Pulling Back

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I am looking for some advise on how to teach my horse not to pull back while tied. When I tie him to the trailer to tack up or even on cross-ties sometimes (not always) he pulls back to the point of snapping his halter or the cross-ties. Once he feels the tension of the rope he panics and breaks things to get away... Once he breaks his halter or cross-ties he usually will just stand there (he used to run out into the barnyard, but has learned to listen when I say "whoa"). I never leave him alone on the cross-ties, but if there is a noise or something he will spook, then feel the tension then panic sets in...

Unfortunately, I believe he has had a rough and probably abusive past based on his fearfulness/spookiness, visible scars and the fact that he is always on high alert, but I have no way to find out the specifics...he was actually a stray horse that was skin and bones when found (his owner was contacted and she screamed and yelled how she did not want "that f'ing horse"...so sad...). I assume past events have lead to this behavior when tied, as he is also quite head shy, especially around his right ear. I have made a lot of progress and he finally puts his head down while I brush his face and I can now get a fly mask on him (left ear first), but you can just see the fear in his eyes.

I have patience for years with him as I obviously want him to trust me and know he is safe with me. Any advise on how I can teach him not to do pull back and panic when he feels tension would be appreciated. Thanks guys!!

Replies

  • epiphany29
    epiphany29 Posts: 122 Member
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    I'm not a trainer, and I would recommend you consulting with one. What I do see is that he has learned that panicking and fighting (leading to broken ties/halters) gets him the release he desires. As a result, he will escalate that behavior that was successful (in his mind) and will continue to panic and fight until he learns a better tactic. He doesn't realize how dangerous the behavior is, and how he could be hurt it.

    This is going to take a long time, but you need some professional level help for it.
  • 1princesswarrior
    1princesswarrior Posts: 1,242 Member
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    Sorry, I just saw this. I'm not a trainer but I am schooled in animal behavior. Maybe you could try putting him in crossties or tieing him and using positive reinforcement for him not pulling back. You could give him a verbal "yes" or use a clicker and then a treat.

    Begin this during quiet times at the barn and only for a couple of minutes at a time and then progress to more busy times. Try to practice several times a day if you can.

    In the meantime can you tack him up in his stall? Or have someone hold him? I would not let him continue to practice escaping from the crossties or being tied as I agree this is a learned behavior and he will just get better at it.

    The positive reinforcement will change his "thinking process" from being tied as a place to panic to being tied is a positive thing. I do not often recommend positive reinforcement with horses either, only for ground type work and only for desensitization type exercises. I've had very good results with this kind of behavior modification at the mounting block and teaching horses to come in from the pasture that typically one cannot catch. I'll be working with my guy this winter to start bomb proofing him, he's a spooky Arab.
  • epiphany29
    epiphany29 Posts: 122 Member
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    I'm not disagreeing with the positive reinforcement ideas at all. What I do see some concern with is that this isn't an "always" kind of behavior if I read the OP correctly.

    That means to me that there is a trigger (likely pressure from the halter as a result of being tied). From there, I think that some plan needs to be implemented to "retrain" the horse regarding what that trigger (or pressure) means. IE it should mean to the horse Pressure on my poll...if I lower my head and lean forward it stops. However, I think this horse reads it more like Pressure on my poll...Brace, panic, twist, fight, and it will finally give way.

    I am not sure just standing tied without that trigger and rewarding it will be the effective path to stopping the problem.

    My old cowboy clients would likely tie this horse with a rope halter to a tree with a tire and let him fight himself to exhaustion. Which I do not recommend.

    Pip
  • belles783
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    Thank you for the advice!

    Epiphany, you are correct, he doesn't always pull the cross ties to the point of breaking them, it's those times when he is suddenly spooked by something. I can tack him up on the cross ties, groom him for an hour, fly spray him while tied, etc... with no issues, it's just those sudden spooks where he is already startled from something, feels the tension and panics.

    I do sometimes tack him up in his stall which he is perfectly fine with and at this point I do not tie him to the trailer when we go out as I do not want a panic moment when he is not contained and could run off and hurt himself or others...I am being as safe as possible while teaching him.

    This winter (as I live in lovely New England without an indoor, just a small round pen) since there isn't much to do, I plan to do a lot of de-sensitizing work with him and my hope is that it will carry over to help with the panicking issue.
  • epiphany29
    epiphany29 Posts: 122 Member
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    I am going to preface this with again, I am not a trainer. I may be pulling stuff out of my behind as well, so take my advice with the grain of salt it needs :). I do however own a Thoroughbred and understand spookiness a bit.

    I am going free form some thoughts, if they seem helpful then great, if not, then don't try any of this.

    If he is spooked in other places besides the barn/trailer how does he respond?

    I have found with my mare, I essentially "ignore" the spook and return to work and she returns to relaxed. The bigger reaction I have to her spook the more spook she has.

    Round penning may well be a great place to work with your horse in order for him to learn to relax, trust you, and look to you for direction when the "mountain lion" shows up. I would also do a lot of in hand work with him. Set up some cones for patterns, cross poles, etc. Things that he has to focus on in order to accomplish the task you are after. If he gets upset during that and spooks let him move, don't try to hold him still. Circle in that area till he decides to stop (lots of praise as he refocuses on you) and re-approach the task, maybe turn just shy of the spook point, and slowly advance forward till he does it. Don't get upset, don't get loud and certainly don't reprimand/correct. Just be the leader, be calm and show him the "face" that says there is nothing to worry about. The sooner he sees you not worried, the sooner he won't be worried. Even if he is not spooky in these type of situations it will build your partnership and he will be more willing to trust in your judgement. I feel for you with no indoor and harsh winters as I live in the snowbelt of NY.

    You probably do need to continue with the desensitizing to the head shy things that seem to bother him. I would also work with some teaching him to drop his head when pressure is put on the halter. Do it slow, with gentle pressure and here I would reward with whatever makes him the most happy, be it food/praise, or a special scratching place. My mare is both very verbal praise motivated as well as food motivated.

    I still think advice from a professional is going to be your best option. Make sure you feel comfortable that the trainer isn't going to "cowboy" it (although many cowboys I know are great, sensitive, and patient horsemen).

    It's great that you want to do something so helpful for your horse.

    Pip
  • belles783
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    Ahhh Thoroughbreds...my barn owner has 4 of these characters lol!

    He doesn't just spook in the barn/trailer...he spooks randomly at the silliest things, for example, the new (small) mounting block lol! He will blaze through anything in a trail, cross bridges and water, goes on the road, will lead and follow, it's just occasionally, whether in a trail or ring or cross ties or wherever that he will spook.

    When I am out with another rider and her horse, who happens to be an OTTB mare, spooks, it's often just the chain reaction thing that gets mine. We are working on this and I am seeing improvement in his level of panic. I also do what you do, once the spook is over we just go back to what we were doing as if nothing ever happened.

    We do A LOT of work in the round pen. It's a nice quiet and calm place (it's wooden with a roof and a door that closes, it's not one of the metal ones). I use it to keep him in shape during the crappy months and we do a lot of in hand work, that's where I got him used to the clippers and sometimes we do ground poles and obstacles and play with things that may be "spooky" and other times we don't work and I just sit on a bucket and let him do what he wants, which, after he rolls of course, he usually just comes over to me and just stands there with his head almost in resting my lap lol...

    I do have a trainer who has helped me a lot and has given me lots of pointers and things to work on with him...I am taking it slow to build the trust up. I will just keep on working with him and see what we can accomplish over the winter... Good luck to you this winter, lets hope it's not too brutal!

    I really appreciate all of your advice :)
  • epiphany29
    epiphany29 Posts: 122 Member
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    Good luck with everything. I am hoping this winter isn't too bad. I need to get my girl's strength back up now that she's feeling better. I am dying to get on her because she is moving like I haven't seen her in the 2 years I have owned her. That forcing myself to be patient and enjoy our lunging and liberty work is killing me.

    It sounds like you have some really good ideas and plan of patience in store. I am sure these panics will become less and less.

    Keep us posted.

    Pip
  • belles783
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    Good luck to you too! What happened to your girl, if you don't mind my asking?

    Before I had this horse I didn't really know all the specifics of lunging and my trainer taught me SO much on how to do it effectively...it has helped to make huge improvements in my horse! Stick with it, it's worth it!!
  • epiphany29
    epiphany29 Posts: 122 Member
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    Thankfully it isn't really bad. For about a year she has been showing signs of discomfort and unwillingness to work, but we couldn't localize where. Between 3 vets, chiro/acupuncturist, 2 high level dressage trainers, 1 professional eventing trainer we couldn't figure out where. I had gotten to the point where I was trying to find her a retirement home (and she's only 7). Labor day weekend she FINALLY went lame. She has an old slab fracture in one of her hock joints (which probably happened when she was in race training and why she was abandoned at the track) and some arthritis. Injected hocks and within 24 hours it was a new horse. Now we just need to get some fitness back :).

    My trainer really helped me with lunging too and liberty work. I love that I can free lunge my horse in a regular arena and have her track like she is in a round pen. It's amazing. We are starting some long rein work this week to see if we can straighten out some while building strength. It's just hard being patient because she looks it will be fun again to ride.
  • featherbrained
    featherbrained Posts: 155 Member
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    Hi! My gelding has done this a couple of times, as well, except with him it was when tightening a cinch. And by tightening, I mean, tightening just enough so the saddle didn't slide off on the way outside! The first time he did it, he was ground tied, but stepped on the lead in his effort to "throw back" and snapped our favorite halter. The second time, I was in a barn aisle, and had his rope draped over the wooden steps/ladder leading into the loft; somehow, the sudden movement caused the rope to wedge between the riser and brace of the steps and he shredded his rope and bowed out the whole stairs in his escape!

    He hasn't done it in a couple of years, but I don't have the confidence to keep him tied if I'm not nearby, and I never attach him to anything when I cinch him up, just a rope draped loosely over his neck or my forearm. I am following along here just to learn something :)