Domestic violence and when to intervene.
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The only way a woman can get out of a situation like that is when she herself makes the decision. If someone else comes along to intervene she will make excuses and cover for her man. Heck, this may even be the woman who, when described that situation says that she would get out... because she thinks her situation is different because her man isn't like that.
Without going into too much detail: Been there, done that, got the restraining order on the way out.
No good could come from saying anything in that situation (except I like what Flam suggested, just drawing attention to the fact that they're making a scene). Grabbing an arm and yelling at each other is disturbing the peace, not domestic violence.0 -
I grew up in a home where violence was the norm. In those days, no one intervened and I wish they had. I stood for my last day of third grade because it hurt to sit down, so the teacher let me stand. No one ever reported anything. I think that makes me a little oversensitive to this type of discussion.
This makes my stomach hurt; I'm so sorry. Even though a lot of people believe that individual states' mandated reporter laws are over-reaching, I don't think they do enough. I've had to make a lot of these calls over the years, and thankfully, instead of acclimatizing to horror- I've learned to become more sensitive to quiet signals. I'm enraged for you. Ugh.0 -
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Now, I'm from the school of thought that a women should never raise her voice to a man under any circumstance.
Are you serious? As DM said, this isn't 1955.
Now, I'm not a drama queen and I'd rather walk away from someone yelling at me instead of me yelling back, but you can sure as hell bet that someone is not going to tell me that I can't raise my voice.
Wow, you certainly are a feisty one. :laugh:
Now, I will say that I'm a firm believer in mutual respect in a relationship. A women should never raise her voice to a man and a man shouldn't yell at a women. Physical abuse is wrong as well.
You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.
While I agree with what you said, it was how you said it. It sounded like "never raise your voice to me, and make sure you have my martini and slippers waiting for me when I get home at the end of the day." I totally agree with the mutual respect aspect, and I'd never yell at or be with someone who yelled at me.0 -
Oh, and Mike, remind me not to YELL AT YOU :happy:
You're the exception, you can yell at me whenever I get out of line, you get a free pass
I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that abuse, no one should have to live through that. I'm shocked that no one ever stepped in and did something, absolutely horrible. If you ever find yourself in a bad relationship and need someone to teach you how to shoot a gun. Give me a call!0 -
I'd mind my own business, let them work it out on their own. If he's abusive and she stays with him then it's her choice. If she wants help she can ask. But if it's a friend or a family member then it's different.0
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Talk about timing! I open the local news paper and I found this article. Pretty damn relevant!
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/suburban-boynton-beach-accused-of-threatening-wife/nSDCW/
Note to self: DON'T GET INVOLVED!0 -
If you ever find yourself in a bad relationship and need someone to teach you how to shoot a gun. Give me a call!
Would that be the AR-15 or the AK-47? Hmmm... I may need that!
Man, that article really was timely! Good reason to stay out without support.
As for me, I turned out OK
In the 80s, schools stayed out of family matters... now they seem to be expected to go the other extreme and report everything. It's still a bit of a shock to me what gets reported now, when I walked around with black eyes all the time and no one ever spoke up. But I'd rather see schools be cautious than let it get out of control like it was in my family. Thankfully I've spent a lot of years separated from my family to let go of all that, grow into who I wanted to be, and now feel the need to be close (but not too close) to them. No need to get sucked into drama, so the 5.5 hour drive is just about right :ohwell:
I was lucky though... my grandparents fought hard to keep me with them as much as possible so I didn't get it AS BAD as it could have been. It was all they could do from an hour away, but it also made me into a different person than most of my family. I consider myself quite lucky truthfully because I could still be living the life my family does... or potentially like the woman you posted about!0 -
That was not a situation to intervene.
Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.
Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.
This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.
The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.
I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.
You paint a vivid picture. I don’t think anyone can much about this without more detail such as what words were said, what reasons she perceived, etc. But I’m guessing that ended that relationship and you seem to have no regrets.
My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.
I agree with Moe. I still have a hard time believing that I was one of "those" women... yet, I've had many counselors and friends tell me I was... you'd think the black eyes and swollen face and bruises all over my body would have given me a clue...0 -
This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.
Not sure you can compare an 'academic' discussion of domestic violence with the reality of it. Life is not that black and white for most people.
I must agree. We also learn about contraception but that has not stopped the increase in teen pregnancies, or the decline in the age of said teens.
Let me tell you, most of the time you have no idea you are being abused. That goes for both men and women. I have seen it start so small and build for years before it becomes full on slap/punch/kick situation.
Alcohol adds an entire new flavor to the deal. Now neigther of them are coherent enough to be reasonable.
As for your situation? I would have walked away (even if I had a burly body guard with me) That sounded like drunk talk.
What worried me more is the fact they may have been driving beside me down Uni Drive!!:huh:0 -
That was not a situation to intervene.
Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.
Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.
This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.
The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.
I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.You can get feisty with whomever you want to, but it might not end up in your favor. In my 30 years, I've had one bad relationship altercation. She got wordy with me (for no reason) and she ended up locked outside my house with some of her belongings scattered on the lawn in the middle of the night. Best decision I ever made. I couldn't imagine being with someone who feels the need to yell.
You paint a vivid picture. I don’t think anyone can much about this without more detail such as what words were said, what reasons she perceived, etc. But I’m guessing that ended that relationship and you seem to have no regrets.
My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.
I agree with Moe. I still have a hard time believing that I was one of "those" women... yet, I've had many counselors and friends tell me I was... you'd think the black eyes and swollen face and bruises all over my body would have given me a clue...
No no..........he didn't mean it.
He will never do it again. He loves me more than anyone in my life. Who else will love me I am "insert derogatory statement about oneself"
Look he bought me roses............mowed the lawn..........fixed my car.....
I was bad..........I shouldnt have burned the dinner..........
I have helped several women to escape these sorts of situations. Booze and drugs led to some, but mostly low self-esteem paved the way. Again, for both the man and the woman.0 -
OK, so... I get that. Women (or men for that matter) don't know WHEN to seek help.That was not a situation to intervene.
Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.
Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.
This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.
The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.
I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.
My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.
I agree with Moe. I still have a hard time believing that I was one of "those" women... yet, I've had many counselors and friends tell me I was... you'd think the black eyes and swollen face and bruises all over my body would have given me a clue...
No no..........he didn't mean it.
He will never do it again. He loves me more than anyone in my life. Who else will love me I am "insert derogatory statement about oneself"
Look he bought me roses............mowed the lawn..........fixed my car.....
I was bad..........I shouldnt have burned the dinner..........
I have helped several women to escape these sorts of situations. Booze and drugs led to some, but mostly low self-esteem paved the way. Again, for both the man and the woman.
So what?
For those who have people who care, they don't listen to people who tell them they need help NOW.
Friends, family, counselor : "You need help now!"
When? >> Now <<.
So what are we (normal humans) supposed to do about it?
I think DM is right in that there is now a lot of awareness of the situation. Women/men know WHEN (if they listen to people's opinion) and WHERE to seek help if they chose to do so.
But most of the time, isn't the problem in reality that they blindly ignore the signs?
In that case, isn't the only solution for the rest of us just to keep telling them they need help (which they will ignore again and again) until one day they are found lying down with a broken neck?
That's a real question, I'm clueless about it.0 -
OK, so... I get that. Women (or men for that matter) don't know WHEN to seek help.That was not a situation to intervene.
Domestic violence is a situation in which there's a lot of awareness. There are many battered women's shelters and other resources. This isn't 1955. I believe that women know when to seek help.
Yeah. Sorry. Have to disagree with this. Women don't always know when to seek help. When you are living in an abusive relationship, the signs are not that clear. Obviously, if daily beatings were a part of the cycle, it might be clear. But there are many degrees of abuse. Add economic issues (who controls the money), kids, etc, and you'd be surprised what women will "overlook." Your assumption is dangerous.
This depends on your perspective. I seem to recall the topic of domestic violence being addressed in high school and college classes. And I haven’t sat in a high school or college class all too recently.
The economic issues are real. And the economic issues are affecting bad relationships, even where there is no domestic violence.
I’ve read divorces are down, primarily because you can’t sell a house in this market. And the house is usually the biggest asset in the financial portfolio. There are a lot of couples unwillingly together right now thanks to the terrible economy.
My perspective is from having lived in an abusive marriage for 20 years. I read all the articles. Watched all the Oprah shows. I knew my ex had anger issues. But it wasn't until I had to call the Sheriff to intervene, got him out of the house (after he trashed it) and got into counseling and actually admitted out loud how I had been treated...THEN I understood that I was one of "those" women. It is NOT black and white when you're living in it.
I agree with Moe. I still have a hard time believing that I was one of "those" women... yet, I've had many counselors and friends tell me I was... you'd think the black eyes and swollen face and bruises all over my body would have given me a clue...
No no..........he didn't mean it.
He will never do it again. He loves me more than anyone in my life. Who else will love me I am "insert derogatory statement about oneself"
Look he bought me roses............mowed the lawn..........fixed my car.....
I was bad..........I shouldnt have burned the dinner..........
I have helped several women to escape these sorts of situations. Booze and drugs led to some, but mostly low self-esteem paved the way. Again, for both the man and the woman.
So what?
For those who have people who care, they don't listen to people who tell them they need help NOW.
Friends, family, counselor : "You need help now!"
When? >> Now <<.
So what are we (normal humans) supposed to do about it?
I think DM is right in that there is now a lot of awareness of the situation. Women/men know WHEN (if they listen to people's opinion) and WHERE to seek help if they chose to do so.
But most of the time, isn't the problem in reality that they blindly ignore the signs?
In that case, isn't the only solution for the rest of us just to keep telling them they need help (which they will ignore again and again) until one day they are found lying down with a broken neck?
That's a real question, I'm clueless about it.
Well, going back to the OP...there is really no way to help virtual strangers. If that guy is willing to act like that in public, there's not telling what he would do to her in privacy.
I think the point of awareness is that it is easy to be aware and have read the articles, but it is not always clear cut when you are living in an abusive relationship. Especially when the bulk of the abuse is verbal and emotional. And no one helped me because no one knew. I told no one what was going on.
And I'm sure you don't mean to blame the victim, but that is what you are doing when you say the problem is they are ignoring the signs. Really? That is what the abuser tells the abused...it's your fault. If you weren't so flawed, I wouldn't have to get mad. If you weren't so co-dependent you wouldn't be abused.
I think in my case, there was a level of shame and the need to keep the secret. How does one combat that? Keep talking about it. I don't keep any secrets anymore (about that kind of stuff).
So if you are a friend of someone in this situation and you know about it. You get her the book, "Ditch that Jerk," you get her the charts from counseling centers that talk about the signs, you offer to be there for her after the police cart her *kitten* partner away, you offer to go to court, you offer to tell the court what you have witnessed. And then wait until she is ready. But never never blame the victim.0 -
OK, so... I get that. Women (or men for that matter) don't know WHEN to seek help.
So what?
For those who have people who care, they don't listen to people who tell them they need help NOW.
Friends, family, counselor : "You need help now!"
When? >> Now <<.
So what are we (normal humans) supposed to do about it?
I think DM is right in that there is now a lot of awareness of the situation. Women/men know WHEN (if they listen to people's opinion) and WHERE to seek help if they chose to do so.
But most of the time, isn't the problem in reality that they blindly ignore the signs?
In that case, isn't the only solution for the rest of us just to keep telling them they need help (which they will ignore again and again) until one day they are found lying down with a broken neck?
That's a real question, I'm clueless about it.
I think sometimes what a stranger says can have more impact than the same thing said by family and friends, who can be perceived as having a bias ("You never liked him, anyway"), or nagging/being judgemental of the victim. How many of us on MFP ended up here because family/friends said something about our weight, and how many because a stranger or distant acquaintance did?
This, as you may have guessed, is something of a sore topic for me, coming from a family where physical abuse was minimal, but emotional and psychological abuse was a day-to-day part of our lives. I told my mother to divorce my father regularly from the time I was 12. It took another 11 years, and someone completely removed from the family/friend-group to say to her "You need to get out", before she did. My mother is highly educated, competent, earned more than enough of her own money, yet was so emotionally controlled, and psychologically worn-down by the abuse that she felt unable to walk away. Had she done so sooner, she'd be in a much better position today. There are never any simple answers on this one, and every situation is subtly different - a fact that is complicated by the continuing 'dirty little secret/hush-hush' approach of large parts of society. My feeling on the OP - if you can intervene without putting yourself and the victim at risk, do so. If you can't, try to find someone who can.0 -
Well, going back to the OP...there is really no way to help virtual strangers. If that guy is willing to act like that in public, there's not telling what he would do to her in privacy.
I think the point of awareness is that it is easy to be aware and have read the articles, but it is not always clear cut when you are living in an abusive relationship. Especially when the bulk of the abuse is verbal and emotional. And no one helped me because no one knew. I told no one what was going on.
And I'm sure you don't mean to blame the victim, but that is what you are doing when you say the problem is they are ignoring the signs. Really? That is what the abuser tells the abused...it's your fault. If you weren't so flawed, I wouldn't have to get mad. If you weren't so co-dependent you wouldn't be abused.
I think in my case, there was a level of shame and the need to keep the secret. How does one combat that? Keep talking about it. I don't keep any secrets anymore (about that kind of stuff).
So if you are a friend of someone in this situation and you know about it. You get her the book, "Ditch that Jerk," you get her the charts from counseling centers that talk about the signs, you offer to be there for her after the police cart her *kitten* partner away, you offer to go to court, you offer to tell the court what you have witnessed. And then wait until she is ready. But never never blame the victim.
Well said :flowerforyou:0 -
I ever did get an answer to whether the girl was super hot.
As in a subconscious, "she's too amazing to be with a jerk like that, I'll get her out of this and show her how a *real* man treats a woman."0 -
Ok a couple of thing...
Mike you live in south Florida how can you not be used to people yelling at each other lol. I'm hispanic we have volume control issues. I'm loud lol and I always tell people I'm loud.
A similar situation to what you described happened at my favorite bar the other day. My friends who is the manager very politely asked them to calm down. The man then started cursing out the manager. Then the lady turned on the manager. SO the manager asked them to leave. It ended with the guy punching the manager and spliting his eyelid and the drunk being wrestled to the floor by our biker friends and generally getting his tushies kicked. Then I had to provide first aid. The minute the cops showed up the girl tried to back up her boyfriend. She actually ended up going to jail to because she tried to swing on the manager infront of the cops..
STAY OUT OF IT .... plus if they are just yelling at each you dont know what the fight is about. Personally I dont like public scenes but I have seen some super yelling matches that were over stupis stuff because the couple was drunk0 -
Well, going back to the OP...there is really no way to help virtual strangers. If that guy is willing to act like that in public, there's not telling what he would do to her in privacy.
I think the point of awareness is that it is easy to be aware and have read the articles, but it is not always clear cut when you are living in an abusive relationship. Especially when the bulk of the abuse is verbal and emotional. And no one helped me because no one knew. I told no one what was going on.
And I'm sure you don't mean to blame the victim, but that is what you are doing when you say the problem is they are ignoring the signs. Really? That is what the abuser tells the abused...it's your fault. If you weren't so flawed, I wouldn't have to get mad. If you weren't so co-dependent you wouldn't be abused.
I think in my case, there was a level of shame and the need to keep the secret. How does one combat that? Keep talking about it. I don't keep any secrets anymore (about that kind of stuff).
So if you are a friend of someone in this situation and you know about it. You get her the book, "Ditch that Jerk," you get her the charts from counseling centers that talk about the signs, you offer to be there for her after the police cart her *kitten* partner away, you offer to go to court, you offer to tell the court what you have witnessed. And then wait until she is ready. But never never blame the victim.
Well said :flowerforyou:
I agree. If you haven't been there, it's hard to understand how fall the victim has fallen so low and doesn't see that s/he needs help. What you do is stand by them, support (but NOT enable more abuse) them, and continue to suggest resources until the message gets through their head.
I'm telling you, I was shocked when not just 1, but 3!! counselors all said the same thing: How did you put UP with that??? Don't you know that's abusive?? Don't you know you deserve better?? Well, yeah, now I do... now that I’ve been out of the situation for a bit and see YOUR reaction to what happened. But at the time? No, I thought most things were normal or my own fault.0 -
I ever did get an answer to whether the girl was super hot.
As in a subconscious, "she's too amazing to be with a jerk like that, I'll get her out of this and show her how a *real* man treats a woman."
ROTFLMFAO
Janie, I love you, that's friggin' genius.0 -
I ever did get an answer to whether the girl was super hot.
As in a subconscious, "she's too amazing to be with a jerk like that, I'll get her out of this and show her how a *real* man treats a woman."
Janie, I love you, that's friggin' genius.
I know, I know, I'm pessimistic. Really just hopeless. haha.
BUT there *IS* a ring of truth to it. I travel a lot. And one thing I've started doing is watch people. Beautiful women get PLENTY of help with their bags, getting stuff off a high shelf, even guys giving them their spot in line at the terminal Starbucks. But guys rarely help the less attractive "un-put-together" women, unless those "ugly" women are also elderly. It makes me feel sad to watch a so-so looking woman up the aisle struggle with her bags and no one move. But a beautiful woman doesn't even have to struggle before the men near her are jumping up to offer help.
Just sayin'0 -
This is no doubt true but when one thinks about it is it that big a deal?I ever did get an answer to whether the girl was super hot.
As in a subconscious, "she's too amazing to be with a jerk like that, I'll get her out of this and show her how a *real* man treats a woman."
Janie, I love you, that's friggin' genius.
I know, I know, I'm pessimistic. Really just hopeless. haha.
BUT there *IS* a ring of truth to it. I travel a lot. And one thing I've started doing is watch people. Beautiful women get PLENTY of help with their bags, getting stuff off a high shelf, even guys giving them their spot in line at the terminal Starbucks. But guys rarely help the less attractive "un-put-together" women, unless those "ugly" women are also elderly. It makes me feel sad to watch a so-so looking woman up the aisle struggle with her bags and no one move. But a beautiful woman doesn't even have to struggle before the men near her are jumping up to offer help.
Just sayin'
Society and women certainly reward a very nice looking man over an average or plain looking one.
Has not almost every lady here not been yearning for or swooning lover acts of chivalry?
Why would a guy not wish to feel like a hero to an attractive lady?
It is part of what makes us men.
I have to also add that while a generalization it has been my personal experience in life that every attractive lady has no hesitation or guilt in taking full advantage of this when needed.0
