"Muscle Burns Fat"
southpaw211
Posts: 385 Member
I'm going to preface my question by acknowledging that I am aware that you can't build muscle when eating at a deficit, and that to preserve muscle while trying to lose fat/weight, you should make sure you're eating adequate proteins and hitting your macros.
Having said that, I'm currently in my second round of the Beachbody program "Chalean Extreme" which is circuit training with dumb bells (I don't have access to barbells at the moment). The instructor pushes for lifting heavy weights, reaching failure between 10-12 reps, except for the middle phase where she pushes heavier weights with failure at 6-8 reps. I had decent results from the program so I'm doing it again.
One mantra she constantly rehashes throughout the program is "we lift heavy because muscle burns fat." I'm eating at a deficit (around 400 calories per day) and trying to hit my protein targets so that I'm burning more fat than muscle, trying to retain as much LBM as possible. I've definitely had strength gains as I'm able to lift quite a few pounds more in each exercise than I was in the first round, and my muscles are more defined as I've shed a bit of fat.
If my muscles aren't growing, but are getting stronger, are they burning more fat? Or can you only increase fat burning by increasing muscle mass?
Having said that, I'm currently in my second round of the Beachbody program "Chalean Extreme" which is circuit training with dumb bells (I don't have access to barbells at the moment). The instructor pushes for lifting heavy weights, reaching failure between 10-12 reps, except for the middle phase where she pushes heavier weights with failure at 6-8 reps. I had decent results from the program so I'm doing it again.
One mantra she constantly rehashes throughout the program is "we lift heavy because muscle burns fat." I'm eating at a deficit (around 400 calories per day) and trying to hit my protein targets so that I'm burning more fat than muscle, trying to retain as much LBM as possible. I've definitely had strength gains as I'm able to lift quite a few pounds more in each exercise than I was in the first round, and my muscles are more defined as I've shed a bit of fat.
If my muscles aren't growing, but are getting stronger, are they burning more fat? Or can you only increase fat burning by increasing muscle mass?
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More knowledgable posters feel free to correct me, but as I understand it, maintaining muscle requires energy, fat is stored energy.
Muscle mass does not 'burn fat' - it takes more calories to maintain. If you are eating at a deficit those calories might come from your bodies fat reserves, they will also come from whatever food you eat that day.0 -
It's hard to say "muscle will indirectly burn fat someday if you retain sufficient lean body mass during a caloric deficit" in time to the music.0
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Muscle mass does not 'burn fat' - it takes more calories to maintain.
^ This, and you'll see quite hefty variance in claims of how many calories are burned per additional lb of muscle. If I recall correctly, Lyle pegs it around 6 calories per lb. So for example, if you can manage to gain 20lbs of muscle (which is a LOT) you're looking at an additional 120 calories of energy expenditure.
See here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html0 -
Interesting article - thanks.0
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I think the other part of the confusion on how much energy does it take, do you count the glucose and water stored in the muscle, and the energy needs to maintain balance with that whole mass?
Or somehow figure out how to separate just the muscle?
But since muscle isn't the only thing that takes energy unless you are really using it greatly, seems like the LBM aspect would be more complete.
I know it doesn't answer the muscle mass energy needs part of the question, but it is interesting the RMR and BMR formula's based on LBM which includes the muscle would be:
Cunningham RMR = LBM x 22 + 500
So to that example of 20 extra lbs of muscle contributing to LBM, and pretend no additional blood volume or glucose with water with that muscle.
140 lb LBM - 3580
160 lb LBM - 4020
So about 440 more calories for the body to provide energy for it resting all day long.
Or of course 22 cal per lb.
BMR tad lower of course since you do spend maybe 1/3 of the day sleeping.
Katch BMR = LBM x 21.6 + 370
I'm sure in that circuit type training program, there's more chance of gaining LBM comprised of glucose and water, rather than muscle.
And it just doesn't sound the same to be shouting "let's store some sugar and water, because that burns fat all day long!". ;-)0 -
Muscle mass does not 'burn fat' - it takes more calories to maintain.
^ This, and you'll see quite hefty variance in claims of how many calories are burned per additional lb of muscle. If I recall correctly, Lyle pegs it around 6 calories per lb. So for example, if you can manage to gain 20lbs of muscle (which is a LOT) you're looking at an additional 120 calories of energy expenditure.
See here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dissecting-the-energy-needs-of-the-body-research-review.html
^^ This ALSO....
According to our Physiology class (which I took a long time ago): You improve strength by:
1. Hypertrophy of muscles - this is what most people mean by "gaining muscle"
2. Improved recruitment of muscle fibers to do a repeated (practiced) movement
3. Improved facilitation and inhibition of muscle groups thereby increasing efficiency
Given this and what you said about "gaining strength"... It follows you are either doing #2 or your technique has improved (# 3). AND if I remember right, as long as you have enough protein as bulding blocks, hypertrophy can occur as hypertrophy is caused by exercise. So, you may also be doing #1 which in layman's term means "gaining muscle" (on a deficit) gasp!
:flowerforyou:
PSS: Most of caloric burn during weight lifting is in "making new muscle(hypertrophy)" not in muscle maintenance... your kidneys probly burn more than both your hamstrings at rest...0 -
Wow, this is really great information - thanks so much for the thoughtful replies. I've got the article up to read after I post here. It's almost worse to start to understand how calorie expenditure/fat burn works, as now I'm prone to question blanket statements (i.e., muscle burns fat!) and I now need to get down to what that REALLY means, other than just being the fitness slogan du jour.
Thanks again - I love the knowledge in this group.
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Wow, this is really great information - thanks so much for the thoughtful replies. I've got the article up to read after I post here. It's almost worse to start to understand how calorie expenditure/fat burn works, as now I'm prone to question blanket statements (i.e., muscle burns fat!) and I now need to get down to what that REALLY means, other than just being the fitness slogan du jour.
Thanks again - I love the knowledge in this group.
Spin instructor does the same thing, using phrases that are pretty specific, and incorrect, and from talking later about many things you can tell he knows that too, but he's been using the phrases longer than he got correct info - it sticks and sounds inspiring.
Just don't question in front of the full class! :noway:0 -
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The phrase "muscle burns fat" came about when people were explaining how building muscle first would cause your resting metabolism to rise (allowing you to more easily drop fat later). Running at an excessive calorie deficit (i.e., extreme dieting) and losing muscle mass, while great on the scale is not great for body composition.
As noted above, it is a fallacy that you cannot add muscle while in a calorie deficit (provided the deficit is not too high). As long as your body is able to use your stored fat for energy and is getting sufficient protein and you're on a progressive hypertrophy weight program, you can add muscle mass. It won't be optimized (which is what most body builders want), but it can be done.0 -
Adding muscle tissue requires the proper hormonal states and metabolic pathways to be available. Evolutionarily-speaking, it doesn't make sense for your body to allow that state to obtain when it's already having to dip into fat reserves to supply energy to cover daily activities of living. It makes sense that your body will use the stimulus of hard training to allow preservation of existing muscle mass, since a decrease in available muscle might lead to a decreased ability to acquire food or avoid becoming prey for something else.As noted above, it is a fallacy that you cannot add muscle while in a calorie deficit (provided the deficit is not too high). As long as your body is able to use your stored fat for energy and is getting sufficient protein and you're on a progressive hypertrophy weight program, you can add muscle mass. It won't be optimized (which is what most body builders want), but it can be done.
For most of human history, fat stores have been too precious to sacrifice for turning into muscle which will, in turn, demand more calories to maintain it.
As I'm sure you know, you don't have to add muscle mass to gain strength.
ETA: I had a DEXA scan 6 weeks ago, so when it's been 6 months, I will retest and we shall see what happens to muscle mass given 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, 2-4 heavy weight training sessions per week and an average deficit of 300-400 calories a day. I would love to be proven wrong and have gained a few pounds of muscle, but I will be satisfied with maintaining what I had.0 -
The phrase "muscle burns fat" came about when people were explaining how building muscle first would cause your resting metabolism to rise (allowing you to more easily drop fat later). Running at an excessive calorie deficit (i.e., extreme dieting) and losing muscle mass, while great on the scale is not great for body composition.
As noted above, it is a fallacy that you cannot add muscle while in a calorie deficit (provided the deficit is not too high). As long as your body is able to use your stored fat for energy and is getting sufficient protein and you're on a progressive hypertrophy weight program, you can add muscle mass. It won't be optimized (which is what most body builders want), but it can be done.
In general, you cannot add muscle unless you are significantly overweight or new to lifting. The amount you can gain at a given BF level or 'newness' to training is very dependent on age, training routine, deficit, macros, genetics and most significantly gender.0
