Really need some info and suggestions
tracieangeletti
Posts: 432 Member
Ok, let me start by saying that I really am very proud and happy with my progress so far but I seem to have hit a wall. I have not lost scale weight in months. Like over four + months. I am 125 lbs. I will drop down to 123 for a day or so and then back up to 125. I've been playing with the same 3 lbs for forever. I lift and spin. I'm trying to stay between 1700-1850 calories a day. I'm 5' 1 1/2" tall. Heybales spreadsheet gave me 1772 calories to eat. I am getting smaller, SLOWLY, but smaller. I have between 6-10 lbs to go.
My confusion comes in because if I'm not losing lbs but getting smaller I must be eating closer to maintenance because even though I'm lifting heavy I can't be adding muscle cuz I'm in a deficit. So I'm not sure what is really going on. Body recomp? Don't think I'm that lucky to have that be happening. Anyways, I would like to speed up the rate in which I'm losing because at this rate I might hit my goal by my 50th birthday!! Lol So that means dropping more calories which I don't want to do but will if I have to.
My concern is, that I was hoping that my maintenance level would be closer to 2000-2300 calories and not 1700-1800 calories. I can eat that way forever but I'm afraid that I will always feel like I'm eating on a restricted level. If I drop even more calories to lose will I be making the maintenance level worse and have to eat even less to maintain? Ideas? Suggestions? Should I just reevaluate my goals?
My confusion comes in because if I'm not losing lbs but getting smaller I must be eating closer to maintenance because even though I'm lifting heavy I can't be adding muscle cuz I'm in a deficit. So I'm not sure what is really going on. Body recomp? Don't think I'm that lucky to have that be happening. Anyways, I would like to speed up the rate in which I'm losing because at this rate I might hit my goal by my 50th birthday!! Lol So that means dropping more calories which I don't want to do but will if I have to.
My concern is, that I was hoping that my maintenance level would be closer to 2000-2300 calories and not 1700-1800 calories. I can eat that way forever but I'm afraid that I will always feel like I'm eating on a restricted level. If I drop even more calories to lose will I be making the maintenance level worse and have to eat even less to maintain? Ideas? Suggestions? Should I just reevaluate my goals?
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Replies
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Do the weigh in days follow rest days where you are still not sore from lifting, eating normal sodium levels?
Sounds like you are describing water weight changes of course, because when someone says spinning, I know that's big glucose burn, so lost water weight. Unless you keep to your own calm intensity to aid recovery from lifting.
Still should be losing overall, but if that much fluctuation, it means deficit may be too big for amount of exercise done.
So it may be the High cardio option isn't adding enough for that spin class, you are more intense and actually TDEE is higher.
That's stress of bigger deficit than needed.
What is the schedule for lifting and spinning, how much time for each? And if each on separate days, is the spinning intense using the same muscles trying to recovery from a lifting workout prior day?
That easily ends up just being stressful, not giving any time for rest to recover and repair.
How close are the spreadsheet bodyfat calc results, if that's what you use there? Since that is basis for the BMR and other math, potential inaccuracy there still.
What is the deficit % now with 6-10 lbs to go, you have final GW in there?
When was the last time you had an exercise break, and then a diet break?
Exercise is another stress if body is tired. May not feel tired, but usually can't tell unless really looking at performance.
Do you weigh all your foods, and measure all liquids? With less to lose and smaller deficit, less room for error sadly.
And remember, you eating at 1700-1800 and making slow changes doesn't mean that'll be your maintenance level. Retain muscle mass and LBM, and your TDEE will still stay decently high.
While normally you would say this means you should lower calories, a potentially intense spin class often enough weekly, not allowing repair from an attempted good lifting routine, can spell stress that should be minimized. By eating more.
Even done HRM to see what the spin calorie burn is? And if so, what Make/Model, and if required VO2max stat for accuracy is there, how did you get that value?0 -
I lift four days a week for anywhere from an hour to an hour and forty-five minutes, usually about an hour and a half. I spin three times a week for 55 minutes and I spin on leg day so it doesn't interfere with recovery the next day. I cut out all the other cardio. It doesn't seem to matter if I weigh after a rest day or not. Actually I sometimes weigh a couple lbs more after a rest day. My sodium intake is always higher on the weekends as I love bacon!! Lol
I believe I used a 26% bf and a 15% cut. I took a week off from exercise about a month ago but that was the first one I had taken since February. Last Christmas I had a two week diet break for the holidays. I went a long time being very stringent with no cheat meals but in the last several months I have been having a cheat meal every couple of weeks. I weigh and measure everything I can and drink only non calorie drinks and log alcohol if I have some. For two or three weeks months ago I let myself eat around 1900-2000 calories with no loss there either, although I also didn't gain. Everywhere I read they say if you're not losing you're eating too much so my first thought is to always cut back. I don't have a hrm so I have absolutely no idea what I burn in a spin class. What do you suggest? I know you have to be patient but months with no loss makes me wonder. :-/0 -
I could have written this post. With lifting/spinning/ yoga. Not losing. not gaining. not sure.
anxiously watching.0 -
So you should weigh more after rest day, no false weight loss, glucose stores refilled. That's why that day is valid.
So ate at 1900-2000 for few weeks and didn't gain or lose. Interesting. I'm guessing estimated TDEE was higher than that in the spreadsheet.
Currently eating 1700-1850, no gain or loss. So obviously that is not your potential TDEE, or you would have gained eating 1900-2000, right.
Question is, was 1900-2000 your potential TDEE, or still suppressed.
Well, if it was your potential TDEE at 1900-2000, wouldn't you have lost and have been losing eating 1700-1850 by comparison?
I'm going to suggest 1900-2000 isn't your potential TDEE either. And you are currently suppressed for some reason.
Good for exercise break recently.
Need a diet break, probably every 8 weeks.
If preceded by a walking-only week of exercise break, you'll come back stronger, and with eating more, great combo.
Anyway, right now, need a diet break. I'm actually guessing your real TDEE is higher, but with little to lose, that makes the deficit more than your body wants to handle right now. Too stressed.
1 week TDEE whatever spreadsheet says. Should gain some fast water weight here, as glucose stores should have been slightly depleted.
Then back at strict 1750 for couple weeks. Kicker here is your BMR literally does change through the month, so if catching it on valley, may not see as much results, but 2 weeks should be enough.
If no loss of weight or measurements you can discern, time to reduce. Unless you think I have a good point above about 1900-2000 not being your TDEE either.
What you should do at that point, is enter in negative hours in to the Activity calculator, until the TDEE shows 20% lower.
Then follow the new TDEG that is given.
This way your activity stays the same honest time, your best estimate BMR stays the same, but you are recognizing that your TDEE must be lower than expected.
Looking at time, you do have it right? Like 1-1:45 lifting session, that's enormous. Is that time really filled with straight lifting, reps and sets, 1-3 min rests between is all? Or is there waiting for equipment, or talking, ect? Because the calculator burn is based on good estimates of normal lifting time with short but decent rests. No cardio in between, ect.
20% is about the max metabolic slowdown that has shown in studies from messed up metabolism. Since it can take upwards of a year to fully repair, you can do that at goal weight.
But this is only after confirming your hormones aren't currently messed up. Because taking that 20% deficit to TDEE, and then whatever the diet deficit is in addition, won't help at all.0 -
Interesting reading. Thanks.0
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Yep, an hour to an hour and forty-five minutes is correct. It includes set up time like loading the bar, warm up lifts, and one to two minute rests depending on lift and how much weight is on the bar. I try to keep moving during my rests, no cardio but walking around to keep burning even one more calorie! Lol I really try to keep talking to a minimum.
I am sorta confused. Are you saying that 1900-2000 or above may be my potential tdee? Or that it may even be lower than the 1700? I see what you're saying about the diet break and then going back to 1750 to see what that does and I will give that a try. I know the last 10 lbs can be the hardest to lose and I'm really trying to be patient. I'm just concerned that in my patience I will end up next summer and still not be at goal. :-/
Sometimes I think I should just reevaluate my goal and be satisfied where I am at, but then I see people my age on here who were able to get pretty lean and not have that extra chub and I wonder why I can't get there. UGH. I do have MS and may even be starting pre menopause. I know the pre menopause might be coming into play but I don't think the MS interferes with weight loss. I'm not giving up hope and will continue on whether I lose the last 10 or not. Not that I would ever wear a bikini but being lean enough that I could if I wanted to would be awesome. :-)0 -
I'm suggesting TDEE is higher.
You ate at 1900-2000 and did not gain or lose, right. One might assume that was potential TDEE then, except as perhaps you and many others discovered, eating at 1200 had the same effect of no loss or gain, and that obviously wasn't their potential TDEE either.
So then you went back to 1700-1850 and did not lose or gain either. Obviously that's not potential TDEE.
I'm suggesting your potential TDEE is high enough that even 1900-2000 was too stressful of a deficit for your body, and it was not going to release the fat.
So recommendation now:
2 weeks eating at spreadsheet TDEE, confirm you got increased daily activity in there if it is more than sedentary desk job.
And what is that spreadsheet TDEE? I'm curious compared to the 1900-2000 you did eat.
And just to confirm, do you weigh all your food that enters your mouth? or at least spent 2 weeks doing it to see how off some things can be.0 -
If for some reason I can't weigh all the food I will usually give myself a buffer by not eating all of my calories to make up for the guesstimate. I really try to be as precise as I can be. I will look at spreadsheet and eat at tdee for two weeks. Do I just jump up to that amount or do I add calories slowly? Then after those two weeks go back to 1750?0
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I'd say jump to the 2000 you already ate at and didn't gain, maybe a week there, then up to TDEE, unless bigger than 500 jump, then only half way for a week, then another week.
So for these 2-3 weeks, you should feel the workouts getting easier and be able to do more, should see increases on the bar, ect.
Then 2 weeks at higher level.
In the spreadsheet, TDEG, TDEE, and BMR are all based on a calculated bodyfat %.
How close in % are the 2 calcs? Like under 5%, or closer to 10% or worse?
And from progress so far, when one of the results of the 2 calcs has moved the most, higher or lower number?0 -
Bump. I want to follow and I can totally relate.0
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Bumping for any updates too
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Very sad update. In the last week or so I had decided to drop my calories to 1600-1700 to see if that would jump start some weight loss. I was very careful and made sure to stay on track. Weighed in today and weighed MORE than I have in awhile. :-/ Seriously?!? So next week I will be upping to 2100 for the two weeks and then dropping back down. I'm terribly afraid to do this because I just don't think my psyche can take the extra weight from more calories showing on the scale and I know it will be, but I just don't know what else to do other than just give up on losing more weight and learn to accept where I'm at now.
I'm not understanding what you are asking in reference to bf% and the two calcs. I seem to have a hard time understanding most of this stuff! lol
Really trying to stay positive but I have to say I'm getting very discouraged. :-/0 -
I won't get technical because I try to go by my own experience but I can sympathise with you. It's a fine line I find to get it right and I know many would think the math is perfect but not for me. I can eat 2300+daily and not lose or gain and I can eat 2000 or 1850 daily not loss either and the math would say I should. So I am trying to get my head in the place that I have been body comping or plateau for three years. I guess it's comping as I am getting smaller slowly but the scale over three years has only ever fluctuated by 1.5kg. My scale is very stagnant the most it ever moves daily is 1lb usually only 100g .
The one good thing to take is I'm getting smaller stronger and fitter but can still eat probably more than most short 40yr old woman.
Yell out if you need a similar friends here0 -
We don't give up, especially when so close to the finish line.
You have succeeded so far so now continue a little longer and do what you need to to reach your goal. YOU CAN DO IT!0 -
I won't get technical because I try to go by my own experience but I can sympathise with you. It's a fine line I find to get it right and I know many would think the math is perfect but not for me. I can eat 2300+daily and not lose or gain and I can eat 2000 or 1850 daily not loss either and the math would say I should. So I am trying to get my head in the place that I have been body comping or plateau for three years. I guess it's comping as I am getting smaller slowly but the scale over three years has only ever fluctuated by 1.5kg. My scale is very stagnant the most it ever moves daily is 1lb usually only 100g .
The one good thing to take is I'm getting smaller stronger and fitter but can still eat probably more than most short 40yr old woman.
Yell out if you need a similar friends here
The thing I thought might be happening was body recomp but from what I've heard that is very hard to do and you don't have it happen by accident. So I am completely lost. The only thing that makes sense, to me at least, is that 1700-1800 must be closer to maintenance for me than a deficit. Everyone on here says if you're not losing you're eating too much. I still don't quite understand how eating more helps you to lose but some people swear by it. I'm really so afraid to eat more I'm giving myself a whole week to talk myself into doing it!! I just couldn't believe the scale today. I know it was water weight and poop, lol, but for it to say 2 lbs more when I worked so hard to eat less was beyond depressing. It is all just starting to take a huge mental toll. I dropped down to between 1600-1700 hoping that would be low enough to give myself a little weight loss jump start. I could go lower but don't really want to because, well, I like to eat and I'm afraid my workouts will suffer if I do.
Once again, maybe I should just reevaluate my goals and what I can accomplish without making myself miserable. :-/
Friends are ALWAYS appreciated!! Never can have too many!! Will send you an add! 0 -
I totally understand the psyche thing. When I first upped my calories I changed them 6times a day for the first 2 weeks. I must have run my numbers at least a million times.0
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Water weight can really mess with your head (especially if you weigh in after a lifting day). I am one of the weird people that has done an unintentional body recomposition.
It's weird when you give up the scale and go by measurements, pictures and how your body looks. It is a whole different mindset and can be hard when everyone else is ruled by the scale, but it is so worth it imho.
Step back from the scale, breathe, do a scale trend for a couple weeks and see what is happening. The scale can be tricky with water weight, time of month, lifting, and so many other variables. I can gain 5-7 lbs overnight if I have a heavy lifting day and TOM or a lot of salty foods....0 -
Very sad update. In the last week or so I had decided to drop my calories to 1600-1700 to see if that would jump start some weight loss. I was very careful and made sure to stay on track. Weighed in today and weighed MORE than I have in awhile. :-/ Seriously?!? So next week I will be upping to 2100 for the two weeks and then dropping back down. I'm terribly afraid to do this because I just don't think my psyche can take the extra weight from more calories showing on the scale and I know it will be, but I just don't know what else to do other than just give up on losing more weight and learn to accept where I'm at now.
I'm not understanding what you are asking in reference to bf% and the two calcs. I seem to have a hard time understanding most of this stuff! lol
Really trying to stay positive but I have to say I'm getting very discouraged. :-/
Reread a couple of my posts above and understand the logic.
You ate more than what you just did and did not lose or gain either, right? Think about that.
The extra weight on the scales is not from calories. It's from water.
My reference to bodyfat %. In the spreadsheet. Notice there are 2 calculated results given, and an average given of those.
2 weeks is barely enough time. It can literally take 1 week for screwed up hormones to get unwound you might say, and then 1 more week for the body to actually benefit from that change.
You have very fine line for success being this close to goal weight.
Get your metabolism back where it needs to be, figure out your true TDEE which is probably more than 2100.
Then for 2 weeks take a 250 cal deficit.
Back up to TDEE.
How much more is there to lose actually?0 -
I'm really not sure how much there is left to lose lb wise. I look at myself in the mirror and estimate anywhere from 5-10 lbs. I am currently 125 from this morning. When I first started I picked 123 lbs as a goal, basically because I had no real idea what I should weigh and I thought that would be a good start. I have recently filled in a computer calculator that suggested that I weigh 115 lbs. Pretty sure that's NOT gonna happen! Lol Not sure I could reach that weight let alone maintain it!
It's really not so much about what the scale says but more about how I look. I look great in clothes. It's out of them I'm not thrilled with. I still have "extra" around my belly, upper thighs, and hips. Don't get me wrong, I am MUCH improved since I started and lifting is helping even more. I just use the scale as sort of a guide to my progress, if it is up or if it's down. I am progressing and getting smaller, just ever so slowly. I guess, and maybe I'm not understanding how this all works, what I'm confused about is that if I'm eating in a deficit and getting smaller, if even a little, the scale weight would have to drop some. I am lifting but since in a deficit I'm not gaining muscle to make up for difference in no lbs lost. This is why I thought I had been eating closer to maintenance and doing some kind of body recomp but I heard those are hard to do and don't happen by accident and take a very long time. Maybe I'm being impatient but I've been working hard at losing this 30 lbs since Jan 2012. I've been working super hard since beginning of March and have lost about 10 lbs from March till now. That's 10 lbs in 8 months and I go months with no loss. UGH. Just looking for a way to maybe try and speed up the process some.0 -
So it sounds like it may not be the weight, but what the weight is.
Like many others that only discover the truth afterwards, focusing on just weight loss, and doing anything that causes that no matter what the weight is, can have you end up skinny-fat.
Some call that a smaller version of what you were.
Sure you want to stay mesmerized by the scale?
Why not try putting it away except once a month, eating near maintenance, and stick with your lifting?
Get out the tape measure every 2 weeks.
What did the spreadsheet give as recommended frame size and goal weight? That's with a healthy ratio of fat to non-fat mass. Not athletic, just healthy.
But losing weight isn't what puts it to athletic. Losing fat is what does.
And if you are new to lifting, like 6-9 months or under, you can gain muscles, very slowly, if lifting progressively heavy and eating recommended protein.0 -
First, I want to thank you so much for all your time and help. It is very kind of you and you have been very helpful and it is very much appreciated!
Yes, skinny fat sounds about right. It is much better than it was and I really am thankful for getting this far. I will take that diet break, come back and eat closer to maintenance, and continue to lift. I'll keep plugging along!! I assume that with patience and persistence I will eventually get to where I want to be.
I believe the spreadsheet suggested 115 lbs also but I can't remember what frame size. On my Kindle now so I will have to check later. I am 5 1/2 months into my heavy lifting. Prior to that I had done 2 1/2 months of a program called Chalean Extreme, which is a strength program but with lighter dumbbells. Not sure if that counts as lifting. Lol0
