need advices to increase Low RMR

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Hello,
i'm female, My age is 22, current weight: 70-71, Height: 159 cm
my weight past year was 67-68 kg
i have been dieting under 1200 for about a year, starting from 1000 with exercise (walking for 20-30-minutes per day) i lost about 3 kg but with cheat days i gained them back
then i ate at 850-900 with exercise (walking 30-minuts (4-5 times/week) ) i lost about 2kg but gained it back with extra 1 kg = 69kg *1st time see that weight in two years*

then after 9 months i increased my intake to 1250 with exercise in home (Dumbbells for arms each arm 3 lb (2 times/week) ) , lunges and Squats 2 times/ week and 20-min in Elliptical machine 5 times weekly ) during one month i lost one kg
then i gained it back although i was at 1250 with no cheat meals at all but because of i ate more crappy food (chocolate and candies)
anyway during 6 months i ate 1250 and only lift weight (Dumbbells for arms each arm 3 lb (2 times/week) ) and Cardio 20-minutes (5 times/week) , my weight were 69.1 kg and gained one kg 70

3 weeks ago i tested my RMR, it was1100 (weight=70, body lean mass=40 kg, body fat=29.9)
the nutritionist said i should stop lifting weight because it prevent losing fats
and eating at 1100 calories, based on my experience 1100 calories per day is hunger + waste of time !!!
because of my low RMR, i had test TSH, thyroid antibodies, cortisol and they were normal
i also checked on O&G Doctor and everything is normal.

i asked people around me whats their estimation of my body weight ? they agreed it looks like 66-65, they were surprised when i said its 70 kg.

since two weeks ago i have been eating 1400 calories and walking 30 minutes per day.

I don't know what to do to lose those 30 kg of fats since there's no gym in my place

fitness equipments in my home are : Elliptical and Treadmill
and i have Dumbbells : 5 lb , 3 lb, and 1 lb

My questions are:
Since my activity level is Light due to my desk job
*How much my calorie intake should be to increase My RMR and lose fat ? * just note: I have noticed that low carb diet doesn't help me burn fat but mostly maintaining my weight
*What are the exercises i should do in home ?
*Should i lift weight or not ?

I really need help I'm confused and i have wasted a lot of time trying this and that :(
«13

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    So you realize now that 1200 total eating level is recommended LOWEST level for a sedentary woman to get all her nutrition in?
    You obviously weren't sedentary then.
    Were you truly eating in total what you mentioned, or did you follow MFP method and correctly eat back exercise calories, so actually eating more than you stated?

    Much like minimum building codes are for safety, usually not for longevity, performance, or aesthetics. Sure you can build to minimum, usually if you won't be the one enjoying the benefits of building better.

    You want longevity, performance, looks? You going to be living in your body?

    So, you ready to move on from the direction that didn't work - minimum recommended?

    So first, any nutritionists that says lifting weights prevents losing fat scares me as to their real knowledge level. Perhaps they focused totally on nutrition, which is fine, and they shouldn't be commenting on exercise, perhaps they weren't clear on their comment and misunderstood. But then it's scary, how do they recommend nutrition without knowing the exercise the customer is doing?
    In addition, she wants you to eat at your tested RMR, what you would burn awake resting all day long, not eating, not moving, not exercising, just like the test? That's scary stupid, I'm sorry.

    Separate 2 things, unless you really had 2 tests done.
    1 - RMR was the face mask sitting there for 15-20 min breathing normal.
    2 - BF% test is Bodpod, hydrostatic, or DEXA. But BIA, handheld, calipers, measurements, electrodes, or other is measurement calculated and while it can be decent and perhaps right on, it is an estimate, not as accurate as RMR, but can be interesting to compare. It's of course the best thing to use whether accurate or not.

    So based on the RMR test, your calculated BMR based on same is 959.
    So BMR 959, RMR 1100.

    Considering avg gal your age, weight, height, composition could be Mifflin BMR 1423, yes, that's terrible, and way outside the 5% range of expected accuracy. But with all your tests decent, usually means less LBM than average, and/or you've suppressed your metabolism.

    So based on the given BF 42.8% and LBM 40 kg, your calculated would be Katch BMR 1235 and Cunningham RMR 1381.
    So going by just expected based on LBM, you are still terribly under where you probably could be.

    Now, depending on how that BF% was obtained, tested or measured, there may be a range of accuracy that makes it not so terrible, but even if you say you were at 47.8% BF on outside range of 5% accuracy, with BMR 1159 and RMR 1304 at that level, your tested BMR 959 and RMR 1100 is still 5% outside that range even. Still under by 200 calories, so your TDEE would even be lower by that or likely more.

    So you can take that knowledge 2 different directions. 1 study showed that a suppressed metabolism took 6 yrs to recover. I don't recall the details of that study because I've gotten in to another one lately in my blog.

    1 - You can accept the fact you made your body more efficient than it needed to be, and your TDEE is going to be lower than it could have been. Meaning to lose weight you'll have to eat very small likely a great future chunk of time.
    If your compliance of eating small amounts is good - that may be no problem. If you have a hard time eating so little, or you only get to eat more when doing greats amount of exercise, then that's not so good.

    2 - You hope you can raise it somewhat in perhaps a 3 month time reset, and start again with a more reasonable deficit that may allow for even some recovery then. You have had a long period with no results anyway while torturing your body more, what's 3 more months actually trying to help it heal?

    BTW, I got the stats from my spreadsheet on my profile page where you can enter in your RMR, but it shouldn't be used because it's so much lower than possible. I'd recommend don't chase a suppressed metabolism in to the ground by going even lower.

    While it's very possible it may be suppressed as much as it's going to be, the such very small amount you'd have to eat to get a loss would be a fine line between good and bad results.

    On your workouts, forget any arm specific stuff like curls or triceps kickback, that's not going to do much at all for you except use your time from more valuable things. For every good compound move you push you use triceps, for any pull you use biceps.
    You might compare it to which muscle is going to be better for spending time on, your forearm, or your quad? The biggest muscles made stronger will burn more as you use them all day.

    Back to nutritionists saying that routine was lifting weights, it's not hardly.

    For helping recover the metabolism, you need to stop the cardio except for that 30 min walking which is fine. Do you really need to improve or keep your body's efficiency still doing harder cardio?

    You need to do some hard body weight exercises. Those hand-weights will quickly become too light if you can follow these suggestions.
    You want to use the biggest muscles in compounds moves, meaning there are other muscles being used at the same time.
    Can you get heavier dumbbells when the time comes? Can you get a pull-up bar for doorway, they have ones that wedge at top very well?
    You can get some great bodyweight exercises for upper body for now with just that bar, and likely be just enough. Lower body will likely need more weight than you have available. Got 2 gal milk jugs to fill with water?

    So the best order to work biggest muscles first, while alternating between upper and lower body to provide some relief. You want sets to be 3-4 in a row with 1-2 min rests, with reps to be 12-15, with almost bad form on rep 15 last set, perhaps not even making it there.
    Squats (quads) - extra weight in hands if getting all the way down, or hanging on pole on your shoulders as normal.
    Inverted row (upper back)
    Straight-leg deadlifts (hamstrings) - jugs heavier than 5 lbs likely needed
    Bench press (pecs)
    1 legged calf raises (calves)
    Pull-ups (lats) - as many as you can do, or negatives, which is just lowering yourself, chair to get up there
    jack-knife (abs) - 20 reps is fine if you can do that many
    Shoulder press (delts)

    For form guidelines on those, pick the muscle, look under body-weight or dumbbell.
    http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtFemale.html

    The goal here is to strengthen muscle, you may gain some, but very unlikely with suppressed metabolism. Body isn't going to feel the need to add something that takes energy to maintain, when it thinks it's not getting enough already. But you likely will get water weight gain as glucose is added which stores with water, and water retained for repair process.

    So only valid weigh-in day now is morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout. Minimizes false weight gain/loss.

    I'd suggest using the spreadsheet on my profile page, get your stats in except for the RMR, you aren't going to eat to suppressed level. Track your measurements on Progress tab.
    Get your workout time in there that you can do, hopefully 3 times a week, with that walking you can do.
    You'll be eating to the TDEE goal, not the TDEG because your aim first is recovery, not weight loss.

    Suggest you increase your daily calories by 100 every 2 weeks, working your way up to TDEE from your current eating level.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    Were you truly eating in total what you mentioned, or did you follow MFP method and correctly eat back exercise calories, so actually eating more than you stated?
    i ate 1250 sometimes without eating back exercise calories
    Separate 2 things, unless you really had 2 tests done.
    1 - RMR was the face mask sitting there for 15-20 min breathing normal.
    2 - BF% test is Bodpod, hydrostatic, or DEXA. But BIA, handheld, calipers, measurements, electrodes, or other is measurement calculated and while it can be decent and perhaps right on, it is an estimate, not as accurate as RMR, but can be interesting to compare. It's of course the best thing to use whether accurate or not.

    So based on the RMR test, your calculated BMR based on same is 959.
    So BMR 959, RMR 1100.
    i had the test with the handheld & scale BIA one ,i think its BF% based, actually the 1100 result could be BMR since the nutritionist didn't show me the result paper, she only said that my body burn only 1100 so i guessed it's RMR
    but what i understand from you it seems BMR
    Considering avg gal your age, weight, height, composition could be Mifflin BMR 1423, yes, that's terrible, and way outside the 5% range of expected accuracy. But with all your tests decent, usually means less LBM than average, and/or you've suppressed your metabolism.

    So based on the given BF 42.8% and LBM 40 kg, your calculated would be Katch BMR 1235 and Cunningham RMR 1381.
    So going by just expected based on LBM, you are still terribly under where you probably could be.

    Now, depending on how that BF% was obtained, tested or measured, there may be a range of accuracy that makes it not so terrible, but even if you say you were at 47.8% BF on outside range of 5% accuracy, with BMR 1159 and RMR 1304 at that level, your tested BMR 959 and RMR 1100 is still 5% outside that range even. Still under by 200 calories, so your TDEE would even be lower by that or likely more.
    i understand that you said if RMR is 1100 it's not realistic result based on My BF% and even LBM
    then i guess it's BMR, sorry as i said i didn't see the result paper, and i didn't know that there is difference between RMR and BMR
    So you can take that knowledge 2 different directions. 1 study showed that a suppressed metabolism took 6 yrs to recover. I don't recall the details of that study because I've gotten in to another one lately in my blog.

    1 - You can accept the fact you made your body more efficient than it needed to be, and your TDEE is going to be lower than it could have been. Meaning to lose weight you'll have to eat very small likely a great future chunk of time.
    If your compliance of eating small amounts is good - that may be no problem. If you have a hard time eating so little, or you only get to eat more when doing greats amount of exercise, then that's not so good.

    2 - You hope you can raise it somewhat in perhaps a 3 month time reset, and start again with a more reasonable deficit that may allow for even some recovery then. You have had a long period with no results anyway while torturing your body more, what's 3 more months actually trying to help it heal?
    Do you mean it would be difficult to raise it ? and that impossible without intensive weight lifting ?
    i don't understand especially the 1st point made me disappointed :cry:
    For helping recover the metabolism, you need to stop the cardio except for that 30 min walking which is fine. Do you really need to improve or keep your body's efficiency still doing harder cardio?

    You need to do some hard body weight exercises. Those hand-weights will quickly become too light if you can follow these suggestions.
    You want to use the biggest muscles in compounds moves, meaning there are other muscles being used at the same time.
    Can you get heavier dumbbells when the time comes? Can you get a pull-up bar for doorway, they have ones that wedge at top very well?
    You can get some great bodyweight exercises for upper body for now with just that bar, and likely be just enough. Lower body will likely need more weight than you have available. Got 2 gal milk jugs to fill with water?

    So the best order to work biggest muscles first, while alternating between upper and lower body to provide some relief. You want sets to be 3-4 in a row with 1-2 min rests, with reps to be 12-15, with almost bad form on rep 15 last set, perhaps not even making it there.
    Squats (quads) - extra weight in hands if getting all the way down, or hanging on pole on your shoulders as normal.
    Inverted row (upper back)
    Straight-leg deadlifts (hamstrings) - jugs heavier than 5 lbs likely needed
    Bench press (pecs)
    1 legged calf raises (calves)
    Pull-ups (lats) - as many as you can do, or negatives, which is just lowering yourself, chair to get up there
    jack-knife (abs) - 20 reps is fine if you can do that many
    Shoulder press (delts)

    For form guidelines on those, pick the muscle, look under body-weight or dumbbell.
    http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtFemale.html

    The goal here is to strengthen muscle, you may gain some, but very unlikely with suppressed metabolism. Body isn't going to feel the need to add something that takes energy to maintain, when it thinks it's not getting enough already. But you likely will get water weight gain as glucose is added which stores with water, and water retained for repair process.

    So only valid weigh-in day now is morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout. Minimizes false weight gain/loss.

    I'd suggest using the spreadsheet on my profile page, get your stats in except for the RMR, you aren't going to eat to suppressed level. Track your measurements on Progress tab.
    Get your workout time in there that you can do, hopefully 3 times a week, with that walking you can do.
    You'll be eating to the TDEE goal, not the TDEG because your aim first is recovery, not weight loss.

    Suggest you increase your daily calories by 100 every 2 weeks, working your way up to TDEE from your current eating level.

    i don't think i could do these workouts currently, because as i said no gym around at all and i don't have enough money to buy some of those stuff

    i could buy them in 2-3 months! but what can i do before that ?
    just eating 1400 (or less) and walking 30 minutes daily??
  • nebslp
    nebslp Posts: 1,650 Member
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    Bump
  • ANewLucia
    ANewLucia Posts: 2,081 Member
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    The handheld and scale devices are not the most accurate.

    Yes, you can increase your suppressed metabolic rate over time. Weight training using compound moves, progressively increasing weights over time is ideal, but since you have no access to it...start with body weight exercises. squats, pushups, dips, if you have a pull up bar...bodyrock tv has some great workout vids. When you are able to acquire some, heybales suggestions are great.

    Now, I'd suggest getting your metabolism burning, but slowly increasing your intake until you hit your TDEE. If you want to try and stave off huge jumps in weight...just take it slow. Run your numbers (using heybales TDEE from his spreadsheet or the scooby calculator), increase your calories by 100 at a time. Waiting until your weight stabilizes at that new level for a couple weeks then bump by 100 again and do the same. Right now it is about healing your metabolism. Doing the bodyweight exercises will help and get to the weights as soon as you are able.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Ok, starting over - you did NOT have an RMR test.

    You had a bodyfat % measurement. With a device that can be upwards of 5% accurate for good models and used properly, around 10% or worse otherwise.

    So was this first thing in morning with normal hydration levels? I'm going to suggest that figure they got for BF%, which is the only actual figure the measurement is giving you, is the only thing you should use.
    BF 42.8% at 70 kg.

    The calculated BMR or RMR, you'll never know, based perhaps on LBM. But I've actually seen the printouts of some machines, from some forums members actually, that while it states here's the BF%, it didn't actually use the Katch BMR or Cunningham RMR to even calculate a best estimate BMR/RMR, they still used an age, weight, height calculation.

    I'd suggest the spreadsheet and the 2 measurement methods for BF%, which can also be 5% accurate. 3 different methods at 5% accurate increases potential accuracy. But at some point it doesn't change the end numbers enough to matter.

    Depending on your genetics, yes, it may be difficult to raise your metabolism and mainly your TDEE back to expected levels based on your LBM.
    What can improve otherwise by eating more, your daily spontaneous activity, by merely eating more. Higher TDEE.
    You can strengthen your muscle so when you use it daily, it burns more. Higher TDEE.
    The actual weight lifting can just aid in adding more, though difficult, if it's used daily, burns more too. Higher TDEE.

    The increased efficiency you may not be able to do anything about, that may take a long while to fix.
    Here's study about what happens if curious to know more about that one.
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales?month=201401

    Where there is a will, there is a way - I mentioned several things that can be used as substitutes for more dumbbells - you have none?

    Did you look over the sight given for body weight exercises targeting those same muscles?

    And no - you don't recovery your metabolism/TDEE by continuing to eat too little.
    The resistance training is just going to help the most, doesn't mean you can't eat at estimated TDEE without it.
    But I'll bet you can do more than you think.

    Read over that section on lifts and ideas, you'll find something that can be used to provide benefit.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    I'm really thankful for your help, i finished my 4th week, i ate at average 1500 calories
    and i gained through 4 weeks about 4 lb (1.8 kg)
    is it a sign to increase my calories intake?
    i increased it to 1650 yesterday, because my BF% based on heybales's spreadsheet measurements and handheld & scale BIA result(by the way i was on my period and ate before 3-4 hrs) , the avg is 37.15
    and My TDEE is 1650

    how to know if i should eat more or less while i couldn't tell it's fat or water gain?
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    i forget to mention my weight in 4 weeks:

    6 Jan is my start 69.4

    15 Jan 70 kg

    20 Jan 71 kg (after 4-6 hrs of breakfast and the 1st day of period)

    31 Jan 71.7 ( after meal and drinking 800 ml of water)

    i know i should weight at morning, but I'm afraid to be depressed :l

    and I'm planing to eat 1500-1600 for 3 months at least then cutting 10% by exercise only
  • FitterBody
    FitterBody Posts: 367 Member
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    Bump to read later.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    69.4 kg starting

    25 days later

    71.7 kg, less 800 mL water is 0.8 kg, less meal 0.5 kg, is 69.4 kg

    If you are going to use few data points because of short time span - they better be the best data points you can get.

    Valid weigh-in time - morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

    So you gained nothing and not even a total 28 day month yet.

    That sounds pretty good for recovery.

    You ate average 1500 calories. Estimated TDEE 1650.

    So it was time to increase again, either the whole 150 daily, or another 2 weeks with 100 more, then 2 more weeks with an additional 50 more.

    So true that BIA result wasn't the best test, keep it averaged in with the measurement calcs, at least it's an average then.

    To confirm - that estimated TDEE is NOT based on the RMR test, right?

    You do NOT want to chase an already suppressed RMR further down. So confirm you have no RMR stat entered in to that field in the spreadsheet, especially since it wasn't RMR.

    And you are doing some exercise now to include in the Activity Calculator? Seems like a low figure.

    You should be willing to eat at TDEE and slightly over, not under. A goal is something to hit, not miss purposely. 50 over is better than 100 below.

    If you start exercising more or different activity, you'll also need to adjust that figure. And near the end, you'll want to do a 250 test for 2 weeks. Eating 250 more daily for 2 weeks should only cause an increase in weight of 0.45 kg, that's all. If you were indeed eating at TDEE.

    Great job making the adjustment, sounds like the body is too. Keep it up, and don't we so tied to the scale, though it is useful to have valid data points.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    69.4 kg starting

    25 days later

    71.7 kg, less 800 mL water is 0.8 kg, less meal 0.5 kg, is 69.4 kg

    If you are going to use few data points because of short time span - they better be the best data points you can get.

    Valid weigh-in time - morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

    So you gained nothing and not even a total 28 day month yet.

    i'm sorry but 1 kg missed in the calculation, so it would be 70.4 kg
    anyway i got my weight today 71.1 kg (sorry but i want to mention that i have not go to bathroom since tow day age)
    my weight is 71.1 minimum 70.9 kg
    i gained about (1.5 kg) in 4 weeks

    To confirm - that estimated TDEE is NOT based on the RMR test, right?

    You do NOT want to chase an already suppressed RMR further down. So confirm you have no RMR stat entered in to that field in the spreadsheet, especially since it wasn't RMR.
    No it's only based on BF%
    i ignore RMR result i got since it came from BF% scale
    And you are doing some exercise now to include in the Activity Calculator? Seems like a low figure.

    You should be willing to eat at TDEE and slightly over, not under. A goal is something to hit, not miss purposely. 50 over is better than 100 below.

    If you start exercising more or different activity, you'll also need to adjust that figure. And near the end, you'll want to do a 250 test for 2 weeks. Eating 250 more daily for 2 weeks should only cause an increase in weight of 0.45 kg, that's all. If you were indeed eating at TDEE.

    Great job making the adjustment, sounds like the body is too. Keep it up, and don't we so tied to the scale, though it is useful to have valid data points.

    i'm planning to stay at 1650 with daily exercise that burns 80-100, what do you think?
    i'm light active now and i don't feel i want to do much exercise or resistance training until i figure my TDEE and feed my self well
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    i'm sorry but 1 kg missed in the calculation, so it would be 70.4 kg
    anyway i got my weight today 71.1 kg (sorry but i want to mention that i have not go to bathroom since tow day age)
    my weight is 71.1 minimum 70.9 kg
    i gained about (1.5 kg) in 4 weeks

    i'm planning to stay at 1650 with daily exercise that burns 80-100, what do you think?
    i'm light active now and i don't feel i want to do much exercise or resistance training until i figure my TDEE and feed my self well

    Yep, I halved my estimate of your food when I edited, but forgot to change the final figure. But really, unless you weighed it, we don't know.

    So 1.5 kg in almost 4 complete weeks (tomorrow morning is 4 complete weeks, right, Jan 6?).
    Does that mean your starting point was a valid weigh-in? Or was it morning after doing cardio exercise? Or even worse, later in the day after not eating or after doing some cardio?
    Since you are basing so much on this change in a month, that starting point better be very valid.
    Or all this math is useless.

    1.5 x 7716 cal/kg fat = 11574 / 28 days = 413 excess calories a day if truly fat.

    That would imply your TDEE is really around 1200.
    Now that is possible if you massively hosed up your metabolism and TDEE.

    Also, be aware, your figuring out a TDEE for one level of activity is useless if you change the activity, because the TDEE changes.

    Also, if the amount you are eating truly is over your real suppressed TDEE right now - this is the best and needed time to be exercising as well as you can, because your body will use the extra calories for making improvements - not just adding fat.

    You don't want to keep adding so much fat that your estimated TDEE because reality merely for the fact you gained so much weight.

    Why do you not want to figure out your TDEE while doing resistance training - will you be doing it later?
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    Yep, I halved my estimate of your food when I edited, but forgot to change the final figure. But really, unless you weighed it, we don't know.

    So 1.5 kg in almost 4 complete weeks (tomorrow morning is 4 complete weeks, right, Jan 6?).
    Does that mean your starting point was a valid weigh-in? Or was it morning after doing cardio exercise? Or even worse, later in the day after not eating or after doing some cardio?
    Since you are basing so much on this change in a month, that starting point better be very valid.
    Or all this math is useless.
    my start was valid after fasting for 16 hrs
    i used this way to get the right weight usually
    i were on diet before that week (the nutritionist diet - 1100) and i ate 1000-1100 and lost 1.2 from 26 Dec - 5 Jan

    30 Dec 69.8
    6 Jan 69.4

    30 Dec- 6 Jan 0.4*7716 = 3080/6 days= 513 cal, is not?

    Do you think that my TDEE suppressed that much ?
    is 1.5 kg too much ? I read in the EM2WL that gaining weight (5 lb=2.27 kg) is normal and expected until 8 weeks
    Why do you not want to figure out your TDEE while doing resistance training - will you be doing it later?
    yes I'm planning to do it later after 1-2 month and then increase my TDEE with resistance training
    but know i just want to figure my TDEE with light active
    i was glad that my TDEE 1500-1600, it is truly enough for me
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    also i want to ask if my TDEE could be 1200
    should i eat 1600 and exercise to burn 400 cal ?
    will my TDEE increase by this way ?

    I'm really thankful to have someone like you to guide me and help me out
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    also i want to ask if my TDEE could be 1200
    should i eat 1600 and exercise to burn 400 cal ?
    will my TDEE increase by this way ?

    I'm really thankful to have someone like you to guide me and help me out

    i think i could figure my TDEE now
    i will consider that the start
    15 Jan 70 kg
    4 Feb 71.0 kg

    1 kg gained = 7716 / 20 days= 386 cal
    i ate 1500 with light active
    1500- 386= 1114 is My TDEE

    based on the study that you have mentioned LowCaloriesDiet (LCD) group increased their TDEE 55% after 3 months maintenance level eating
    so, i will eat 1400 with 3 x body weight exercises + 5 hrs 5 mph walking this week starting from today
    and see the what changes next Monday
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    One study showed max 20% suppression of TDEE. So yes, that is a tad below that, if estimated TDEE is correct.

    Yes, that study showed that even though they ate at maintenance, suppressed as it was, after 3 months they had recovered a tad amount.
    And we don't even know how much recovery it would have been if weekly they had confirmed that maintenance and kept increasing calories.
    Because at the start of 3 months in they ate at maintenance, right, but at the end of 6 months their sedentary TDEE had slightly risen towards their potential.

    My only concern with running numbers like we are doing is because your BMR literally does change through the month. So you really need a month's worth of valid data to workout out a TDEE based on a routine and actual body changes.
    And neither weigh-in can be proceeded by a change to a more intense workout, as that causes water retention and throws off the figures.

    So yes, that study showed exactly why it's beneficial to go ahead and increase calories slowly, like 100 extra daily week after week, while doing your intended exercise.
    For some of that week you may literally be eating over your right at the moment suppressed TDEE, but with exercise it means the extra calories will not be just fat.
    Of course the hope is at the end of the week your body has increase energy output such you are eating at TDEE by the end of the week.
    Body starts feeling safer burning more, and up you go.
    At some point, many start losing weight as they keep increasing to potential TDEE.

    Just keep re-evaluating your estimated potential TDEE based on weight and activity and BF%, eventually you will reach it without actually causing it purely by extra weight gain.
  • ggeise14
    ggeise14 Posts: 386 Member
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  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    One study showed max 20% suppression of TDEE. So yes, that is a tad below that, if estimated TDEE is correct.

    Yes, that study showed that even though they ate at maintenance, suppressed as it was, after 3 months they had recovered a tad amount.
    And we don't even know how much recovery it would have been if weekly they had confirmed that maintenance and kept increasing calories.
    Because at the start of 3 months in they ate at maintenance, right, but at the end of 6 months their sedentary TDEE had slightly risen towards their potential.

    My only concern with running numbers like we are doing is because your BMR literally does change through the month. So you really need a month's worth of valid data to workout out a TDEE based on a routine and actual body changes.
    And neither weigh-in can be proceeded by a change to a more intense workout, as that causes water retention and throws off the figures.

    So yes, that study showed exactly why it's beneficial to go ahead and increase calories slowly, like 100 extra daily week after week, while doing your intended exercise.
    For some of that week you may literally be eating over your right at the moment suppressed TDEE, but with exercise it means the extra calories will not be just fat.
    Of course the hope is at the end of the week your body has increase energy output such you are eating at TDEE by the end of the week.
    Body starts feeling safer burning more, and up you go.
    At some point, many start losing weight as they keep increasing to potential TDEE.

    Just keep re-evaluating your estimated potential TDEE based on weight and activity and BF%, eventually you will reach it without actually causing it purely by extra weight gain.

    Ok here's the 5th week update
    On average my NET calories 1100 , I eat daily 1370 so I focused on burning the extra 270 calories per day

    my exercises burns (1900-2200): 7 hrs 5 mph walking + 30 min elliptical + 40 min stationary bike + 3 sessions strength training

    I have two electronic scales (to get more accurate weight) pink (the old one) and gray one
    on Jan 6: Pink scale give me 70 kg and gray 69.4
    and since the pink has no battery the last 4 weeks, I used the gray one

    my weight is 70.6 kg in pink scale and 70.4 in gray !! morning after rest day
    but since I fix the pink I believe it's more stable than the gray one
    any way

    if I gained 600 g based on the pink scale it means the TDEE is about 1300
    extra 200 in 28 days (1500 cals intake)
    200*28=5600/7716=0.72

    minus 200 in 7 days (5th week net calories "1100")
    200*7=1400/7716=0.18

    =>70 kg + (0.72-0.81) = 70.54~70.6 kg


    and if I gained 1 kg based on the gray scale it means the TDEE is about 1200
    +300 in 28 days (1500 cals intake)
    300*28=8400/7716= 1.088~1.1 kg

    minus 100 in 7 days(1100)
    100*7=700/7716=0.9~0.1 kg
    => 69.4 + (1.088-0.9) = 70.4

    than current TDEE Is between 1200-1300

    I will increase my net calories to 1200 this week with strength training and 3 hrs 5 mph walking
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Don't even try to do the math with NET calories - that assumes you know what the exercise burned - and you don't to that accuracy.

    Results trumps those estimates by a long shot.

    You'll never know what the exercise burned exact enough, nor what you would have burned exact enough for daily life without the exercise.

    Nope, total eaten, gross, not NET.
  • Kotori
    Kotori Posts: 34
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    ok got it gross only, then my intake will be 1300

    could you please check my strength training workout routine, I add and exchange some exercises:
    warm up 1 min
    Squat (quads) 12-15 per set
    Inverted row (upper back) 12-15 per set
    Straight-leg deadlifts (hamstrings) 15-20 per set (currently 5 lb per hand)
    Bench press (pecs) 15-20 reps
    1 legged Calf raises (calves) 12-15 per set
    Dumbbell lats exercise (lats) 15-20
    *Lunges each leg 10-15 per set
    *bridges 20-25 per set
    *knee Push up 10-15 per set (beginner)
    Toe Touch Crunches (abs) 20-25 per set
    Shoulder press (delts) 12-15 per set
    *Plank 15 sec

    sets 3 in a row
    stretching exercise

    I'm going to buy heaver dumbbells this weekend.

    isn't fine do to 1 isometric session per week and 2 isotonic?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Excellent routine.
    Might suggest since the shoulders are such smaller muscles, and can get just plain tired by the end of the routine, move the shoulder press up in front of lats. The pulling muscles are usually stronger already in upper body. Perhaps trade them with each other, should allow shoulder press to be slightly more weight, and better effect.

    Confirming the math if I'm reading the numbers right.

    28 days gained 0.6 - 1 kg eating 1370 gross calories. (that's true, 1370, not 1500?)

    gained 0.6 to 1kg x 7716 cal/kg = 4630 to 7716 excess calories / 28 days = 165 to 276 daily excess over true TDEE for whatever the workout was during this time.

    Gross eaten 1370 - 165 to 276 = 1205 to 1094 TDEE. 1150 average TDEE.

    So don't all of a sudden get more accurate with logging food now, keep the same level of accuracy that got you 1370. It may be you are actually eating more, it just looks bad using deflated stats.

    Also, be very sure you really tried to eat more by slowly coming up in calories. Because if that TDEE is already suppressed because of badly under-eating, then creating a deficit to it to keep losing weight is just going to chase it right in to the ground, with no place to go to lose weight.

    So 10% deficit is 1150 x 0.9 = 1035.

    If you intended to say your actual daily eating (and rough 1500 isn't it, be exact, no missing days or meals) was higher than 1370, then fill in the correct figure above.

    And that is holding to whatever the workout was during that time. You increase your workout, you need to increase the calories by that prior to taking deficit.