Eating academy
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wfte
Posts: 195 Member
Ive spent a large amount of time this evening checking out this website
http://eatingacademy.com/
I imagine some people here have already visited it but thought I'd post it up for those that haven't.
A lot of enlightening stuff there.
http://eatingacademy.com/
I imagine some people here have already visited it but thought I'd post it up for those that haven't.
A lot of enlightening stuff there.
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Replies
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Thanks, I hadn't seen that before (somehow!) ...
If the calorie-fixated could get this one concept down then we could collectively make progress:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
Yes, of course, they do matter, but it's deeper than that.
(edit) I notice that Peter Attia seems to assume in the comments that, regarding thermodynamics, the human body is a 'closed system', which I do not believe it to be, this referenced article seems closer to the truth for my mind:
http://sugarfreegoodies.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/calories-in-calories-out-cico-debunked/0 -
Excellent article about CICO. I believe he has hit the nail on the head. It has taken me years to learn how my metabolism work, how much carbs affect me, my level of insulin resistance, etc. Just counting calories made me fatter.Thanks, I hadn't seen that before (somehow!) ...
If the calorie-fixated could get this one concept down then we could collectively make progress:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
Yes, of course, they do matter, but it's deeper than that.
(edit) I notice that Peter Attia seems to assume in the comments that, regarding thermodynamics, the human body is a 'closed system', which I do not believe it to be, this referenced article seems closer to the truth for my mind:
http://sugarfreegoodies.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/calories-in-calories-out-cico-debunked/0 -
Thank you wfte, I have spent the better part of 3 hours reading different postings on his site. I have some questions for you guys, I'm still trying to let what I've read soak in.
If I'm replacing the carbs with fats (which I completely agree with by the way) how do I know that any extra fat I consume won't be stored in the same fashion as the carbs if I don't expend the energy right away and burn it? I understand I'm losing weight because I am creating a caloric deficit. I'm somewhere between 1200 to 1500 a day so I know I'm going to lose because of the deficit I'm causing my TDEE but does fat get stored as fat if it isn't burned?
Is there something I'm missing in the reading material that discusses this point? I only ask this here because I know on the main boards I'd be eaten alive, please don't take offense I just want to understand.0 -
Glad I could bring this to people. Very surprised you hadn't stumbled across it yet though Deadvim. I've quickly learned how much you like to read. ;-)
I'm still new to this too but the way I understand it it's not about carbs not being burnt and stored. The insulin flooding your system from the carbs causes the fats to be stored. In the absence ( or reduction) of carbs we are able to control the insulin release, which in turn leaves the fat free to be used as energy.
Yes, if you were to over indulge to extremes the extra fat would be stored but that goes for carbs too. The body converts carbs to glucose but can only store a limited amount. Excess glucose is then converted and stored as fat.(I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong)
I really am starting to believe that the key is completly in the macros and apart from extremes calories don't play anywhere near as big a part in it as we're all lead to believe.0 -
wfte, Yeh, that's how I understand it too.
I think the key to all of this is to be lower carb for long enough so that the body can *readily* utilise fats as energy all day, not just at night when we enter a naturally fasted state and some degree of ketosis, whether we are low carb or not.
We are giving the body the message that it is OK (and desirable) to use our fat stores for energy ... we maintain muscle mass by resistance training and consuming adequate dietary protein. We should also eat adequate calories, of course, or the body will down-regulate. The body wants to survive above all else. We also need the nutrients that adequate food will provide.
This is the whole 'fat adapted' or 'keto adapted' state. We change our physiology to burn fats (dietary or internal) readily.
In this state we can use the dietary carbohydrate to top-up the liver or muscles (with glycogen) or fuel the brain (which needs some glucose) but we are not dependant on it for energy (hence the lack of general appetite, we are eating ourselves, effectively).
If we regularly consume carbohydrate beyond what our muscles/brain/liver need then the body will store this away for later (as saturated fat, ironically, given the fat-phobia) as high blood sugar is highly toxic and the body will do everything to lower it ... and therein lies the path to Type 2 Diabetes.
Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes is just a side-effect of carbohydrate intolerance, it's the physical effect of the body desperately trying to stave off high blood sugar. IMO.
Add in refined carbs and sharp blood sugar spikes and the path is pretty clear. To me anyway.
Given the rise in obesity/diabetes/metabolic syndrome coincides with the rapidly increasing consumption of such carbohydrates, and a fear of dietary fat, does it take a great leap of faith to connect the two?
Now, people will argue all they like about who is right, what other mechanisms are at play, whether Lustig is annoying (he is, but he has some good points) and whether sugar/wheat/whatever is the issue but maybe the simplest explanation is the right one? Cut the sugars are starches and lose weight.
Sure, you need to watch the calories at some point but why not optimise the body first?
Sort the engine, then worry about the fuel.
Why, if you are diabetic, would you be advised to regularly consume vast quantities of the thing that you are intolerant to (and got you there) is a baffling question I have raised elsewhere here. Unless you want to sell insulin to manage it and therefore keep the diabetic on life-long treatment and all the potential complications that can arise.
Math_Geek ... As I understand it dietary fat gets stored as fat very easily, this would appear to be Bad News for someone like me on at least 65% fat as calories. However, if you are 'fat adapted' then your body is used to using fat for fuel so will burn it readily.
In the absence of excess insulin (which fat does not stimulate) then the body will "turn-over" fat more quickly, so it will be constantly cycling in and out of fat stores, not stuck in there as would be the case if you had regular high blood sugar.
(edit) I just added "excess", dietary protein will stimulate insulin, as it should, to store away the amino acids and whatnot, it just won't stimulate as much as carbohydrate and the spike will not last as long.
Just my thoughts anyway.
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That has been my question ever since I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Fortunately, my doctor, who diagnosed me, "prescribed" the South Beach diet and told me NOT to go on a "diabetic" diet as his experience with his patients was that diabetic diets just increased their need for more and more medication. Later, when South Beach was just no longer working for me he put me on an even lower carb diet. It works. While I take supplements, I do not need medication to control my BG levels. I currently eat under 20 grams of carbs a day. Diabetic diets recommend twice that much per meal. There is no way my BG would average 109 on that many carbs. Controlling my BG is only the beginning of the many physical benefits I am experiencing on an extremely low carb intake which includes the reduction in aches and pains and no more bleeding gums. It all just confirms how intolerant I am of carbs.Why, if you are diabetic, would you be advised to regularly consume vast quantities of the thing that you are intolerant to (and got you there) is a baffling question I have raised elsewhere here. Unless you want to sell insulin to manage it and therefore keep the diabetic on life-long treatment and all the potential complications that can arise.0 -
That has been my question ever since I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Fortunately, my doctor, who diagnosed me, "prescribed" the South Beach diet and told me NOT to go on a "diabetic" diet as his experience with his patients was that diabetic diets just increased their need for more and more medication. Later, when South Beach was just no longer working for me he put me on an even lower carb diet. It works. While I take supplements, I do not need medication to control my BG levels. I currently eat under 20 grams of carbs a day. Diabetic diets recommend twice that much per meal. There is no way my BG would average 109 on that many carbs. Controlling my BG is only the beginning of the many physical benefits I am experiencing on an extremely low carb intake which includes the reduction in aches and pains and no more bleeding gums. It all just confirms how intolerant I am of carbs.
That's great news. A shame you cannot handle carbohydrate in any quantity but much better than a lifetime of BG medication and the looming fear of diabetic complications
Good to hear that there are some forward-thinking doctors who will think outside the insulin-prescribing box.
I was reading a high-profile diabetic magazine at the doctor's the other month and sure enough people were warned off of 'low carb' because of the 'potential long term dangers' and the fact we need carbs for energy ... <bangs ... head ... on ... wall>.
I think it's going the same way as 'high cholesterol' ... Just manage the symptoms and keep prescribing the drugs ...0 -
I was reading a high-profile diabetic magazine at the doctor's the other month and sure enough people were warned off of 'low carb' because of the 'potential long term dangers' and the fact we need carbs for energy ... <bangs ... head ... on ... wall>.
I dont know if we have any Alton Brown die-hards here but, he had done a show to explain how he lost his weight because so many people both supportive and paranoid chimed in on how he did it. He and his publicist couldnt keep up with the replies, etc ergo a show dedicated to healthy eating and the things he did to get healthier.
He affectionately referred to "no whites", referencing breads/grains/cereal/pasta/rice/corn (sound familiar?)... he allowed himself one portion of pasta per week. If he had anything grain-related, it was in its purest form and it was used when making protein bars and granola bars (all on the same episode).. People believed every word he said - and quite literally. So literally that the farmers who grow/harvest cauliflower went on a campaign to complain against Alton Brown because of a serious decline in the sales of cauliflower at stores and market stands.
Alton Brown had to do yet, ANOTHER show to further explain his "no whites" comment, and that cauliflower is truly EXEMPT from that category. From that point on, he dedicated the show to cauliflower, the different varieties and of course, yummy recipes....
That one show was enough to make a financial impact on growers, markets and farmstands - it was HUGE!
So - now with the whole modification of carbohydrates, the farmers/markets/bakeries/stores and quite possibly big corporations (GMO's daddy), are feeling threatened - thus that article you read Vim... paranoia is setting in... but.... its not setting in fast enough....
Thankfully more and more healthcare practitioners are incorporating a "good carb-bad carb" philosophy... If you compare the foods of about 25-30 years ago - it was pretty damn close to being in its natural state (Wonder Bread was the number one bread on the market)... As times progress, and more and more controls and monopolizations of farms/farmers, manufacturing companies and such means a drastic change in how our food is made (in some cases created..), and in crazy amounts... Its bad enough that there is one grocery aisle of nothing but bread. I once attempted to count the number of brand names in that one aisle and I simply gave up.... its incredible - and disgusting all at the same time.
I am disgusted with how much negative influence exists when it comes to people wanting to make the right/better choices. Unfortunately the old-school thinking of 25-30 years ago regarding food, just does not fix the issues of today when food has drastically been changed, altered, and in rising cases - being genetically modified... we Americans (and other countries as well) have become the Government's lab experiment: one that I never wanted to be used as a test case... its wrecked my life...0 -
...<warning: rant ahead> I have seen too many diabetics just managing the symptoms with medication while eating whatever they want or fooling themselves that their diet is fine because they are staying within the guidelines of their diabetic diet. All the while the amount of medication they need to take goes up and up and up. Insulin amounts increase and every time they increase the insulin the doctor or nutritionist increases the amount of carbs they should eat to decrease the risk of insulin reaction. Plus all the meds to protect them from the side affects of the meds they are on. It's insane. And it doesn't stop the damage that diabetes is doing to their body. And when they see me losing weight and controlling my BG with just diet they say they could never give up bread, or pasta or whatever. Or, worse... it's too expensive to eat healthy. Come on! Even just paying the co-pays on medication your spending more than it costs to eat healthy. You either spend the money on good food or on medication. I guess the problem is that good food doesn't include macaroni and cheese. <end rant>That has been my question ever since I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Fortunately, my doctor, who diagnosed me, "prescribed" the South Beach diet and told me NOT to go on a "diabetic" diet as his experience with his patients was that diabetic diets just increased their need for more and more medication. Later, when South Beach was just no longer working for me he put me on an even lower carb diet. It works. While I take supplements, I do not need medication to control my BG levels. I currently eat under 20 grams of carbs a day. Diabetic diets recommend twice that much per meal. There is no way my BG would average 109 on that many carbs. Controlling my BG is only the beginning of the many physical benefits I am experiencing on an extremely low carb intake which includes the reduction in aches and pains and no more bleeding gums. It all just confirms how intolerant I am of carbs.
That's great news. A shame you cannot handle carbohydrate in any quantity but much better than a lifetime of BG medication and the looming fear of diabetic complications
Good to hear that there are some forward-thinking doctors who will think outside the insulin-prescribing box.
I was reading a high-profile diabetic magazine at the doctor's the other month and sure enough people were warned off of 'low carb' because of the 'potential long term dangers' and the fact we need carbs for energy ... <bangs ... head ... on ... wall>.
I think it's going the same way as 'high cholesterol' ... Just manage the symptoms and keep prescribing the drugs ...0 -
I love Alton Brown. I'll have to look up those episodes on the internet.I was reading a high-profile diabetic magazine at the doctor's the other month and sure enough people were warned off of 'low carb' because of the 'potential long term dangers' and the fact we need carbs for energy ... <bangs ... head ... on ... wall>.
I dont know if we have any Alton Brown die-hards here but, he had done a show to explain how he lost his weight because so many people both supportive and paranoid chimed in on how he did it. He and his publicist couldnt keep up with the replies, etc ergo a show dedicated to healthy eating and the things he did to get healthier.
He affectionately referred to "no whites", referencing breads/grains/cereal/pasta/rice/corn (sound familiar?)... he allowed himself one portion of pasta per week. If he had anything grain-related, it was in its purest form and it was used when making protein bars and granola bars (all on the same episode).. People believed every word he said - and quite literally. So literally that the farmers who grow/harvest cauliflower went on a campaign to complain against Alton Brown because of a serious decline in the sales of cauliflower at stores and market stands.
Alton Brown had to do yet, ANOTHER show to further explain his "no whites" comment, and that cauliflower is truly EXEMPT from that category. From that point on, he dedicated the show to cauliflower, the different varieties and of course, yummy recipes....
That one show was enough to make a financial impact on growers, markets and farmstands - it was HUGE!
So - now with the whole modification of carbohydrates, the farmers/markets/bakeries/stores and quite possibly big corporations (GMO's daddy), are feeling threatened - thus that article you read Vim... paranoia is setting in... but.... its not setting in fast enough....
Thankfully more and more healthcare practitioners are incorporating a "good carb-bad carb" philosophy... If you compare the foods of about 25-30 years ago - it was pretty damn close to being in its natural state (Wonder Bread was the number one bread on the market)... As times progress, and more and more controls and monopolizations of farms/farmers, manufacturing companies and such means a drastic change in how our food is made (in some cases created..), and in crazy amounts... Its bad enough that there is one grocery aisle of nothing but bread. I once attempted to count the number of brand names in that one aisle and I simply gave up.... its incredible - and disgusting all at the same time.
I am disgusted with how much negative influence exists when it comes to people wanting to make the right/better choices. Unfortunately the old-school thinking of 25-30 years ago regarding food, just does not fix the issues of today when food has drastically been changed, altered, and in rising cases - being genetically modified... we Americans (and other countries as well) have become the Government's lab experiment: one that I never wanted to be used as a test case... its wrecked my life...0 -
Ive spent a large amount of time this evening checking out this website
http://eatingacademy.com/
I imagine some people here have already visited it but thought I'd post it up for those that haven't.
A lot of enlightening stuff there.
Thanks for this, lots of great info 0 -
I heard about Alton Brown in passing, probably on the Jimmy Moore blog (some good info there, he seems like a really genuine guy totally transparent about his health struggles and willing to interview anyone with an interesting perspective).
LauraDotts ... Yup, it's madness ... If people "cannot give up" pasta, bread, etc then maybe they are willing to give up a limb instead? It's all about making choices, one at a time. Doesn't have to be expensive or elitist either ...
Talking of choices, I have just had some Doritos ... The perils of getting home stressed and hungry with nothing healthy prepared ... I shall make up for it.0 -
Seeing as this has turned to a semi-rant thread, I'm getting very close to hiding away in this group and not visiting any of the general forums. I find myself screaming at the screen sometimes and just want to reply but know 90% of the time what I say will be shot down. A few favourite head banging lines:
It doesn't matter, as long as you're more calories than you burn.
Similar to
You need to eat less and exercise more
Sugars from fruit are ok as they come from fruit , just watch refined sugars( usually from people who will criticise HFCS! Do they not know the issues with HFCS is the higher percentage of fructose, an even bigger issue in fruit)
Eat less fat
"Healthy" fats ( this one really kills me, yes it's right but you know they aren't just discounting trans fats)
Eat lots of whole grains, oats , brown rice etc.
Argghj the list goes on! I'm going to stop there as I can feel my body flooding with cortisol simply writing that list!!0 -
Or their eyesight. My husband's nephew has lost his eyesight due to juvenile diabetes. I won't even begin to list the other major physical issues he is dealing with due to diabetes. He is 28 years old. We will be fortunate if he is still with us at 30. I know that Juvenile diabetes is a whole different ballgame than type 2 but you can't just eat whatever you want and expect insulin shots to take care of you. Meanwhile, his mother who is type 2, eats 60+ carbs per meal based on her physician and diabetic dietician's recommendation. Her meds keep going up and her heart is starting to show signs of damage. But... she "could never give up fruit and pasta".LauraDotts ... Yup, it's madness ... If people "cannot give up" pasta, bread, etc then maybe they are willing to give up a limb instead? It's all about making choices, one at a time. Doesn't have to be expensive or elitist either ...
On a good note: After months of me buckling down on my own diet, getting my BG back under control and losing weight, and a doctor chewing him out, my husband is finally taking control of his pasta addiction and is watching his diet, logging here and is on his way to reducing weight and meds. I help him plan his meals. I don't have him set as low carb as I would like him to be because he is on diabetes medications but it is much lower carb than it was.0 -
Some people just don't get that sugar is sugar is sugar no matter its source.Sugars from fruit are ok as they come from fruit , just watch refined sugars( usually from people who will criticise HFCS! Do they not know the issues with HFCS is the higher percentage of fructose, an even bigger issue in fruit)
I won't tell them I had a delicious snack last night of bacon wrapped in lettuce with mayo. Yum.Eat less fat.0 -
Some people just don't get that sugar is sugar is sugar no matter its source.Sugars from fruit are ok as they come from fruit , just watch refined sugars( usually from people who will criticise HFCS! Do they not know the issues with HFCS is the higher percentage of fructose, an even bigger issue in fruit)
I won't tell them I had a delicious snack last night of bacon wrapped in lettuce with mayo. Yum.Eat less fat.
LauraDotts is spot on: even fruits can have a negative impact. The best way to determine which fruits are more optimal than others would be defined by the Glycemic Index. The better choices would be from the berry category. They are low glycemic (aka least impact on insulin spikes) however, they still contain sugar after you do the math for CHO-FIBER yields remaining sugar grams.
I am having the worst carb withdrawals today because of yesterday's function at work. I volunteered to bring in fresh fruit for our breakfast and kept the carb counts no more than 20g of total carbohydrates on the fruit alone for my portion. I did very good but I still have the traditional carb headaches, body inflammation and joint pain even with fresh fruit. Im in quite a bit of pain and waiting for the advil to take effect right now as I type this.
It will take me a good week to get rid of the inflammation but I know the exercising I have planned for today and Friday will definitely shorten that considerably.
So yes - even fruit has to be limited for those who follow low carb intakes...0 -
Knowing the glycemic index is helpful. I eat to my glucometer. That's how I know that no fruit can be in my diet right now. Tomato spikes my BG. Berries spike it. I can't really cheat even a little bit because if it spikes high it can take days of eating perfect to get it to stay down again. If I go over 60 carbs in a day I will have carb cravings the next day and I'm miserable. It's just not worth it.LauraDotts is spot on: even fruits can have a negative impact. The best way to determine which fruits are more optimal than others would be defined by the Glycemic Index. The better choices would be from the berry category. They are low glycemic (aka least impact on insulin spikes) however, they still contain sugar after you do the math for CHO-FIBER yields remaining sugar grams.
I am having the worst carb withdrawals today because of yesterday's function at work. I volunteered to bring in fresh fruit for our breakfast and kept the carb counts no more than 20g of total carbohydrates on the fruit alone for my portion. I did very good but I still have the traditional carb headaches, body inflammation and joint pain even with fresh fruit. Im in quite a bit of pain and waiting for the advil to take effect right now as I type this.
It will take me a good week to get rid of the inflammation but I know the exercising I have planned for today and Friday will definitely shorten that considerably.
So yes - even fruit has to be limited for those who follow low carb intakes...0 -
Seeing as this has turned to a semi-rant thread, I'm getting very close to hiding away in this group and not visiting any of the general forums. I find myself screaming at the screen sometimes and just want to reply but know 90% of the time what I say will be shot down. A few favourite head banging lines:
It doesn't matter, as long as you're more calories than you burn.
Similar to
You need to eat less and exercise more
Sugars from fruit are ok as they come from fruit , just watch refined sugars( usually from people who will criticise HFCS! Do they not know the issues with HFCS is the higher percentage of fructose, an even bigger issue in fruit)
Eat less fat
"Healthy" fats ( this one really kills me, yes it's right but you know they aren't just discounting trans fats)
Eat lots of whole grains, oats , brown rice etc.
Argghj the list goes on! I'm going to stop there as I can feel my body flooding with cortisol simply writing that list!!
I feel your pain, I think its got a lot more aggressive on the forums from when I first joined. If you are not following the same eating plan as everyone else you get ATTACKED. Oh well, we can hide away in here 0 -
I won't tell them I had a delicious snack last night of bacon wrapped in lettuce with mayo. Yum.
Sounds like my kind of nibble.
Tell them all, tell them all.
Take a picture of it, post that.
Take a picture of it being eaten, post that.
Hell, take a blood test and post the results.
The #1 annoyance for me in the wider world, even more so than "A calorie is a calorie" (and this *is* annoying enough) are people that avoid eggs due to their 'fat content' or 'cholesterol'. Much work needed to reverse this kind of thinking.
I can see why people would avoid fat, it sort of makes sense that consuming fat will make you fat. It ain't necessarily true (in the absence of excess carbohydrate) but it's kind of engrained by Food Pyramid/Plate and 'nutritional experts'.0 -
I'll have to get a picture. LOL!!I won't tell them I had a delicious snack last night of bacon wrapped in lettuce with mayo. Yum.
Sounds like my kind of nibble.
Tell them all, tell them all.
Take a picture of it, post that.
Take a picture of it being eaten, post that.
Hell, take a blood test and post the results.
The #1 annoyance for me in the wider world, even more so than "A calorie is a calorie" (and this *is* annoying enough) are people that avoid eggs due to their 'fat content' or 'cholesterol'. Much work needed to reverse this kind of thinking.
I can see why people would avoid fat, it sort of makes sense that consuming fat will make you fat. It ain't necessarily true (in the absence of excess carbohydrate) but it's kind of engrained by Food Pyramid/Plate and 'nutritional experts'.
I remember getting mad at the documentary "Super Size Me". Yes, eating nothing but McD's raised his cholesterol and triglycerides. But they automatically blamed the fat content instead of the massive amounts of carbohydrates and sugar.0
