Hypo & PCOS - "smoothing" TDEE & deficit numbers
andeey
Posts: 709 Member
This is a "would love your best guess/opinion" question only.
I have used many methods of calculating my TDEE and deficit over the past couple of years being on MFP. I also have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's and PCOS, both of which put me in that odd place where the calculators don't necessarily reflect the reality for me.
My question is: taking into consideration those metabolic nuances, is there any sort of "conventional wisdom" that can be applied to smoothing the TDEE & deficit numbers? For instance, if a calculator is showing TDEE 2,500 for the proper activity level, would it be safe to assume that the Hypo and PCOS might generally lower that to say 2,000 or something?
This may be an impossible question, and most of what I've read in studies always default to "this assumes no metabolic/medical issues" when trying to calculate proper intake. But I've yet to see anyone actually try and address it or come up with a good figure to at least start with. I've done plenty of tracking with real results of my own intake, losses, etc., but specifically with Hashimoto's, you can fluctuate between "hypo" and "hyper" and so even those real life numbers are a moving target.
Any thoughts? Studies you have found? I'm just more curious since this seems like a (relatively) large population of people impacted by this (or other metabolic) issues.
I have used many methods of calculating my TDEE and deficit over the past couple of years being on MFP. I also have been diagnosed with Hashimoto's and PCOS, both of which put me in that odd place where the calculators don't necessarily reflect the reality for me.
My question is: taking into consideration those metabolic nuances, is there any sort of "conventional wisdom" that can be applied to smoothing the TDEE & deficit numbers? For instance, if a calculator is showing TDEE 2,500 for the proper activity level, would it be safe to assume that the Hypo and PCOS might generally lower that to say 2,000 or something?
This may be an impossible question, and most of what I've read in studies always default to "this assumes no metabolic/medical issues" when trying to calculate proper intake. But I've yet to see anyone actually try and address it or come up with a good figure to at least start with. I've done plenty of tracking with real results of my own intake, losses, etc., but specifically with Hashimoto's, you can fluctuate between "hypo" and "hyper" and so even those real life numbers are a moving target.
Any thoughts? Studies you have found? I'm just more curious since this seems like a (relatively) large population of people impacted by this (or other metabolic) issues.
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Tagging0
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Tagging although I won't likely have a good answer for this.
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You might try the thyroid group- there are lost of people over there with lots of info on this subject. From personal experience, I find my TDEE is roughly 300 calories less than what the calculators say- and I have PCOS and have had my thyroid removed (totally supplemented).
The issue that I find I cannot find an answer to is whether or not calories estimated by my heart rate monitor should be reduced to account for this, so if Sara or SideSteel can help with that I'd really be interested in knowing......as in- does a body affected by hypothyroidism actually BURN as many calories or burn calories as efficiently?0 -
I'm very interested in this topic, too.0
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I've not seen any calculator that takes into account PCOS or Hypothyroid.
That doesn't mean they don't exist, I just haven't seen them. As far as making adjustments for the variability that may occur in energy expenditure, I would still look at results and use those results over the course of a few weeks, to make adjustments to intake or activity.
So for example, even if you have fairly large swings in energy output, you can still look at results and average intake over a few weeks and make conclusions about whether or not you need to reduce intake or add activity/etc.
In a situation where you are dealing with someone who has no data and you're looking for an estimation tool you could have them just track all intake for a week or so without providing a set nutritional target and use that as a starting point from which to make adjustments.
These are just my thoughts at the moment.
For someone like yourself (although I'm not sure if you're asking on your own behalf or not), if you are using MFP already then you likely have a set of data from which you can make decisions.0 -
Just to add to SideSteels comment, while I have not seen any calculators, I have seen estimates of up to a 25% reduction in BMR for people with thyroid issues (I am not sure whether this is includes people that are well regulated by medication however). Note, that this estimate is anecdotal as I have not seen any studies on this.0
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Appreciate the thoughts. I was asking for me, SS. I've been at this for two years (MFP) although diagnosed with metabolic issues only the last six months (although suspected for longer). The data I have now isn't super valuable because I can maintain on 1,600 one month, then lose on it the next. But then I can also maintain on 1,800, then lose on it the next. It's a wily thing, this Hashimoto's ... I've been learning to alter my intake based on my training (crappy session = bit more food for a while) or too long a "plateau" and I might go down in calories for a while. I think I've worked out a decent system and I'm just accepting that it's going to take me twice as long (likely) to lose than others.
My question was really just to gather an opinion and I know you and Sara both devour research, so figured it was worth a shot seeing if you ran across anything out there.
Thanks again for the comments. Feel free to lock it down. :happy:0 -
Unlocking and bumping per request as someone has a contribution to the topic.0
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Thanks for re-opening the thread, I stumbled onto this and thought it might help on the subject:
I came across an article touching on Metabolism and PCOS. Apparently, the measured BMR was significantly lower in a group of women with PCOS (and further impacted by Insulin Resistance).
while the full article is not available for free - here is my abstract summary:
Study: Basal metabolic rate is decreased in women with polycystic ovary syndrome and biochemical hyperandrogenemia and is associated with insulin resistance
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678372
The study included 91 Greek women with PCOS and biochemical hyperandrogenemia, young and reasonable BMI (mean age 24.03 ± 0.55 years, mean BMI 26.67 ± 0.69 kg/m2) and 48 matched regularly menstruating women, with mean age 26.33 ± 0.93 years and mean BMI 23.35 ± 0.85 kg/m2, as control subjects.
Study showed Reduced BMR in PCOS with or without IR. Adjusted BMR was 1,868 ± 41 kcal/day in the control group, 1,445.57 ± 76 in all PCOS women, 1,590 ± 130 in PCOS women without IR and 1,116 ± 106 in PCOS women with IR. Adjusted BMR showed a statistically significant difference between women with PCOS and control subjects, with lowest values in the group of PCOS women with IR, even after adjusting all groups for age and BMI.
Women with PCOS, particularly those with IR, present a significantly decreased BMR.
Based on this, as a suggestion, I would recommend a rough 200 calorie decrease for PCOS alone and rough 400 calorie decrease for PCOS+IR in using a TDEE calculator for women with the confirmed condition or the consideration that the presence of a lower BMR might be related to this.
Which suggests not that someone with PCOS should necessarily be eating a lot less (because basic micro nutritional needs still must be met), rather that their daily activity level might/should be higher. Perhaps 20/30+ minutes of activity will cover this difference.
Hope the info helps.0 -
Evgeni, thanks for posting that. Wow, that is depressing!! More reason to hate PCOS.
But it's definitely helpful to know and I really appreciate you sharing that! And yes, good point that increased activity can be a better way to help counteract it than dramatically restricting calories. 0 -
Evgeni, thanks for posting that. Wow, that is depressing!! More reason to hate PCOS. But it's definitely helpful to know and I really appreciate you sharing that! And yes, good point that increased activity can be a better way to help counteract it than dramatically restricting calories.
Also, proper therapeutic management might impact those numbers positively. Once you know the issue with the numbers, possibly it is easier to understand and motivate your activity.0 -
Very true.
Also, I wish everyone on the boards would read this, as I so often people say or imply that it's "rare'" for someone to have metabolic issues where they need to eat fewer calories/lower carbs, but 1 in 10 women has PCOS and that is a pretty significant difference!1 -
Based on this, as a suggestion, I would recommend a rough 200 calorie decrease for PCOS alone and rough 400 calorie decrease for PCOS+IR in using a TDEE calculator for women with the confirmed condition or the consideration that the presence of a lower BMR might be related to this.
EvgeniZyntx - Thank you very much for the information. It was highly depressing, but makes that additional exercise I often "forget" to do all the more important.0 -
So I also have PCOS and probably am insulin resistant. My solution for trying to set personal calorie goals has been just simple math and tracking specifically net daily calories and weighing every day for the past couple months. This way, I can estimate what my personal BMR/TDEE is by estimating what my average caloric deficit has been to achieve the weight loss I have already, and adding that to average net calories I estimate what my BMR is.
It takes a few weeks for the numbers to start stabilizing, but I've learned a lot about my own body this way. It also forces me to be honest about all my numbers because the ultimate goal is finding the truth about my body. I have a Google spreadsheet that also plots overall, two-week, and weekly trends (so I don't get discouraged by sudden spikes in weight gain or apparent plateaus during shark week) and if you or anyone else are interested, I can certainly share it!0
