Check out my snatch? Olympic lifting form check
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Nice Snatch0
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Is heel lift bad? I thought it was good so long as you weren't jumping.
And sorry, I didn't check on my thread because I'm a bad person.
I have been considering getting new shoes, but I'm currently crossfitting for most of my workouts, so I was thinking about something that has enough support for box jumps but not much heel to toe drop because that makes squats bad.
Think oly shoes would work for that or would it be a crime against awesome shoes to wear them for normal crossfit use?
We're talking about heels lifting when squatting (in this case to catch the bar), not at the end of the second pull in the clean\snatch.
Look at something like the Adidas powerlift shoes, they're trainers, but have a heel like a weightlifting shoe, so kind of a crossover - I think they were actually designed with crossfit in mind. Unless you plan to compete at weightlifting in your future, in which case get a proper pair of weightlifting shoes.
Why do you think a heel toe drop is bad for squats? Where did you get this idea from?
I already knew you were a bad person, especially as you laughed at my dangerous neck injury!0 -
Is heel lift bad? I thought it was good so long as you weren't jumping.
And sorry, I didn't check on my thread because I'm a bad person.
I have been considering getting new shoes, but I'm currently crossfitting for most of my workouts, so I was thinking about something that has enough support for box jumps but not much heel to toe drop because that makes squats bad.
Think oly shoes would work for that or would it be a crime against awesome shoes to wear them for normal crossfit use?
We're talking about heels lifting when squatting (in this case to catch the bar), not at the end of the second pull in the clean\snatch.
Look at something like the Adidas powerlift shoes, they're trainers, but have a heel like a weightlifting shoe, so kind of a crossover - I think they were actually designed with crossfit in mind. Unless you plan to compete at weightlifting in your future, in which case get a proper pair of weightlifting shoes.
Why do you think a heel toe drop is bad for squats? Where did you get this idea from?
I already knew you were a bad person, especially as you laughed at my dangerous neck injury!
In my defense, I asked if you were okay before I laughed. Well, kinda after. But I asked!
Hmm. I had always thought it was the heel on the running shoes that made them suboptimal... but in reading, is it actually the extra padding/cushioning/shock absorption absorbing power from the floor when you actually want that power?
I'll read more into this shoe thing. But can I really blame my shoes, or is this a problem of me trying to catch too far forward? lol0 -
Re the shoes It's a mobility issue.
Most people won't have the ankle flexibility to get into a deep, upright torso front squat or high bar back squat position. The raised heel on a lifting shoe gives you more room to manoeuvre.
But yes you don't want to squat in squishy shoes either, the heel on an o-lifting show is solid.
As for cross fitting in them I don't know, I don't partake in such endeavours.0 -
Thanks for the explanation, sir. When I do just front squats, I keep my heels down just fine, so it isn't strictly a mobility problem. More likely me still having trouble properly dropping under the bar properly?
Was the heel raise in all of the reps or just the funky botched one at the end of the first vid? I watched and didn't see it noticeably, although it did look like my weight wasn't firmly on the heel.0 -
I don't think it's mobility either, like I said above, it's just a movement pattern issue. Even without knowing you could front squat fine, you can see a lot of ankle dorsiflexion in your video.
I think it's partly to do with where you pull the bar to, partly to do with not being used to the catch, and possibly partly to do with the weight not being heavy enough to fully pull vack without falling over. However all of this might go away with the change of start position, so I wanted to wait and see. Especially because having 100 thoughts in your head is a guaranteed recipe for a slow and horrible clean.0 -
Don't worry, I'm incapable of holding more than 1 thought in my head at a time. And usually that's "don't hit yourself in the face with the bar"
I'll get in more practice and maybe a vid on Thursday, if I've made progress.
Thanks again ^^0 -
Okay, so, I think I've gone backwards? I don't know. I've been practicing with 85#
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnepnbd300h2whk/2013-03-03 15.07.19.mov?m
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbgjfe6ia8ue8zk/2013-03-03 15.09.03.mov?m
From Sunday!0 -
Ok, I looked, and I'm gonna give you 2 drills to work on, but its late, I just got home from being in the gym for 3 hours, so I will do it later, hopefully with video, if I get a chance.0
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Thanks, Dan. You're the best!
Actually, like 65th best on my list. But that's up remarkably from where you were.0 -
Wonder who the unlucky 13, who happen to be lower down than myself are? They must be really terrible people!
Ok, so no videos yet, as I didn't go to the gym in the middle of the night, but here's what you need to be working on:
1) Hip cleans. I will try and make a video of this, but for now just consider it almost the same as high hang cleans. However have hardly any knee bend and just slight flexion at the hip. The idea is to really pop the hips, and then get back under the bar quickly. By making the movement so small, you'll have to be very powerful on the pull, and very quick returning back to catch the bar.
Hopefully the description makes sense for now, as seeing it is probably much easier. The thinking behind this is to move the focus a bit more towards hip rather than knee extension, and also make the movement more like a clean, than a jump. This in turn will make the bit that occurs previously in the full lift (the scoop) easier, as you will be moving into a position, where you know you have power, rather than trying to get in a position where you can use knee extension, in a jumpy motion.
2) Just work on the movement from the low hang, into the high hang, no pull or catch, just moving to the positions. In the video, the bar is below your knee, my guess is that you do this, because of what is mentioned above, you want knee flexion, so you can jump, hence why drill number 1 is there. Start with the bar above your knee, you can do this by moving your knees back, to make your legs straighter, because your knees will be further back, you will have to pull the bar back a bit with your lats, so that it is close to the legs. From this position, just move your torso to a vertical position. I think the rest of what is required during the scoop will happen naturally, but if you can video this drill, then we can check it is right.
Like I said, I will try to get some videos made up, but I am only going to be in the gym 1 or 2 more times before taking a recovery break of a week or 2, so depends if I get the chance, so let me know if anything in the written description is confusing, or if it makes sense.0 -
The hip clean part makes sense. The second part, kind of. Starting position makes sense, straighter legs, bar above the knee, not the sitting in a chair with a barbell on my lap position I tried last time. Ending position is shrugged up, but not dropping under and catching?
Also, I can't believe you didn't go to the gym in the middle of the night. Do you even lift?
By that, I mean thanks0 -
Ending position is shrugged up, but not dropping under and catching?
Ending position is start position of the hip clean. Just get used to moving into that position. If you're comfortable with both drills, and you're feeling bold, do one followed by the other, with a pause, and when you can do that in your sleep, you can even remove the pause!0 -
Okay! Thanks for giving me the baby steps. Should I be able to hip clean the same amount I was poorly hang cleaning? Or should it have to be much lighter?0
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Well, it will be trial an error, but I honestly think at least the same, because although you will have less momentum on the bar, hopefully it will be more aggressive, and you can also catch it lower.
When the bar gets too light, it's hard to be aggressive. I would even consider going beyond where you can catch the weight, just to get used to really aggressively popping the hips, you might even find you make what you thought you couldn't!0 -
Hmm? How would you hip clean a weight you can't catch? Just aggressively thrust the bar up and fail? This sounds like it will look comical, so I may post a vid Sunday when I attempt this0
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Okay, in typical me form, I forgot that I made vids of trying to do this. Disclaimer: I still don't think I know what I'm supposed to be doing here. The second time was me trying to see if I could do the not catching thing. And the bar barely moved. So does that mean I'm probably using my arms mostly still?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/acrzt7tp9x6o6mc/2013-03-14 07.39.12.mov0 -
I told you I'd reply at some point!
The ones you catch actually look pretty decent for high hang power cleans. It looks like you could clean way more weight.
I would keep up what you're doing, and get stronger.
I would also work on catching the bar lower, the easy way to do this is put more weight on the bar, so you HAVE to catch it lower, as you can't pull it so high. You might find the speed is lacking initially, so throw in some drop cleans too. That is basically grab the bar in a clean grip, and stand up on your toes, like you've just fully extended. From this static position, drop and pull yourself under the bar.
Start off with an empty bar, and then add weight depending on how easy it is, but keep in mind it's about speed, not the weight. On a full clean after you've pulled it, the bar is going to be weightless for that fraction of a second, thats when you need to be quick pulling yourself from full extension to squatting under the bar.
Oleg Perepetchenov is a good example of this, look how little he actually moves the bar when he pulls. He puts up awesome weights, because he is ridiculously quick. Check out the video, the bar barely goes above the chalk bowl.
http://youtu.be/P9zaajrJpLI0 -
Thanks Dan! I think drop cleans will help a lot, I'll be giving that a try this week. Maybe today, depending on how much time I have at the gym after I finally get off my *kitten*.
That clean video is AMAZING. I like it. A lot!
I'll let you know how this week's training goes!0 -
To put that in perspective - http://youtu.be/Nj8UF0j2kYM?t=9s
Also check out the noise of the female lifter (can't think of her name off the top of my head) before Oleg, that can only help!0 -
It's weird that you have a fetish for that noise, but I guess with all the help, I owe you, so... I'll feed your fetish.0
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I DID MY HOMEWORK! I think I'm getting an F though.
Attempted the drop cleans. In looking, it looks like I'm still lifting the bar, but this was less like a catch + front squat?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/irzvzw8jzj8u6x1/2013-04-14 14.45.01.mov
Went heavier to see if I would drop more, and I think my form got ****tier.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6x8ncvgverysfad/2013-04-14 14.49.03.mov
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwy5ep520xmh2lx/2013-04-14 14.50.34.mov
I was super frustrated today. Just everything felt ****ty. And my shoulders got so sore so fast. Probably because I'm doing it wrong. It frustrates me.
Grr. Falling on my *kitten* was the highlight of the day!0 -
Ok, so the good news, although the weight in the first video is wayyyyy too light, the pull actually looks alright, just need to be less gentle and more aggressive really. Be really aggressive with the pull, then don't wait to squat, just do it ASAP. It might even feel like you're squatting in mid air, and then land in a squat position. That will be fine.
In the second 2 videos, you start from a horrible position, so it's all doomed from the beginning. If you get in the right position, you'll end up doing what you do in the first video at that point, but with momentum on the bar and a heavier weight, and all will be good. I've posted about this on your status, so won't repeat myself.
It's a frustrating sport, patience and determination are essential, except during the actual lift when you need to be a raging bull!0 -
lol my shoulders kill me when I do the heavier weights, even though I'm almost hitting myself in the face with every rep. Why is that? I'll try making adjustments this week and see if I get less comical. Ideally staying on my feet.0
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No good view at this gym.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o3jvgc0pyl8rqn/2013-05-12 16.17.46.mov
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhsfinhzu04y21a/2013-05-12 16.20.48.mov
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwkokbr6q9ht1oe/2013-05-12 16.23.04.mov -> tried to just practice catching
Felt kinda ****ty today. Also, is this proper use of the board?0