Vegan vs vegan diet
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Although my diet would qualify me as a "vegan" I don't call myself a vegan because I am not radical about it. I do it for health and ethical reasons.
I eat a raw diet. So if it had a pulse or if man made it, I don't eat it.
I support anyone making any healthy changes to their diet. We all start somewhere.0 -
I read a comment recently that said something about 'a vegan diet' being different to being vegan. What does anyone reckon? Are you still vegan if you 'lapse' from time to time? I tend to think that if you eat any animal products you can't really call yourself vegan - but you might say that you follow a vegan diet for most of the time. But, I'm guessing from the recent thread on eating meat that other people who are part of this group don't have that same definition.
So... are you a vegan if you still occasionally eat animal products?
You are definitely not a vegan if you eat animal products. You could however you say you follow a plant based diet.
I think people are confusing eating a plant based diet with veganism. Besides avoiding animal products (no matter how little), veganism reaches far beyond what one eats. It includes avoiding leather, fur, personal items and cosmetics that contain animal products (like majority of red lipstick). There is also a lot of food that even PETA deems vegan that isn't, like Oreos (since they have various sources of sweeteners and sometimes they aren't vegan). A vegan diet technically does not allow for sugar (since that's made using animal bone char), anything that has caramel color, or drinking liquor that utilizes animal products for production. Those eating a plant based diet aren't necessarily concerned whether the shampoo they are using is cruelty and animal product free or that their Mercedes comes with leather or leatherette. Vegans are.0 -
wow, many opinion's here... as a new vegan, i wouldn't want anyone to question my reason for becoming a vegan be it die hard or diet based. if you've watched forks over knives or vegucation you can see the benefits health wise for yourself and how you can benefit making the world a greener place to live, so if you are a die hard vegan don't impose your standards on those who are diet based, bottom line lables suck and meateaters look at us the same anyway so we don't need to be getting in each others way, we need to be supporting each other no matter what. EAT GREEN and Live Long and Prosper lol0
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Setting the bar @ perfection is recipe for individual failure and group misery.
As long as one is making a full faith effort then that should be good enough.
It would be silly and self-defeating if vegan hardliner's chose to alienate all those aspiring vegans by looking down on them.
Nobody is perfect, including vegans, at least the human ones. [If one hasnt been vegan since consciousness or birth for that matter, can one really call oneself a real vegan??]
Becoming vegan is a process, a process that takes quite some time to correct decades of learned habits from family, community, and country.
Time to focus on the positives and unite instead of allow unrealistic expectations to divide the community....0 -
Setting the bar @ perfection is recipe for individual failure and group misery.
As long as one is making a full faith effort then that should be good enough.
It would be silly and self-defeating if vegan hardliner's chose to alienate all those aspiring vegans by looking down on them.
Nobody is perfect, including vegans, at least the human ones. [If one hasnt been vegan since consciousness or birth for that matter, can one really call oneself a real vegan??]
Becoming vegan is a process, a process that takes quite some time to correct decades of learned habits from family, community, and country.
Time to focus on the positives and unite instead of allow unrealistic expectations to divide the community....
well said0 -
I'm vegan 80-90% of the time. I do it for my health. Even though I know I'm not a "real" vegan. I tell people who only kinda know me I am, because it saves a whole lot of confusion. For whatever reason people (at an office party, etc) always want to know why I'm not eating X. It's so much easier to say "I'm vegan", rather than saying, that I eat mostly vegan, I can't have dairy, I try to be plant based, but every once in a while I'll have sushi or meat if I really want it, which is nearly never.
I wish I could call myself plant based but I love vegan junk food way way way to much.0 -
While I strive not to buy or consume food and other products made from animals for my own health and ethical reasons, this "true vegan" --are you perfect enough, good enough, VEGAN enough--will not help this movement catch on. Getting into squirrelly conversations about how "vegan" you are tends to intimidate and alienate those who are not, even other vegans.
My vote is, keep "how vegan" you are to yourself. Pat yourself on the back, and keep it up. You are doing a good thing for your health, the environment, AND reducing animal suffering, regardless if you are vegan only in diet or in a broader lifestyle.
Instead of the tireless "how vegan are you" conversation, consider doing something productive, and volunteer leafletting at a local college with Vegan Outreach (veganoutreach.org) With a smile and light heart, spread the positive message of veganism to total strangers. While not everyone will drop everything to take up a vegan diet or lifestyle, everyone you encounter will at least think about it. And hopefully, several will come back to ask questions or tips to get started.
Small changes beyond the vegan population, such as encouraging meat-eating friends to try Meatless Mondays, have a much greater impact on reducing suffering. Energy should focus on that vs. how vegan us "vegans" are...0 -
I don't eat meat or dairy, but don't worry about if my food contains white flour/sugar etc. If I am at a restaurant and there is a veggie burger, I don't ask what's in the bun. I have slipped up and eaten cheese 5 times in the past year. I don't go out of my way to buy leather or fur, but don't buy vegan clothes either. I call myself a vegan, because it's easier and gets the point across.0
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What you're referring to would be considered (in my personal opinion) a "plant-based diet" rather than truly vegan, since there's a lot more to veganism than simply diet alone, and is a lifestyle in which people strive to avoid animal products at all costs and do not occasionally consume them.. at least not intentionally.
I suppose you could also consider it being a strict vegetarian if you eat a vegan diet most of the time, but occasionally include dairy or eggs. If you eat meat occasionally you'd be considered neither vegetarian OR vegan by a lot of people's standards. It really just depends on who you ask.
I've also heard it called a "dietary vegan" before. That's how I started out, and now after a year i'm slowly starting to move onto buying animal and environmentally friendly soaps, shampoos, etc. At first I just focused on diet, so I referred to myself as a dietary vegan if people asked. I just discovered a great organic all natural soap that you can use for hair, body, everything. It's also not tested on animals and contains no chemicals. It's awesome and it's cheaper!0 -
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Vegan diet = not eating animal products. Vegan = not using or buying any animal products whatsoever. At least that's my guess.
Accurate way to define it!
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I might be going overboard but i even ditched some of my beauty products because they test on animals i am trying my best does that count?0
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I guess I fall under the "follow a vegan diet" category. I believe it's the healthiest way to eat; however, I do from time to time lapse - generally when we go out for dinner and there are NO vegan options. I don't disparage those who truly believe in the ethics of living vegan - they are certainly entitled to their beliefs. But I am of the mind that eating a plant-based diet and keeping dairy free are the healthiest options for me.0
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While I strive not to buy or consume food and other products made from animals for my own health and ethical reasons, this "true vegan" --are you perfect enough, good enough, VEGAN enough--will not help this movement catch on. Getting into squirrelly conversations about how "vegan" you are tends to intimidate and alienate those who are not, even other vegans.
My vote is, keep "how vegan" you are to yourself. Pat yourself on the back, and keep it up. You are doing a good thing for your health, the environment, AND reducing animal suffering, regardless if you are vegan only in diet or in a broader lifestyle.
Instead of the tireless "how vegan are you" conversation, consider doing something productive, and volunteer leafletting at a local college with Vegan Outreach (veganoutreach.org) With a smile and light heart, spread the positive message of veganism to total strangers. While not everyone will drop everything to take up a vegan diet or lifestyle, everyone you encounter will at least think about it. And hopefully, several will come back to ask questions or tips to get started.
Small changes beyond the vegan population, such as encouraging meat-eating friends to try Meatless Mondays, have a much greater impact on reducing suffering. Energy should focus on that vs. how vegan us "vegans" are...
I agree absolutely! There is no better way to turn off people than by being self-righteously preachy (that goes for religion, too!). The best way to get to most people is by explaining the health benefits. That's what I try to do. Many people tell me they could live without meat, but can't give up the cheese. Baby steps, I say! Any movement toward a healthier lifestyle is good progress!0 -
I think anyone who is interested in vegetarianism or veganism AT ALL should be enthusiastically encouraged and applauded. Don't we want these groups to GROW?? Wouldn't it be great if more people were thinking about animal welfare in general? I certainly didn't think this group was strictly for vegans, but anyone who is vegan, vegetarian, or shades in between, or **importantly** just veg curious. Maybe they are not even vegetarian, but perhaps they are CONSIDERING dipping their toe into the veg*n water. I say "Come on in! The waters fine :-) And you will love it!!)
Hip Hip Hurray that people WANT to call themselves vegan or vegetarian and are making at least SOME choices in their lives to help animals, the planet, and their health. I am not going to be one of those people who quibble over narrow textbook definitions. What is the point? Is that helping any animals? Is that helping the planet? Instead, I will give any person in this group a HIGH-FIVE for making a single choice, perhaps multiple choices that day to help animals, their health, and the planet. No judgements here, just encouragements!0 -
I think sometimes all these terms can be confusing to the general public. If a meeting is being catered and they ask my restrictions, it makes more sense to me to say "vegan" than to say "plant based diet" or "strict vegetarian" etc, because those terms aren't as common and can be misinterpreted. If I am speaking to another vegan/vegetarian, I might be more inclined to provide the background info. Just my opinion.0
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I personally find the vegan "culture" way too pretentious and judgmental. I'll stick with "plant-based".
I don't know what your experiences are but they seem unfortunate. I've had nothing but love from other vegans and haven't met a pretentious vegan yet.I think anyone who is interested in vegetarianism or veganism AT ALL should be enthusiastically encouraged and applauded. Don't we want these groups to GROW??
Absolutely. This needs to be the main focus and vegans as a group need to be accepting as possible. I think we are, but some of us seem to have had bad experiences.in re: does making mistakes make you not-vegan, to me, a lot of it is in the intent. if you eat something you reasonably think is vegan and find out later that it wasn't, that's just a learning experience, and i don't think that makes you less vegan
This is a quote from https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=120926087965760 that covers how I feel about it...
"Philosophically, I believe it is our moral imperative to reduce suffering whenever and wherever reasonably possible. I recognize it's not possible to totally eliminate suffering, but the important thing to me is that the effort is made. This is an important tenet of my personal philosophy (look up "ahimsa" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa). Each person must decide for themselves how much effort they wish to expend towards this goal. I feel strongly that abstinence from animals products (veganism) is the most reasonable, simple, safe, and effective act each person can undertake."
Basically, try as best YOU can. As best as YOU find reasonable. I'm sure there are Max Level Vegans out there that would put me to shame, just as I know there are others that I feel could put a better effort. But we are a small group, and we should not fight amongst ourselves.0 -
I read a comment recently that said something about 'a vegan diet' being different to being vegan. What does anyone reckon? Are you still vegan if you 'lapse' from time to time? I tend to think that if you eat any animal products you can't really call yourself vegan - but you might say that you follow a vegan diet for most of the time. But, I'm guessing from the recent thread on eating meat that other people who are part of this group don't have that same definition.
So... are you a vegan if you still occasionally eat animal products?
I'm working towards transitioning to what I call being a 'nutritional' vegan-I'm making the change to this way of eating for the health benefits and hopefully stacking the odds in my favor to beat out cancer down the road, but I will not be living a vegan lifestyle/becoming involved in AR etc. A whole foods plant based diet would be an appropriate label too, but I know a shocking amount of people who have no idea what I'm talking about, when I say I eat a whole foods diet :huh:0 -
Nobody who EVER eats ANYTHING that is from an animal, or a sentient being who was harmed in obtaining the food, should not call themselves vegan. If they do, they can't claim to care about the cause, because that is confusing to vegetarians and meat eaters regarding what vegan means. They should say they follow a primarily plant based diet, but never call themselves vegan.
If you say "I am a Vegan", this means you do not exploit animals in any way. You do not consume them or anything from them, you do not dress in their skins or fibers, you do not use products tested on or containing animals.
If you do not consume animal products, but you still use cosmetics or wear them, you say something like, "I follow a vegan diet".
That's simply what being a vegan is, and there is no grey area, you either are, or you aren't, and there's nothing wrong with any of them0 -
Veganism is not just a diet, it's a lifestyle that aims to avoid the exploitation of animals which includes not eating, wearing etc. animal derived products or products that are based on the exploitation of animals.
Any step towards this is positive and welcome, i,e. a plat based diet, but I think we should keep the definition fairly strict, to avoid it being watered down as the definition of vegetarian has become.
Cheers,
HC
Exactly this.0 -
i agree that calling oneself vegan if u occasionally eat NON vegan items is inaccurate, misleading, and ultimately weakens the cause of fighting animal suffering and oppression.
also, maybe some people follow a 'vegan diet' for health or weight reasons, and would not object to, say, wearing leather shoes, or buying bunny-rabbit-tested mascara.
i support all moves toward eating vegan, even if the person only does so part of the time. and some people are more motivated by health.
for me, my strongest motivator is ethics. my veganism is a hard-line approach (in my own life) and an integral part of who i am.
that being said, i am surprisingly relaxed about it when talking with non-vegans: giving the facts, yes...but also making jokes, and basically "meeting people where they ARE". i like to think that, after talking with me, the meat eater leaves thinking, "hmmmm...i guess vegans CAN be nice and not insane".
but deep down, i feel super strongly about it
You said my own thoughts very well. Thank you.0 -
Vegan vs vegan diet as I understand is more about are you a vegan or do you just eat that way. Vegan in the traditional sense is someone who doesn't eat, wear or wash with anything that has had an ill affect on an animals life or well being. If you don't eat animals but you wear a leather jacket you eat vegan you are not one. If you smoke but don't eat meat many would not consider you a vegan as ciggerettes are tested on animals. Vegan is more then a diet it is a complete life style. Vegan vs "vegan".0
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You would think it would be better to not dwell on the name of a thing but rather the act. If the eventual outcome is for the better really that is what is important. I firmly believe wearing, eating, or using animal products is wrong. I didn't get to this point over night. It was a gradual process that I hope is not over. Encourage those that are trying and be an example to those that aren't. You will not change the world by putting down its people. People think vegans are preachy and snobby this line of thinking can cement that.1
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You would think it would be better to not dwell on the name of a thing but rather the act. If the eventual outcome is for the better really that is what is important. I firmly believe wearing, eating, or using animal products is wrong. I didn't get to this point over night. It was a gradual process that I hope is not over. Encourage those that are trying and be an example to those that aren't. You will not change the world by putting down its people. People think vegans are preachy and snobby this line of thinking can cement that.
Agreed, but it's because of people who call themselves vegetarian but eat chicken or fish, and people who say they are vegan but eat fish or have dairy cheese sometimes that makes the whole thing confused. This is why when I tell people I'm a vegan, a lot of the time they say "oh but you eat fish/chicken/cheese right?" This isn't the distinction that makes people think vegans are jerks - it's like the vegans who are on the TCBY page saying that the new vegan silk chocolate almond is made from refined sugar blah blah blah that makes people think vegans are shmucks. Being shmucky makes people think we're shmucky. I don't really care what someone does or doesn't eat, but dear heavens, use the right word so we stop confusing people.
Unless, of course, the word is flexitarian, because that is the stupidest word ever.
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Unless, of course, the word is flexitarian, because that is the stupidest word ever.
Oh that's hilarious!
I hadn't heard that one before!!!
Thanks for the chuckles!0 -
You would think it would be better to not dwell on the name of a thing but rather the act. If the eventual outcome is for the better really that is what is important. I firmly believe wearing, eating, or using animal products is wrong. I didn't get to this point over night. It was a gradual process that I hope is not over. Encourage those that are trying and be an example to those that aren't. You will not change the world by putting down its people. People think vegans are preachy and snobby this line of thinking can cement that.
Agreed, but it's because of people who call themselves vegetarian but eat chicken or fish, and people who say they are vegan but eat fish or have dairy cheese sometimes that makes the whole thing confused. This is why when I tell people I'm a vegan, a lot of the time they say "oh but you eat fish/chicken/cheese right?" This isn't the distinction that makes people think vegans are jerks - it's like the vegans who are on the TCBY page saying that the new vegan silk chocolate almond is made from refined sugar blah blah blah that makes people think vegans are shmucks. Being shmucky makes people think we're shmucky. I don't really care what someone does or doesn't eat, but dear heavens, use the right word so we stop confusing people.
Unless, of course, the word is flexitarian, because that is the stupidest word ever.
lol I have never heard that word oh oh I know cutatarian lol They only avoid eating the cute animals lol I am all vegan I am even making all my own soaps and stuff peta's website has some recipes its fun I was meaning the people that are rude to others I just don't like meanies lol 0 -
Yeah meanies are bad! There are definitely a-hole vegans out there. You make your own soap! That's pretty awesome. Is it easy or hard?0
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Very easy actually just buy castlic soap on line mix some essential oils in like currently i am on a lavender kick and use it as both conditioner and shampoo once a week i will do a hair mask with extra virgin olive oil its super soft. That soap can be used for everything pretty much brushing teeth ( just and mint), laundry soap, dish soap, body wash, well everything lol0
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oh right! i always forget i have like 2 bottles of dr. bronner's.0
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I'm only thinking about this now since you brought it up. I guess technically, in my opinion, you're not really vegan if you eat or use/wear/etc. any animal products at all.
I've been calling myself vegan, but really I EAT a plant-based diet. I haven't gone so far as to eliminate clothing and other products that are made with animal parts yet.0
