gaining muscle NOT LOSING FAT
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lilbuzzinbee
Posts: 3 Member
Dear Group,
I've spent the last 2 1/2 years trying to lose weight (really the last 30 years but you know). In that time I've managed to put on about 10 lbs. (I did P90X, Jillian Michaels 30 day shred, weight watchers, and on and on.) Since just before the holidays 2012, I discovered this group, read the EM2LW pdf, read the In Place of a Roadmap 2.0 and purchased the book The New Rules of Lifting.
There are some pretty significant differences in the book in terms of calories needed than in the other two resources online. I am 5' 8" and weighed 190 when I started this program but it's possible that I've confused all the slightly different advice and I am doing this wrong. I just finished phase 1 of the workout program from the book; have increased the weights significantly throughout the approx 7 weeks it took to complete and feel increases in muscle definition. My biceps, quads and hamstrings especially feel harder. I don't really see much change in definition but I feel pretty certain I've gained muscle mass.
What hasn't changed much is my size and weight, in fact I've gained a few pounds. My clothes are not looser and I have gained a quarter an inch in my waist. I've basically lost no inches at all and although I know that when I become stressed about my body I can tend to not see clearly, I really do feel like I'm getting fatter.
Here is where I'm stuck. Do I increase my calories? A lot of advice seems to indicate that. I'd chosen to follow the book's advice and did not cut at all and aimed for 1700 cals on non-workout days and 1993 on days I lifted which are the numbers I can hit without gaining. I tried to concentrate on my protein intake and hit my mark. I went over my cals sometimes but I felt like I was working on target.
If I follow the Road Map or the EM2LW gals, it seems that maybe I should reset my metabolism by increasing my cals to 2200 which according to their guides is the cals I need to maintain my weight on the Lightly Active setting. (I live in NYC, walk a lot, ride my bike to work 3 days out of 5, and have been lifting 3 days a week.) This terrifies me. I'm at the point where I'm just about sized out of my clothes; dresses that fit over the summer or perhaps were a tad tight can no longer be worn. Also, this is not the number the book is telling me I can hit without gaining. It's 500 cals more for non workout days.
I thought maybe I had been inaccurately tracking my food, not measuring, etc. I wonder if eating chocolate or drinking wine is the reason I'm not successful regardless of whether or not I hit my targets from that day and didn't exceed. My instinct is to think I'm not doing the food part correctly, that I'm not dieting enough, that I'm not focusing hard enough, that I'm eating too much bread. It is hard to believe I can eat more and lose weight. It's also hard to believe that I can eat in a way that I'm comfortable with and not feel obsessive or deprived and lose fat. I've been eating wholesome foods for a long time now. I eat a lot of salad and fish and good protein. I don't eat much processed food at all except the occasional high fiber cereal. I know I'm getting my nutrition but I am still fat. I enjoy the workouts and the challenges of increasing the weights being lifted and I know I should just keep doing what I'm doing, but I honestly don't know if I should eat 2200 or 1700, a big difference or less. Maybe I'm not losing fat because I'm eating too much. Maybe I'm not losing fat because I'm not eating enough (very hard to believe.) Either way, how do I know?
I'm not sure what anyone can do for me here but if you have any advice on how to reconcile the book and this group and the Road Map, I'd greatly appreciate it. My boyfriend tells me all the time how impressed he is with how hard I try. I never give up this battle. I won't be satisfied until I am fit and not fat. So, I'm here to work, I'm willing to do whatever it takes so long as its not dangerous. The problem is really which road to take.
Thanks.
Bee
I've spent the last 2 1/2 years trying to lose weight (really the last 30 years but you know). In that time I've managed to put on about 10 lbs. (I did P90X, Jillian Michaels 30 day shred, weight watchers, and on and on.) Since just before the holidays 2012, I discovered this group, read the EM2LW pdf, read the In Place of a Roadmap 2.0 and purchased the book The New Rules of Lifting.
There are some pretty significant differences in the book in terms of calories needed than in the other two resources online. I am 5' 8" and weighed 190 when I started this program but it's possible that I've confused all the slightly different advice and I am doing this wrong. I just finished phase 1 of the workout program from the book; have increased the weights significantly throughout the approx 7 weeks it took to complete and feel increases in muscle definition. My biceps, quads and hamstrings especially feel harder. I don't really see much change in definition but I feel pretty certain I've gained muscle mass.
What hasn't changed much is my size and weight, in fact I've gained a few pounds. My clothes are not looser and I have gained a quarter an inch in my waist. I've basically lost no inches at all and although I know that when I become stressed about my body I can tend to not see clearly, I really do feel like I'm getting fatter.
Here is where I'm stuck. Do I increase my calories? A lot of advice seems to indicate that. I'd chosen to follow the book's advice and did not cut at all and aimed for 1700 cals on non-workout days and 1993 on days I lifted which are the numbers I can hit without gaining. I tried to concentrate on my protein intake and hit my mark. I went over my cals sometimes but I felt like I was working on target.
If I follow the Road Map or the EM2LW gals, it seems that maybe I should reset my metabolism by increasing my cals to 2200 which according to their guides is the cals I need to maintain my weight on the Lightly Active setting. (I live in NYC, walk a lot, ride my bike to work 3 days out of 5, and have been lifting 3 days a week.) This terrifies me. I'm at the point where I'm just about sized out of my clothes; dresses that fit over the summer or perhaps were a tad tight can no longer be worn. Also, this is not the number the book is telling me I can hit without gaining. It's 500 cals more for non workout days.
I thought maybe I had been inaccurately tracking my food, not measuring, etc. I wonder if eating chocolate or drinking wine is the reason I'm not successful regardless of whether or not I hit my targets from that day and didn't exceed. My instinct is to think I'm not doing the food part correctly, that I'm not dieting enough, that I'm not focusing hard enough, that I'm eating too much bread. It is hard to believe I can eat more and lose weight. It's also hard to believe that I can eat in a way that I'm comfortable with and not feel obsessive or deprived and lose fat. I've been eating wholesome foods for a long time now. I eat a lot of salad and fish and good protein. I don't eat much processed food at all except the occasional high fiber cereal. I know I'm getting my nutrition but I am still fat. I enjoy the workouts and the challenges of increasing the weights being lifted and I know I should just keep doing what I'm doing, but I honestly don't know if I should eat 2200 or 1700, a big difference or less. Maybe I'm not losing fat because I'm eating too much. Maybe I'm not losing fat because I'm not eating enough (very hard to believe.) Either way, how do I know?
I'm not sure what anyone can do for me here but if you have any advice on how to reconcile the book and this group and the Road Map, I'd greatly appreciate it. My boyfriend tells me all the time how impressed he is with how hard I try. I never give up this battle. I won't be satisfied until I am fit and not fat. So, I'm here to work, I'm willing to do whatever it takes so long as its not dangerous. The problem is really which road to take.
Thanks.
Bee
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Replies
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Hi Bee,
If you've been consistently eating under your TDEE in your efforts to lose weight - and you indicate you have been "really trying for 2.5 years," then it would be beneficial to you to do an official reset.
It is great that you are gaining muscle - that can only help you in the long run. Muscle is your metabolism's best friend! Keep on with the strength training.
Be prepared for the mental challenge of increasing calories, and be really diligent about the food tracking and you should find it to be a good experience. It's quite a relief to eat what your body needs after a sustained period of denying it.0 -
How long were you eating at TDEE on lifting and non-lifting days?
If you've gotten much stronger without weight really going up, you indeed probably made some trades of fat to muscle, that is swelled with carbs and water stored so may not be able to tell the difference.
If you were doing all that lifting time eating at those levels, you may indeed be ready to have a deficit.
Be prepared for weight advancement to come harder when eating at a deficit. Be prepared to be hungry as body is used to make improvements and you aren't going to feed it enough to encourage using the fat as extra energy.
And get a good bodyfat% estimate so your math is based on best estimated BMR of Katch, since if you have more LBM than expected, no need to create too big a deficit and risk it.
Oh, if trying to use most accurate BMR, you better be honest with activity.
Lightly Active, 1 to 3 hrs of exercise. And you do how much?
And that is on top of how much walking around for other daily activity?
I'm not really sure why you would be estimating TDEE though when you already did it, and were doing it.
If you were not gaining weight during that time, that was your TDEE. Just avg it out then to daily level.0 -
How long were you eating at TDEE on lifting and non-lifting days?
And get a good bodyfat% estimate so your math is based on best estimated BMR of Katch, since if you have more LBM than expected, no need to create too big a deficit and risk it.
Oh, if trying to use most accurate BMR, you better be honest with activity.
Lightly Active, 1 to 3 hrs of exercise. And you do how much?
And that is on top of how much walking around for other daily activity?
I'm not really sure why you would be estimating TDEE though when you already did it, and were doing it.
If you were not gaining weight during that time, that was your TDEE. Just avg it out then to daily level.
heybales: thanks for your reply. a few answers and questions. I was eating at the recommended TDEE from the book which was 1700 on non-lift days and 1990 on lift days. BUT the numbers I run from the EM2LW protocol tell me my TDEE is 2200 a day. So, I wasn't eating that much for the last 6 weeks, Phase 1 of the workouts. This is where most of my confusion stems from. I gained weight and went up a size during Phase 1 eating approx 1700/day on non-lift and 1990 on lifts. If I've gained weight and gone up a size, doesn't that mean I'm eating too much?
Also, as for activity, I have a desk job. I have a challenging bike ride 3 days a week for a total of 30 minutes a day. In addition, I lift 3 days a week and walk every day though not for exercise as much as with a destination. Lightly active or Moderate?0 -
heybales: thanks for your reply. a few answers and questions. I was eating at the recommended TDEE from the book which was 1700 on non-lift days and 1990 on lift days. BUT the numbers I run from the EM2LW protocol tell me my TDEE is 2200 a day. So, I wasn't eating that much for the last 6 weeks, Phase 1 of the workouts. This is where most of my confusion stems from. I gained weight and went up a size during Phase 1 eating approx 1700/day on non-lift and 1990 on lifts. If I've gained weight and gone up a size, doesn't that mean I'm eating too much?
Also, as for activity, I have a desk job. I have a challenging bike ride 3 days a week for a total of 30 minutes a day. In addition, I lift 3 days a week and walk every day though not for exercise as much as with a destination. Lightly active or Moderate?
A formula and you picking 1 of 4 exercise levels can NOT tell you your TDEE.
Your real TDEE is what causes you to maintain, outside water weight gains from exercise improvements.
Your estimated TDEE is an attempt to find that.
You at at 1700 and 1990 (4 x and 3 x weekly respectively?) and slightly gained weight. Even if LBM and even if 1 lb of muscle (might be possible in 6 weeks as new to it) gained, you didn't lose any fat then, so NOT in a deficit, and sounds like slightly above real TDEE.
What much did you gain in the last 6 weeks eating at that level?
Am I correct on the amount of days each week eaten at that level?
Was it a constant small gain the whole time, or x the first week, and y the weeks after that?
And did you weigh-in on valid days? Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, and not still sore, that's the only valid weigh-in day.0
