Sumo vs. Conventional DL - an equation
tomcornhole
Posts: 1,084 Member
Was doing some research on sumo vs. conventional DL and found the below equation. I was a conventional DL until Sara recommended I try sumo. Made a huge difference for me. I don't go full width sumo. About halfway between conventional and flu width. Works great and now the math shows why. My ratios are .85 and .68 which puts me solidly in the sumo category.
Tom
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=108595111&p=181075901#post181075901
It depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a sport, such as football, you should really be deadlifting conventional. Strongman contests don't allow sumo style, so you're forced to lift conventional.
If you're training for powerlifting, it's not quite as simple. Ultimately, you have to go with which style is more comfortable, but you can determine which method will allow you to lift the most weight biomechanically. To do so, follow this method.
1. Secure a tape measure to the wall with the zero end at the floor. Make sure the metric side (centimeters) is what you are using.
2. Stand with your back against the wall. Measure from the top of your shoulder to the floor. This will give you your total body measurement.
3. With a straight arm and your hand in a fist, measure from the top of your shoulder to the middle of your fist. This is your total arm length.
4. Raise your thigh to determine where your thigh rotates into your pelvis. Once located, lower your leg to the floor and measure from the top of the shoulder to this point. This is your trunk length. Also, subtract this measurement from your total body measurement to give you your lower body length.
Record these measurements and perform the following calculations:
1. Divide "trunk length" by "arm length".
2. Divide "trunk length" by "lower body length".
The resultant numbers will tell you the following:
1. Arm to trunk length ratio. Example: If your truk is 50 cm and your armi is 65 cm, divide 65 into 50=0.77. This indicates that your trunk is 77% of your arm length or that your arm is 23% longer than your trunk.
2. Trunk to lower body length ratio.
These numbers will help you determine which method, conventional or sumo, will allow you to lift the most weight by biomechanical standards.
CONVENTIONAL
If your trunk to arm ratio is less than 0.82 and your trunk to lower body length is less than 0.55, you should consider the conventional style. With your arms longer than your trunk, you'll finish the pull with the bar below your hip joint. This finishing position indicates that the initial starting position of your trunk (trunk angle) will be larger (more upright). This would indicate more activity from the quads as well as the hamstrings and glutes. A more upright trunk angle will also create a larger knee angle at the starting position, making the shift of the shoulders, knee, and hip more uniform-that is, they rotate in a biomechanically correct sequence.
SUMO
If your ratios are larger than 0.82 and 0.55, the initial starting angle of your trunk would be smaller (more inclined) and will therefore position you in a biomechanically ineffecient position. With your trunk more inclined, the activity of your trunk and hip extension muscles will have to follow a different, more inefficient pattern. This will basically result in increased activity from your hamstrings and glutes and decreased activity from the quads. This will also increase stress on your erectors and particularly the lower back and could cause rounding of your upper back. The solution would be sumo.
Hope this helps.
Tom
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=108595111&p=181075901#post181075901
It depends on what you're training for. If you're training for a sport, such as football, you should really be deadlifting conventional. Strongman contests don't allow sumo style, so you're forced to lift conventional.
If you're training for powerlifting, it's not quite as simple. Ultimately, you have to go with which style is more comfortable, but you can determine which method will allow you to lift the most weight biomechanically. To do so, follow this method.
1. Secure a tape measure to the wall with the zero end at the floor. Make sure the metric side (centimeters) is what you are using.
2. Stand with your back against the wall. Measure from the top of your shoulder to the floor. This will give you your total body measurement.
3. With a straight arm and your hand in a fist, measure from the top of your shoulder to the middle of your fist. This is your total arm length.
4. Raise your thigh to determine where your thigh rotates into your pelvis. Once located, lower your leg to the floor and measure from the top of the shoulder to this point. This is your trunk length. Also, subtract this measurement from your total body measurement to give you your lower body length.
Record these measurements and perform the following calculations:
1. Divide "trunk length" by "arm length".
2. Divide "trunk length" by "lower body length".
The resultant numbers will tell you the following:
1. Arm to trunk length ratio. Example: If your truk is 50 cm and your armi is 65 cm, divide 65 into 50=0.77. This indicates that your trunk is 77% of your arm length or that your arm is 23% longer than your trunk.
2. Trunk to lower body length ratio.
These numbers will help you determine which method, conventional or sumo, will allow you to lift the most weight by biomechanical standards.
CONVENTIONAL
If your trunk to arm ratio is less than 0.82 and your trunk to lower body length is less than 0.55, you should consider the conventional style. With your arms longer than your trunk, you'll finish the pull with the bar below your hip joint. This finishing position indicates that the initial starting position of your trunk (trunk angle) will be larger (more upright). This would indicate more activity from the quads as well as the hamstrings and glutes. A more upright trunk angle will also create a larger knee angle at the starting position, making the shift of the shoulders, knee, and hip more uniform-that is, they rotate in a biomechanically correct sequence.
SUMO
If your ratios are larger than 0.82 and 0.55, the initial starting angle of your trunk would be smaller (more inclined) and will therefore position you in a biomechanically ineffecient position. With your trunk more inclined, the activity of your trunk and hip extension muscles will have to follow a different, more inefficient pattern. This will basically result in increased activity from your hamstrings and glutes and decreased activity from the quads. This will also increase stress on your erectors and particularly the lower back and could cause rounding of your upper back. The solution would be sumo.
Hope this helps.
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Replies
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Tagging.0
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Tagging, I believe I've seen this elsewhere (might have been on T-nation or elitefts) and I did my measurements a while back. This is certainly interesting on paper anyways.0
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Never did my measurements - going to see where they come out (out of interest as I am not changing back to conventional...sumo ftw!)0
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Never did my measurements - going to see where they come out (out of interest as I am not changing back to conventional...sumo ftw!)
Need help?0 -
Never did my measurements - going to see where they come out (out of interest as I am not changing back to conventional...sumo ftw!)
Need help?
Are there *kitten* measurements? I need help getting the tape measure around my donk....
....and is there an inseam one? ...no? damn....I think it still should be measured!0 -
Tagging, I believe I've seen this elsewhere (might have been on T-nation or elitefts) and I did my measurements a while back. This is certainly interesting on paper anyways.
Agree. I do not think it should be used as the sole reason to do conventional vs. sumo. Just interesting to see where you sit. When Sara suggested sumo to me last Sept, I went from a 1RM of 335 to a 1RM of 390 immediately. One day I could DL 335, the next DL session 6 days later I was pulling 390. Nothing changed except the sumo stance. And I have added 35 lbs to that since then. The equation merely validates that which I had already discovered via experimentation: my biomechanical advantage is maximized with a sumo stance.
I think there may be a number of folks that fall close enough to the dividing line to be good at either stance. Then it would come down to personal preference.
Tom0 -
Interesting exercise. It says I should be pulling sumo and I pull conventional. I'm not overly leggy/army? either. I've seen some people who have to get so far down to get their shoulders behind the bar they're practically in a squat. I did use inches though. Quelle horreur!
ETA: I just started typing "should I pull" into google. You can guess what the auto fill entered :huh:0 -
Just did the measurements - well and truly in the sumo 'camp'.0
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taggging for later as I have recently switched to sumo and loving it...wondering if it's because I am built for it...:drinker:0
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4. Raise your thigh to determine where your thigh rotates into your pelvis. Once located, lower your leg to the floor and measure from the top of the shoulder to this point. This is your trunk length. Also, subtract this measurement from your total body measurement to give you your lower body length.
I'm probably just a little (maybe a lot) dense, but I'm not sure I understand the bolded. Does this just mean to find where the actual bend/crease is? Or is it something else?0 -
Tagging to read later.0
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4. Raise your thigh to determine where your thigh rotates into your pelvis. Once located, lower your leg to the floor and measure from the top of the shoulder to this point. This is your trunk length. Also, subtract this measurement from your total body measurement to give you your lower body length.
I'm probably just a little (maybe a lot) dense, but I'm not sure I understand the bolded. Does this just mean to find where the actual bend/crease is? Or is it something else?
That's how I read it, but I could be totally doing it wrong.0