I checked out after this BS

Sherrie: Let men initially travel to you; don’t split the check; and finally, don’t talk too much in the first few weeks of dating. Why? It’s because men and women are biologically different from each other. Men love a challenge, and they like women who are busy having a life of their own and who don’t make everything about them in the early stages of dating.

Those women don't seem to be relevant to my age group, and if they're still single and worrying about rules and games at that age, you'll excuse me if I pass.

P.S. I'm not saying older women don't know what they're talking about. I'm saying that if they're still writing books about being single since the 90's I'm going to take their advice with a grain of salt. On the flip side, if they ARE married, one should hope they're not still updating their dating prowess while targeting a younger generation.

I have read their original book, and it is definitely dated, so I can understand why they released a new version. I just don't like how they seem to insist that the goal of finding a man and getting married is so that you won't face the social trauma of not having someone to send you flowers on your birthday. It's not about being happy and choosing to be with someone you love deeply and want to spend the rest of your life with ... it's just about not being the pathetic, lonely spinster everyone whispers about.

While I don't believe in playing games (like pretending to be busy when you're really not or choosing not to return his calls because you want him to think you just have too much going on), I do think their basic message about retaining a bit of mystery and letting things unfold a bit at a time is true. At least, it has proven to be true for me.

When I was in college, I was all about the all-night chats and getting to know each other on a very deep level right away. It worked great. As an adult, it really hasn't. The last time I did that with a guy, it was fireworks for about 6 weeks, and then it died a slow, painful death. The guy I'm seeing/talking to now, totally different scenario. I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

I have read their original book, and it is definitely dated, so I can understand why they released a new version. I just don't like how they seem to insist that the goal of finding a man and getting married is so that you won't face the social trauma of not having someone to send you flowers on your birthday. It's not about being happy and choosing to be with someone you love deeply and want to spend the rest of your life with ... it's just about not being the pathetic, lonely spinster everyone whispers about.

While I don't believe in playing games (like pretending to be busy when you're really not or choosing not to return his calls because you want him to think you just have too much going on), I do think their basic message about retaining a bit of mystery and letting things unfold a bit at a time is true. At least, it has proven to be true for me.

When I was in college, I was all about the all-night chats and getting to know each other on a very deep level right away. It worked great. As an adult, it really hasn't. The last time I did that with a guy, it was fireworks for about 6 weeks, and then it died a slow, painful death. The guy I'm seeing/talking to now, totally different scenario. I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

Completely agree! For the first time I have let things unfold naturally and I'm reaping the benefits with my bf. I used to get caught up in my emotions, the high, the intoxication of newness and it'd die soon. With my current fella, we've been dating 4 months now (omg!) and each month has gotten more exciting than the last for both of us vs getting less exciting.

I think the not talking too much is good. On the other hand, I'm a chatterbox. I'm not a quiet woman. But I have kept my mystery and I can tell when we do have deeper conversations he actually listens because he cares about me.

I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

What I believe deep down is that modern successful relationships happen when the trajectories of two independent individuals cross.

It might not have been true in the past, but I think these days with empowered women and the incredible social reach we have (social networks, dating websites,...) which affects our dating pool and relationships in genera, as well as incredibly busier lifestyles, I don't really believe in the type of fusional relationships the previous generations had (for example).
It used to be the norm back then, but I don't think it would be possible these days with the same level of success.
People are just less... naive. The world is a smaller place.

I quite like this. For me, it isn't hard to pretend to be busy -- I am busy. I don't want to be all wrapped up in somebody else's world, and frankly I get bored when a guy wants to be all wrapped up in mine. I think some of the best couples are the ones who give each other space and time to miss the other. Really, how much is there to talk about when the only person you spend time with is your so?

Edit: Typing too fast on my phone!

Completely agree! For the first time I have let things unfold naturally and I'm reaping the benefits with my bf. I used to get caught up in my emotions, the high, the intoxication of newness and it'd die soon. With my current fella, we've been dating 4 months now (omg!) and each month has gotten more exciting than the last for both of us vs getting less exciting.

Congrats, that is awesome.
I too, am trying to do the 'go with the flow' but sometimes I find myself getting caught up in the men and what they 'present' with...soemtimes it's taking a step back to calm your emotions!

What I believe deep down is that modern successful relationships happen when the trajectories of two independent individuals cross.

I agree.. I really believe it is finding that perfect balance!

I actually just read the article, and I agree with most of what it has to say.
I didn't find this read to be alot of 'game playing' I think this is still natural behavior for women with lives of their own... I think maybe to a needy/insecure woman she would need to treat it like a game until it was natural to her.

I do alot of this stuff - I never initiate a text with a man, but I will respond to his. If I don't hear for 4 hours, 1 day, 2 days, I won't engage him. Unless of course it was an established relationship and weird.

I also have a set schedule, so I would turn a man down becuase I have stuff going on. I don't have to do it as a 'game' I do it becuase I have priorities (my kids, my friends, my gym workouts lol)

So I read this and I think to myself, I do this all already, but I am still struggling - so like they said, Mr Right still isn't there.
My problems lie more in, maintaing the mystery, chatting too much on occasion, etc. Also, due to my bad ex past trusting that all men aren't the same and to stop judging them so quickly!!!

I didn't find this read to be alot of 'game playing' I think this is still natural behavior for women with lives of their own... I think maybe to a needy/insecure woman she would need to treat it like a game until it was natural to her.

Except this isn't about being busy and developing yourself. It's about pretending to do such things until you snag a man because it's more important to have someone than be single. They don't say "Hey, maybe reflect on why you are texting him seven times in a row." they're just saying "Don't because you want to be mysterious!!". It's not about personal development, it's about pretending following the rules of a game until you "win".

I DO have a lot going on and I'm not afraid to tell someone I'm too busy. But I'm also not afraid to initiate a conversation, or go up to a guy and tell him I like him and we should go on a date. These things work for me. So yeah, it feels a bit contrived and silly to have someone draw up a manual on "how it's done" when it's really about selling books to saps who need more therapy than directions.

I'm not saying these tactics don't work, I'm saying long term unless you do what is natural and healthy FOR YOU and not what someone else says should be "normal" then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Sorry Kit, I missed the part on needing to be with a man becuase you shouldn't be single.... I don't agree with that in the slightest.
I would much rather be single, than be miserable...been there, done that!

And I will also agree with ''Hey, maybe reflect on why you are texting him seven times in a row." I guess when I think about your comment, and put it into perspective in MY Life... I have made the personal development and dove deep into what went wrong in my past, why I was needy/insecure, why I was a doormat and I have worked hard to change myself. So maybe that is why I don't see it as a 'game' but more as a natural thing for me.

I am not saying what they are saying is the be all, end all.. I am agreeing that alot of what they say is accurate, and I agree becuase it is what comes natural to me. Again, I don't agree with it all. Trust me, you know some of my stories, and I have gotten to the point where I was like 'WTH do I do now?? I have my internal instincts, and I have the book - who do I follow?'' In the end I follow myself. You also need to do what is best for you, and as you said - maybe we should work on ourselves from the inside out, not just follow some 'rules' in a book.

I'd like to think I changed myself.... Well I know I have, and I am proud of that.

The Rules were my Bible when I was in my early 20s, and while there is definitely some stupid advice in there, it's overall message is excellent. I never viewed it as "playing games" so much as "get a life." A lot of what they say revolves around making sure you are busy with your own interests and life so you aren't sitting around wondering why he isn't calling and depending on him to be your new best girlfriend, being tempted to call him too much, sleeping with him before you are ready to handle the result, and being too needy or desperate early on in a relationship. If you focus on the bigger picture rather than some of the sillier things they say, it's a great read, and I found a lot of it to be very true, especially the maintaining your mystery advice. I think it's great that they released an updated version.

I have the opposite opinion of the original book. I think there are a few pieces of great advice scattered here and there, but for the most part, it encourages women to orchestrate this grand deception of being nearly impossible to win over because how will you know that a man truly loves you if you don't practically force him to surrender his manhood to get your attention?

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

I have ignored texts before but only because I was annoyed by them, not because I was trying to pretend I was busy. This guy (who I was actually very interested in) called me from a new number one night, and I didn't answer because I didn't recognize the number. He didn't leave a voicemail but instead proceeded to text me 6 times over the next 2 hours, asking why I wasn't responding to him. He finally called and left a voicemail letting me know who it was, which he should've done in the first place. I called him back the next day.

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

funny that you say this because guys play their own games too. the last guy I was seeing, I went in with an open mind, no games.
at the beginning I was genuinely busy and couldn't hang out for a couple weeks because my parents were in town then I was travelling a lot for work. he kept pursuing. I started freeing up and we saw each other a bunch of times, each time it was a lot of fun so here I was thinking its going well when....texts started to slow down, making plans slowed down, etc. apparently it was "too much too soon". wth?

I do believe men like to play games and love the thrill of the chasing.

Well the example you gave sounds more like he just wasn't that into you and less like he was playing games, but I can't disagree with your last statement.

All I can say is that with me, it's not necessarily the thrill of the chase. I like the part when I am first getting to know someone, there's a lot to talk about, it's exciting, and I'm always optimistic. Sometimes the spark just dies rather quickly.

I think we have to remember the target audience for this book. It isn't written for confident women who don't allow men to treat them like doormats. It's written for women who let men treat them like doormats, accept the crumbs of a last minute booty call in the hopes it will make the guy like them, chase after men who are not interested in them, act needy and desperate in the early stages of a relationship, and are wondering why they are being pumped and dumped. In theory it's all fine and good to tell people to do what comes naturally and to just be themselves, but for some women that means sleeping with a guy on the first date not because they are ready or want to, but because they are afraid they will lose the guy otherwise.

As far as The Rules, it's been a solid ten years since I read it, so I can't specifically remember everything. I do agree that some of their advice is a little nutty. If you pick and choose certain examples out, then yeah, it can sound a little too "game playing." But the overarching theory behind it is great for women who have difficulty establishing boundaries. They need a specific guideline (i.e. "don't accept last minute dates") to follow as they develop into the more confident self who won't let the man treat them like a doormat. If I recall, the book even says that these aren't written in stone and you have to be flexible, depending on the circumstances.

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

I think this is one of the best rules in the book for the early stages of dating. What is the reasoning behind it? A couple things:

1. You should have a busy, fun life going on, in which you have already made plans for that evening. (In other words, you shouldn't be sitting around hoping a guy calls you up and asks you on a date. You should be able to entertain yourself by now. You should have plans.)
2. You may be second or third choice if you are getting asked out at the last minute, which means he's not that into you.

To me, having plans to stay home dye my hair, do my nails and catch up on my DVR are no less "plans" than going out to meet a friend for drinks. That was my plan for the evening; I go out typically around 4-5 nights a week, so I look forward to my nights at home. So I would easily turn down a date if those were my plans and I wouldn't consider it playing games at all.

But again, you have to consider this rule in context. Is this a first date or a guy you've been out with three times? Are you dying to go out for the evening? Does he typically make plans in advance? How last minute is it? (I don't have a problem with accepting a date for Saturday on Thursday, provided I don't already have plans and want to go out that night.)

The point is more for the doormat girls who are getting calls from guys at 8 p.m. on Saturday night asking "so wanna go out tonight?" to learn to say "NO."

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Well, you aren't a man! LOL. It's 100% been my experience, without exception, that men who are interested will pursue, and will call you more than once even if you don't return their call. Now, I agree with you that it is rude not to return a call, but there have been times when I haven't had a chance to return the call yet and he's called again. So. I don't recall the book saying to never return calls, though. I think the point is just that you should be busy enough that you aren't just sitting by the phone waiting to get a call from him. You should be out doing your own thing.

In my opinion, everyone plays games in the beginning of a relationship to varying degrees because they are trying to put their best foot forward. For example, you don't call or text a new love interest every single time you really want to in the beginning because you don't want to risk looking like a crazy stalker. That's playing games -- after all, you are holding back what comes naturally. I really wouldn't put trying to maintain a little mystery at the top rung of horrible things to do to a new suitor.

I think this is one of the best rules in the book for the early stages of dating. What is the reasoning behind it? A couple things:

1. You should have a busy, fun life going on, in which you have already made plans for that evening. (In other words, you shouldn't be sitting around hoping a guy calls you up and asks you on a date. You should be able to entertain yourself by now. You should have plans.)

2. You may be second or third choice if you are getting asked out at the last minute, which means he's not that into you.

That's precisely my point. The book says to reject the guy even if you DON'T have plans. That's dumb. I understand not going out with a guy who calls you at the last minute, as in literally the same day he wants to go out with you. That IS disrespectful of your time. I do not understand refusing to go out with a guy you like just because he called you 48 hours in advance, rather than 72, and that is what the book suggests you do.

And I agree with Roadie that if you'd truly rather stay home and do your nails or watch your DVR than go on a date, then you're not really looking for romance. Sure, it sounds cool and disaffected to say you consider staying home to be equal to going out in the "having plans" hierarchy, and if you're sick or just really exhausted from a long week at work, maybe it's a legit excuse. If you're not going to be fun and energetic on the date, maybe it's better to postpone it. But let's be honest ... if you're going to turn down an evening with a great guy so you can give yourself a pedicure, that's just a sheer lack of interest. Ranks right up there with the "I'm washing my hair" excuse.

When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

LMAO

:laugh: I can usually do this too...but if I really like someone its harder. :grumble:

And I agree with Roadie that if you'd truly rather stay home and do your nails or watch your DVR than go on a date, then you're not really looking for romance. Sure, it sounds cool and disaffected to say you consider staying home to be equal to going out in the "having plans" hierarchy, and if you're sick or just really exhausted from a long week at work, maybe it's a legit excuse. If you're not going to be fun and energetic on the date, maybe it's better to postpone it. But let's be honest ... if you're going to turn down an evening with a great guy so you can give yourself a pedicure, that's just a sheer lack of interest. Ranks right up there with the "I'm washing my hair" excuse.

Yeah, totally disagree with this. I'm not trying to sound "cool and disaffected" either (LOL, WTF?) Why do you have to be going out somewhere or interacting with other people to legitimately have plans? Why does it make my plans any less important? That makes no sense to me. Why should I cancel my plans for me time because some guy decided at the last minute he wants to go out? Sorry, but I'm not a doormat. My weeks are very busy, and there is only so much time in a week to go out on dates, particularly if a guy is asking last minute (and yeah, a day in advance, and sometimes even two days, is last minute to me). My evenings are usually planned out in advance and I like to have a night or two at home each week to do my own thing. I've turned down plenty of great guys for last minute dates in order to take care of myself, and it definitely wasn't due to lack of interest. They learn pretty quickly with me that my schedule fills up and if they snooze, they lose. And I don't lose any sleep over the guys that don't get it.

But hey, to each their own.

When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

LMAO

:laugh: I can usually do this too...but if I really like someone its harder. :grumble:

I don't care for the chase or games.