Intake Projections - TDEE - so close to "getting this"
justinegrey
Posts: 59 Member
Hi again,
You were kind enough to answer some questions for me here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/902892-conflicting-advice-so-confused and I I went back through your TDEE + macro post in depth to figure mine out.
I even did the manual way twice to determine how I lost the 10 pounds in my first 4 weeks (when my activity level was higher due to a move) and then how I lost 4 pounds in the last 3 weeks (some overlap but no moving):
first 4 weeks - TDEE was over 3000 and I was eating around 1700 calories a day
last 3 weeks - TDEE is around 2193 and I am eating around 1500-1600 calories a day.
As I mentioned, I haven't seen the scale budge in over 1.5 weeks but it could be because I added strength so I'm doing the "newbie gain" thing... no idea.
Anyways, if I use the 2193 TDEE idea,
TDEE - 20% = 1750 ish
TDEE - 30% = 1535 ish
Although I'd like to lose 30-40 pounds, really my main goal is losing as much body fat as possible. I don't know the correct number (Omron says 42% ish but know it's crap) but ideally I'd like to focus on losing as much body fat as possible by May.
One part I noticed from your thread was:
#startquote#
It is important to not to have too large of a deficit to minimize the negative impact of weight loss, that may include risk of loss of LBM (which can be mitigated to a large degree with strength training and adequate protein), hormonal disruption, metabolic adaptation, lower gym performance, possible lack of sufficient nutrients, lack of adherence and generally being grumpy. As noted above however, the ‘best’ deficit for an individual will depend on personal circumstances and also their sensitivity to large deficits. From my personal experience, when I got down to about a 22% BF%, I could not handle deficits of much more than about 10% on average as my gym performance suffers and I tend to whine and pout at that stage. Others may be perfectly OK on a 20% cut at that BF%.
#endquote#
I had 2 questions:
#1 - If I'm doing strength training 3x a week, plus 2 high cardio days and 2 rest/stretch/walking days, would I be okay to attempt 30% to lose as much BF as possible by may... or will 20% be just as effective?
#2 - Before attempting the TDEE method, I didn't feel hungry at all at 1350 + exercise calories (granted I was exercising from 200-900 calories a day and eating 75% back). But now that I'm eating a set "1600" a day, I'm feeling hungrier and especially on lifting days I'm totally ravenous. Almost like I'm being deprived.. is that normal or is it in my head? I do like that I can plan meals better now that I have set calories a day.
Thanks again, sorry for all the questions. BTW I did start stronglifts 5x5 today (previously doing an HIRT program but so hard to sustain without a PT with me) and I felt amazing afterward.. floating on air and giddy.. although the weights I can handle are still low right now haha.
You were kind enough to answer some questions for me here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/902892-conflicting-advice-so-confused and I I went back through your TDEE + macro post in depth to figure mine out.
I even did the manual way twice to determine how I lost the 10 pounds in my first 4 weeks (when my activity level was higher due to a move) and then how I lost 4 pounds in the last 3 weeks (some overlap but no moving):
first 4 weeks - TDEE was over 3000 and I was eating around 1700 calories a day
last 3 weeks - TDEE is around 2193 and I am eating around 1500-1600 calories a day.
As I mentioned, I haven't seen the scale budge in over 1.5 weeks but it could be because I added strength so I'm doing the "newbie gain" thing... no idea.
Anyways, if I use the 2193 TDEE idea,
TDEE - 20% = 1750 ish
TDEE - 30% = 1535 ish
Although I'd like to lose 30-40 pounds, really my main goal is losing as much body fat as possible. I don't know the correct number (Omron says 42% ish but know it's crap) but ideally I'd like to focus on losing as much body fat as possible by May.
One part I noticed from your thread was:
#startquote#
It is important to not to have too large of a deficit to minimize the negative impact of weight loss, that may include risk of loss of LBM (which can be mitigated to a large degree with strength training and adequate protein), hormonal disruption, metabolic adaptation, lower gym performance, possible lack of sufficient nutrients, lack of adherence and generally being grumpy. As noted above however, the ‘best’ deficit for an individual will depend on personal circumstances and also their sensitivity to large deficits. From my personal experience, when I got down to about a 22% BF%, I could not handle deficits of much more than about 10% on average as my gym performance suffers and I tend to whine and pout at that stage. Others may be perfectly OK on a 20% cut at that BF%.
#endquote#
I had 2 questions:
#1 - If I'm doing strength training 3x a week, plus 2 high cardio days and 2 rest/stretch/walking days, would I be okay to attempt 30% to lose as much BF as possible by may... or will 20% be just as effective?
#2 - Before attempting the TDEE method, I didn't feel hungry at all at 1350 + exercise calories (granted I was exercising from 200-900 calories a day and eating 75% back). But now that I'm eating a set "1600" a day, I'm feeling hungrier and especially on lifting days I'm totally ravenous. Almost like I'm being deprived.. is that normal or is it in my head? I do like that I can plan meals better now that I have set calories a day.
Thanks again, sorry for all the questions. BTW I did start stronglifts 5x5 today (previously doing an HIRT program but so hard to sustain without a PT with me) and I felt amazing afterward.. floating on air and giddy.. although the weights I can handle are still low right now haha.
0
Replies
-
bumping to see responses
0 -
The first couple of weeks of weight loss is not a good indicator as most of it is water weight (on average, about 75% in the first week is) so you need a longer history to use your own data. Also, significant changes in activity, such as adding strength training will also skew the numbers. You do not have enough consistent data to use your own numbers so you will have to use either MFP or an online calculator to estimate.
Strength training will increase water weight as you have glycogen and water in the muscles as they repair.
#1. I would not advise TDEE - 30% - stick with the TDEE - 20%.
#2. You can vary the calories in the week with the TDEE method to eat more on lifting days and less on non-lifting days - just make sure you are at the right calorie level for the week. For example, if you are on 1,600 a day, that is 11,200 calories. You can eat 1,800 on lifting days and 1,450 on non lifting days - it will be the same calories at the end of the week. It is pretty common to get hungrier on lifting days.
I am glad you enjoyed your first day of Stronglifts.0 -
The first couple of weeks of weight loss is not a good indicator as most of it is water weight (on average, about 75% in the first week is) so you need a longer history to use your own data. Also, significant changes in activity, such as adding strength training will also skew the numbers. You do not have enough consistent data to use your own numbers so you will have to use either MFP or an online calculator to estimate.
Strength training will increase water weight as you have glycogen and water in the muscles as they repair.
#1. I would not advise TDEE - 30% - stick with the TDEE - 20%.
#2. You can vary the calories in the week with the TDEE method to eat more on lifting days and less on non-lifting days - just make sure you are at the right calorie level for the week. For example, if you are on 1,600 a day, that is 11,200 calories. You can eat 1,800 on lifting days and 1,450 on non lifting days - it will be the same calories at the end of the week. It is pretty common to get hungrier on lifting days.
I am glad you enjoyed your first day of Stronglifts.
Wow, you are SOOOO damn informative.. I had no idea about all those factors. Thank you so much, and DARN re: my manual calculations. haha guess that spreadsheet i made is going straight to trash
- I will take your TDEE - 20% to heart and follow that, do you think I could still achieve a good fat loss % by may?
- That makes sense re: staggering calories while ensuring I'm sticking to a weekly goal. thank you!!
According to the online calculators you provided in your post, my TDEE is:
exrx - bmr = 1518, tdee = 2427
scooby - bmr = 1518 tdee = 2353 choosing 'moderate exercise'
So if i take the average of the two, and do -20% that's around 1900 calories! big difference... is that too high? Someone who seems popular on the main forums recommended 1600 with limited cardio, so a big jump. I do like cardio though.
Thanks again
Justine0 -
1,900 looks about right. I am 148lb and can lose on that, albeit slower as I do no cardio, am older and a touch lighter (all of which impact TDEE).
There is nothing wrong with 2 days of cardio - just do not do it for too long (no more than an hour).
Be consistent with your weekly calorie intake and your exercise and see how you go over the next 4 weeks. If you get back to us then, we can see if it needs tweaking.0 -
1,900 looks about right. I am 148lb and can lose on that, albeit slower as I do no cardio, am older and a touch lighter (all of which impact TDEE).
There is nothing wrong with 2 days of cardio - just do not do it for too long (no more than an hour).
Be consistent with your weekly calorie intake and your exercise and see how you go over the next 4 weeks. If you get back to us then, we can see if it needs tweaking.
Thank you so much. I still can't believe it re: the intake but I will be diligent and work hard, and report back with progress. Thank you again for all your time.0 -
It's really great that you're doing all the calculations and trying to eat at TDEE-20% and do strength training and you will lose a lot of inches and bf% by may I'm sure, I did in my first 3 months of lifting heavy and eating more and I think that's a pretty common experience so I'm sure you will too if you keep it up. Make sure to eat high protein, at least 30% of your calories.
My reason for posting is to mention that all the calculators in the world are not going to give you the exact number for your body. The calculators are equations based on averages of many people, and can only give a best estimate. So you will have to try a certain calorie level and see how it works for you and give it a couple months. If things aren't going how you want, then try eating a little more or a little less based on if you're hungry or whatever. You have to do what's best for your body. Just give it a try and go from there.0 -
It's really great that you're doing all the calculations and trying to eat at TDEE-20% and do strength training and you will lose a lot of inches and bf% by may I'm sure, I did in my first 3 months of lifting heavy and eating more and I think that's a pretty common experience so I'm sure you will too if you keep it up. Make sure to eat high protein, at least 30% of your calories.
My reason for posting is to mention that all the calculators in the world are not going to give you the exact number for your body. The calculators are equations based on averages of many people, and can only give a best estimate. So you will have to try a certain calorie level and see how it works for you and give it a couple months. If things aren't going how you want, then try eating a little more or a little less based on if you're hungry or whatever. You have to do what's best for your body. Just give it a try and go from there.
You are very right about the fact that the calculators are just estimates which is why your own results are usually better to use when applicable.
One point to clarify though - protein intake should be based on grams and not percentages. It goes into more detail about setting macros here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets0 -
Hi guys!
Just wanted to let you know that it's been almost 4 full weeks since I took your advice to up by calories (didn't go quite as high to 1900 cals a day, did about 1600-1700 cals a day) and am happy to report I've actually lost another 5 pounds in the past month, plus have gone down considerably with body fat (based on the crappy scale which I know isn't giving me the right number, but for the purpose of my work competition, I've gone down 5% (43-38%) and am 1 month away from the end. And am still winning!).
I was wondering if I should do a follow-up since I've lost weight/made progress or just keep going?
New goals: I care less about the # now (ideally being in the 130-149 range), I just want to move into a size 6 (currently a tight 10 from 14-16!), and concentrate fully on weight lifting - I want to lift heavy (my heaviest right now is deadlift = 60 pounds, chest = 40, squat = 30 lbs haha so a long way to go).
Curious if I should/could up my calories to the 1900 we talked about, or keep going with 1600-1700 until the comp is over at least. It's a pure BF competition, losing weight is not at all required, . Wondering if I should still concentrate on losing weight + BF, rather than just BF?
SW - 171.6
Weight when you helped me 1 month ago - 160ish
CW - I'm down to 153 pounds now!
Thanks so much again!
Justine0 -
Really great news re the weight loss.
When is the end of the comp?0 -
It finishes mid-April (so about 3 weeks from now, 1 weigh-in on April 1, 2, 3 and the last weigh-in on April 15, 16, 17). While I want to win, this is absolutely a long-term lifestyle change for me, after 10 weeks, I'm the happiest I've ever been and can't wait to see what my progress will be in 2 months, 5 months, 9 months ++ from now 0
-
While I am not a fan of competition based deadlines as it can lead to less than ideal actions, you are going about this in a sensible way and your results are actually very reasonable. As such, I would keep doing what you are doing for another 4 weeks. After that, we can reassess.
Could you follow up with us at that point, or earlier if you have any questions or concerns.0 -
While I am not a fan of competition based deadlines as it can lead to less than ideal actions, you are going about this in a sensible way and your results are actually very reasonable. As such, I would keep doing what you are doing for another 4 weeks. After that, we can reassess.
Could you follow up with us at that point, or earlier if you have any questions or concerns.
thanks so much guys, yes, I totally understand what you're saying re: competitions, and totally in this for the long haul once it's done. I will follow up in 4 weeks, thanks for being there!0 -
Locking temporarily so we can keep track of active threads better. Please PM myself or SideSteel when you wish to follow up or if you have any questions in the interim.0
-
Unlocking at OP's request.0
-
Thanks for reopening the thread Sara!
I am happy to report that I've won the work "Biggest Loser" competition - thanks to you and Sidesteel's advice! I lost 9% body fat and 25 pounds in 3 months!
Now, I'm interested in getting the proper calorie recommendations based on my last stretch:
- Lose inches (by lowering body fat (the bad scale says 37% so ideally at least another 5-10% considering it may be off by a lot (I don't think mine is that high))
- Lose another 12 pounds (currently 147, would like to get to 135)
- Get stronger! I'm doing stronglifts 3x a week (plus running 2-3x a week (for 20-30 minutes) and yoga 1x a week).
Thanks in advance,
Justine0 -
That is excellent news. Congratulations!
I would start upping your calories slowly to get to a better deficit for where you are at the moment. If you can add 100 calories for the next week and sit there for a week and then get back to us. Keep your fat and protein macros the same as far as minimum grams go.
I am assuming here that you lost about 5lb in the 4 weeks. I am also assuming that energy levels, motivation and adherence is still high. Could you confirm.0 -
Just checking in to see how you are doing.
0 -
Locking so we can keep track of active threads. If you wish for the thread to be unlocked so you can respond, please feel free to PM either myself or SideSteel, including a link to this thread and we will unlock it so you can.0
-
Unlocked at OPs request0
-
Hi everyone,
It's been quite a while since I looked at my intake and was hoping for some help. Over the past couple months, I lessened up on my intensity with both food and exercising and didn't gain any weight.
But last week, I joined Crossfit and am going 5 days a week and next week will be adding in running 2x and yoga 1x weekly. At the same time, I also changed some of my eating habits by doing less grains (paleo-ISH) and trying to hit 100 grams of protein a day again. I did still eat out with co-workers last week and enjoyed a little too much at a BBQ yesterday, but tried to keep my weekly average at around 1900 calories per day (a little more some, a little less others).
The problem is - I'm not sure what my intake should be for my goals and am definitely feeling really hungry (but that could be the crossfit/in my head).
Stats:
- 27 years old (turning 28)
- 145 ish pounds
- according to a crappy Omron scale - 36% body fat
- I'm a size 10 in pants (Medium shirts) and have been since April.
I've lost 25ish pounds since I began in January and am getting to the home stretch.
Goals: Get to a size 6 (don't care what the weight # is but would love to see something in the 130's).
Let me know if you think 1900 is good enough, or if I should go higher/lower. Thanks in advance
Justine0 -
I would stick with the advice that we originally gave you. Your intake has been up a bit since your last response to us and you activity looks to be down, so effectively you have narrowed the gap and appear to be at maintenance.
As you are starting crossfit, your activity will change. So, try to stick with the original advice, log your food accurately and get back to us in 2 weeks.
Could you make sure you follow up with us this time as it makes it easier to give advice going forward..0 -
Thanks so much Sara. I will indeed follow up so will take 2 full weeks from now before I report back (3 weeks total will have passed since I started crossfit/started eating a bit better and at around 1900 calories).0
-
Locking this one so we can keep track of active threads. Please PM me or SideSteel when you are ready to update us or if you want to ask anymore questions and we will unlock so you can. Please include a link to the thread in the PM.0
-
Unlocked at OPs request.0
-
Hey guys, reporting back.
Here is my info for the last 4 weeks (from July 1st to yesterday). For context: Up until July 1st I had decreased my activity level and had increased eating and was sitting at around 144-146 pounds for at least a month+.
---> On July 1st - I weighed 144 pounds, current weight 141.2 (last taken about 5 days ago, i went away for 2 days and ate a lot of junk so probably a bit higher now.
---> Calorie Intake:
Week 1 - Calorie intake per day average - 1787/ day
Week 2 - Calorie intake per day average - 1902/ day
Week 3 - Calorie intake per day average - 1760/ day
week 4 - calorie intake per day average - 1960/ day
---> Activity level for past 4 weeks has been (weekly) crossfit 4-5 times, plus a few hours of walking and/or 1 hour of yoga. The crossfit WODs only last around 15-30 minutes but I push myself during that time and also am there for at least 15-30 more stretching and doing warmup.
---> weight loss during these 4 weeks:
Weight 07/24/13 141.2 lbs
Weight 07/18/13 142.6 lbs
Weight 07/10/13 143 lbs
---> Body fat percentage (according to Omron scale) - 34% (down 2% from 4 weeks ago)
---> I feel a lot stronger too and have gone up in my lifts (85--> 115# deadlift, 40 --> 75 squat etc.)0 -
What a great report!0
-
That is excellent. Thank you for the update.
I would suggest keeping at the average intake you are on. You seem like you feel good and I assume adherence is not an issue. You may end up having to cut a little more as you et leaner and your TDEE decreases as a results, but lets cross that bridge when we have to.0 -
Thanks so much for the response Sara. To be honest, I do struggle with the calorie amount - but I've been drinking too many calories in lattes so If i lessen those I would feel more satisfied since I can replace the calories with more satisfying foods. I just had one more question - about macros:
I still go over quite a bit on sugar (cutting the lattes will help but coconut ice cream during the summer continues to be a must for me) and I'm also not super low on carbs most days (but trying to ensure they come from mostly good things). Do you think that with my goals right now (cut body fat, retain muscle, get stronger), I need to be more careful with macros or is it okay to hit my protein goal for the day and then let the rest fall where they may? Thanks again!
Oh sorry - edited to add one more question. When would you recommend bulking for me? I read body fat should be low 20's but I'm still probably 33-36 but am almost at goal weight and don't care to be a bone rack (ie will take beyonce over Miley Cyrus any day). And then I'm confused about eating at Maintence - does that mean I won't lose weight or body fat or both?is it possible to eat at maintenance and still lose fat?. I asked this somewhere else and people started mentioning "body recomp" and how hard it was etc so just was hoping for clarity. Thans again!0 -
Thanks so much for the response Sara. To be honest, I do struggle with the calorie amount - but I've been drinking too many calories in lattes so If i lessen those I would feel more satisfied since I can replace the calories with more satisfying foods. I just had one more question - about macros:
I still go over quite a bit on sugar (cutting the lattes will help but coconut ice cream during the summer continues to be a must for me) and I'm also not super low on carbs most days (but trying to ensure they come from mostly good things). Do you think that with my goals right now (cut body fat, retain muscle, get stronger), I need to be more careful with macros or is it okay to hit my protein goal for the day and then let the rest fall where they may? Thanks again!
Protein is the most important one to hit, however, you should not be going too low on fats either. It really depends on how much you are missing it by. That being said, fats can be considered as more of a weekly average goal. If it makes it easier, try to get your fats to average to the recommended intake over the week rather than hitting it daily.Oh sorry - edited to add one more question. When would you recommend bulking for me? I read body fat should be low 20's but I'm still probably 33-36 but am almost at goal weight and don't care to be a bone rack (ie will take beyonce over Miley Cyrus any day). And then I'm confused about eating at Maintence - does that mean I won't lose weight or body fat or both?is it possible to eat at maintenance and still lose fat?. I asked this somewhere else and people started mentioning "body recomp" and how hard it was etc so just was hoping for clarity. Thans again!
I would not recommend bulking at that body fat %. Generally, you should be nearer to 20% unless you have very low LBM, when bulking at a slightly higher BF% may make sense. However, if you BF% is above 30%, then you should lower it first. If you want a more specific recommendation, then you can post pics in the BF% assessment thread.
Ultimately, there are two questions. What would you be trying to achieve and do you still have a more than insignificant amount of fat you wish to lose.0 -
Hey sara
Thanks so much for the response! I'm usually over on fats as I don't get a lot of u protein from meat (dairy, nuts, legumes). To answer your other questions - yes I have a significant amount of body fat I want to lose, but I want to get stronger (main goal). Hope that helps!
Thanks again
Justine0
This discussion has been closed.