stronglifts, OHP and not increasing weights
taunto
Posts: 6,420 Member
Been doing stronglifts. I dig it (to my surprise) and so far, everything is going as smooth as expected from a noob like me.
But I am coming to a plateau. OHP are my bane. I can DL 120+ kg (264+ lb) 1RM np and I'm at 70 kg squats (5 sets) and it all feels like how it should be. Challenging yet not something that might kill me. But OHP are an entire different game for me. I can barely do 40 kg's (88 lbs)5 set. I feel like a little girl when I do them because they make me feel so weak. I wanna hurl up and cry thinking that Justin Bieber will never know I exist. I want to start crying randomly and for no reasons and tell my parents "I hate you". You get the picture.
So, I need a suggestion. Should I focus on getting comfortable with the 40 kg since thats the weight that after a LOT of struggle I can lift or should I deload after increasing weights as planned in the program and failing?
But I am coming to a plateau. OHP are my bane. I can DL 120+ kg (264+ lb) 1RM np and I'm at 70 kg squats (5 sets) and it all feels like how it should be. Challenging yet not something that might kill me. But OHP are an entire different game for me. I can barely do 40 kg's (88 lbs)5 set. I feel like a little girl when I do them because they make me feel so weak. I wanna hurl up and cry thinking that Justin Bieber will never know I exist. I want to start crying randomly and for no reasons and tell my parents "I hate you". You get the picture.
So, I need a suggestion. Should I focus on getting comfortable with the 40 kg since thats the weight that after a LOT of struggle I can lift or should I deload after increasing weights as planned in the program and failing?
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Replies
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OHP is a b!itch to increase. It's driving me batsh!t at the moment as well.
Are you struggling on all sets or just the last couple?0 -
OHP is a b!itch to increase. It's driving me batsh!t at the moment as well.
Are you struggling on all sets or just the last couple?
Well, the first 3 sets are a struggle but I can do them with a decent amount of rest in between. The last 2 sets are a nightmare. The time before last I couldn't even do more than 3 sets though I blame that on poor eating that day. Last time I did fine but yeah, the last 2 rounds are becoming a nightmare. Oddly though, its the second last thats the toughest. The last round is tough too but not as bad at the second last0 -
Starting Strength has 3x5 rather than 5x5 from Day 1, and Mehdi recommends dropping to 3x5 when you've stalled out and deloaded three times on the same weight. So, maybe drop to 3x5? There comes a point where you simply cannot lift the weight 25 times.
Check protein, calories, sleep etc too - you may not be able to do 5x5 on your current regime, but by changing macros/eating more/sleeping more you may find you can make more gains on 5x5.0 -
I have not done SL, so please take this in that context. I would actually try to 'eek out' your 5 x 5 longer as you are pretty early on and OHPs are the ones that cause the most challenge to increase anyway. I would sit at the same weight using 5 x 5 for a couple of sessions and possibly throw in an assistance lift such as lateral DB raises after. Make sure you have your form down also. After a couple of sessions, then up to the next weight. If you are still having problems and find you cannot get the 5 x 5 for 3 sessions in a row, then go the 3 x 5 route.0
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I have not done SL, so please take this in that context. I would actually try to 'eek out' your 5 x 5 longer as you are pretty early on and OHPs are the ones that cause the most challenge to increase anyway. I would sit at the same weight using 5 x 5 for a couple of sessions and possibly throw in an assistance lift such as lateral DB raises after. Make sure you have your form down also. After a couple of sessions, then up to the next weight. If you are still having problems and find you cannot get the 5 x 5 for 3 sessions in a row, then go the 3 x 5 route.
Thanks. I was thinking of doing the same (minus the 3x5. Didn't crossed my mind)0 -
OHP sux.
Last week I went back and re-read Rippetoe's form instructions in Starting Strength ($10 for Kindle version) and picked up a slew of pointers that I had missed the first time that I read it. so I've done OHP twice since then, concentrating on form, and that has helped a LOT. Not that I've increased my weight 20% or anything, but I can tell that concentrating on form has helped a lot.
Deloading will help you concentrate on form if that is the problem.0 -
It's just a tough lift to get to move.
Are you doing a push press or a strict press?
The two biggest things that helped me were pushing my abs out to stay tight, and trying to keep my lats tight during the movement.0 -
I know my form is far from perfect. Each time I do things I try and improve form of all my lifts. IDK which press it is but I'm basically just following Mehdi. I "think" he's doing strict press
ilovedl: I am actually doing the ab thing on taso's recommendation. I forgot the name but he mentioned to breathe in and hold by breath in via stomach (vs. chest) and then so the lift. It is something new I'm trying but it seems to be helping. Though getting into the habit of doing it will take some time.I will try and work on keeping my lats tight. Haven't really payed attention to it. Thanks for the reminder
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I have not done SL, so please take this in that context. I would actually try to 'eek out' your 5 x 5 longer as you are pretty early on and OHPs are the ones that cause the most challenge to increase anyway. I would sit at the same weight using 5 x 5 for a couple of sessions and possibly throw in an assistance lift such as lateral DB raises after. Make sure you have your form down also. After a couple of sessions, then up to the next weight. If you are still having problems and find you cannot get the 5 x 5 for 3 sessions in a row, then go the 3 x 5 route.
Thanks. I was thinking of doing the same (minus the 3x5. Didn't crossed my mind)
The SL version would be:
Fail 40kgs three times in a row
Deload to 40kgs -10% (so 36kg)
Work back up at your usual increase rate to 40kgs
If you hit it, great, move right on.
If you don't, try 40kg again twice more (this is your second "fail three times")
If you still don't get it, deload 10% and work back up at your usual rate
If you hit 40kg this time or your second attempt, great, move right on.
If you fail 40kgs three times in a row for the third time, switch to 3x5 for that lift only.
Personally, I'm all for adding extra reps (so final set(s) to exhaustion) on my deload+work up phases, and/or accessory lifts. It's how I got from 30lbs to 35lbs on the OHP, but it's not what the program says.0 -
I
this thread.
my shoulders were so weak when i started from all my back problems that it took almost a year for me to get to 45 pounds.
yet i can bench 3x5 @ 95 pounds, after 2 lighter warm up sets...i kind of do a between starting strength and stronglifts when i am on a deficit as the 5x5 sometimes is just too much
I am glad for the advice I have seen here...hopefully I will be able to return to lifting soon and implement the suggestions0 -
I have yet to fail at them except once which I still think was due to very poor diet that day and fatigue. I am just getting at a point where adding more weight will either result in failure or injury.
Mehdi suggests deloading after 3 fails but since there has been only 1 fail and then a success after it (with increased weights) I basically wanted to know if at a stall, deloading is suggested or staying at the same level and working on it is.
So far the suggestions from the sounds of it seems to tell me to keep going at 40 kg for a couple more times and then decrease sets if still unable to increase weight0 -
Try doing one arm DB pressing (strict). Is one arm substantially stronger than the other? Resolving imbalances may help you a bit, but as most people have said, OHP is just a tough lift to move.0
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I agree with the others. I deloaded three times after failing at 85lbs on OHP. I finally conquered that ***** last week. Keep pushing through. It's frustrating but you'll get there eventually, it will be to your benefit to also make sure youre eating at TDEE or a slight surplus if youre expecting to keep moving up in weight.
I also subbed clean & press for OHP for two weeks on my last deload. It allowed me to lift more weight with the help of momentum and seemed to help. I was lifting 95 lb on that, and pushed right through when I went back to 80/85 lbs the following week.
Good luck.0 -
You are gonna get much empathy here, my OHP and bench are my banes. I need/want them to increase but they just won't budge (am stuck at 42.5 kg on OHP and 65 kg on bench)
I got them to budge slightly using madcow (this it outlined somewhere on the net) and then 5/3/1, the deloads and increasing percentages really helped. I am hoping that when I reach maintenance and can use higher calories I can get past the stalls. I do know that when my carb levels are lower my upper body lifts suck *kitten*. So I upped them this week and they bumped up again. *shrug* Sorry for jumping in here Sara and Sidesteel, it seems these lifts are the first to suffer with most of us when lifting heavy. : (0 -
If you haven't actually failed but once I'm inclined to say keep following the program. If it's just a b!tch to get the weight up but you're still moving it then keep rocking on. SL has procedures in it for what to do when you actually fail. If it's just hard that's different. It's sposedta be hard.
I failed on OHP a sh!tload of times. It took me forfckingever to get past 100lbs and movement from there has been pretty slow but it's been moving. Just keep doing it. Maybe on the sets you can't finish do some push presses just to get the weight moving?0 -
I don't have any tips or tricks. Just hard work pays off and you will feel awesome when you hit it.
I use to hate it but now ohp is my favorite exercise, it's the one that has challenged me the most. It took me about a month just to add 2 reps. Beginning of march I was at 205x3. I busted my *kitten* and worked hard and im f****** proud of those 2 reps. I'm so hungry to hit the 2 plate ohp0 -
... I'm so hungry to hit the 2 plate ohp
Jebus! That's frickin awesome. I'm edging toward the 1 plate ohp and will feel like a pimp when I get there.0 -
Not sure if this an option or not, 5 lbs or 2 kg is a lot to increase week to week on OHP. If you can find them you can try 1/2 kg weights on each side so you're not stepping up as much and your shoulders don't have to make as big a jump.
Other than that, keep lifting as hard as you can and you'll get there. :-)0 -
Beginning of march I was at 205x3. I busted my *kitten* and worked hard and im f****** proud of those 2 reps. I'm so hungry to hit the 2 plate ohp
Woot! That is amazing right there!
Damn, maybe I just need to be more determined than I already am...um...cripes?! Yeah I do have my adjustable ankle weights that go up 300g per pouch LOL! Hmmm...0 -
OHP is kicking my *kitten*! I can still only barely do 5x5 with just the bar!0
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Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?0 -
Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets0 -
I found this video: http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/video/platform_learning_to_press_2.0
at a different place when people were talking about their inability to move up in OHP. This form helped me to continue past 65, I think I'm at 90 or 95lbs for my next lift day.
Might want to deload to get the basics of the form down if you aren't doing it this way already, and then move back up. Surprised how I'm not stalling, and how much more of the upperbody gets worked with this method.0 -
Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets
I would suggest increasing rest time just on OHP at least another full minute and see what happens. You also should consider posting a form video to our group in the vid thread.0 -
Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets
I would suggest increasing rest time just on OHP at least another full minute and see what happens.
Even past getting my HR back to normal? I thought we were supposed to get back to it once your HR gets to normal?0 -
Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets
I would suggest increasing rest time just on OHP at least another full minute and see what happens.
Even past getting my HR back to normal? I thought we were supposed to get back to it once your HR gets to normal?
Here is where you're going to get a "my opinion is" answer:
My opinion is that you should lift when you believe you are mentally and physically ready to attempt the next set. This is not exclusively heart rate dependent.
My suggestion is to try adding another minute and see if it makes a difference. If it makes no difference then obviously your prior rest interval was probably reasonable. If you find that it's easier then you may not have been as rested as you thought you were.0 -
Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets
I would suggest increasing rest time just on OHP at least another full minute and see what happens.
Even past getting my HR back to normal? I thought we were supposed to get back to it once your HR gets to normal?
Here is where you're going to get a "my opinion is" answer:
My opinion is that you should lift when you believe you are mentally and physically ready to attempt the next set. This is not exclusively heart rate dependent.
My suggestion is to try adding another minute and see if it makes a difference. If it makes no difference then obviously your prior rest interval was probably reasonable. If you find that it's easier then you may not have been as rested as you thought you were.
For me, HR has little relevance to when my muscles are ready to lift again. I wear my HRM to track stuff like that when I'm lifting but mostly just because I like having the square filled in on my Garmin calendar. It's a lot more relevant when doing more circuit type stuff than straight-up lifitng. Even after deadlifts when my HR shoots way the hell up it comes back down within a few seconds. I'm still waiting 2-3 minutes between sets regardless of HR. I generally start off with 60 to 90 seconds between sets and go up as the sets get tougher. This morning I did 6 sets of 6 OHP. I had one minute between my first three, 90 seconds between three and four, two minutes between four and five, and almost 5 minutes before set 6. Rest makes a HUGE difference.0 -
this may not be the best place to ask, but what are stronglifts?0
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Taunto:
How much rest time are you taking in between OHP sets?
Thank you for reminding me of this. I have increased my rest in between the sets but so far I'm going by how my heart rate feels. My heart rate goes back to normal fairly soon but my muscles are still feeling tired. Should I prolong the rest a bit more? I don't use a watch or anything but I think my rest is about 1-1.5 minutes between sets
I would suggest increasing rest time just on OHP at least another full minute and see what happens.
Even past getting my HR back to normal? I thought we were supposed to get back to it once your HR gets to normal?
Here is where you're going to get a "my opinion is" answer:
My opinion is that you should lift when you believe you are mentally and physically ready to attempt the next set. This is not exclusively heart rate dependent.
My suggestion is to try adding another minute and see if it makes a difference. If it makes no difference then obviously your prior rest interval was probably reasonable. If you find that it's easier then you may not have been as rested as you thought you were.
For me, HR has little relevance to when my muscles are ready to lift again. I wear my HRM to track stuff like that when I'm lifting but mostly just because I like having the square filled in on my Garmin calendar. It's a lot more relevant when doing more circuit type stuff than straight-up lifitng. Even after deadlifts when my HR shoots way the hell up it comes back down within a few seconds. I'm still waiting 2-3 minutes between sets regardless of HR. I generally start off with 60 to 90 seconds between sets and go up as the sets get tougher. This morning I did 6 sets of 6 OHP. I had one minute between my first three, 90 seconds between three and four, two minutes between four and five, and almost 5 minutes before set 6. Rest makes a HUGE difference.
I've never used an HRM to track but rest time for me is significant as well. I will rest upwards of 5 minutes before a 1RM attempt and 2-4 minutes for top sets (5/3/1, last set is heaviest). But for isolation work it's usually 1-2m.0 -
this may not be the best place to ask, but what are stronglifts?
http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/0
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