But, that's kind of my point. Nothing is stopping fast food workers from pursuing better opportunities. That's what I did, and now I don't have to sling burgers to get by.

I work for a state transportation agency. We have men and women on these roads every day serving as first responders who are barely making above minimum wage. There are police force and firemen that haven't seen a raise in years and have watched their pensions grow smaller because governments can't stretch tax dollars far enough, and citizens don't want to pay more. Let's not forget military and federal employees and the pay and benefits that they have had to lose simply because Congress couldn't approve a budget.

Why are the fast food workers so much more important to you than the people that keep you in a safe and comfortable society?

Personally, I think its easier for you to tell someone else how to spend their money than it is for you to want to spend a little of your own. McDonald's is a massive corporation, and its easy to wag our fingers and tell them they should have to pay their workers more. But when it comes to paying taxes so a public employee can make a living wage, suddenly the story is reversed. Why? Because the money is coming out of your pocket, and not McDonald's.

^I don't know how to turn a second persons quotes blue.


As stated above, but with different examples, a McDonald's worker in Indiana make minimum wage as far as I know, for 14,000 a year roughly, while in as far back as 2005, a rookie police officer for the IMPD gets 41,000 a year and a take home car. Even when, once again, adjusting the fast food workers pay (even to the 15 which I do not advocate, they still make roughly 11,000 dollars less a year than a cop, so you are both drawing a comparison as if giving fast food workers a raise would elevate them to the wage level of the previously mentioned professions.

As far as military pay goes, they also happen to factor in cost of living and give soldiers COLA, and people on active duty who live outside the states as I did are given money for their souse depending on their home zipcode. In 2002 when I was married, I was paid an extra 700 (roughly) a month. If my wife lived in San Diego (which means a whale's vagina) I would have been paid 2500 extra or around that.

And no where do I state I do not care about the plight of any other worker in the US, I am simple pointing out that while several skilled laborers in every field might be feeling the pinch, or even worse, be laid off, I do not believe American citizens in any job who are willing to work full time should be so poor they would be practically destitute without government assistance.

And lastly, yes McD's is a huge corporation, but as pointed out before, most of them do not get to dive into corporate money, which is why, once again, I do not advocate paying fast food workers 10--15 dollars an hour in Indiana or other low COL states. However, I will assume ( and I concede that I might be wrong since I could not find the figures, but I think I am right) that a NYC McD's makes good profits simply because of the high customer rate.

As I stated, I was once a fast food worker. I only qualified for assistance because I had a child. And you know, I didn't stop striving for better until I could no longer qualify for assistance (and I still really haven't stopped as I'm currently working on my MBA). If fast food workers want to make a living wage, then they can pursue the same path as the rest of us did, and that's the point. People start with fast food, they don't end there.

Economically, increasing wages to $15 an hour (and I realize you aren't advocating that as much as an income rebalancing which I can support) would have a pretty devastating impact. The price of fast food would go up, which would mean the price of "premium" restaurant food would go up, which means the standard consumers would stop going out and spending money on food, and its really undetermined the impact that it would have on the retail industry because less money spent in restaurants means less money for servers who are also consumers AND I'm sure there would be a direct correlation between consumers going out to eat and then, shopping in the same trip.

It just doesn't seem like you are looking at this from an economic standpoint at all. Sure, these fast food restaurants should do some wage surveys to make certain that they are competitive, and should likely consider some wage adjustments. But that's for the company to decide. Almost every state is "right-to-work", the fast food industry is NOT unionized, and these companies are actually within their rights to fire every last person that is picketing. It wouldn't help their public image much, but it would not be something that they would not eventually recover from.

Bettering yourself is great, and I agree that people in Fast Food jobs shouldn't strive just to be there for all time...but I am not talking about making these people well paid or even reasonably well paid, I am trying to make the point that they should be able to afford rent, public transportation, basic utilities preferably with out the government assistance. I believe that even at 9-10 dollars an hour, people will still be as motivated to move on because the jobs suck. As far as the cyclical nature of the economy, there seems to be a more conservative mind set similar to yours and a more liberal mind set that is the opposite, that if we paid them more, it would actually stimulate the economy. In the end, I don't think either argument stands out because we have had both mind sets in office and you can track both of their successes and failures.

But the crux of our argument comes to this, I think we are both making assumptions about specific fast food joints and both run the risk of being right or wrong, or maybe both> While I agree that 15 dollars an hour nation wide would be catastrophic, I do not see paying NYC workers, or Boston or anywhere else with high COL 10 bucks an hour would be as devastating as the fast food companies are claiming. I am assuming that in a city with that much cash and so many citizens, they have enough profit to, at an individual store, soak up the losses of that pay increase. This, however, might lead to increased costs at the place in question because there are two types of greed destroying this nation, people who abuse welfare and unemployment, and people who think that running a business should accumulate enough money to shampoo their crotch with caviar or it's just not worth doing.

As I stated, I was once a fast food worker. I only qualified for assistance because I had a child. And you know, I didn't stop striving for better until I could no longer qualify for assistance (and I still really haven't stopped as I'm currently working on my MBA). If fast food workers want to make a living wage, then they can pursue the same path as the rest of us did, and that's the point. People start with fast food, they don't end there.

Economically, increasing wages to $15 an hour (and I realize you aren't advocating that as much as an income rebalancing which I can support) would have a pretty devastating impact. The price of fast food would go up, which would mean the price of "premium" restaurant food would go up, which means the standard consumers would stop going out and spending money on food, and its really undetermined the impact that it would have on the retail industry because less money spent in restaurants means less money for servers who are also consumers AND I'm sure there would be a direct correlation between consumers going out to eat and then, shopping in the same trip.

It just doesn't seem like you are looking at this from an economic standpoint at all. Sure, these fast food restaurants should do some wage surveys to make certain that they are competitive, and should likely consider some wage adjustments. But that's for the company to decide. Almost every state is "right-to-work", the fast food industry is NOT unionized, and these companies are actually within their rights to fire every last person that is picketing. It wouldn't help their public image much, but it would not be something that they would not eventually recover from.

Bettering yourself is great, and I agree that people in Fast Food jobs shouldn't strive just to be there for all time...but I am not talking about making these people well paid or even reasonably well paid, I am trying to make the point that they should be able to afford rent, public transportation, basic utilities preferably with out the government assistance. I believe that even at 9-10 dollars an hour, people will still be as motivated to move on because the jobs suck. As far as the cyclical nature of the economy, there seems to be a more conservative mind set similar to yours and a more liberal mind set that is the opposite, that if we paid them more, it would actually stimulate the economy. In the end, I don't think either argument stands out because we have had both mind sets in office and you can track both of their successes and failures.

But the crux of our argument comes to this, I think we are both making assumptions about specific fast food joints and both run the risk of being right or wrong, or maybe both> While I agree that 15 dollars an hour nation wide would be catastrophic, I do not see paying NYC workers, or Boston or anywhere else with high COL 10 bucks an hour would be as devastating as the fast food companies are claiming. I am assuming that in a city with that much cash and so many citizens, they have enough profit to, at an individual store, soak up the losses of that pay increase. This, however, might lead to increased costs at the place in question because there are two types of greed destroying this nation, people who abuse welfare and unemployment, and people who think that running a business should accumulate enough money to shampoo their crotch with caviar or it's just not worth doing.

Let's just for a minute put aside the COL argument because I agree with you on that point.

The fact of the matter is that were it not for my child support, I would qualify for government assistance, as a state employee, making $12.65 an hour (finally did the math). So the reality is that an increase to $10 an hour isn't really going to get anyone off of public assistance. Also, I stated earlier that many fast food workers ARE making around $9 - $10 an hour presently if they have earned performance raises and have made some real attempts to negotiate. The only fast food workers that are actually making minimum wage are the ones that are at entry-level or are not wise enough to realize that they have negotiating power. In which case, those individuals need to request a meeting with their manager and discuss the issue. Picketing for a nationwide blanket increase to a ridiculous sum that exceeds what many public employees are making is asking for trouble considering that most states are "right-to-work" and they can be fired if the company decides to go that route.

As I stated, I was once a fast food worker. I only qualified for assistance because I had a child. And you know, I didn't stop striving for better until I could no longer qualify for assistance (and I still really haven't stopped as I'm currently working on my MBA). If fast food workers want to make a living wage, then they can pursue the same path as the rest of us did, and that's the point. People start with fast food, they don't end there.

Economically, increasing wages to $15 an hour (and I realize you aren't advocating that as much as an income rebalancing which I can support) would have a pretty devastating impact. The price of fast food would go up, which would mean the price of "premium" restaurant food would go up, which means the standard consumers would stop going out and spending money on food, and its really undetermined the impact that it would have on the retail industry because less money spent in restaurants means less money for servers who are also consumers AND I'm sure there would be a direct correlation between consumers going out to eat and then, shopping in the same trip.

It just doesn't seem like you are looking at this from an economic standpoint at all. Sure, these fast food restaurants should do some wage surveys to make certain that they are competitive, and should likely consider some wage adjustments. But that's for the company to decide. Almost every state is "right-to-work", the fast food industry is NOT unionized, and these companies are actually within their rights to fire every last person that is picketing. It wouldn't help their public image much, but it would not be something that they would not eventually recover from.

Bettering yourself is great, and I agree that people in Fast Food jobs shouldn't strive just to be there for all time...but I am not talking about making these people well paid or even reasonably well paid, I am trying to make the point that they should be able to afford rent, public transportation, basic utilities preferably with out the government assistance. I believe that even at 9-10 dollars an hour, people will still be as motivated to move on because the jobs suck. As far as the cyclical nature of the economy, there seems to be a more conservative mind set similar to yours and a more liberal mind set that is the opposite, that if we paid them more, it would actually stimulate the economy. In the end, I don't think either argument stands out because we have had both mind sets in office and you can track both of their successes and failures.

But the crux of our argument comes to this, I think we are both making assumptions about specific fast food joints and both run the risk of being right or wrong, or maybe both> While I agree that 15 dollars an hour nation wide would be catastrophic, I do not see paying NYC workers, or Boston or anywhere else with high COL 10 bucks an hour would be as devastating as the fast food companies are claiming. I am assuming that in a city with that much cash and so many citizens, they have enough profit to, at an individual store, soak up the losses of that pay increase. This, however, might lead to increased costs at the place in question because there are two types of greed destroying this nation, people who abuse welfare and unemployment, and people who think that running a business should accumulate enough money to shampoo their crotch with caviar or it's just not worth doing.

Let's just for a minute put aside the COL argument because I agree with you on that point.

The fact of the matter is that were it not for my child support, I would qualify for government assistance, as a state employee, making $12.65 an hour (finally did the math). So the reality is that an increase to $10 an hour isn't really going to get anyone off of public assistance. Also, I stated earlier that many fast food workers ARE making around $9 - $10 an hour presently if they have earned performance raises and have made some real attempts to negotiate. The only fast food workers that are actually making minimum wage are the ones that are at entry-level or are not wise enough to realize that they have negotiating power. In which case, those individuals need to request a meeting with their manager and discuss the issue. Picketing for a nationwide blanket increase to a ridiculous sum that exceeds what many public employees are making is asking for trouble considering that most states are "right-to-work" and they can be fired if the company decides to go that route.

I think these are all valid points. So what is the cut off for the various government assistances, and are they different State to State? I tried looking it up but couldn't find a solid number a person had to be under, at least in Indiana.

Each state varies, they either have right-to-work or at will and some even have combination of the two, From what I gather, right-to-work only affects unions in that they can't deny anyone employment. So if your job isn't unionized it does no good. Especially when unions destroy a company i.e. Hostess.

Another thing we neglected to consider is how taxes and deductions would affect a pay raise. After federal & state taxes (for those that have them) social security, garnishment, etc etc.. even a $10/hour raise would equate to roughly an extra dollar per hour. While every little bit helps, this means a small raise isn't going to be a huge difference. Now to make these people earn $15 would equate to about $18/hour before taxes. And since most franchises claim to only have a 1% profit margin, even that $10 seems impossible without raising menu prices. Not to mention the massive influx of people with much more qualifications applying for a job. If a restaurant starts paying that much, they're likely to raise hiring standards to people with degrees. It sounds ludicrous, but best believe college graduates will apply for jobs with wages like that.

A great idea is give raises to employees taking classes at accredited colleges, assuming profits allow it.. Start giving really competitive rates for those who show initiative for self improvement. Give it some crazy name like "Competitive Wages for Aspiring Students" then market it. Corporate may even provide funds for this as the positive publicity would likely send share prices up. This would increase revenues as consumers are more likely to buy from franchises helping students. Applicants will stay up so those who don't follow the standards are easily replaced. Night classes, weekends, online, anything so long as they show an initiative for improvement. Government grants and scholarships would cover most if not all semester fees. The average low income student only needs to buy books which are very cheap when used.

Hmm, I should patent this idea.

I tried looking up what the average amount of employees at a McD's is at any given time, so I think 20 is a reasonable estimation, probably and overestimation. So 20 workers at a 24/7 being given a raise from 7.25 an hour to 10.00 an hour is going to roughly cost the establishment 500,000 dollars, which is a huge chunk of change.

I tried looking up what the average amount of employees at a McD's is at any given time, so I think 20 is a reasonable estimation, probably and overestimation. So 20 workers at a 24/7 being given a raise from 7.25 an hour to 10.00 an hour is going to roughly cost the establishment 500,000 dollars, which is a huge chunk of change.

You have severely underestimated the number of employees needed to operate a McDonald's 24/7. There might be 20 per shift with 3 different shifts. And that is just hourly associates.