Cadence - must be 180.00? (or you're not really running!)
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There is a ton of good info about this topic here: http://runblogger.com/2011/02/stride-rate-stride-length-speed.html0
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Thanks everyone - lots of useful info here.
I did my first "cadence driven run" today - Metronome set to 150. I plan to do a few at this rate then up it slowly
Observations
1. It was a terribly slow run - but the might have been the rain, and the distraction factor (focusing in timing my steps) - so I expect subsequent runs to improve
2. Having the metronome in the back ground made me realize how variable my cadence is usually. I definitely rely on longer, slower striding when I feel a bit tired - so being deprived of that and keeping to short strides then entire time was painful!
I guess these are all "first time" problems - so I'm looking forward to things sorting themselves out over time0 -
I remember all those outcomes when I switched my cadence. When you get it down though, you can run so effortlessly. Continued good luck.0
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I'm 5' 10" and recently started tracking cadence with a Garmin Footpod. Turns out I am fortunate to have the same cadence of 182-188 whether I'm doing an 11 min mi or a 6 min mi. I've goofed around and tried to lower my cadence, and it doesn't feel good at all.
Higher cadence:
Less impact/injury prevention
Better strike/body positioning
Improved strengthening
Pacing flexibility0 -
I'm a quarter inch under 5'8" but my stride length is greater than people I run with who are over 6'. I generally have a midfoot to forefoot strike and I've never counted the cadence of my footsteps but I expect the number falls drastically short of 180. When I increase pace it's almost always an increase in stride length rather than cadence. When I increase leg turnover it feels uncomfortable--like I'm tripping over myself.0
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Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?0 -
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
Yes.
*runs away*0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.0 -
Ended up reflecting on this post last week when I went out, I managed to pick a different track on my audio so found myself at a higher cadence than I'm used to. Having been reading this I consciously adapted to the increased faster music, shortened my stride and was much more conscious of my form.
It was hard work but I knocked 90 seconds off my 5K time one night and then improved my 12 minute distance by 300m the following night.
I've been finding that music helps me a lot, so rather than trying to count my paces I aim to keep working at the pace of the music.
The form issue seemed to help me a lot as well, after three runs using a shorter stride and higher cadence I didn't have even a hint of the usual niggles. A little bit of DOMS but nothing special.0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.
Thanks for this advice, I did get a metronome app and went out for a run. Bloody Hell, 180 is very fast. I just couldn't keep it up. I recon I am running at about 150 and for the moment that will have to do. I am over 6ft tall with long legs.0 -
I have to agree with you 180 is pretty fast, I have also been trying to work on my cadence just because I was having knee issues and a lot of people suggested that I work on my cadence. I also downloaded an app on my phone, the first time I used it I was around 160s. Last week I went out and really tried to hit the 180 my Nike app said I was running 9:30 mins per mile, I was SHOCKED!! that is pretty fast for me when I race I am usually in the 10 to 10:30. I ran that pace for a mile and a half and I could not keep up.
But I am not giving up, for me the issue is not height it is my weight. I still have weight to loose and hoping that when the pounds drop I can run faster 0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.
Thanks for this advice, I did get a metronome app and went out for a run. Bloody Hell, 180 is very fast. I just couldn't keep it up. I recon I am running at about 150 and for the moment that will have to do. I am over 6ft tall with long legs.
I haven't actually tried 180 yet. After I read Chi Running, I switched to 170 and it took a while. At first, I just couldn't move my feet that fast at any speed, but it was hardest at slow speeds. I made a mix tape of songs that were all that tempo and that helped a lot. It made me think of running more like dancing. Now, I can run very slow at that cadence. When I try and run fast, though, my cadence is even faster (maybe close to 180), and I've had to stop using the music during races and speed work.0 -
I am 6'2" with long legs and was running around 150. Once I started to work on my cadence I would just try to push it up 5 steps at a time. For me upping my cadence engaged my *kitten* muscles quite a bit. Trying to push the cadence too fast resulted some sore muscles. After a couple of months I can go out comfortably between 168-170. If I am pushing the pace I can get up to 174. This change seems to have helped my form.0
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I think my 10 year old does that naturally. I don't know if 180 is his rate, but it is a hell of a lot faster than mine, and he runs faster than I do.I have tried to up my cadence but it is quite a bit of work. Have a hard time to maintain it, when I zone out I fall back to my natural slow jog.0
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my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion is that obsessing over a number is very much less important than paying attention to running form. By doing so, our cadence will naturally increase. Peter Larson has a really good handle on communicating this: http://runblogger.com/2010/08/on-running-form-ii-where-should.html
If you pay attention to where your foot contacts the ground on the forward swing, making an effort to land closer to the body (with the foot already move to the rear), you'll find your cadence will increase all by itself. Approaching it the other way around is more difficult, I think.0 -
Aghh this is driving me nuts! I read this thread, thought that makes sense, and on my last couple of runs have tried to find my cadence. Right, count every left footed strike for a minute and multiply by 2. Simples, except it isn't. I lose track of the count within a few seconds, I run into people because I'm looking at my watch and I slow down because I'm not concentrating on running.
Is this because I'm an old man or because I have no co-ordination?
You could carry a small, electronic metronome or get a metronome app for your phone. The beeping (or whatever) will be annoying, but you shouldn't have to use it for very long to get an idea.
Thanks for this advice, I did get a metronome app and went out for a run. Bloody Hell, 180 is very fast. I just couldn't keep it up. I recon I am running at about 150 and for the moment that will have to do. I am over 6ft tall with long legs.
I've tried a couple of times now - I use a metronome on my phone, and aim for three steps per beat (to stay symmetrical) and I'm trying 165 now. Its unnaturally fast for me, and I get tired really quickly - but I get the feeling that if I train like thus for a while it will pay off0 -
my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion is that obsessing over a number is very much less important than paying attention to running form. By doing so, our cadence will naturally increase. Peter Larson has a really good handle on communicating this: http://runblogger.com/2010/08/on-running-form-ii-where-should.html
If you pay attention to where your foot contacts the ground on the forward swing, making an effort to land closer to the body (with the foot already move to the rear), you'll find your cadence will increase all by itself. Approaching it the other way around is more difficult, I think.
I think obsessing over anything is probably a bad idea, but which direction to think about it seems like it might be subjective. For me, a naturally long-striding heel striker, speeding up my cadence forced me to shorten my stride and land with my feet moving behind me. This improved my running a lot.
Reading Chi Running is what helped me change my form for the better, and cadence is presented as just part of the total package of correct form. In fact, he gave me so many things to think about while running, that I can only concentrate on a few at a time.0 -
my (admittedly inexperienced) opinion is that obsessing over a number is very much less important than paying attention to running form. By doing so, our cadence will naturally increase. Peter Larson has a really good handle on communicating this: http://runblogger.com/2010/08/on-running-form-ii-where-should.html
If you pay attention to where your foot contacts the ground on the forward swing, making an effort to land closer to the body (with the foot already move to the rear), you'll find your cadence will increase all by itself. Approaching it the other way around is more difficult, I think.
I think obsessing over anything is probably a bad idea, but which direction to think about it seems like it might be subjective. For me, a naturally long-striding heel striker, speeding up my cadence forced me to shorten my stride and land with my feet moving behind me. This improved my running a lot.
Reading Chi Running is what helped me change my form for the better, and cadence is presented as just part of the total package of correct form. In fact, he gave me so many things to think about while running, that I can only concentrate on a few at a time.
I hear ya' tappae. We are all a sample of one and different things work better for some than others. My feeling is that mindlessly just chasing a number without knowing why we are doing it (which I am sure Chi Running lays out) is putting the cart before the horse. I am sure of this, though: If someone works on improving their running form through really understanding what they are trying to accomplish, then a quicker cadence will happen automatically. Brian Martin's book (Running Technique) was really helpful for me: http://www.runningtechniquetips.com/
Good luck!0 -
Interesting thread! Cadence is never something I paid much attention to... I have paid attention to my form; I do make an effort to always land mid-foot, etc. I just logged into Garmin Connect and apparently on my last run (11 miles) my average cadence was 179. I don't run particularly fast but I am rather short (I'm about 5'2"). In any case, sounds like I should just keep doing what I'm doing.0
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I went to running store and had my running form checked. My right side is over striding (not close to being over hip, heel strike is unstable, pronate outward). Both legs are the same length. He recommended I practice cadence and said to find an app to help.
Any follow up recommendations on an app to practice cadence for runs for iphone?
Thanks for topic0
