Second wind - how does that work?
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sijomial
Posts: 19,811 Member
I know most people in this group are strength training focussed but here's a cardio question for a change which I hope some of the more learned people on here might be able to answer!
Background.
I’m training for a long cycle ride in the summer but the cold weather is stopping me cycling outdoors so I’m doing a lot of training on a Spinning cycle including long/intense sessions of up to two hours.
I use my HRM to enable me to train in specific heart rate zones, moderating my heart rate within a very small tolerance using cadence and resistance. Within ten minutes only tiny adjustments are required.
Question.
Last few long sessions I’ve noticed after about 40 to 50 minutes I seem to suddenly get a “second wind”. From feeling a steady effort I start to feel it has become “easy” and my heart rate also drops significantly (5%). To get back to my earlier heart rate I either have to dial in more resistance or speed.
So what is happening to cause this change? How does my body suddenly become apparently more efficient by letting me cycle harder/faster for the same heart rate?
It’s very welcome of course but I’d love to understand the physiology behind it – would be even better if I could provoke or prolong the effect!
Background.
I’m training for a long cycle ride in the summer but the cold weather is stopping me cycling outdoors so I’m doing a lot of training on a Spinning cycle including long/intense sessions of up to two hours.
I use my HRM to enable me to train in specific heart rate zones, moderating my heart rate within a very small tolerance using cadence and resistance. Within ten minutes only tiny adjustments are required.
Question.
Last few long sessions I’ve noticed after about 40 to 50 minutes I seem to suddenly get a “second wind”. From feeling a steady effort I start to feel it has become “easy” and my heart rate also drops significantly (5%). To get back to my earlier heart rate I either have to dial in more resistance or speed.
So what is happening to cause this change? How does my body suddenly become apparently more efficient by letting me cycle harder/faster for the same heart rate?
It’s very welcome of course but I’d love to understand the physiology behind it – would be even better if I could provoke or prolong the effect!
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Replies
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I do strength training and very little cardio, but I will bump this for you in the hope that you get some answers :drinker:0
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I do strength training and very little cardio, but I will bump this for you in the hope that you get some answers :drinker:
Ditto0 -
I'd answer this, but I can't.0
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Is it an endorphin or some kind of hormonal/chemical response?0
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Is it an endorphin or some kind of hormonal/chemical response?
That sounds like it makes sense...but I have no real idea.0 -
That's a good question. I know the first ten or so minutes of the run are usually the hardest. I have always just assumed it had to do with three things: my muscles being warm and my heart pumping blood efficiently, Seratonin production and other "feel good" changes in brain chemistry, and just getting in a zone mentally:)0
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Total guess here - I would guess adrenaline (epinephrine). Similar to how after a long day of work, you're exhausted. Then you leave the office and you're excited to get home and you get a "burst" of energy for no reason.0
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I'm honestly not sure but I notice it when running or playing soccer. I typically feel better in the second half.0
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Couldn't say for sure, but this is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_wind0
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Couldn't say for sure, but this is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_wind
Interesting.
The hypothesis about lactic acid and oxygen balance sounds plausible for me, I have very good lung capacity but tend to be a "chest breather" rather than breathe from the diaphragm. So possibly the change I'm seeing is me starting to breathe more efficiently after a period of time.
Thanks to everyone for their responses.0 -
Here's my theory, so endorphins are released about after about 30-40 minutes of exercise. Also, epinephrine (adrenaline) is released when the body is feeling 'stressed'. Working out for long periods does produce stress, but the good kind. So!
epinephrine is released in response to hypoglycemia, stress, and other factors. Its potent stimulator of the sympathetic nervous system, and a powerful vasopressor, increasing blood pressure, stimulating the heart muscle, accelerating the heart rate, and increasing cardiac output. (This doesn't explain reduced heart rate) BUT in association with;
Endorphins, which are polypeptides produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus and they resemble the opiates in their abilities to produce analgesia and a sense of well-being. In other words, they might work as "natural pain killers." So the endorphin 'high' could potentially be at work.
However, I think what is happening is a reduced heart rate due to fatigue which then your body responds to with adrenaline and you get the second wind surge.
Again, just my theory. But I would definitely say it's a hormonal output thing. You would probably have to have testing to actually know for sure.0 -
As a runner/cyclist I'd suggest the following partially from experience, partially from readings. (Big caveat - my comfort level on what follows is close to "just a guess"):
A second wind and runners high might be related but are not the same. Having experienced both, I consider them different physiological mechanisms. Runner's high is certainly the endorphin related and clearly documented event (TUM Munich research 2008).
I tend to associate second wind with "getting the Diesel engine warmed up" but as a separate phenomenon - I am a more efficient runner (HR at pace, comfort level) at 20 minutes into a run/ride. Clearly here, having some sort of warm up process, body temp, breathing, oxygen uptake and transport efficiency is going on. This is not the second wind, but I mention it as I think "warming up" is just as interesting and, I believe, oxygen/co2/lactic acid transport balance achieved; after 20 minutes I struggle less and feel I can run forever (but no "high" state).
Second wind, for me, is that phenomenon at somewhat higher effort, where having exhausted resources, I was able to find new energy if I keep going a little bit. But to talk about it, i think it might be important to consider both bonking (not the English kind) and the various dextrinosis. Second wind seems to occur less when I am fitter.
As a cyclist, I visualize the bonk/will ride as a decision tree - if I've maintained reserves (either by eating (carbs) during the ride or prior days carb loading or just conditioning) in glycogen I can continue for long rides and not bonk out. Low glycogen and you can find me sky gazing on the grass, sucking a gel or banana and a total DNF. The decision: enough glucose? Yes/no - is really what clearly drives the "will you bonk?" question. It's a glucose availability question.
Dextrinosis are a group of metabolic diseases where glycogen is poorly stored or made. By looking at these diseases we understand better normal function - glycogen storage occurs not only in the muscle but the liver is an important regulating reserve of about 10% but much higher in bioavailability. Glycogen availability isn't linear - you use what is in the muscles and then it's over - transport occurs across all muscles and the liver and is mediated by glucose plasma levels as well as hormones.
In short, I thnk that second wind is more related to metabolic balancing and the oxygen debt (the lactic acid argument), a sort of reverse of bonking, that tends to also disappear with training. It might be somewhat hormone mediated as these affect metabolic processes but it is, IMHO, *not* the same as a runner's high.0 -
Really good question. I get the same whenever I do extended cardio (>45 mins).0
