Low carb doesn't work for me anymore
Jestinia
Posts: 1,153 Member
I know it's no miracle of food composition, subtracting calories like some kind of steak fairy. It was all about appetite control, and when I was very overweight, it worked great. I lost over 50 pounds with it. But now I'm in the normal weight range, and when I did low carb for three weeks, I either maintained or actually gained instead of losing any of those ten vanity pounds (hard to tell if I gained or lost due to water weight loss).
Before I give up entirely and attempt to become a vegetarian again, I'd like to know if anyone has experience with appetite issues at normal weight range and ways to tackle those as a low carb eater.
Before I give up entirely and attempt to become a vegetarian again, I'd like to know if anyone has experience with appetite issues at normal weight range and ways to tackle those as a low carb eater.
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Replies
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Are you willing to open your food diary so that we can look at it and make recommendations?0
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J,
Nice work getting to a healthy weight. Take a look at my blog. Scroll to the sugar article. It's not just carbs...it's the hidden sugar that causes most hunger and out of control eating for people of any size. Keep your sugar intake to 10-15 teaspoons a day.
Formula: Carbs-minus fiber-divided by 5
You can do this at the end of the day using MFP ....it will show you where you may be getting the hunger triggers.0 -
Are you willing to open your food diary so that we can look at it and make recommendations?
This. And did you recaculate your TDEE and BMR when you got to the lower weight?0 -
I don't eat low carb, but LORD, yes. When will folks realize how much sugar, and worse, how much high fructose corn syrup is added to their store bought convenience foods???J,
Nice work getting to a healthy weight. Take a look at my blog. Scroll to the sugar article. It's not just carbs...it's the hidden sugar that causes most hunger and out of control eating for people of any size. Keep your sugar intake to 10-15 teaspoons a day.
Formula: Carbs-minus fiber-divided by 5
You can do this at the end of the day using MFP ....it will show you where you may be getting the hunger triggers.
I bet we can CHART the addition of sugar, CS, and HFCS to foods, with the increase in America's waist line.
It's in everything!0 -
Marie: can you link your blog? I'm not able to find it.0
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I think I'll try veggies, milk, and nuts for awhile and still leave out the bread and sugar treats, see how that goes. I started eating potatoes this week, was surprised they kept me full for hours. I thought they were blood sugar spikers!0
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All sugar is bad, whether it comes from corn, beets, sugar canes, etc. So much is added to food. I try not to eat processed foods and stay away from fruit.0
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Milk is bad. My doctor says that it is used to 'fatten up the calf' and I don't need to be fattened up! Lol.0
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I know it's no miracle of food composition, subtracting calories like some kind of steak fairy. It was all about appetite control, and when I was very overweight, it worked great. I lost over 50 pounds with it. But now I'm in the normal weight range, and when I did low carb for three weeks, I either maintained or actually gained instead of losing any of those ten vanity pounds (hard to tell if I gained or lost due to water weight loss).
That doesn't sound like failure to me. Yeah, you're not at the weight you think you should be at, but that doesn't mean you're not at the weight you should be. You said yourself that you're in the healthy range. That means that odds are, you won't be able to lose that weight easily if at all on any diet.
This is not a bad thing.
Instead, it would probably be better to ditch the goal weight altogether and instead look at body composition. What's your body fat percentage? Start incorporating some strength training and start working on building muscle and losing fat. The scale won't move, or may even go up some, but that's ok as long as your body fat goes down to a healthy level.
Also, low carb should not be treated as some fad diet, where you do it until you reach a certain weight, then go off of it. It should be a lifestyle change, as useful for maintaining weight as it is for losing weight. And besides, no diet is going to give you results in three weeks when you're talking "vanity pounds."0 -
Congrats on getting to a healthy weight!
as for staying low carb...you shouldn't! In fact everyone should be cycling the VLC diet plan in ensure that they remain in good mental health.
Like all diet plans where you cut one of the three macro nutrients out severely, it is detrimental. I'm all for low carb, as long as it is really a normal eating plan. VLC should only be done for 4 - 6 weeks at a time.0 -
as for your need to "give up, and become a vegitarian again" I have to say that is a bad Idea!
vegitarian diet plan is just that, another diet plan - you are cutting out allot of necessary macronutrients. Most importantly, complete proteins and the best source of B3 and all of your B vitamins.
I have been in maintence mode for a year. I have no problem with appetite. I do get cravings, but I follow them, listening to my body. If I am craving protein, then I eat a higher protein meal. If I am craving salt, I ensure that I eat a meal full of electrolyte rich, nutrient dense foods - like a reciepe that includes beef heart, green leafy veggies, and I up my mineral water intake.
Are you sure that your appetite control issue isn't really normal bodily cravings for minerals and vitamins?0 -
I know it's no miracle of food composition, subtracting calories like some kind of steak fairy. It was all about appetite control, and when I was very overweight, it worked great. I lost over 50 pounds with it. But now I'm in the normal weight range, and when I did low carb for three weeks, I either maintained or actually gained instead of losing any of those ten vanity pounds (hard to tell if I gained or lost due to water weight loss).
That doesn't sound like failure to me. Yeah, you're not at the weight you think you should be at, but that doesn't mean you're not at the weight you should be. You said yourself that you're in the healthy range. That means that odds are, you won't be able to lose that weight easily if at all on any diet.
This is not a bad thing.
Instead, it would probably be better to ditch the goal weight altogether and instead look at body composition. What's your body fat percentage? Start incorporating some strength training and start working on building muscle and losing fat. The scale won't move, or may even go up some, but that's ok as long as your body fat goes down to a healthy level.
Also, low carb should not be treated as some fad diet, where you do it until you reach a certain weight, then go off of it. It should be a lifestyle change, as useful for maintaining weight as it is for losing weight. And besides, no diet is going to give you results in three weeks when you're talking "vanity pounds."
^^ I concur^^0 -
Congrats on getting to a healthy weight!
as for staying low carb...you shouldn't! In fact everyone should be cycling the VLC diet plan in ensure that they remain in good mental health.
Like all diet plans where you cut one of the three macro nutrients out severely, it is detrimental. I'm all for low carb, as long as it is really a normal eating plan. VLC should only be done for 4 - 6 weeks at a time.
I think I'll go with Phinney and Volek's research on this instead. I've been doing very low carb for nearly 18 months. Being keto adapted feels great, and I'm the healthiest I've ever been. For those of us that are sensitive to carbs, we will likely always need to moderate our intake.0 -
Congrats on getting to a healthy weight!
as for staying low carb...you shouldn't! In fact everyone should be cycling the VLC diet plan in ensure that they remain in good mental health.
Like all diet plans where you cut one of the three macro nutrients out severely, it is detrimental. I'm all for low carb, as long as it is really a normal eating plan. VLC should only be done for 4 - 6 weeks at a time.
If you're going to state such claims as fact, it would be wise to cite the research to back them up. As it stands, the research points in quite the opposite direction, given things like the fact that the ketogenic diet was developed specifically for people suffering from seizures (in other words, ketogenic is arguably neurologically better for you), the evidence that suggests Alzheimer's is essentially another form of Diabetes, the prevalence of disorders that are mitigated, if not reversed entirely by reducing carbs, and the fact that the Inuit and other polar groups, when on their traditional diets, live on about 0-20g of carbs and have far fewer health problems than their Westernized counterparts.
Oh, and, from the below-linked NIH article:The ketogenic diet has been studied in an animal model of depression. Murphy et al. [52] used a testing paradigm called the Porsolt test (a forced choice model) to study the ketogenic diet. Their findings suggest that the ketogenic diet can result in behavioral changes similar to those seen after antidepressants are administered.
...
A growing body of literature suggests the ketogenic diet may be beneficial in certain neurodegenerative diseases, including Alzheimer disease, Parkinson’s disease, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. In these disorders, the ketogenic diet appears to be neuroprotective, promoting enhanced mitochondrial function and rescuing adenosine triphosphate production.
http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029453.400-are-alzheimers-and-diabetes-the-same-disease.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898565/0 -
I know it's no miracle of food composition, subtracting calories like some kind of steak fairy. It was all about appetite control, and when I was very overweight, it worked great. I lost over 50 pounds with it. But now I'm in the normal weight range, and when I did low carb for three weeks, I either maintained or actually gained instead of losing any of those ten vanity pounds (hard to tell if I gained or lost due to water weight loss).
That doesn't sound like failure to me. Yeah, you're not at the weight you think you should be at, but that doesn't mean you're not at the weight you should be. You said yourself that you're in the healthy range. That means that odds are, you won't be able to lose that weight easily if at all on any diet.
This is not a bad thing.
Instead, it would probably be better to ditch the goal weight altogether and instead look at body composition. What's your body fat percentage? Start incorporating some strength training and start working on building muscle and losing fat. The scale won't move, or may even go up some, but that's ok as long as your body fat goes down to a healthy level.
Also, low carb should not be treated as some fad diet, where you do it until you reach a certain weight, then go off of it. It should be a lifestyle change, as useful for maintaining weight as it is for losing weight. And besides, no diet is going to give you results in three weeks when you're talking "vanity pounds."
This makes way too much sense, even though I don't want to hear it. Normal weight range is still a range, and I am not happy with how I look at the higher end of it, so I'm certainly not stopping, but I guess it makes sense it will be more difficult. I don't think I helped my cause going back on and off low carb several times over the last year and gaining and losing the same 10 pounds over and over, either.
Still, if low carb isn't going to cut my hunger and cravings like it did before, I wonder why I should put up with the morning dragon breath, assuming I can find a group of foods that work as well and don't leave me with breath that kills at 20 paces. Which I'm not sure I have found yet. I've been having digestive issues with my current attempt even though, from all I've read, it's a very balanced diet.0 -
You can be eating low carb and still be eating at maintenance or higher. Decrease your intake or increase your activity. The amount you eat matters. I don't understand the dragon breath part. Good hygiene and hydration should be the answer to that.0
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You can be eating low carb and still be eating at maintenance or higher. Decrease your intake or increase your activity. The amount you eat matters. I don't understand the dragon breath part. Good hygiene and hydration should be the answer to that.
My keto breath in the morning before I brush my teeth is so lethal even I run away from it. Maybe not everyone has that issue.
Anyway, I'll give what I'm doing another week or so, but my belly doesn't seem too happy with this. I think it liked the meat based diet better.
Edit: I do know it's still calories in, calories out, but I'm always looking for the best way to curb cravings and hunger. I was frustrated when low carb didn't do the job this last time.0 -
Maybe you need more fat to help with hunger.
Meat based diet? Sounds good to me......good luck and let us know how it goes and what changes you make!0 -
Maybe you need more fat to help with hunger.
Meat based diet? Sounds good to me......good luck and let us know how it goes and what changes you make!
It's a good suggestion, but I was happily eating fatty cuts of meat with the fat still on it and coconut oil, too. The more I think about this, the more I realize I was just getting discouraged too easily by expecting it to be too easy.
Still, it can't hurt to try a higher fiber, more roughage based diet for a few weeks and see if my stomach settles in. I've been avoiding my veggies since childhood, except for onions and whatever comes in a spice rack, so why not give it a real go? I was vegetarian for awhile but I ate all the crappy processed fake hamburger and fake chicken patties plus lots and lots of candy and soda, so I never did give it a real try. This time before I call it quits I'm determined to stick it out a bit longer. If my belly decides it really does hate these foods, at least I'll know I gave it a good try and I can go back to being mostly carnivorous.0 -
While I've never done Keto, the dragon breath is a pretty commonly discussed side effect. Heck, they call it keto breath.You can be eating low carb and still be eating at maintenance or higher. Decrease your intake or increase your activity. The amount you eat matters. I don't understand the dragon breath part. Good hygiene and hydration should be the answer to that.0 -
This makes way too much sense, even though I don't want to hear it. Normal weight range is still a range, and I am not happy with how I look at the higher end of it, so I'm certainly not stopping, but I guess it makes sense it will be more difficult. I don't think I helped my cause going back on and off low carb several times over the last year and gaining and losing the same 10 pounds over and over, either.
That sounds like even more reason to start focusing on body composition. What is it that you didn't like about your body? If you're still trying to lose weight, I'd venture to guess it's because you think you look fat. This is generally known as "skinny fat," and you're not going to be able to fix it by dieting down to a particular weight. You fix it by strength training, so go pick up some heavy stuff! Then, go do it again!Maybe you need more fat to help with hunger.
Meat based diet? Sounds good to me......good luck and let us know how it goes and what changes you make!
It's a good suggestion, but I was happily eating fatty cuts of meat with the fat still on it and coconut oil, too. The more I think about this, the more I realize I was just getting discouraged too easily by expecting it to be too easy.
Still, it can't hurt to try a higher fiber, more roughage based diet for a few weeks and see if my stomach settles in. I've been avoiding my veggies since childhood, except for onions and whatever comes in a spice rack, so why not give it a real go? I was vegetarian for awhile but I ate all the crappy processed fake hamburger and fake chicken patties plus lots and lots of candy and soda, so I never did give it a real try. This time before I call it quits I'm determined to stick it out a bit longer. If my belly decides it really does hate these foods, at least I'll know I gave it a good try and I can go back to being mostly carnivorous.Anyway, I'll give what I'm doing another week or so, but my belly doesn't seem too happy with this. I think it liked the meat based diet better.
Are you listening to yourself? Both your body and your words are saying that you do better on a meat-based diet. And yet, because it was "too easy" you think it must not be right? Does that make sense to anyone?
It sounds to me like you go from one extreme to the other. From what you've been saying, there's been pretty much no middle ground. You can include veggies in a low carb diet (low carb is not no carb) without going full-on vegetarian.
It also sounds to me like you think we should always be battling with our food in order to stay at a healthy weight. Why? It was really only in the last 35 years or so that people on a large scale had issues with obesity and its related disorders. Until then, people were pretty effortlessly staying at a healthy weight for the most part. Why is that? I think it's in no small part due to the change in dietary composition. It was about 35 years ago that the USDA started pushing the old, grain and carb based food pyramid and started telling everyone that fat was bad. And if you drop fat, where do you have to get your energy from? Carbs. Prior to that, what were people eating and cooking with? Real butter, real lard and tallow, bacon, eggs, fatty cuts of meat next to vegetables that may or may not have butter on them, a slice of bread that probably had butter on it, and a glass of whole (possibly raw) milk.
Suddenly, it was recommended that that be replaced with oatmeal or corn/rice cereal, skim milk (that had to be pasteurized, and then homogenized!), margarine (made with trans fats for a while, until people realized that those where really bad), tons of polyunsaturated fats (even though they oxidize easily, which is also really bad), egg whites (if you did eggs at all), and other "low fat!" stuff that turned to real garbage when the processed food industry got its grubby fingers on our food. Then what happened? People got fat. Diabetes rates skyrocketed (even kids are starting to get T2D, which was unheard of even 10-15 years ago).
Why? I'm of the opinion that it's because people aren't eating what they're meant to be eating. Even if you argue that the high-starch diet of Japanese have been linked to longer life, I'd argue that it's at least partly due to the fact that they're eating their traditional diet, or the one their ancestors ate into antiquity. Even discounting the idea that Paleolithic man evolved to the point that the Neolithic age (and thus, farming) happened due to diets that often had large animal-based components and sticking with dietary patterns of one's ancestors through this age, you will more likely do better on the diet of your ancestors, which, from the sound of it, is more meat-based (remember - look past your parents and grandparents, and look at the regions your family comes from). And, of course, above all, always keep in mind what you do best on.
The tl;dr version:
1. Staying a healthy weight does not need to be a battle.
2. Dieting very likely won't get you the body you want (unless you're looking for "skin and bones" or "skinny fat").
3. Eating what your ancestors ate will likely serve you better than someone's arbitrary standard of what a healthy diet is
4. Listen to your own body, above pretty much all else - feed it what gives it the proper nutrients and makes it feel its best
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/diet-fitness/diabetes/articles/2008/10/30/rate-of-diabetes-cases-doubles-in-10-years-cdc
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/prev/national/figage.htm
http://www.changingdiabetesbarometer.com/diabetes-data/countries/usa.aspx?intmap=prev#tab-1 <-- shows projected prevalence rates of diabetes over the next 10 years or so
http://www.cpmedical.net/newsletter/up-for-debate-does-eating-fat-make-you-fat
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-bailor/obesity-epidemic_b_4355781.html0 -
Dragonwolf, I love what you wrote here.....two thumbs up!!
And yes, people keep ignoring the difference between Paleolithic and Neolithic eating patterns, as well as geographical differences in ancestral lineages which impacts digestion tolerances.0 -
People don't realize just how much fat Japanese people eat! Fatty cuts are extremely expensive as they are more coveted. A lot of dishes are very fatty, and it is pretty common for Japanese women to cut out rice, pasta and bread if they want to lose a few pounds. Quite a few sweets are made with Stevia instead of sugar or high fructose corn syrup. I miss Japan!0
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People don't realize just how much fat Japanese people eat! Fatty cuts are extremely expensive as they are more coveted. A lot of dishes are very fatty, and it is pretty common for Japanese women to cut out rice, pasta and bread if they want to lose a few pounds. Quite a few sweets are made with Stevia instead of sugar or high fructose corn syrup. I miss Japan!
I agree. And China is the same. I remember when I was in China for a whole week on business, and i would have supper with my Chinese colleagues every night, and not once did we eat a grain of rice. I was shocked. When I asked them about it, one of them scoffed: "rice not healthy for you, makes you fat, better to avoid, and usually the poorer you are the more rice you eat because you cannot afford food like this". I almost fell out of my chair I was so shocked.0 -
People don't realize just how much fat Japanese people eat! Fatty cuts are extremely expensive as they are more coveted. A lot of dishes are very fatty, and it is pretty common for Japanese women to cut out rice, pasta and bread if they want to lose a few pounds. Quite a few sweets are made with Stevia instead of sugar or high fructose corn syrup. I miss Japan!
Yup to this. I came to Japan in the early 80s and was horrified that my bf not only did not eat low fat, but relished the yakitori and grilled stuff with all that fat dripping off it. But now I am eating every bit of it, too.
The sad thing is that the "low fat" diet craze has arrived and the ubiquitous "Office Ladies" are eating low fat yogurt and zero cal soda drinks, etc. It seems everyone is "dieting" constantly, to the point where lots of young women (and men) look anorexic (thighs that are narrower than their knees!).
OTOH, the "Wheat Belly" book has been translated into Japanese, so there is hope....0 -
People don't realize just how much fat Japanese people eat! Fatty cuts are extremely expensive as they are more coveted. A lot of dishes are very fatty, and it is pretty common for Japanese women to cut out rice, pasta and bread if they want to lose a few pounds. Quite a few sweets are made with Stevia instead of sugar or high fructose corn syrup. I miss Japan!
I agree. And China is the same. I remember when I was in China for a whole week on business, and i would have supper with my Chinese colleagues every night, and not once did we eat a grain of rice. I was shocked. When I asked them about it, one of them scoffed: "rice not healthy for you, makes you fat, better to avoid, and usually the poorer you are the more rice you eat because you cannot afford food like this". I almost fell out of my chair I was so shocked.
Everything I kept finding on them was all biased in the vegetarian direction, I guess it's because most of the information is based on observation of those areas shortly after WWII, when they were pretty much starving (incidentally, it seems that's also how the Americanized "Mediterranean" diet came about - post-WWII half-starved coastal villages) and so eating whatever they could get their hands on, which happened to be a lot of rice.
So, thanks for the clarification, and I love the response from your Chinese coworker!0
