Calorie Counting - Is It A Big OA No! No!?
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operavagabond
Posts: 84 Member
Recently I got an email from a fellow member of OA saying that "we do not count calories" and OA is "not a diet" club. This member frowned down upon my using MFP for my food plan - or for even using it for that matter. Although I understand the reasoning that some people can become obsessed with calorie counting, I couldn't disagree with this member more. MFP keeps me honest and having a visible diary allows anyone to "see" my food plan. Is there any difference between weighing a 3oz portion of "protein" (as preferred by some OA members) and entering 200 calories in MFP for the same portion? Both are using scales (units of measure) to gauge food intake. Even the Dignity of Choice pamphlet says that all food plans are different and that some members need to count calories for the structure. To me, MFP has been the best tool I've used in my daily accountability.
So my question is - can you use MFP and still be a good member of OA?
So my question is - can you use MFP and still be a good member of OA?
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Replies
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It's disappointing to hear of anyone being so discouraging.
I think MFP is a good tool and do plan to use it while participating in OA.0 -
Sorry that happened. It is judgment, plain and simple... though hurtful all the same.0
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Thanks Jessie! I don't mean to be down on my OA friend, but it did cause me to step back and wonder if I was doing something wrong.
I think MFP is a powerful tool and I'm glad it is available! 0 -
Recently I got an email from a fellow member of OA saying that "we do not count calories" and OA is "not a diet" club. This member frowned down upon my using MFP for my food plan - or for even using it for that matter. Although I understand the reasoning that some people can become obsessed with calorie counting, I couldn't disagree with this member more. MFP keeps me honest and having a visible diary allows anyone to "see" my food plan. Is there any difference between weighing a 3oz portion of "protein" (as preferred by some OA members) and entering 200 calories in MFP for the same portion? Both are using scales (units of measure) to gauge food intake. Even the Dignity of Choice pamphlet says that all food plans are different and that some members need to count calories for the structure. To me, MFP has been the best tool I've used in my daily accountability.
So my question is - can you use MFP and still be a good member of OA?
Great topic!
My sponsor and I had a similar conversation in person this week. She wants me to only weigh myself once a month. I am weighing in twice a month (I used to weigh once a week so this is a stretch for me). We then got into a discussion of calorie counting. I kept asking her what is the difference between weighing and measuring your food (she does that) vs calorie counting. She tried her best to explain, saying it is about "control." I told her I still didn't understand (and I also brought up the Dignity of choice pamphlet, lol). I think what she may have been saying is that if calorie counting is about tweeking and focusing on that, rather than on one's recovery (i.e. "decision to turn one's will over to God/HP" and working the 12 steps, etc., and not overeating), then yes, I suppose it would be like a diet club type feeling. It isn't like that for me, although I do have to be careful to not get all caught up in the numbers (I find it fun). Her question to me was this; "How free do you want to be"?
So, she and I will keep talking about this and I'll see where it leads me. I do appreciate all her info and feedback. She has more recovery than I do and is at a normal weight and used to weigh over 300 pounds. She's doing something right. :bigsmile:
For now, for me, to not count calorie's and just weigh and measure feels too scary, as if I would then eat too much. I feel for me, that MFP is a guide and a tool to my support. But, maybe down the road I will find out otherwise as my 12 step recovery builds. "God, I offer myself to you, to build with me, and do with me as you will. Relieve me of the bondage of self that I may better do your will. Take away my difficulties that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of your power, love, and way of life. May I do your will always." (Third step prayer - and yes I memorized it and I say it every morning upon waking)
Take care,
Patti 1 -
I weigh and measure, and I use MFP to track my eating behaviors and portion sizes more than to count calories. In fact, I try not to pay attention at all to my calories. This is related to my own motivation for being in OA, which is to deal with my disordered eating, not to lose weight. Focusing on weight loss can be triggering to me--even though I do weigh myself and track my weight loss, it has to be on my own terms, and it has to be a side effect of not eating compulsively, rather than the goal. (That is also why I personally dislike the part of the definition of abstinence about "maintaining or working toward a healthy body weight.") To me, any body weight I am at is healthy as long as I am eating normally and doing moderate exercise. I do not have a "goal weight," I have goal behaviors. Whatever happens to my weight happens. This attitude has to do with my belief that I need to feel good and worthy as I am, and if I am specifically trying to change my body, I feel like it is a way of saying I am dissatisfied with myself.
However, that's ME, and I recognize that I bring my own set of issues, beliefs, etc., to the table. I don't think that paying attention to one's calories is a bad thing, if that is the food plan that works for you. Some people in OA do WW as their food plan, and I don't think counting "points" is very different from counting calories. It's good to be self-aware, but finding what works for you seems most important to me!0 -
I agree about using MFP as a tool. I use it to hold myself accountable. It helps me be honest. As a vegan, I find it difficult to keep track of the nutritional needs of my body on a daily basis. MFP helps in that way,too- tracking the amounts for vital nutrition. If I keep a record of all I eat, it makes me stop and think "am I moving in the direction of moderation, or am I facing a situation that might bring about a binge". When the tracker doesn't look right (?too many snacks/ too much of a food?) I turn to OA tools.0
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Great topic My understanding of the phrase is it is 'We are not a diet and calories club' which is true. I like the OA definition of abstinence and I also like that OA encourages us to find an eating plan which is healthy and is something that will work for us in achieving abstinence. I started in OA by eating '3 moderate meals' a day and putting down my binge/trigger foods. I had a lot of weight to lose and that worked well. But as time went on my abstinence and my eating plan has changed and developed and I realised that I needed to have a way of knowing what a reasonable or moderate portion was. And after 50+ years of disordered eating thinking and behaviour I couldn't really do that . So I listened to other OA members who talked about weighing and measuring and then about calories and it made sense to me. For me its a pragmatic tool being here. It helps me to know what is moderate. I have times when I walk away for a bit when my head starts tripping me up about the numbers and I'm focusing on 'diet' rather than the 12 steps and trusting my HP. But Im sure for me that my HP expects me to take sensible actions with regard to my disease. I can't sit here eating what I like and doing nothing to move my body. And MFP has really helped me understand my body's needs as she has released the weight. Now I use it as a general guide. Some days i eat a few more calories some days less. It balances out. And my baseline is still 3 meals a day, a fruit snack and no sugar/refined sugar. I don't think it is up to me to comment or judge another member on their eating plan unless they ask me for feedback as a sponsor or friend.My plan is between me and my HP and my sponsor. 0
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Using MFP for me IS a part of my program. I don't do it perfectly, cause that can also set up insanity and perfectionism for me. I don't weigh my food, and I don't have cups and tablespoons sitting on my counter to make sure a 1/4 cup is just that. That said, using MFP has become a part of my food plan and it really helps keep me sane. I do my best to enter my food before I eat, but there are days (like yesterday) when it just adds to the craziness my day is experiencing. If I wasn't using MFP, I would be way under nutritional needs when I exercise, and MFP reminds me of that some days, too.
Each of us is allowed the opportunity and freedom to define how we do OUR Program. Read the book "Beyond Our Wildest Dreams", and see how OA was born and all the growing pains it experienced. There were factions at the beginning of what was "right" and what was "wrong". If using Calories keeps me sane, on track and abstinent, and my sponsor is aware that MFP is part of my food plan ... well then damn the torpedos! It's MY Program, my body and my life. Yes, I must ask for willingness from my HP on a moment by moment basis -- still something that is not an ingrained habit for me.
My food is better than it has been for YEARS -- and I attribute that to OA, the 12 Steps AND MFP.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Just the fact that person said those things to you means they are NOT following OA. It is NONE of our business what someone else does for their health plan. Period. The reason we are in this organization is that we have suffered from such overbearance that has driven us to poor self image, poor judgement and poor control.
IGNORE THEM AND DON'T TALK TO THEM AGAIN ABOUT YOUR PROGRAM. That is my OA advice.0 -
And... I obviously use MFP for managing my plan.0
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If i don't measure my food and plan before I eat, I simple overeat. It is that simple. I need structure to keep myself abstinent. No one can tell you what to do. You can read the food plan pamphlet or speak to your sponsor. I went to a dietician to figure out what and how much I should be eating to stay on a healthy path and then discussed this with my sponsor. No, its not a diet club if your in OA, just a program that guides you to abstinence. MFP can keep you on track and maintain your abstinence Good luck to you.0
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Great topic! I had this question, too, when I first joined MFP. I find MFP to be a wonderful tool and it helps me stay honest and accountable about my food. At first I was diligent about putting every morsel that went in my mouth on that diary and it was good. It, too, however, can mess with my head. I did find, however, I was getting totally obsessed with the numbers/calories/nutrients, etc.
Since I'm releasing .5 - 1.0 consistently every week, my sponsor suggested/wondered if that portion of the site is really necessary for me. I do track my weight (once a week), occasionally track my food and exercise, and get on the message boards.
I'm sorry your OA fellow reacted that way, and I'm glad you reached out to "check it out"! I agree with everyone and the wonderful "Dignity of Choice" pamphlet. Though we born of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, we are a different program, a different addiction. We must "face our dragon" three times / day; unfortunately, we can't completely abstain from food, though sometimes I wish I could! I believe there are some in OA who CAN eat sugar and white flour in moderation. I'm just not one of them, much to my chagrin. Since giving up sugar and white flour in April, I have finally become abstinent.
I'm glad that I "didn't quit before my miracle happened!" Since becoming abstinent, putting down the food, I've been able to pick up the Big Book and start writing on the steps, follow my Sponsor's direction (not the Sponsor I wanted, but the one God wanted for me), commit my food daily, be honest about what I REALLY ate (even though I HATE it), and even exercise (jog?!) daily. I am the miracle I saw in other people and didn't believe was possible for me. If I can work this program, ANYONE can!
I am so DEEPLY GRATEFUL to OA for loving me until I could love myself enough to start my journey of recovery.0 -
I've been going to OA for over 15 years now and have listened to people following the grey sheet as well as people following the 3-0-1 (three meals a day with nothing in between). I have had the spectrum of all three eating disorders (BED, anorexia, and bulimia). I am using MFP at the suggestion of my dietitian and psychiatrist as a means of tracking my protein and fat intake because part of my struggle is consuming enough of those macronutrients to make my food plan work. It's a struggle to count calories too, but it is what it is.
Where I live, I sense the prevailing sense in the meetings that I go to that "our food plan is right and if you're not following it, then you're not doing it right." The food plan that most people follow is abstaining from sugar and white flour while having three meals a day with nothing in between. I've been inpatient in an eating disorder facility and the food plan suggested here contradicts everything I've been trying to learn. The group members here trying to instill acceptance of their food plan as the best food plan violates everything I've learned in 15 years and four cities about the dignity of choice. What works for me may or may not work for yo. What I learned is that I shouldn't talk about my food plan except privately because it is MINE and yet that isn't what the group conscience seems to be here. It's an odd dynamic, but in Our Invitation to You we are given the choice of how we approach OA. More specifically, when the world service office added "a plan of eating" to the tools of recovery, they didn't designate what that plan of eating is so any one member who tells another member how their food plan should be is violating one of the principles that OA believes in.0 -
I really dislike a lot of the people who are so into OA that they scream at you when you do things your way - and the program says "take what you want & leave the rest" but they give you grief if you don't do 1 - all the steps, or 2 - if you calorie count, or 3 - don't do any steps at all. It's a super turn-off to OA.
PS, I like what everyone here says.0 -
The 12 steps are supposed to help you stick to your food plan- whatever yours is. And your plan may change over time.
Anyone who considers themselves a member is. There is no test of the person's belief's, adherence to a specific food plan, actively working the steps, etc.
The fellowship is made up of humans with all types of personalities, faults, etc. Some may resent the fact that their food plan may need to be more restrictive than someone else's.
Others may be well meaning, however their advice to you may not be on target. It's a journey for all and we have to be tolerant of each other and not let personalities get in the way.
The more members you hear speak, meet etc. the more variation you will see and recovery wears many different faces / and sizes.0 -
Love what you said MFG. Love it. You're right, but these people with their "my way or the highway" approach can give other people tons of stress.
One online meeting is particularly like this, run by a man. I really should complain to OA about this guy but suffice to say, since I have links to online OA on my profile, his "group" is no longer linked by me.
If anyone wants any details about whom this person is pm me.0 -
I would avoid his group and stay out of any conflict. Part of what I've learned from OA is I can't control others and situations. Hopefully others won't be scared away and it will work itself out. Time is better spent in other ways.0
