SL 5X5 vs. Allpro, hybrid?
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After seeing that program I would recommend that over SL for beginners for sure. Just as much practice at the big lifts and less likely to injure yourself with lower weights.
I still think this is context dependent and there might be some need to clarify what we call a "beginner"
Definitely agree with higher volume and lower loads for motor learning but not necessarily in a higher rep-per-set model as that might not be ideal for other reasons.
I have more to say on this but I want to organize my thoughts further.
I was thinking of a beginner as someone new to strength training. Less than 3 months or so experience.
Don't get me wrong, the heavier stuff is definitely a good idea for LBM retention in a deficit but I think beginners need to earn the right to progress to that.0 -
96 Hour bump. Wasn't sure if you two had had a chance to get together to geek it out.0
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96 Hour bump. Wasn't sure if you two had had a chance to get together to geek it out.
Thanks. We will respond today as we did discuss - I just want to double check the final recommendation.0 -
In to read.0
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Sorry for the delay with this.
So, we would recommend a modified 5 x 5 program, which incorporates the accessory lifts you mentioned you liked. The progression for the compounds would follow Stronglifts. It is 3 x a week and full body so you would need a rest in between the workouts.
Workout 1:
Squat 5 x 5
Bench 5 x 5
Row 5 x 5
Pull ups 3 x 8 – 12
Calves 3 x 8 - 12
Workout 2:
Deads 3 x 5
Bench 3 x 5
OHP 3 x 5
Dips 3 x 8 - 12
Pull ups 3 x 8 – 12
Curls 3 x 8 – 12
Workout 3:
Squat 5 x 5
OHP 5 x 5
Row 5 x 5
Pull ups 3 x 8 – 12
Calves 3 x 8 – 12
If you find you are stalling, even after deloading, or are finding that it takes too long as the lifts get heavier and therefore requires more rest time between sets, then drop all sets to 3 x 5.
You also should follow the warm ups for the compounds as laid out in SL (not required on the other lifts).0 -
Thank you Sara and SS :flowerforyou: I wish I had a way to send you cases of ice cream for all the advice you give through this group.
I had one quick question:
On dips, I am not sure I can 3x8-12 at this point. I may end up failing to get up to 8 on the 2nd and 3rd reps. Should I go as high as I can with reps at this point (I would probably end up at 8,6,5 at body weight) or do assisted dips so I can hit 3x8-12?
ETA: starting weight for this program at my current working weights?0 -
For the dips - just do as many as you can.
For the starting weight, do you know your 1RM (or 5RM)?0 -
Yes, or pretty close, since I have failed (either break form or fail to complete) on all of the lifts at some point. Current stats below if that helps:
5x5 Max:
Bench: 140
Squat: 160 :ohwell:
Dead Lift: 190 (225 when done as 1x5)
OHP: 80
Row: 1250 -
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what sort of rep range is this allpro routine?
Personally, I think the 8-10rep range is better suited to beginners initially than 5x5. You don't really NEED to work up to that intensity as a beginner to make strength gains anyway. Get more practice that way too. 5 rep sets are fine for strength gains but as a beginner you will actually find that most trainers will recommend higher rep ranges and you can decrease them as your form improves and you feel comfortable to up the weights further. An extreme example would be going for a 1rm on your first day, no real point. I hope that makese sense, I'm tired
^^thanks, you saved me the time to write my thoughts up as I agree.
There is also the argument that 5 x 5 is not really that different to 4 x 8. It is 25 reps compared to 24. However, you can load the bar a bit more on 5 x 5 as you are doing fewer reps per set...BUT, it is kind of irrelevant while still learning iifts.
The basics of AllPro is:
These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises
You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10%
I actually prefer this for beginners for the reasons you mention, as well as it is more rounded imo.
4x8=32. Just sayin'.....0 -
what sort of rep range is this allpro routine?
Personally, I think the 8-10rep range is better suited to beginners initially than 5x5. You don't really NEED to work up to that intensity as a beginner to make strength gains anyway. Get more practice that way too. 5 rep sets are fine for strength gains but as a beginner you will actually find that most trainers will recommend higher rep ranges and you can decrease them as your form improves and you feel comfortable to up the weights further. An extreme example would be going for a 1rm on your first day, no real point. I hope that makese sense, I'm tired
^^thanks, you saved me the time to write my thoughts up as I agree.
There is also the argument that 5 x 5 is not really that different to 4 x 8. It is 25 reps compared to 24. However, you can load the bar a bit more on 5 x 5 as you are doing fewer reps per set...BUT, it is kind of irrelevant while still learning iifts.
The basics of AllPro is:
These are the seven exercises you will be starting with.
Squats
Bench Presses
Bent-Over Rows
Overhead Barbell Presses
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts
Barbell Curls
Calf Raises
You will be running this program on a five week cycle as follows:
The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps.
The third week do all 4 sets for 10 reps.
The fourth week do all 4 sets for 11 reps.
The fifth week do all 4 sets for 12 reps.
If you got all of the required reps on the fifth week then increase the weight by 10%
I actually prefer this for beginners for the reasons you mention, as well as it is more rounded imo.
4x8=32. Just sayin'.....
Crap...I am so used to seeing 3 x 8. And I work with numbers...
Although, this is not really comparable as 2 of those sets are warm up sets. The 5 x 5 does not include the warm ups. If you take them out of the equation it is 2 x 8 - 12 v 5 x 5. Does not change the recommendation however, especially as there is more overlap with the lifts as there are more of them with AllPro.0 -
Best thing about an even number of sets is it's easier to superset single limb movements.0
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BUMP FOR LATER0
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Just putting in my own 2 cents..
I do like the simplicity of SL 5x5. I applied the concepts to the equipment I had access to and I don't regret the progress I've made at all.
BUT...I do think I'd have been better off starting off with AllPros. The 8-12 reps is a better way to judge progression, and in my opinion, would have been better in the long run with form, endurance and even strength.
I think if I had started of with this first and then later down the road had switched to Stronglifts, I'd have seen faster/better gains than I did starting off with SL.0 -
Feeling a bit dumb... But oh well...
If I'm doing AllPro with dumbbells, would I be better switching to Bulgarian split squats when I can no longer cope with the arm strain of the heavy dumbbells, or switch at the start to get used to the movement?
Also, with the split squats do I rest after each leg, or rest after doing the reps with both legs?
(I'm assuming here I'm doing all 8 reps on one leg and then switching?!)
Trying to get it straight in my head for when I switch programs! Thanks
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Feeling a bit dumb... But oh well...
If I'm doing AllPro with dumbbells, would I be better switching to Bulgarian split squats when I can no longer cope with the arm strain of the heavy dumbbells, or switch at the start to get used to the movement?
Also, with the split squats do I rest after each leg, or rest after doing the reps with both legs?
(I'm assuming here I'm doing all 8 reps on one leg and then switching?!)
Trying to get it straight in my head for when I switch programs! Thanks
Bulgarian Split Squats are an excellent swap out. On the rare occasion I do them (they are hard and I am a wimp) then I do one leg after the other with only say 10 secs in between). The 'proper' rest will be after doing both legs.
Do all the reps on one, then do them on the other.0
