Painful Conversation
Replies
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The turning point in the conversation was Master's in Nuclear Engineering. BTW, I was unaware that you had a Master's in Nuclear Engineering.
The next few thoughts that I am going to write are going to spark some discussion, but I seem to do that in here with some degree of regularity.
Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
When a guy has an in demand Master's Degree and good job prospects and/or history, his dating pool widens. Men with Master's have no problems with a woman with just a Bachelor's or even those who did not complete college.
A man's career, education and earning capacity matter to a woman. A woman's education, career and earning capacity matter less to men. A guy who is more likely to appreciate a money making woman isn't a guy that the big money making woman wants because this is typically a guy with diminished earning power.
That's a big part of why your conversation went off track.
holy crap this is right on point. ugh. very disappointing but yes i find that smart successfull women have a very small dating pool and if we wanna date our equals or better its almost impossible.0 -
I agree with JJ, its not so much what they do but how they make u feel. its very attractive for a man to be able to both respect you as an accomplished and intelligent woman but still treat you like a girl if that makes sense.Yeah, if he has to compare himself to you and your accomplishments and doesn't feel like he measures, he's not the guy for you. I have to say that I really think he doesn't see himself as measuring up.
See, that’s the problem. I know this about guys and I’m NOT worried about finding a man who measures up to my accomplishments, so I try to avoid having this kind of convo early on. I’m looking for a man that makes me feel like a woman, that protects me and takes care of me, and that’s fun to be around. These things like that which are NOT dependent on degrees or rank or accomplishments. So I really hate it when guys get into “interview mode” and start off with these kinds of things because either I answer them and he gets intimidated, or I evade the question and then he thinks I have something to hide. Either way, we never have a fair shot at getting to know each other first.0 -
Am I the only guy here who is slightly turned off by a women who's an academic and career all-star?
No... you're just the only one strong enough to admit it in public
FWIW, my “something to prove” days are over. I’ve realized something that many of my female peers haven’t yet figured out: I don’t need to BE a man… and I don’t need to wait for the mythical man who sees us as 100% equals in all areas. Rather, I need a partner… a man who complements me. "Everything a man can do, I can do better" is rubbish. I’m the strong one 70-100% in some areas, and he’s the strong one 70-100% in some areas. Together we are an undefeatable, happy, passionate team.
I understand where Mike is coming from and agree with Janie on this. Thankfully those days are behind me (though I JUST have my undergrad in engineering
) of feeling the need to prove I can be better than men. I actually enjoy getting to be feminine AND smart now, haha!
Is it just me or are there an awful lot of engineers on here? Pattern? Anyone care to analyze the probability? :laugh:
lol girl power0 -
I understand where Mike is coming from and agree with Janie on this. Thankfully those days are behind me (though I JUST have my undergrad in engineering ) of feeling the need to prove I can be better than men. I actually enjoy getting to be feminine AND smart now, haha!
Is it just me or are there an awful lot of engineers on here? Pattern? Anyone care to analyze the probability? :laugh:
I think there are a handful of us on here. Are you EE?
I'm always curious to talk to other engineers and see what they do for a living.
I'm a CE. I have worked on the design of roads, bridges and levees.
Mike I didnt know you were an engineer?0 -
EE
--P0 -
This is for discussion,is a generalization to a degree and probably colored by some gender bias so with that disclaimer here I go.
It seems that women are emotionally swayed in some way by the wealthy and/or seemingly powerful man that carries himself with an air of invincibility or arrogance that their crap doesn`t stink.
The popularity of the 50 shades book lends to that.
Men on the other hand are turned off by that attitude and behavior from BOTH other men and women yet ladies don`t sense this in us.
As a result they think it means that all we want is demur and subservient people rather then understand that we as guys like very much someone who is engaging and independent.
Since they tend to like the domineering guy some try to duplicate it without understanding the average guy does not like that from anyone so they end up feeling that things are unfair and guys are intimidated.
The truth is we simply look at it as a negative regardless who it is coming from.
Make any sense despite the short area one has to post things?
Or flame away...it is all good.:drinker:0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
So you are saying boobs and *kitten* are more prized then brains?
In a word (feel free to back me up guys).. YES.
Back up has arrived... Yes, and not that brains aren't a turn on. But I think woman hold their degrees to a higher level than any guy I know. In fact a lot are down right cocky about them, and that is a plain and simple turn off!! I'm sure their are men in here with advanced degrees, but I couldn't tell you who they are because they aren't squawking about them like they deserve a Nobel prize for having it. It's one part of life, and if it comes down to a giant pair of fun bags or someone that is ridding their high horse about one accomplishment in life... I'm going boobs every time.0 -
Simply put, women care more about a man's career than a man cares about a woman's career or accomplishments. To men, good looks, a carefree attitude that makes interactions easy and fun, reliability and trustworthiness are what matters.0
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Simply put, women care more about a man's career than a man cares about a woman's career or accomplishments. To men, good looks, a carefree attitude that makes interactions easy and fun, reliability and trustworthiness are what matters.
Men don`t grasp that the feeling of security is as strong and dominant in most (?) ladies as the desire for physical intimacy is for us.
I have said before that neither should be considered more sacred or deserving to be met before the other but do know that opinion will not be accepted as valid for the most part.0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor.
The odds are not in her favor that she's intelligent, interesting, etc, or the odds are not in her favor that someone would be interested in a trying to get past the stereotype and date a waitress?
And I'm talking a waitress at a nice place, not Denny's or Hooters.
Her attitude matters. Is she pleasant to be around? Are the interactions easy and fun? Is she reliable? Does she keep her word? All relevant considerations.0 -
The guy mentioned in the OP has been texting me off and on about "I'd like to talk with you again." I've humored him, but not expected much to come of it.
Well, tonight he actually did call (about 2 weeks later). He seems like a nice, confident, guy (just socially awkward in some areas). I did stop him at one point (after he'd mentioned my rank 4 times) and said, "wow you are really fixated on my rank, aren't you???" I enjoyed listening to his stories, but my attempt at being funny backfired when he said, "I'm probably boring you, aren't I?" I immediately said, "not at all, this is great!" Then I thought about it a second and added, "you know, if you really were boring me, it's not like I would tell you." So minus 1 for JJ with that.
He lost major points when he said, "Well, I'm looking for the woman who is intelligent and will be attractive to ME even if she isn't attractive to most people." Call didn't last long after that. I know I'm not a perfect 10, but come on!0 -
He lost major points when he said, "Well, I'm looking for the woman who is intelligent and will be attractive to ME even if she isn't attractive to most people." Call didn't last long after that. I know I'm not a perfect 10, but come on!
I don't see what's wrong with that statement? It sounds like a compliment - that he thinks you're exotic and beautiful even if society only like white toothpicks.0 -
He lost major points when he said, "Well, I'm looking for the woman who is intelligent and will be attractive to ME even if she isn't attractive to most people." Call didn't last long after that. I know I'm not a perfect 10, but come on!
I don't see what's wrong with that statement? It sounds like a compliment - that he thinks you're exotic and beautiful even if society only like white toothpicks.
He said the same thing several ways. I did not feel complimented. I felt like he was telling me I was unattractive but that's ok because *he* finds me cute.0 -
yep painfull all that church talk..lmao0
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He lost major points when he said, "Well, I'm looking for the woman who is intelligent and will be attractive to ME even if she isn't attractive to most people." Call didn't last long after that. I know I'm not a perfect 10, but come on!
I don't see what's wrong with that statement? It sounds like a compliment - that he thinks you're exotic and beautiful even if society only like white toothpicks.
He said the same thing several ways. I did not feel complimented. I felt like he was telling me I was unattractive but that's ok because *he* finds me cute.
Yeah that's exactly how I interpreted that.0 -
The turning point in the conversation was Master's in Nuclear Engineering. BTW, I was unaware that you had a Master's in Nuclear Engineering.
The next few thoughts that I am going to write are going to spark some discussion, but I seem to do that in here with some degree of regularity.
Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
When a guy has an in demand Master's Degree and good job prospects and/or history, his dating pool widens. Men with Master's have no problems with a woman with just a Bachelor's or even those who did not complete college.
A man's career, education and earning capacity matter to a woman. A woman's education, career and earning capacity matter less to men. A guy who is more likely to appreciate a money making woman isn't a guy that the big money making woman wants because this is typically a guy with diminished earning power.
That's a big part of why your conversation went off track.
This. I have a Master's degree and it's exactly what you said. I'm not interested in guys who only have a high school diploma and only a little college. I don't mind just a Bachelor's but it's nice to be on equal footing with someone.0
