Your body fat percentage, your feelings about it.
SideSteel
Posts: 11,068 Member
I'm only posting this because I've experienced this myself and also noticed a trend via PM's and occasionally in the threads.
What seems to happen is this: You get the idea in your head that you're probably X% body fat. You post in a PM to me, or to Sara, or in the estimation thread to get an estimate on your body fat. We estimate you at X+5% for example.
You then feel upset. You may even change your outlook on things and in some extreme cases it may even effect your self image.
Me posting this may not help anyone -- who knows.... but the point of this is that whatever we estimate you at, or whatever the calipers tell you, or whatever the Bod Pod tells you, doesn't change anything.
You are still the same you regardless of what the number says, and I would argue that for most people in most contexts (outside of major perception issues/BDD type things) your satisfaction about how you look in the mirror, and your goals, should be primary factors in determining your diet and exercise strategies and I don't see that changing based on a body fat estimation, most of the time.
What seems to happen is this: You get the idea in your head that you're probably X% body fat. You post in a PM to me, or to Sara, or in the estimation thread to get an estimate on your body fat. We estimate you at X+5% for example.
You then feel upset. You may even change your outlook on things and in some extreme cases it may even effect your self image.
Me posting this may not help anyone -- who knows.... but the point of this is that whatever we estimate you at, or whatever the calipers tell you, or whatever the Bod Pod tells you, doesn't change anything.
You are still the same you regardless of what the number says, and I would argue that for most people in most contexts (outside of major perception issues/BDD type things) your satisfaction about how you look in the mirror, and your goals, should be primary factors in determining your diet and exercise strategies and I don't see that changing based on a body fat estimation, most of the time.
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I am A LONG ways away from even having to think about this really...
But I quit the scale...
I focus on being able to run that mile faster..
Running 30 minutes instead of 20
Riding my bike farther
Swimming farther
I find that this is a lot more enjoyable if I quit freaking out about numbers so much...0 -
Tagging to add what will probably be superfluous to the OP when not on my phone!0
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The same can be said for most numbers... It's just a damn number. There's better things to worry about. xoxo0
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so so true SS..
The scale is the first number we go to and at some point we rightly tire of that .
We have this need to quantify our progress and think we are getting better by moving past the scale to the more noble "BF%" but in many cases (myself included). We are just replacing one number with another
The move to mirror satisfaction and aesthetics is a difficult one because so many of us were big time overweight and have very very poor self image
We automatically think we are weak or ugly and lean on the number as quantifiable proof that we have made progress
getting fitter is about a number , its about being able to do more, for longer periods of duration and for a healthier life with those you love and love you
now if I could only get this into my thick skull
ive replaced the scale with 5k time.. and that's not too good either . as it gets harder to lower that time
I have to remember. that 12 months ago.. running three miles was a pipedream
that's the kind of change and smiles that go far beyond a simple number0 -
The same can be said for most numbers... It's just a damn number. There's better things to worry about. xoxo
Yup.0 -
Thanks
I've never had my BF measured and don't plan on it. When I visually see more muscle than fat I will be happy. Not there but almost.0 -
To respond seriously though, I've always thought of my BF% as 'high' and my goal BF% as 'lower than it is now'. Makes it lot easier when you judgemental meanies tell my I'm at whatever % I'm at.
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP though. If you think you're 15% or 25%, it makes no difference if you're actually 20%.0 -
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Good post, would bang/lick/marry 10/10.
I agree completely, it can be a tough pill to swallow but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Having accurate information is never a bad thing.0 -
While I agree it's just another number, I think it is one of the few numbers that actually matter. At first it can be discouraging (maybe even slightly devastating) like it was for me, but you can either let it define you and stay discouraged or you can decide to see what you can do about improving it. Like everything negative in this world, you decide how it affects you.0
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I cried after I received my DEXA bf% estimate. I laugh about it now. I am choosing to blame my lady hormones. Stupid lady hormones...
While I think a bf% goal may be better than an arbitrary weight goal, I see this becoming problematic for people as well. What is considered a healthy bf% (one below the point where evidence suggests increased health risks) is way higher than what it seems most people think (particularly when adjusting for age AND/OR fat distribution). It is so easy to get too wrapped up in any kind of arbitrary goal.
So, not only is a more accurate estimate useful SO IS more information regarding healthy goals. Vanity goals are fine, but too often people will proclaim their arbitrary vanity goal as being "healthier" than another when there is no evidence to support the claim. I think there is a wider range of healthy body fat goals than most people realize and it is really helpful to keep things in perspective. In other words, no crying after you get your average bf% estimate and it falls within the very healthy range but isn't as low as the vanity goal arbitrarily set by those around you on MFP just because you've got a lot of "junk in your trunk" .
On my DEXA report (from my doctor) the following information is given. I'll bet many people will be shocked by these ranges.
"Health Standards represent the percentage of body fat that generally does not increase your risks for health problems."
Health Standards
Men <40 8-22%
Men >40 10-25%
Women <40 20-35%
Women >40 25-38%
Fat distribution matters as well, so one would want to look at Android (trunk fat) Gynoid (lower body fat) ratio and not JUST average bf.0 -
First Dexa Scan
Expectation: 30 % bf, Reality: 37.5 % bf
Second Dexa Scan ( Mind you, this time i did all the math and was "sure" about my bf%)
Expectation: 23 % bf, Reality: 28% bf
:brokenheart:
What do i say ? I am amazing at deceiving myself. Its a gift.
So yea i wholeheartedly agree with the Op0 -
i am at the other extreme..i really do not care about my BF% and have not even had it measured until now. I am not aspiring for a great hot body or planning to rock a bikini, because honestly i do not wear a bikini nor do i know to swim :laugh:
My goal is to be at a place when i actually am happy/satisfied with what i see in the mirror and photos, be able to wear some nice fancy clothes without feeling uncomfortable or having to tuck my stomach in and walk around looking like i could blow up any minute! Also, i would like to keep my metabolism running high, so that i can eat all the foodz, exercise and stay the same way forever(a girl can wish right)
Yeah, thats about it :laugh:0 -
I would have my bf% tested in a scientific manner such as a dexa scan or having my husband test it with hydrostatic weighing (he is a physicist). I wouldn't ask people on the internet to determine it based on photographs. I'm just not sure how that is possible.0
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I would have my bf% tested in a scientific manner. I wouldn't ask people on the internet to determine it based on photographs. I'm just not sure how that is possible.
No scientific manner is accurate and 'eyeballing' is often more accurate.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/830595-body-fat-estimation-methods
ETA: also, it does not change the point of the OP. Does it change your plans? Should it change how you see yourself in the mirror?0 -
I would have my bf% tested in a scientific manner. I wouldn't ask people on the internet to determine it based on photographs. I'm just not sure how that is possible.
No scientific manner is accurate and 'eyeballing' is often more accurate.
^ This.0 -
I'm not trying to criticize. And I completely understand that the scientific measures are not fully accurate either. I would just think you would need to see a person in real life to eyeball and it's based on opinion. I'm just trying to understand (but perhaps I don't know enough about this method or I simply don't trust others enough). But, no it wouldn't change how I feel about myself. I honestly don't care what my bf% is. I care how I look and feel (and even then, I don't even care that much).0
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I'm not trying to criticize. And I completely understand that the scientific measures are not fully accurate either. I would just think you would need to see a person in real life to eyeball and it's based on opinion. I'm just trying to understand (but perhaps I don't know enough about this method or I simply don't trust others enough). But, no it wouldn't change how I feel about myself. I honestly don't care what my bf% is. I care how I look and feel (and even then, I don't even care that much).
And that is the point of the OP.0 -
I'm not trying to criticize. And I completely understand that the scientific measures are not fully accurate either. I would just think you would need to see a person in real life to eyeball and it's based on opinion. I'm just trying to understand (but perhaps I don't know enough about this method or I simply don't trust others enough). But, no it wouldn't change how I feel about myself. I honestly don't care what my bf% is. I care how I look and feel (and even then, I don't even care that much).
And that is the point of the OP.
Yeah, I agree with it! It is a good point!!!0 -
True story: I had a dexa scan that confirmed a very lean bodyfat level for a woman. It truly didn't make my life one bit better or solve any problems or make me feel better about myself. I was clearly very lean and now I had a number to put on it. Then I busted my *kitten* and overtime saw changes in my body that were noticed not only by me, but by family members, friends, perfect strangers.
I thought I should get another scan done over a year after the first...I wondered how much muscle I had gained. So I went, but I had to go to a different place because the place I got my original scan at was no more. I had it done and low and behold!! The numbers came out different and showed a slightly higher bf% (definitely within a margin of error) and a slightly lower lean mass!!! This is after over a year of progressive heavy lifting, veins all over my body, an increase in muscular definition that is noticeable by anyone looking. I couldn't help but feel a little disconcerted.
Once I had time to digest it, I came to the conclusion that the differences in my body over time are probably not going to be measurable, especially not by different machines with different calibrations- there is still a margin of error and these changes, while visually noticeable (I didn't start with much bodyfat to begin with), are just not easily measurable. The dexa operator did tell me that the numbers the scan puts out tend to be 5-7 percentage points higher than other methods like calipers.
So the moral to my story is, don't let numbers rule how you feel. And...when people throw out bodyfat percent numbers, they are often VERY underestimated and they are most definitely not very accurate.0 -
I care, but only from a stats point of view. I don't take it to heart. For me, I was prepared for the number and ready to move forward. I've literally spent 6 years doing minimal physical activity until the past 4 months. I've got a long road and I'm thankful for this board. You're right, no reason to take it too seriously. :flowerforyou:0
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True story: I had a dexa scan that confirmed a very lean bodyfat level for a woman. It truly didn't make my life one bit better or solve any problems or make me feel better about myself. I was clearly very lean and now I had a number to put on it. Then I busted my *kitten* and overtime saw changes in my body that were noticed not only by me, but by family members, friends, perfect strangers.
I thought I should get another scan done over a year after the first...I wondered how much muscle I had gained. So I went, but I had to go to a different place because the place I got my original scan at was no more. I had it done and low and behold!! The numbers came out different and showed a slightly higher bf% (definitely within a margin of error) and a slightly lower lean mass!!! This is after over a year of progressive heavy lifting, veins all over my body, an increase in muscular definition that is noticeable by anyone looking. I couldn't help but feel a little disconcerted.
Once I had time to digest it, I came to the conclusion that the differences in my body over time are probably not going to be measurable, especially not by different machines with different calibrations- there is still a margin of error and these changes, while visually noticeable (I didn't start with much bodyfat to begin with), are just not easily measurable. The dexa operator did tell me that the numbers the scan puts out tend to be 5-7 percentage points higher than other methods like calipers.
So the moral to my story is, don't let numbers rule how you feel. And...when people throw out bodyfat percent numbers, they are often VERY underestimated and they are most definitely not very accurate.
^^I had an issue with a DEXA scan I had done last year. It was obviously very wrong. It's hard not to take it to heart a bit. Nowadays, I rely on eyeballing BF%, measurements, scale and what I see in the mirror as well as progress I am making in the gym - they do not tell the whole story individually, but combine to get a good gauge as to what is going on. For example, I am 'about' the same BF% as I was before my bulk. My measurements are lower by a decent amount (proportionately) but the scale is only down by 1lb. What that means specifically - who knows. But it does mean that I am leaner. When you get down to a few percentage points and a few lbs here and there, it is just too close (and not very meaningful) to pinpoint a number.
Also, what does it change? Will (should) you change your routine? Will it make you happier/unhappier with what you see in the mirror? Will your strength change? Will your clothes fit differently?...no....so, while it is natural/human nature to tend to hang a lot of importance on the number (I do it myself), it's not really meaningful in the scheme of things.
Another point to make is that it tells you nothing about BF distribution (as Prof Rat mentioned). From a health perspective, fat distribution is as important in some cases as your BF%. So is it from an aesthetics perspective. Personally, if I was told that I had to stay at a certain bf% forever, and had a choice between someone at say 22% BF% with a less preferable distribution for my personal tastes v someone at say 26% with a BF distribution that was more in line with my tastes re aesthetics - I would pic the 26% BF one.0 -
While I would like the idea of being a certain BF%; I go mostly by the what the mirror shows.
Yes I still weigh myself and take measurements every now and then, but my clothes and the mirror are my true reflection of progress.0 -
This is why I ignore body fat%. I use skinfold measurements as a a metric of progress, but I couldn't give less of a **** about whether it means 20% or 18%. Measurements are hard numbers and the best way to gauge progress in my opinion.0
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I cried after I received my DEXA bf% estimate. I laugh about it now. I am choosing to blame my lady hormones. Stupid lady hormones...
While I think a bf% goal may be better than an arbitrary weight goal, I see this becoming problematic for people as well. What is considered a healthy bf% (one below the point where evidence suggests increased health risks) is way higher than what it seems most people think (particularly when adjusting for age AND/OR fat distribution). It is so easy to get too wrapped up in any kind of arbitrary goal.
So, not only is a more accurate estimate useful SO IS more information regarding healthy goals. Vanity goals are fine, but too often people will proclaim their arbitrary vanity goal as being "healthier" than another when there is no evidence to support the claim. I think there is a wider range of healthy body fat goals than most people realize and it is really helpful to keep things in perspective. In other words, no crying after you get your average bf% estimate and it falls within the very healthy range but isn't as low as the vanity goal arbitrarily set by those around you on MFP just because you've got a lot of "junk in your trunk" .
On my DEXA report (from my doctor) the following information is given. I'll bet many people will be shocked by these ranges.
"Health Standards represent the percentage of body fat that generally does not increase your risks for health problems."
Health Standards
Men <40 8-22%
Men >40 10-25%
Women <40 20-35%
Women >40 25-38%
Fat distribution matters as well, so one would want to look at Android (trunk fat) Gynoid (lower body fat) ratio and not JUST average bf.
Slightly off topic, but does this mean a woman over 40 should not have a BF% under 25? That's news to me.0 -
Love this post. It demonstrates how important mental well being and self esteem is in this process. If internally you think "you're not quite good enough" then numbers, whether scale or BF%, have more power over the way you see yourself.0
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I'm a bit of a natural stats geek - so numbers and measurements always mean a lot to me!
Body fat percentage is important to me, so I know that when I add weight, it isn't just fat coming back. I cant rely on my estimates in the mirror - in my eyes I always look the same, no matter how I actually look. I went all the way from 78kg up to 100, and then back, without really looking any different in the mirror. (Of course, when I look at old photos I can see now - but I never noticed at the time!)
Maybe the actual precise percentage doesnt matter - and there is such a thing as too little fat too. But for me, its a really important guide (so your estimate made me happy!!)
The only bad thing about BF measurement is its so inaccurate - mine fluctuates from machine to machine (except the never changing caliper measurement)0 -
I'm a bit of a natural stats geek - so numbers and measurements always mean a lot to me!
Body fat percentage is important to me, so I know that when I add weight, it isn't just fat coming back. I cant rely on my estimates in the mirror - in my eyes I always look the same, no matter how I actually look.
Maybe the actual precise percentage doesnt matter - and there is such a thing as too little fat too. But for me, its a really important guide (so your estimate made me happy!!)
A confounding issue is that most body fat analysis methods have significant error in them.
I would argue that if you are doing things correctly (resistance training, appropriate caloric and macro intake, etc) then the scale can readily serve as a proxy for making progress in body fat reduction.0 -
How do I feel about it? I feel better this week about my bf% than I did last week, but not as good as I will feel about it next week. :bigsmile:
I'm confident I know mine within a +/-5% tolerance, but I have learned I just need to focus on doing the right thing consistently. I use the mirror, the tape measure and performance in the gym as more reliable measures, particularly while I am still >15%.
Funny how my standards of measure have changed actually. First I relied on the scale (for faaaaar too long!), then the holes on my belt, then the tape measure.0
