in your progress.

    For me, eating 40% carbs is a lot (which i'm currently doing). I feel much less bloated and have less cravings with more protein and fat and less carbs.

    I'm always tweaking things, I think i'll change my ratios just to see how I feel in a week.
  • harlanJEN
    harlanJEN Posts: 1,089 Member
    25/30/45 carb protein fat is how I've currently set my macros set. I do t always hit it, but my aim is to keep my carbs to complex and under 150g, more protein than carb if possible w/ at least 120g then my fat falls where it may ..healthy fats.

    I didn't set my macros because of the body type theory , but from many many books, articles and studies that I've read and from knowing how my body feels and responds. This isn't very diff from what I have been doing . But I am more focused on crowding grain carbs out, upping my veg and keeping my carbs under 150g while I'm in fat loss mode. I've made great strides over the past year in reducing my grain carbs , which used to make up the biggest part of my diet, and it has made a huge diff switching o more protein vs. more carb.

    I highly recommend this book: Smarter Science of Slim by Jonathan Bailor

    Jen
  • MrsSki38
    MrsSki38 Posts: 68 Member
    Thank you so much for posting this!!! Reading through this made it so much more clear for me. And you could have hijacked my thread. I think this is great information.

    I'll be following along with you to see your progress and learn.

    Best-

    K
  • Noor13
    Noor13 Posts: 964 Member
    I am doing it like Jen. My body type is kinda in between Meso and Endomorph I would say. I upped just a few days ago my fats. Not easy for me,but will see, what it brings.
    My protein is at around 180 gram, so higher as 1 gram per lbs bodyweight.
  • twinmomtwice4
    twinmomtwice4 Posts: 1,069 Member
    Wow, this was fascinating to me. I would probably fall under the endomorph category and then on top of that, I also have a thyroid condition and I'm menopausal so I already have those strikes against me which makes it a little more difficult for me to lose weight, fat especially.

    I'm going to tweak my macros a little bit and see what happens!

    Thanks for sharing this!
  • twinmomtwice4
    twinmomtwice4 Posts: 1,069 Member
    I adjusted my macros to 25/35/40 (carbs, protein, fat) and noticed in my diary that I'm way over on carbs. Yet there's no bread or pasta in my diary....only healthy carbs from veggies, peanut butter, oats.

    So what is considered a healthy carb and what's considered an unhealthy carb??

    Just when I thought I knew all there was to know, I realize I don't actually know a thing!!!!
  • wfte
    wfte Posts: 195 Member
    I'd imagine most of that is oats. You'd need to eat a lot of veg to go busting out on them.
    As far as insulin is concerned a carb is a carb. It all needs insulin to break it down.
    Only exception is that the carb total also counts fibre. Fibre is indigestible by the body and therefore doesn't raise blood glucose.
    I've seen lots of people that count "net" carbs, this being carb intake after deducting for fibre.
  • I actually reduced my (non fiber) carbs based on being stalled for a couple of months. I have friends who are cross-fit/paleo fans and they suggested my stall was insulin sensitivity related.

    I'm interested to read that body type theory and really any science around it :) I know I carry weight around my belly which I have read is also an indication of insulin resistance. So I'm giving reduced carbs a try. I'm glad to read different peoples ratios. Its very helpful.
  • cca1229
    cca1229 Posts: 23 Member
    Thanks for sharing the information. Over the last few days I've been curious about this. I'm going to adjust macros as well to see if this does kick something in. I keep trying different things with no progress and know I fall into the Endomorph type and carry fat in my belly and also in the past a huge carb junkie. So maybe this is an issue from all those years of carb binging. Worth a try!
  • volume77
    volume77 Posts: 670 Member
    YES!
  • Very interesting read. It has given me lots to consider and research more. Thanks for sharing. Good luck in your progress!
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    Depends on many factors most likely the current persons level of leanness and activity level.

    A pretty lean individual who works out 4-5 times a week can handle a ton of carbs, a sedentary individual with a higher BF% won't react so favourably.

    There is no doubt more people (who come to a site focused on weight loss) fall into the second category than the first however The paleo/crossfit crowd like to push low carb dieting as a blanket response and answer to all problems when it really isn't.
  • wfte
    wfte Posts: 195 Member
    Depends on many factors most likely the current persons level of leanness and activity level.

    A pretty lean individual who works out 4-5 times a week can handle a ton of carbs, a sedentary individual with a higher BF% won't react so favourably.

    There is no doubt more people (who come to a site focused on weight loss) fall into the second category than the first however The paleo/crossfit crowd like to push low carb dieting as a blanket response and answer to all problems when it really isn't.

    Very true and agreed. This is why I added that in the original post that I'm not claiming it to be a solution for everyone. Very much aimed at people who believe they fit the endomorph model or have been subject to very high carb diets for many years.

    I know I was brought up with a days food being toast/cereal for breakfast, meat veg and potato for dinner, sandwich/crackers and crisps for lunch and a snack most likely being a sandwich or something too.
  • ktbazzy
    ktbazzy Posts: 110 Member
    I have found this topic and MrsSki's post to be most helpful! It explains a lot about my weight gain and weight loss roller coaster.
  • I have found this topic and MrsSki's post to be most helpful! It explains a lot about my weight gain and weight loss roller coaster.

    Agreed, this is totally new information to me even though I started lowering my carbs almost 2 weeks ago... Coincidence? I think not :)

    I am constantly amazed by all I learn here from you fantastic people :) Many thanks!
  • rmk20togo
    rmk20togo Posts: 353 Member
    I adjusted my macros to 25/35/40 (carbs, protein, fat) and noticed in my diary that I'm way over on carbs. Yet there's no bread or pasta in my diary....only healthy carbs from veggies, peanut butter, oats.

    So what is considered a healthy carb and what's considered an unhealthy carb??

    Just when I thought I knew all there was to know, I realize I don't actually know a thing!!!!

    ^^This is totally me! All of today's food is logged and I just switched my macros and I'm blowing the top off of carbs, though I confess I did have a bagel for breakfast which is very unusual. I have a long run tonight and am going a little carb heavy to prepare.

    My problem is how in the world do I get to 40% fat and keep it healthy. Avocados I know, but what else can I add (other than butter :love: ) to bump up the fat?

  • My problem is how in the world do I get to 40% fat and keep it healthy. Avocados I know, but what else can I add (other than butter :love: ) to bump up the fat?

    Olives, olive oil, grape seed oil, canola oil, flax seed oil, pistachios, almonds, hazlenuts, sesame, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds and any of those made into butter, pesto on spaghetti squash, sardines, anchovies, char, black cod, and halibut
  • twinmomtwice4
    twinmomtwice4 Posts: 1,069 Member
    I adjusted my macros to 25/35/40 (carbs, protein, fat) and noticed in my diary that I'm way over on carbs. Yet there's no bread or pasta in my diary....only healthy carbs from veggies, peanut butter, oats.

    So what is considered a healthy carb and what's considered an unhealthy carb??

    Just when I thought I knew all there was to know, I realize I don't actually know a thing!!!!

    ^^This is totally me! All of today's food is logged and I just switched my macros and I'm blowing the top off of carbs, though I confess I did have a bagel for breakfast which is very unusual. I have a long run tonight and am going a little carb heavy to prepare.

    My problem is how in the world do I get to 40% fat and keep it healthy. Avocados I know, but what else can I add (other than butter :love: ) to bump up the fat?

    I think I finally have it worked out. Feel free to take a peek at my diary if you want some ideas.

    For fat, I'm focusing more on nut butters, nuts, ground flaxseed, olive oil, grapeseed oil, coconut oil, salmon, etc.
  • wfte
    wfte Posts: 195 Member
    For fat:

    Cheese, bacon, butter, mayo , all full fat versions.

    Find me a reputable study in the last 10 years or so that can solidly link fat to heart disease, raised cholesterol etc. Even saturated fat! I've read people who drastically increased their fat intake and dropped their cholesterol by over half!