Continue losing weight or start building muscles?
_SABOTEUR_
Posts: 6,833 Member
In total I've lost about 90lbs in the past 3 years (50lbs since May 2012). I've reached my initial goal weight of 205lbs (I am now 203lbs and 6ft4, BMI 24.7) and the absolute lowest I want to go down to is 190lbs.
I'm wondering if I should start to bulk (I currently do Stronglifts and Insanity at the same time in small calorie deficit) to gain muscle and then lose the remaining fat or if it will be better to lose the fat first and then start to build up my muscle.
I realise there are probably pros and cons to both, but I'd really appreciate people's opinions about which one will work best for me.
My only time limit goal atm is to look good with my top off in the summer. Dunno if that'll make a difference.
I'm wondering if I should start to bulk (I currently do Stronglifts and Insanity at the same time in small calorie deficit) to gain muscle and then lose the remaining fat or if it will be better to lose the fat first and then start to build up my muscle.
I realise there are probably pros and cons to both, but I'd really appreciate people's opinions about which one will work best for me.
My only time limit goal atm is to look good with my top off in the summer. Dunno if that'll make a difference.
0
Replies
-
My personal opinion..and I know we need to get back to you with your BF% estimate, but your BF% is too high to be ideal to bulk. I would look to go as low as you are comfortable and then bulk.
Rule of thumb: bulk at 10% or lower, cut at 15%. These %ages may well be higher if you do not have the LBM to support going as low as 10% and you may need to bulk at a higher BF%.0 -
Thanks, Sara. I realise I am nowhere near 10% and over 15% as well, so those benchmarks really help.0
-
My personal opinion..and I know we need to get back to you with your BF% estimate, but your BF% is too high to be ideal to bulk. I would look to go as low as you are comfortable and then bulk.
Rule of thumb: bulk at 10% or lower, cut at 15%. These %ages may well be higher if you do not have the LBM to support going as low as 10% and you may need to bulk at a higher BF%.
Can you please provide the guides for females, please? This is the gist of the question I've had.
Sorry to hijack a thread.
Thanks,0 -
My personal opinion..and I know we need to get back to you with your BF% estimate, but your BF% is too high to be ideal to bulk. I would look to go as low as you are comfortable and then bulk.
Rule of thumb: bulk at 10% or lower, cut at 15%. These %ages may well be higher if you do not have the LBM to support going as low as 10% and you may need to bulk at a higher BF%.
Can you please provide the guides for females, please? This is the gist of the question I've had.
Sorry to hijack a thread.
Thanks,
19-27% is a reasonable ballpark.
A good read: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html0 -
Thank you for the response.0
-
Thanks! (Bump)0
-
How long have you been doing Stronglifts or a similar program for?0
-
Thanks for article link SideSteel.
The article mentions body recomposition:
'fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan'
I tried this using http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ but the variance between exercise and rest days was about 1500 cals and I found this too difficult to maintain.
Is their any more literature you can recommend about body recomp? And what are your personal opinions about it?0 -
How long have you been doing Stronglifts or a similar program for?
Stronglifts for about 8-9 weeks. Before that I did dumbbell workouts at home 3 sets 6-10 reps of various exercises (more isolation exercises than compound). I worked to failure on most exercises, but didn't increase weight very often (about once a month). I did that for about 5 months between July and December.0 -
Thanks for article link SideSteel.
The article mentions body recomposition:
'fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan'
I tried this using http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ but the variance between exercise and rest days was about 1500 cals and I found this too difficult to maintain.
Is their any more literature you can recommend about body recomp? And what are your personal opinions about it?
I don't believe it's necessary to take a cyclical approach unless there are preferential reasons for it. A steady intake will get you great results.
I think at least one issue you've had (and don't get me wrong, there are MANY people who would love to say they've lost 90lbs so you should be proud --- I'm just trying to clarify something here) -- is not increasing the weight as you are lifting.
Moving forward you should be attempting to increase strength as time goes on. This is pretty much mandatory and it will make a considerable difference in your physique over the course of time.
If you are lifting the exact same weight three months from now, at the same volume/density/etc, you will at best maintain LBM.
In your current position I would guess that you may be able to gain a small amount of LBM in a deficit, but that's a total guess on my part.0 -
what sort of caloric surplus should I be using to build muscle. I don't want to put fat back on... is it possible to stay lean and build muscle?0
-
Thanks for article link SideSteel.
The article mentions body recomposition:
'fatter trainees can usually gain some muscle while losing fat with a basic recomposition plan'
I tried this using http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ but the variance between exercise and rest days was about 1500 cals and I found this too difficult to maintain.
Is their any more literature you can recommend about body recomp? And what are your personal opinions about it?
I don't believe it's necessary to take a cyclical approach unless there are preferential reasons for it. A steady intake will get you great results.
I think at least one issue you've had (and don't get me wrong, there are MANY people who would love to say they've lost 90lbs so you should be proud --- I'm just trying to clarify something here) -- is not increasing the weight as you are lifting.
Moving forward you should be attempting to increase strength as time goes on. This is pretty much mandatory and it will make a considerable difference in your physique over the course of time.
If you are lifting the exact same weight three months from now, at the same volume/density/etc, you will at best maintain LBM.
In your current position I would guess that you may be able to gain a small amount of LBM in a deficit, but that's a total guess on my part.
Thanks. I am now doing this with Stronglifts. I increase 2.5kg every session as the guide suggests. It's still pretty easy with deads and squats (both at 90kg now). Not so much with bench, shoulder and rows (45-55kg range at mo).0 -
what sort of caloric surplus should I be using to build muscle. I don't want to put fat back on... is it possible to stay lean and build muscle?
Generally speaking I'd start around 10% above TDEE and shoot for about .5lb/week or so rate of gain, but see below as this can vary based on training experience/etc.
You're going to put on fat while bulking but keeping your rate of gain somewhat reasonable will help to reduce the fatassery.
See here for some good brainfood: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
EDIT: I linked this earlier in the thread, but if you missed it, read this too:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html0 -
Thanks. I am now doing this with Stronglifts. I increase 2.5kg every session as the guide suggests. It's still pretty easy with deads and squats (both at 90kg now). Not so much with bench, shoulder and rows (45-55kg range at mo).
I think it would be beneficial to continue to do the Stronglifts program for a while longer before looking to bulk. This will allow you to get your form down better and make more strength gains, and therefore be at a higher potential for muscle gains when you do bulk.
So, in summary, and hopefully SideSteel will call me an idiot if he disagrees (which will be funny..and when I say funny...well....), but I would:
- keep cutting with a modest caloric deficit
- keep progressing with Stronglifts
- give it *at least* 4 months more of Stronglifts before bulking
- if you get too thin for comfort prior to that, up your calories to maintenance
- when ready (possibly in the fall), start upping your calories to get yourself 200 - 300 above maintenance to bulk.0 -
Thanks. I am now doing this with Stronglifts. I increase 2.5kg every session as the guide suggests. It's still pretty easy with deads and squats (both at 90kg now). Not so much with bench, shoulder and rows (45-55kg range at mo).
I think it would be beneficial to continue to do the Stronglifts program for a while longer before looking to bulk. This will allow you to get your form down better and make more strength gains, and therefore be at a higher potential for muscle gains when you do bulk.
So, in summary, and hopefully SideSteel will call me an idiot if he disagrees (which will be funny..and when I say funny...well....), but I would:
- keep cutting with a modest caloric deficit
- keep progressing with Stronglifts
- give it *at least* 4 months more of Stronglifts before bulking
- if you get too thin for comfort prior to that, up your calories to maintenance
- when ready (possibly in the fall), start upping your calories to get yourself 200 - 300 above maintenance to bulk.
The only thing I'd interject with would be to check back with us via PM in about 4 week intervals. I'd like to see what changes you go through in about 8 weeks in terms of stats/lifts/etc. Hard to predict at what point you'll need to adjust intake.0 -
Thanks guys. I will do as you suggest. I think I'm just getting itchy feet as it's much slower progress, bodywise, now that I'm at a much lower weight.0
-
Thanks guys. I will do as you suggest. I think I'm just getting itchy feet as it's much slower progress, bodywise, now that I'm at a much lower weight.
As you get leaner and leaner the smaller changes are more noticeable so you'll have that to look forward to.0 -
I had read that link.. thanks for the info! I'm going to stabilize at my current weight for a couple of weeks and then get started bulking up for a month or so.... sort of scary to put weight back on, but this time it's INTENTIONAL, which makes me happy.what sort of caloric surplus should I be using to build muscle. I don't want to put fat back on... is it possible to stay lean and build muscle?
Generally speaking I'd start around 10% above TDEE and shoot for about .5lb/week or so rate of gain, but see below as this can vary based on training experience/etc.
You're going to put on fat while bulking but keeping your rate of gain somewhat reasonable will help to reduce the fatassery.
See here for some good brainfood: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
EDIT: I linked this earlier in the thread, but if you missed it, read this too:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html0 -
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically0
-
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically
I cannot answer for the others but I am going to bulk soon to gain LBM, which among other things, increases your strength potential.0 -
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically
I cannot answer for the others but I am going to bulk soon to gain LBM, which among other things, increases your strength potential.
Not that I can really bulk but I've been getting progressively stronger while losing weight very, very slowly. Like maintaining 90% and losing 10% of the time.
Hard to tell from my profile pic but I weigh around 174lbs currently. I'd like to be sub-170lbs while being as strong or stronger. Meaning I need to be better technically at my lifts to improve and only lose fat as much as possible.0 -
See here for some good brainfood: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
This is kinda a downer. Im sitting at about 180 lbs at I think around 10-12% bf. According to this I can at best put on around 10lbs of muscle in my life with dedicated training.0 -
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically
I cannot answer for the others but I am going to bulk soon to gain LBM, which among other things, increases your strength potential.
Not that I can really bulk but I've been getting progressively stronger while losing weight very, very slowly. Like maintaining 90% and losing 10% of the time.
Hard to tell from my profile pic but I weigh around 174lbs currently. I'd like to be sub-170lbs while being as strong or stronger. Meaning I need to be better technically at my lifts to improve and only lose fat as much as possible.
My strength has definitely been improving pretty steadily and I have been at a deficit for coming up to a year (except for a short time over the holidays). Some of that is form improvements, but a lot of it is strength (past the newbie neuromuscular adaptation). However, I will be hitting diminishing returns soon (or maybe already have) and as such will need to add muscle to continue making gains.0 -
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically
I cannot answer for the others but I am going to bulk soon to gain LBM, which among other things, increases your strength potential.
Not that I can really bulk but I've been getting progressively stronger while losing weight very, very slowly. Like maintaining 90% and losing 10% of the time.
Hard to tell from my profile pic but I weigh around 174lbs currently. I'd like to be sub-170lbs while being as strong or stronger. Meaning I need to be better technically at my lifts to improve and only lose fat as much as possible.
My strength has definitely been improving pretty steadily and I have been at a deficit for coming up to a year (except for a short time over the holidays). Some of that is form improvements, but a lot of it is strength (past the newbie neuromuscular adaptation). However, I will be hitting diminishing returns soon (or maybe already have) and as such will need to add muscle to continue making gains.
I've been lifting for years but quite for around 10 years. But started up around 3 years ago. Lifing more serious for 2 years. I think most of the newbie gains are long gone now.0 -
You guys bulking for the sake of bulking? Or doing it to get stronger? You don't have to bulk to get stronger technically
I cannot answer for the others but I am going to bulk soon to gain LBM, which among other things, increases your strength potential.
Not that I can really bulk but I've been getting progressively stronger while losing weight very, very slowly. Like maintaining 90% and losing 10% of the time.
Hard to tell from my profile pic but I weigh around 174lbs currently. I'd like to be sub-170lbs while being as strong or stronger. Meaning I need to be better technically at my lifts to improve and only lose fat as much as possible.
My strength has definitely been improving pretty steadily and I have been at a deficit for coming up to a year (except for a short time over the holidays). Some of that is form improvements, but a lot of it is strength (past the newbie neuromuscular adaptation). However, I will be hitting diminishing returns soon (or maybe already have) and as such will need to add muscle to continue making gains.
I've been lifting for years but quite for around 10 years. But started up around 3 years ago. Lifing more serious for 2 years. I think most of the newbie gains are long gone now.
I may not have been clear - the 'newbie' neuromuscular adaptations I am referring to are the initial pop in progress you get when you start lifting (your muscles basically learning/being reminded how to work) - which is one of the reasons you make very large gains at the beginning of your lifting live v later on.0
