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  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    hm, bumbles, you give me pause for my DL. I was setting up like that until I had a session with a PT who also competes. He pointed out that when I set up like that because of my height, my shoulders were way forward of the bar, so got me to just put my toes (about 3") under the bar.. this does mean that it's not dragged up my legs on the way up.. will have to get some more vid!
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    hm, bumbles, you give me pause for my DL. I was setting up like that until I had a session with a PT who also competes. He pointed out that when I set up like that because of my height, my shoulders were way forward of the bar, so got me to just put my toes (about 3") under the bar.. this does mean that it's not dragged up my legs on the way up.. will have to get some more vid!

    I would need to see this to offer an opinion, but shoulders are supposed to be forward of the bar at the start. He was probably right about the toes out thing--depending on the length of your legs, you might have to point the toes out more to allow the bar to clear the knees while maintaining a straight bar path. You do need to drag the bar up your legs, though; if he didn't have you do that, he either doesn't know how to coach or he doesn't know how to deadlift (having seen many PTs in action at my gym, I could believe either possibility).
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    Thank you for the help!

    The squat video is taken from the back because the hip shifting problem is only visible from the back, and because it was the primary thing I was trying to work on, I really wanted to focus on it, but I will try to get something from the side next time I lift.

    I posted some tips earlier in this thread for filming a form video for squats--ideally, one can see toes and head and the entire bar, not just the middle (it's hard to tell what the bar path looks like otherwise).

    Your asymmetrical issue: these things can resolve themselves through persistent symmetrical training, actually. Your weak side will eventually catch up to your stronger side, provided you consciously focus on keeping everything even. It is possible, however, that you have an anatomical asymmetry, such as a leg length discrepancy, which would need to be diagnosed by someone who can measure it. And then you can try shimming your shorter leg for squats and deads.
    Question about the OHP tips--they mostly make sense in regards to moving my head more and the bar less, and straightening my wrists, but I'm a little confused by "pushing your elbows forward of the bar".

    You are creating a moment arm between the bar and your shoulder joint and your wrists right now. Your elbow should be slightly forward of the bar at the beginning of the lift; this allows you to push the bar up to where it ends up over your shoulder joint early on. Lean back slightly at the beginning, move the bar closer to your throat, and try to keep the wrists straight for maximum efficiency.
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    ok.. today's woes...

    all advice welcomed! at least my trousers had a helpful stripe down so I could see parallel!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCFJ2SFp_Fs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlQI-5iRjXg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJne16mqDc

    personal observations.. I think I sorted out squat depth, chest looks better than the other day but still think knees are coming forward a bit far. must invest in a TUBOW!

    OHP is just a mess..

    Deadlift I think legs are coming up before the rest of me, a bit of a scissor motion.

    *sigh*
  • Fittreelol
    Fittreelol Posts: 2,535 Member
    ok.. today's woes...

    all advice welcomed! at least my trousers had a helpful stripe down so I could see parallel!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCFJ2SFp_Fs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlQI-5iRjXg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJne16mqDc

    personal observations.. I think I sorted out squat depth, chest looks better than the other day but still think knees are coming forward a bit far. must invest in a TUBOW!


    OHP is just a mess..

    Deadlift I think legs are coming up before the rest of me, a bit of a scissor motion.

    *sigh*

    Your butt is coming up first in deadlifts and squats. I can't really see enough to gauge anything else.
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    ok.. today's woes...

    all advice welcomed! at least my trousers had a helpful stripe down so I could see parallel!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCFJ2SFp_Fs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlQI-5iRjXg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAJne16mqDc

    personal observations.. I think I sorted out squat depth, chest looks better than the other day but still think knees are coming forward a bit far. must invest in a TUBOW!

    OHP is just a mess..

    Deadlift I think legs are coming up before the rest of me, a bit of a scissor motion.

    *sigh*

    The fourth OHP rep was pretty decent, actually--watch the bar path again. In the other reps, the bar is too far back. I think especially so in the fifth rep. I would lean back slightly at the beginning of each rep and whip your head and shoulders under the bar once it clears your face, instead of allowing your arms to swing up and back to lock out. Does that make sense?

    Squats: getting there, I think! Depth looks good. I can't tell what your knees are doing, but I would point the feet out a bit more and shove the knees hard out at the bottom. Right now they look like they are pointing forward, which will allow them to cave in. Once you start focusing on shoving the knees out, you will be forced to use the hamstrings and adductors to come out of the hole, and that is the holy grail of the low bar squat. You can actually do this without TUBOW--just watch your knees out of the corner of your eye when you are at the bottom of the squat; try to almost get them to be slightly outside your toes. You won't manage to do it, but it will be a helpful cue to get the right anatomical focus.

    Deads: I'll have to re-watch them a few more times. But I basically agree with Fittreelol's analysis here. Your butt shoots up to the position it should be in at the beginning. You are one long-legged mama! Your butt will be a lot higher in the starting position than that of someone with shorter legs and longer arms.

    Here is a useful article about anthropometry and how to diagnose whether your proportions will allow you to use "standard setup". When you bend down to pick up the bar, you look a bit like the long-legged woman on p. 6 to me--it's not so much about the length of legs in this case as about the legs to arms to torso ratio.

    http://lonkilgore.com/Measure_of_a_Man.pdf

    But to be sure, I would like to see a different angle. Can you get a vid of your deadlift set-up from a side angle and a 45 front angle? I would like to see where your shins are with respect to the bar when you set up.
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    interesting. I don't think I've got such long legs as her! took a couple of pics (apologies in advance for lack of helpful lighting or clothing) that I think show I may have a longer -torso- (elbow is a good couple of inches above the navel). Not sure about the legs or how to go about measuring them in relation to my head lol..

    VIDEO0143_0000010099.jpg
    VIDEO0143_0000013116.jpg

    re the OHPs, I've been trying the 'layback' as per SS (the whole book seems to have downloaded not just the squat chapter!) but not sure I'm succeeding.. the most helpful thing has been shoulders back/chest out to start with, which really helps the bar start in a better place. Lock-out at the top is something I don't think I was really doing before so consciously trying to get that, but that flipping bar path is the first challenge - maybe whip the hips forward would be a better cue for me..?

    I like the idea of trying to push the knees outside the feet at the bottom, that is something that I think my body would make sense of (like 'straight bar path') and make a few things come together. I've gone from a rather wide stance to a shoulder-width one, so will try slightly wider/slightly more turned out toes and see how that helps.

    Re deads - I see what you mean! maybe I need to push my butt back up after setting position before the pull.. I'll get some more from different angles too, I was too irritated today to do any more!
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    interesting. I don't think I've got such long legs as her! took a couple of pics (apologies in advance for lack of helpful lighting or clothing) that I think show I may have a longer -torso- (elbow is a good couple of inches above the navel). Not sure about the legs or how to go about measuring them in relation to my head lol..

    VIDEO0143_0000010099.jpg
    VIDEO0143_0000013116.jpg

    Yeah, I didn't think so from watching your previous videos, either. I think I imagined this; could be because of the angle of the vid (makes your back look flatter when you grab the bar than it really is). The pic makes it clear that your arms are actually pretty long, based on where your hands are when you stand straight.

    It's really more important to watch for the problem that Fittreelol pointed out--when your butt shoots up into the air ahead of the bar, it means that your torso angle is too vertical at the start, and that you are using energy inefficiently so the lift feels heavier than it should. The bar might be too far forward, too--put it closer to your shins at the beginning and try not to roll it when you pick it up.
    re the OHPs, I've been trying the 'layback' as per SS (the whole book seems to have downloaded not just the squat chapter!) but not sure I'm succeeding.. the most helpful thing has been shoulders back/chest out to start with, which really helps the bar start in a better place. Lock-out at the top is something I don't think I was really doing before so consciously trying to get that, but that flipping bar path is the first challenge - maybe whip the hips forward would be a better cue for me..?

    The press is a mechanical nightmare for tall people. There are two ways to go about fixing it: sweating the details and focusing on the big picture. The big picture is that you want your bar path to be vertical. Watch the vid again and look especially at your third rep--that's the one where the bar just gets away from you once you get under it. Actually, now that I'm rewatching the OHP vid, the first two reps look good to me, too.
    I like the idea of trying to push the knees outside the feet at the bottom, that is something that I think my body would make sense of (like 'straight bar path') and make a few things come together. I've gone from a rather wide stance to a shoulder-width one, so will try slightly wider/slightly more turned out toes and see how that helps.

    A shoulder-width stance with toes out works for most people, supposedly. Knees out helps with a lot of problems--including the knee slide and the lack of hip drive.
    Re deads - I see what you mean! maybe I need to push my butt back up after setting position before the pull.. I'll get some more from different angles too, I was too irritated today to do any more!

    Yeah--about those... since you are lifting in new shoes, you might have to re-tweak certain aspects of that lift. Like where the bar needs to be in order to be positioned over your mid-foot. And I struggle with a similar problem with back angle, too. Definitely get some different views--a side view will tell you (among other things) whether you are getting your scapulae over the bar at the beginning, and a front/angle view will answer the question of whether the bar is over your mid-foot.
  • hnsaunde
    hnsaunde Posts: 757 Member
    Hi All,

    I'm another lurker, but I did some squat form check videos last night that I was hoping to get opinions on.

    1 set of 6 reps @ 135 pounds. This is a challenging weight for me, but not close to my 5 RM.

    http://youtu.be/ZgkbaT7mnSY

    1 set of 5 reps @ 170 pounds. This is my 5 RM, and there are definitely some form issues here.

    http://youtu.be/6dhU117ZwZM

    For those of you in both groups, I'm also posting this in the Eat, Train, Progress form check videos section as well. I'm trying to take advantage of all my resources to get the most feedback.

    Thanks in advance!
  • Mikej77
    Mikej77 Posts: 112
    I think you are pretty much flawless with your form, only thing I would suggest is to lower your head a little more, instead of looking up, from what I have read you want your neck in a more neutral position aligned with the angle of your back. I want to say you want to find a spot on the wall that is a little lower then eye level. If this is incorrect then I apologize, that is the only thing I can advise on.
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    Hi All,

    I'm another lurker, but I did some squat form check videos last night that I was hoping to get opinions on.

    1 set of 6 reps @ 135 pounds. This is a challenging weight for me, but not close to my 5 RM.

    http://youtu.be/ZgkbaT7mnSY

    1 set of 5 reps @ 170 pounds. This is my 5 RM, and there are definitely some form issues here.

    http://youtu.be/6dhU117ZwZM

    For those of you in both groups, I'm also posting this in the Eat, Train, Progress form check videos section as well. I'm trying to take advantage of all my resources to get the most feedback.

    Thanks in advance!

    The first set looked pretty good to me--your stance is a touch wider than shoulder width, but if nothing hurts and it feels comfortable, don't mess with it. You are a bit shy of depth in most of your reps in the 5RM video--something to keep an eye on.
  • hnsaunde
    hnsaunde Posts: 757 Member
    Thanks to both of you for the help!

    That's a good point about me looking up, I started doing that because I noticed I was looking at the ground when I placed my feet, and I would keep looking at the ground, which rounded my back. Now I'm doing the opposite, so I need to find some middle ground there.

    I thought I wasn't going low enough on the 5 RM, and I'm going to scale back the weight a a bit. I think 170 is just out of my reach for now, since I can do it at 165 (it's not easy, but I can hit depth there).

    Thanks again!
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    Thanks to both of you for the help!

    That's a good point about me looking up, I started doing that because I noticed I was looking at the ground when I placed my feet, and I would keep looking at the ground, which rounded my back. Now I'm doing the opposite, so I need to find some middle ground there.

    I thought I wasn't going low enough on the 5 RM, and I'm going to scale back the weight a a bit. I think 170 is just out of my reach for now, since I can do it at 165 (it's not easy, but I can hit depth there).

    Thanks again!

    I would try again next week with the same weight and pay more attention to depth. What sort of program are you following right now, still linear or something more complicated? You mentioned 5RM so I assume the latter?
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    My 40kg second set from yesterday.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpck...e_gdata_player
    depth is better, chest is getting there!
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    My 40kg second set from yesterday.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpck...e_gdata_player
    depth is better, chest is getting there!

    You already know what I think :) But I'll say it again for the benefit of the others: this is a good squat, with just one thing that I would suggest working on (since it relates to your earlier knee slide issue): break at the knees and at the hips simultaneously rather than breaking at the hips first. This will help you get the knees in position early in the movement.
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    thank you yes I thought it was worth the double post!
  • hnsaunde
    hnsaunde Posts: 757 Member
    Thanks to both of you for the help!

    That's a good point about me looking up, I started doing that because I noticed I was looking at the ground when I placed my feet, and I would keep looking at the ground, which rounded my back. Now I'm doing the opposite, so I need to find some middle ground there.

    I thought I wasn't going low enough on the 5 RM, and I'm going to scale back the weight a a bit. I think 170 is just out of my reach for now, since I can do it at 165 (it's not easy, but I can hit depth there).

    Thanks again!

    I would try again next week with the same weight and pay more attention to depth. What sort of program are you following right now, still linear or something more complicated? You mentioned 5RM so I assume the latter?

    Ok, I tried again, but my sets looked closer to 4, 3, 3, 4, 3 when I concentrated more on my depth, and I definitely did the good mornings when I changed direction.

    I'm following Stronglifts for my program, so I'm going to try that weight again once more, and then deload if need be. Thanks again!
  • bumblebums
    bumblebums Posts: 2,181 Member
    Thanks to both of you for the help!

    That's a good point about me looking up, I started doing that because I noticed I was looking at the ground when I placed my feet, and I would keep looking at the ground, which rounded my back. Now I'm doing the opposite, so I need to find some middle ground there.

    I thought I wasn't going low enough on the 5 RM, and I'm going to scale back the weight a a bit. I think 170 is just out of my reach for now, since I can do it at 165 (it's not easy, but I can hit depth there).

    Thanks again!

    I would try again next week with the same weight and pay more attention to depth. What sort of program are you following right now, still linear or something more complicated? You mentioned 5RM so I assume the latter?

    Ok, I tried again, but my sets looked closer to 4, 3, 3, 4, 3 when I concentrated more on my depth, and I definitely did the good mornings when I changed direction.

    I'm following Stronglifts for my program, so I'm going to try that weight again once more, and then deload if need be. Thanks again!

    I would die if I did those weights at that volume :) I worked with three sets of five for all of my lifts while I was on a linear program. I did five sets of five at the very beginning, but the gains petered out pretty fast and recovery became a major issue. But you're a lot younger than me, so you might be able to take it for longer.
  • hnsaunde
    hnsaunde Posts: 757 Member
    Thanks to both of you for the help!

    That's a good point about me looking up, I started doing that because I noticed I was looking at the ground when I placed my feet, and I would keep looking at the ground, which rounded my back. Now I'm doing the opposite, so I need to find some middle ground there.

    I thought I wasn't going low enough on the 5 RM, and I'm going to scale back the weight a a bit. I think 170 is just out of my reach for now, since I can do it at 165 (it's not easy, but I can hit depth there).

    Thanks again!

    I would try again next week with the same weight and pay more attention to depth. What sort of program are you following right now, still linear or something more complicated? You mentioned 5RM so I assume the latter?

    Ok, I tried again, but my sets looked closer to 4, 3, 3, 4, 3 when I concentrated more on my depth, and I definitely did the good mornings when I changed direction.

    I'm following Stronglifts for my program, so I'm going to try that weight again once more, and then deload if need be. Thanks again!

    I would die if I did those weights at that volume :) I worked with three sets of five for all of my lifts while I was on a linear program. I did five sets of five at the very beginning, but the gains petered out pretty fast and recovery became a major issue. But you're a lot younger than me, so you might be able to take it for longer.

    Lol I'm running into a similar problem right now. I think I'm close to maxing out on all of my lifts except for my deadlifts, so I'm probably going to switch programs in a month or so. I'm thinking of trying the Wendlers one I keep reading about.
  • ssaraj43
    ssaraj43 Posts: 575 Member
    Hi,
    My name is Sara. This is the first video I have posted on the internet. Hope it comes out.

    I am on week four of Stronglifts and would like to know how I am doing with the squat.

    New to this type of lifting so I really appreciate some advice.

    http://youtu.be/5b2zzQHFg7M

    It is the third of a working set because it took us that long to figure out how to video :blushing:

    Thank you!!!
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Hi Sara - overall I think your form looks pretty good. You have a very exaggerated foot angle - it looks from the camera angle that it's >45 degrees. It's not a crime but 30 degrees (our less) will be more optimal. I'd be curious to see how you'd do if you turn those feet in a little.
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    Are you using thumbless grip? Your wrists look like it is a really awkward angle. Also I would get in the habit of picking up the bar in a squat position not a split one, it is ok this light but will become more unbalanced..
  • ssaraj43
    ssaraj43 Posts: 575 Member
    Thank you ladies for the feed back.

    @leadfoot- I angle my feet out more than 30 because my knees seem to like this track better and don't slide in. I didn't think it was greater than 45 though. Thanks for pointing it out. Will try to bring them in a little tomorrow. I am an over-pronator so not sure if that causes some out-toeing for me. I haven't been told I walk like a duck for a long time: :-)

    @lwoodroff- Yes,thumbless grip. Looking at the video now it does look really awkward. Maybe I'm not feeling it yet because I'm only at 95 lbs. . I'm a massage therapist so I always have trouble with everything elbow down. I will try to get my thumbs more on top of the bar tomorrow. As of tomorrow i will always un-rack in a squat position.

    Thanks again ladies :flowerforyou: More lifts to come...
  • gemheath2010
    gemheath2010 Posts: 68 Member
    Finally managed to get someone to film me today - I wanted to check that my squats look ok if someone wouldn't mind giving it the once over - he didn't get my feet I'm which is a bit annoying but hopefully this will be enough to be able to see if my form is ok

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBg7p4XwL5k&sns=em

    Thanks
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    Feet show in the setup, look ok to me. Depth is good but you don't look very tight. Before each rep, take a big breath and tighten everything especially your core. They were really quick, didn't look very heavy for you. :-) I'm sure someone more expert will have some more comments!
  • gemheath2010
    gemheath2010 Posts: 68 Member
    Thank you :0) it was actually a personal best for me and I did struggle somewhat towards the end - it did feel as though I was moving about throughout the squat so I will defo take that on board - I'm just pleased they don't look to bad compared to what they were like lol
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Watched it a couple times and here's my $.02 - What you're doing is a high bar squat but with a low bar squat back position. The barbell should be over the middle of your foot throughout the entire lift. Yours is almost towards the front of your foot because your back is bent too far over for a high bar squat. If you have the shoulder flexibility to do so, move that bar down just below the spine of your scapula (the shoulder blade bone) and see what happens. The weight of the barbell will then be more evenly distributed so that the barbell travels in the correct path (over the mid-foot). If you want to continue or due to shoulder flexibility have to continue to do high bar squats, your back needs to be a lot more vertical than it is.
  • gemheath2010
    gemheath2010 Posts: 68 Member
    Oh gosh I thought I was doing a low barbell position but now watching it again I can see quite clearly that it seems to have worked its way up. Ok I'm going to seriously work on this. My husband said that he thought I was to far forward but we weren't sure how to correct it
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    Tried to post a couple of pictures but I couldn't figure it out so check out this site:

    http://nicktumminello.com/2012/05/back-squats-whats-the-best-bar-placement-high-bar-vs-low-bar-position/

    It gives you a visual for what I was trying to explain about high vs low squats and bar position on your back.
  • gemheath2010
    gemheath2010 Posts: 68 Member
    Tried to post a couple of pictures but I couldn't figure it out so check out this site:

    http://nicktumminello.com/2012/05/back-squats-whats-the-best-bar-placement-high-bar-vs-low-bar-position/

    It gives you a visual for what I was trying to explain about high vs low squats and bar position on your back.

    ok great thank you
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