Ibuprofen usage.
JeffseekingV
Posts: 3,165 Member
Along with light cardio after leg day etc.... I take ibuprofen to help combat soreness. Mostly lower back sorness No more than 2 pills/day. But I'll take then 2-3 days in a row sometimes. The dosages aren't technically enough to risk kidney damage but is this a smart way to combat soreness as a long term thing? I've tried light cardio, protein, supplements etc.. nothing works. When you lift heavy, you get sore. But want to get rid of the soreness asap.
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Bumping to get you some attention.
I can still post it in the main forums if you want.0 -
Would be interesting to see the replies.0
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There is weak evidence that suggests that the usage NSAIDs will blunt protein synthesis. It clearly does so in rats, the human studies have been mixed.
You could try BCAA's and Fish Oil, if you haven't already. Pretty much all weak, anecdotal evidence, but worth a shot.0 -
Taken from old threads. Would love the input
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/
Do not use if trying to build muscle
"A study published in 2001 by exercise physiologist William J. Evans of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and his colleagues showed that both ibuprofen and, to the researchers' surprise, acetaminophen (Tylenol) blocked new muscle synthesis after intense weight training exercise.
Evans' group studied 24 men in their 20s and divided them into three groups -- one that got ibuprofen, one that got acetaminophen and one that got a dummy drug -- after a weight workout of the legs that brought the subject to the point of exhaustion. The researchers also took muscle biopsies -- small samples of muscle tissue -- before and after the exercise, and did numerous other tests.
They found that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress the body's normal response to muscle damage (and thus repair) after exercise."
plus
http://www.kinemed.com/files/Effect_of_Ibuprofen_and.pdf
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"Muscle infammation is essential to eliciting various adaptations within the muscle. No imflammation, no adaptations. Here's some research as I'm sure some people will disagree. I can supply plenty more if needed. It deals with antioxidants, though their anti-inflammatory action can be compared to pain killers.
Radical species in inflammation and overtraining. Can. J. Physiol. Pharmacol. 76(5): 533?538 (1998)
Abstract: Reactive oxygen species can be important in the initiation of exercise-induced muscle damage and in the initiation and propagation of the subsequent acute muscle inflammatory response. Oxygen radicals generated via the neutrophil respiratory burst are vital in clearing away muscle tissue that has been damaged by exercise and they may also be responsible for propagation of further damage. Intervention by antioxidants to limit the postexercise inflammatory response and its potential to impair optimal muscle function are of interest to serious and recreational sports participants. Although antioxidants have the potential to limit muscle oxidative stress during the postexercise period, direct evidence for their role in this is limited. It is likely that short-term training can protect muscle from subsequent exercise-induced damage and inflammation without necessarily improving muscle antioxidant status. Although muscle antioxidant status may be enhanced by longer term training, diet, or antioxidant administration, the significance of antioxidants in limiting muscle damage during the acute inflammatory response needs to be more clearly defined. It may even be counterproductive to limit neutrophil function during the inflammatory response, since this may inhibit subsequent muscle repair."0 -
Hmm... so if I take naproxen for pain in my joints... or for my endo flare-ups... then my muscle might not be able to repair itself correctly?0
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There is weak evidence that suggests that the usage NSAIDs will blunt protein synthesis. It clearly does so in rats, the human studies have been mixed.
You could try BCAA's and Fish Oil, if you haven't already. Pretty much all weak, anecdotal evidence, but worth a shot.
I've tried BCAAs and I didn't notice any significant diff. Also have tried fish oil pills but I don't think I took them long enough0 -
Taken from old threads. Would love the input
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/
Do not use if trying to build muscle
"A study published in 2001 by exercise physiologist William J. Evans of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences and his colleagues showed that both ibuprofen and, to the researchers' surprise, acetaminophen (Tylenol) blocked new muscle synthesis after intense weight training exercise.
Evans' group studied 24 men in their 20s and divided them into three groups -- one that got ibuprofen, one that got acetaminophen and one that got a dummy drug -- after a weight workout of the legs that brought the subject to the point of exhaustion. The researchers also took muscle biopsies -- small samples of muscle tissue -- before and after the exercise, and did numerous other tests.
They found that both ibuprofen and acetaminophen suppress the body's normal response to muscle damage (and thus repair) after exercise."
plus
http://www.kinemed.com/files/Effect_of_Ibuprofen_and.pdf
plus
"Muscle infammation is essential to eliciting various adaptations within the muscle. No imflammation, no adaptations. Here's some research as I'm sure some people will disagree. I can supply plenty more if needed. It deals with antioxidants, though their anti-inflammatory action can be compared to pain killers.
Radical species in inflammation and overtraining. Can. J. Physiol. Pharmacol. 76(5): 533?538 (1998)
Abstract: Reactive oxygen species can be important in the initiation of exercise-induced muscle damage and in the initiation and propagation of the subsequent acute muscle inflammatory response. Oxygen radicals generated via the neutrophil respiratory burst are vital in clearing away muscle tissue that has been damaged by exercise and they may also be responsible for propagation of further damage. Intervention by antioxidants to limit the postexercise inflammatory response and its potential to impair optimal muscle function are of interest to serious and recreational sports participants. Although antioxidants have the potential to limit muscle oxidative stress during the postexercise period, direct evidence for their role in this is limited. It is likely that short-term training can protect muscle from subsequent exercise-induced damage and inflammation without necessarily improving muscle antioxidant status. Although muscle antioxidant status may be enhanced by longer term training, diet, or antioxidant administration, the significance of antioxidants in limiting muscle damage during the acute inflammatory response needs to be more clearly defined. It may even be counterproductive to limit neutrophil function during the inflammatory response, since this may inhibit subsequent muscle repair."
Well, this study says that advil helps build muscle: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3064281/
Like I said, the evidence is mixed. But, if the choice is between taking the NSAIDs and not lifting, then take them. In the meantime, try to figure out a way to do without.0 -
Well, this study says that advil helps build muscle: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3064281/
Like I said, the evidence is mixed. But, if the choice is between taking the NSAIDs and not lifting, then take them. In the meantime, try to figure out a way to do without.
Well what about the anti-inflammatories, I don't take them all the time, but I do take higher than the OTC dosage probably once or twice a week. Is that going to interfere with muscle repair?0 -
I read similar information in "Anatomy for Runners" about NSAIDS slowing muscle repair. I do ice baths a couple days a week: I fill a bathtub hip deep with cold water and then dump a couple pounds of ice in. Ice does not prevent the swelling that your body uses to repair muscle, but it does help to remove the fluid after, thus removing the waste products and reducing the inflammation.
I'm not sure it would work for your lower back - perhaps an ice pack?0 -
I'm a wuss so I don't know if I could do an ice bath.
Massage sounds great. Just no one do it. Wife just rolls her eyes. Agh
for the record, my strength has been steadily increasing (slowly). Have no idea on effect on muscle mass. I'm on a 0.5 lb/week calorie deficit plan.0 -
Well, this study says that advil helps build muscle: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3064281/
Like I said, the evidence is mixed. But, if the choice is between taking the NSAIDs and not lifting, then take them. In the meantime, try to figure out a way to do without.
Well what about the anti-inflammatories, I don't take them all the time, but I do take higher than the OTC dosage probably once or twice a week. Is that going to interfere with muscle repair?
Probably not, more research is needed to say for sure.0 -
interesting read here:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/do_pain_pills_impair_muscle_growth0 -
If you are so sore after leg day that you need painkillers I would take a look at your form.0
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If you are so sore after leg day that you need painkillers I would take a look at your form.
Form is okay. I've posted it before.0 -
thanks for posting this...very interesting, as I take NSAID's regularly for Rheumatoid Arthritis. Always trying to limit use, but not usually successful.0 -
I'm a wuss so I don't know if I could do an ice bath.
Massage sounds great. Just no one do it. Wife just rolls her eyes. Agh
for the record, my strength has been steadily increasing (slowly). Have no idea on effect on muscle mass. I'm on a 0.5 lb/week calorie deficit plan.
I know. They sound completely psychotic. However, they hurt for a fraction of a second. Are tolerable for a few minutes. And feel better than the best massage you've ever had (and I've had some good ones) after.0 -
My understanding from reading on this subject is that the best way to combat soreness is to warm up properly, especially using specific warm-ups (i.e., a lighter version of the whatever lift you are working up to--as opposed to just raising your body temp using cardio). Also, eccentric contractions are more likely to cause DOMS, so if you are doing a lot of "negatives", maybe scale back on those.
Szymanski, D.J. Recommendations for the avoidance of delayed-onset muscle soreness. J. Strength Cond. Res. 23(4): 7-13. 20010 -
Damn. I'm on meloxicam 7.5 mg. 1 a day for 6 weeks, then off for a week and on for another 6 weeks. Unless I go symptom free for 2 weeks then I can stop taking them until I get symptoms again. Or unless I have a major gastrointestinal event
But if I don't get these hip joint issues under control then I can't squat, dead lift, or lunge. blergh.
Here's hoping there's no effect! :drinker:0 -
My understanding from reading on this subject is that the best way to combat soreness is to warm up properly, especially using specific warm-ups (i.e., a lighter version of the whatever lift you are working up to--as opposed to just raising your body temp using cardio). Also, eccentric contractions are more likely to cause DOMS, so if you are doing a lot of "negatives", maybe scale back on those.
Szymanski, D.J. Recommendations for the avoidance of delayed-onset muscle soreness. J. Strength Cond. Res. 23(4): 7-13. 2001
I can second this from experiance. Warming up, and then stretching (in that order), have always seemed to help me avoid soreness. Give things a good long stretch, 15-30 seconds without "boucing".
It also goes away the more you do the exercise, and so for those exercises that make me sore, I've slowly ramped up to the volume/weight that I'm currently using. As for taking painkillers, I avoid them when I can.
Things that make me sore: calf raises, abs, shrugs, bodyweight glute ham raises, and lunges.0 -
I thought I would share my story as a cautionary tale with ibuprofen...its not based on any scientific studies obviously.
Before I lost my weight I would wake with back pain everyday...I would take ibuprofen to make it tolerable to get thru my day. (Prolly up to 6 months I did this). One day I suddenly had severe stomach pain which replicated a gall bladder attack. I ended up being taking by ambulance to emergency with severe stomach pains. It turned out I was severely dehydrated and I was put on morphine via drip and admitted to hospital. They believed it was a gall bladder attack and the stomach pains came back anytime I ate. I was waiting for scans to be done...so basically practically stopped eating....could only eat a select few things. This went on for about 2 weeks. I then went and was scanned...my gallbladder was perfect..my doctors worked out i had become "allergic" to ibuprofen (i think it was more i built up a sensitivity issue to it) but doctors now prefer to err on the side of caution. I can take it still but I am very careful and only take it if I am in real bad pain and never for more then 2 days. Any longer I will start to get signs of the pain again.
Also I wouldnt have thought my levels were enough to cause me issues but they did.0 -
I thought I would share my story as a cautionary tale with ibuprofen...its not based on any scientific studies obviously.
Before I lost my weight I would wake with back pain everyday...I would take ibuprofen to make it tolerable to get thru my day. (Prolly up to 6 months I did this). One day I suddenly had severe stomach pain which replicated a gall bladder attack. I ended up being taking by ambulance to emergency with severe stomach pains. It turned out I was severely dehydrated and I was put on morphine via drip and admitted to hospital. They believed it was a gall bladder attack and the stomach pains came back anytime I ate. I was waiting for scans to be done...so basically practically stopped eating....could only eat a select few things. This went on for about 2 weeks. I then went and was scanned...my gallbladder was perfect..my doctors worked out i had become "allergic" to ibuprofen (i think it was more i built up a sensitivity issue to it) but doctors now prefer to err on the side of caution. I can take it still but I am very careful and only take it if I am in real bad pain and never for more then 2 days. Any longer I will start to get signs of the pain again.
Also I wouldnt have thought my levels were enough to cause me issues but they did.
That's terrible. But what type of doses were you taking? Each pill is usually 200mg. I thought abotu 600 mg per day was about the maximum.
Screw it. I'm still sore from heavy squats/deads/power cleans tuesday. Light bench, heavy tris, jumrope on Wed and a 3 mile jog tonight. Took 400 mg this evening. I have b-ball tomorrow night0 -
learn to love DOMS :drinker:
tiger balm works well on pain caused by muscular tension, e.g. headaches, achy neck because you slept on it wrong
I've never tried it for DOMS, because I don't see it as the kind of pain you need to get rid of because it's from normal physiology not from anything wrong0 -
Screw it. I'm still sore from heavy squats/deads/power cleans tuesday. Light bench, heavy tris, jumrope on Wed and a 3 mile jog tonight. Took 400 mg this evening. I have b-ball tomorrow night
are you giving your body adequate rest/recovery time from all of this exercise? if you're not then your muscles will constantly be in a broken down state, and not have a chance to build up, and you'll be permanently sore (among other problems caused by overtraining)0 -
I thought I would share my story as a cautionary tale with ibuprofen...its not based on any scientific studies obviously.
Before I lost my weight I would wake with back pain everyday...I would take ibuprofen to make it tolerable to get thru my day. (Prolly up to 6 months I did this). One day I suddenly had severe stomach pain which replicated a gall bladder attack. I ended up being taking by ambulance to emergency with severe stomach pains. It turned out I was severely dehydrated and I was put on morphine via drip and admitted to hospital. They believed it was a gall bladder attack and the stomach pains came back anytime I ate. I was waiting for scans to be done...so basically practically stopped eating....could only eat a select few things. This went on for about 2 weeks. I then went and was scanned...my gallbladder was perfect..my doctors worked out i had become "allergic" to ibuprofen (i think it was more i built up a sensitivity issue to it) but doctors now prefer to err on the side of caution. I can take it still but I am very careful and only take it if I am in real bad pain and never for more then 2 days. Any longer I will start to get signs of the pain again.
Also I wouldnt have thought my levels were enough to cause me issues but they did.
That's terrible. But what type of doses were you taking? Each pill is usually 200mg. I thought abotu 600 mg per day was about the maximum.
Screw it. I'm still sore from heavy squats/deads/power cleans tuesday. Light bench, heavy tris, jumrope on Wed and a 3 mile jog tonight. Took 400 mg this evening. I have b-ball tomorrow night
I was taking no more then 2 tablets a day....I am in Australia and the recommended usage for adults is 1-2 tablets...I wasnt abusing it
I agree learn to love DOMs...i whinge and moan about it...but have never taken anything for DOMs.0 -
I agree about learning to just live with DOMS. The kind of soreness I experience is not debilitating at all--it's a slight discomfort at best. That's the level I like to keep it at. If it is debilitating, to me it's a sign that you did something wrong. You might have done too much, didn't warm up properly, or didn't use good form. Scale it back a bit to a point where you are still challenged but not suffering. This shouldn't feel like torture--what's the point of training if it makes your day-to-day life impossible without painkillers.0
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but, I should add that NSAIDs have their uses. When I have a musculoskeletal injury (and I am very prone to these, unfortunately), I take NSAIDs not just to reduce pain but to reduce inflammation, which can speed up healing time. You can use ice for that, but NSAIDs can be more practical.0 -
Biofreeze gel is your friend. Stuff is great for sore muscles.
http://www.allegromedical.com/personal-care-c532/biofreeze-4-oz-tube-p556695.html?utm_expid=44248-8&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/0 -
I try to avoid ibuprofen as I was taking upwards of 2000mg a day every three weeks for 3 days to battle endometriosis pain. It was scary but the only way to get through the day. I don't ever want to take it any more regularly than I have to. (I've solved that problem by taking continuous BCPs, which I'm fairly certain is the reason why I gained 20 pounds in 3 months this winter)
I do take a glutamine supplement every morning, which I think helps to take the edge off of my muscle soreness. They're still sore, but in a good way instead of in an agonizing way!0 -
Screw it. I'm still sore from heavy squats/deads/power cleans tuesday. Light bench, heavy tris, jumrope on Wed and a 3 mile jog tonight. Took 400 mg this evening. I have b-ball tomorrow night
are you giving your body adequate rest/recovery time from all of this exercise? if you're not then your muscles will constantly be in a broken down state, and not have a chance to build up, and you'll be permanently sore (among other problems caused by overtraining)
It's a delimna for sure. If I add 1 day of recovery, I'm over my calorie limit. If I skip a day, I won't get my cardiovascular workouts in. Sometimes I have to stack the workouts 2-3 days in a row or not get them in during the week. If I do legs, I limit the cardio to a light session in order aleviate sorness the next day. Or if I do chest/back, I'll hit the cardio hard.0 -
Screw it. I'm still sore from heavy squats/deads/power cleans tuesday. Light bench, heavy tris, jumrope on Wed and a 3 mile jog tonight. Took 400 mg this evening. I have b-ball tomorrow night
are you giving your body adequate rest/recovery time from all of this exercise? if you're not then your muscles will constantly be in a broken down state, and not have a chance to build up, and you'll be permanently sore (among other problems caused by overtraining)
It's a delimna for sure. If I add 1 day of recovery, I'm over my calorie limit. If I skip a day, I won't get my cardiovascular workouts in. Sometimes I have to stack the workouts 2-3 days in a row or not get them in during the week. If I do legs, I limit the cardio to a light session in order aleviate sorness the next day. Or if I do chest/back, I'll hit the cardio hard.
Can't you just eat less on rest days?0
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