Do I need to lower my calories?

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kristafb
kristafb Posts: 770 Member
Hi everyone! I've been eating this way for 11 weeks now and in the last few days have finally seen my ketones start to go up, today was my highest at 1.4. Despite this my weight has been pretty stubborn. I know that weight loss is not a linear thing, that there are ups & downs but I'll lose 2 lbs gain back 1.5 and then fight to get them back off for a week or two. I'm averaging about 3lbs a month after my initial big loss when I started. Its slow to say the least.

I've noticed if I eat beef or a lot of cheese I gain, also any of the almond/coconut flour keto treats seem to do the same. I only lose eating chicken, veggies and tons of fat, in fact I have my best losses eating 1 big meal a day and a couple of fat bombs to tide me over.

Right now I have my goals set to 1400 with 5%carbs 20% protein & 75% fat, I was at 15% protein but I seem to do better with it a bit higher, but to be honest I'm probably eating closer to 17% protein.

Ive read some place that as long as your carbs are low and fat high you don't really have to watch calories, but is that true?? At what point does the body start using stored fat instead of the excess fat you're eating??

I really need a dummies guide to keto. I feel like a fairly smart girl, I've done the research, but still it doesn't seem to get me the results I've seen in others. I wish I could find some definitive research on woman who have PCOS who eat keto, so I can see my results are similar to others.

I know I'm rambling, so bottom line, should I be lowering my calorie intake? thoughts??

Replies

  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
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    Throw the scale outside the window and get a body composition test done. My scale wouldn't move for few weeks despite losing fat. Are you taking measurements? Do you know what your BF% is? I am not talking about BF% from those scales, but get a hydrostatic, bod pod or ultra sound. Personally I ate way more than what MFP, TDEE or BMR formulas on internet were recommending. Go get a RMR test done, it will tell you the least amount of calories you can eat with out Dr supervision. Try Intermittent Fasting before you lower the calories. You can lower the cals but if it goes below your minimum threshold, it's likely you will slow down your metabolism. You need to measure something before you act on it, it might also turn out you are eating more than you should.
  • rlengland2014
    rlengland2014 Posts: 98 Member
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    I have PCOS too. I've been doing this for about 12 weeks, with a few cheat days here and there. I've lost 24 pounds, but it's been up and down the whole time. I actually lost weight after a cheat meal, then gained two weeks later when I stuck to the diet, but overate my calories with protein.
    I agree with getting your RMR tested if you can. Don't know where to suggest you have it done, but I had it done at my bariatric physicians office. Kinda spendy ;)
    I have found that the subreddit keto is really helpful. http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
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    I live in Nova Scotia Canada and I have no idea where to get any of these test done. I searched on the internet and the closest facility seems to be in Toronto, which is not really in my budget right now. As far as my body fat %, well I've only gone by whats on my scale and a friend has one of those hand held things that measure you're body fat% and both say I'm at about 45% (yikes!)
    Next time I'm at the doctors I'll ask about the RMR test but I've found that any "unnecessary" testing is looked down upon around here.

    rlengland2014 - do you have a lot to lose? I don't feel so bad seeing that we've lost approx the same weight in the same period.

    Thanks for the feed back guys!
  • rlengland2014
    rlengland2014 Posts: 98 Member
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    Krista: I'd like to lose another 35 pounds. Another thing that may affect the speed is age : I'm 44. My friend who started the same time as me is 62 and she's lost about 20 pounds. Good luck!
  • LatinaGordita
    LatinaGordita Posts: 377 Member
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    Krista I started late October and my weight loss has extremely slowed the last 3 to 4 months (avg 2 to 4 lbs a month). I weigh once a week just to see that the scale does not move. However I have noticed that my pant size keeps going down. I'm 37 yrs old and was diagnosed with PCO at 21.

    My macros are pretty identical to yours.

    I have another 50 lbs to lose. Currently at 181lbs, and 5'1. I have come to realize that there is no rush in losing the weight because with the keto diet I do not feel that I am dieting. I feel full, and satisfied on this diet. I do my best to track my cals at 1500, however there are days I go higher or lower. I would also suggest IF for a couple of days then get back on plan.

    I eat a lot of pork, the only chicken I eat is chicken wings, and the beef I eat on the regular is hamburger 73/27. I do eat cheese but only an ounce at a time.
  • Golightly17
    Golightly17 Posts: 347 Member
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    I don't have PCOS but empathize with your plight in trying to get your body to cooperate! Here are a couple of sites that I have personally found useful:

    http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/do-calories-matter
    http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

    In regards to the dairy and nut based flours, these are pretty common stall foods. Easy to overeat but also common food sensitivities. I personally have a tendency to overdo the dairy when on keto, it's a convenient fat. Almond flour based things stalled me and caused all sorts of issues- it was an allergy. Beef can potentially be an issue in that large amounts of protein without much fat can cause an insulin spike.

    Hope this helps!
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    I live in Nova Scotia Canada and I have no idea where to get any of these test done.
    I don't know exactly what they have, but check with Dalhousie - the school of health and human performance is your best bet in the province.

    Don't go to Toronto for anything, eww. At least come to Calgary, we have mountains in the backyard. :glasses:

    http://www.dal.ca/faculty/healthprofessions/health-humanperformance.html
  • strawmama
    strawmama Posts: 623 Member
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    I would think increasing your calories would be better, actually. I tend to net closer to 2000 calories a day, even though my diary is set at 1580. When I do it right and don't OD on carbs because I've had a bad week, I tend to average a pound a week. Also, I don't know if this helps or not, but I've NEVER had access to the almond flour, coconut flour...anything like that. I've always had to use flaxseed or buy Double Fiber Wheat bread, or those low-carb wraps. Maybe try to give up all the "recipes" and such and get your carbs from leafy greens and even some berries.
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
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    Great info thanks everyone! Albertabeefy i couldn't agree more! Not a TO fan. lol. I'll check into that dalhousie info. I was actually thinking they might be the best bet.

    Strawmama & Golightly17 I am going to try to go with my flour substitutes for a week & see if it makes a difference. I cut out dairy for a week & didn't find it made much difference. I am going to continue using coconut milk instead of HWC in my coffee, its tastey, and I don't drink regular milk anymore, but I will be eating a bit of cheese here & there.

    A few years ago I did Low carb and I found beef caused me an issue then as well. I do best with chicken & fish so I'll stick with these.

    Latinagordita, I honestly feel like PCOS is effecting my results here, as it has with any weight loss method I've tried. But its nice to know that now matter how slow you can have success with this WOE. Its the first time I enjoy what I'm eating & still having some results. I've been doing a bit of IF on my days off, eating a huge lunch and not eating dinner, so from about 4- the next moring, usually around 9 or so, I'm only drinking water. It does seem to give me better results. Its difficult to do this while at work, everyone is always stuffing their face I find I eat a lot more while there.

    Oh another note, after over 2 months I am finally in, what I've read is nutritional ketosis, 1.5 this morning! its gone up every day for the last 5 days. Something is going right. Now I just need to get the weight to go done, That has gone up 1/2 a pound the last 2 days. grr!!
  • eels4peels
    eels4peels Posts: 229 Member
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    I would think increasing your calories would be better, actually. I tend to net closer to 2000 calories a day, even though my diary is set at 1580. When I do it right and don't OD on carbs because I've had a bad week, I tend to average a pound a week. Also, I don't know if this helps or not, but I've NEVER had access to the almond flour, coconut flour...anything like that. I've always had to use flaxseed or buy Double Fiber Wheat bread, or those low-carb wraps. Maybe try to give up all the "recipes" and such and get your carbs from leafy greens and even some berries.


    ^^^This! I usually don't bake with almond flour because it's so expensive and I'm the type of person that can't portion control any bread or cake like substance. Best to just go without for me. I did bake some broccoli cheddar biscuits yesterday and have already regretted it! :) I also started IF'n last week and I feel like that has improved my loss and also helped with bloat. I would definitely try a few of the suggested options before lowering your calories though. I mean why eat less to lose weight when you don't have to right? Good Luck!
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
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    Lol Thats very true eels4peels! I don't mind some minor IFing. I'll give that a try & see what happens.
  • Goofyrunnergirl
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    I have found that the subreddit keto is really helpful. http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/

    Here is another helpful subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/xxketo/
    It is for females and there are quite a few posts regarding PCOS and weight loss.
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
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    I have found that the subreddit keto is really helpful. http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/

    Here is another helpful subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/xxketo/
    It is for females and there are quite a few posts regarding PCOS and weight loss.

    Awesome! Thank you! I'll check it out.
  • SnowFlinga
    SnowFlinga Posts: 124 Member
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    IME, calories do count, but not in the traditional CICO way when you're doing a keto diet. I'm in the camp that strongly believes that it's much more about controlling the particular hormones that drive weight gain/loss. There are many testimonials and experiments that have shown that LCHF type diets do NOT gain the weight CICO would lead you to believe even when individuals are consuming 5000 cals/day. In fact, many of these guys lost weight, but in my mind that's an aberration in the data.

    Lately I've experimented with the BMR + TDEE hypothesis of how things work. The idea being that you should eat above your calorie requirements for your BMR and if you want to lose weight you need to run a deficit below your TDEE. So far this is working quite well for me. The advantage you have with a keto diet is the ability to meet these caloric requirements without even sweating it. The satiety provided by this WOE makes meeting your caloric goals much easier. By controlling the weight hormones (i.e. Insulin, Leptin, etc.) you maintain your sanity while also keeping your body from going into critical alert mode (this guy is starving us!).

    So my advice is to check out your BMR and TDEE and then figure out if your daily caloric intake is really where it should be. Spend at least 2 weeks tracking and measuring everything you put in your mouth until you re-educate yourself on portion sizes and how the foods you're eating impact your weight and overall body composition.
  • kristafb
    kristafb Posts: 770 Member
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    I did the online BMR TDEE calculators ( I don't have access to testing here) but they don't take into account PCOS so I'm not sure how accurate they are. My BMR was 1469 & my TDEE was 1841. I have my calories set to 1500. I do track everything I eat & drink and weigh everything. I'm pretty meticulous about it.

    I've tried upping my calories for a bit & knocked myself out of ketosis or pretty close to it (from 1.5 down to 0.6) and gained 2 lbs. so I'm back down to 1500.
  • SnowFlinga
    SnowFlinga Posts: 124 Member
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    I did the online BMR TDEE calculators ( I don't have access to testing here) but they don't take into account PCOS so I'm not sure how accurate they are. My BMR was 1469 & my TDEE was 1841. I have my calories set to 1500. I do track everything I eat & drink and weigh everything. I'm pretty meticulous about it.

    I've tried upping my calories for a bit & knocked myself out of ketosis or pretty close to it (from 1.5 down to 0.6) and gained 2 lbs. so I'm back down to 1500.

    Excellent - glad to see that you're pretty much completely on top of it. I took a peek at your food diary to see if there's anything obvious that you might try. In general your macros look pretty good most days, but what I see lacking is "consistency" (carbs and protein sometimes get a bit out of control). My suggestion is to pre-plan your meals for a week ahead of time (this is just an experiment although you may like going this route permanently if it works). By pre-planning what you're going to be eating you can work out your macro ratios and quantities ahead of time so that you can ensure you have some consistency over a longer time period. I have a spreadsheet called the Ketogenic Diet Meal Planner that I picked up off the web (http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/introducing-the-ketogenic-diet-meal-planner/) that I use to plan my meals.

    I know that I'm not logging my meals to MFP at this point, but my ratios are almost always 77-82% F, 17-20% P, and 2-4% C. Of course this has only been true for the past month when I got frustrated and decided that I really needed to learn how food was impacting my weight loss effort. That's when I started tracking and measuring everything. Up until that point I noticed that if I tried "winging it" each day that I would run into problems trying to get my macros correct and would end up unable to assemble a decent dinner to end my day without completely blowing it.

    I don't expect to do this forever (tracking and measuring everything), but I look at it as re-learning how to eat correctly.
  • camtosh
    camtosh Posts: 898 Member
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    That keto diet meal planner spreadsheet looks interesting, but I am an excel newbie and am not understanding how to get it to calculate... does it add the totals automatically? my copy didn't change even after I added in a few foods. If you don't use MFP to calculate your totals, how do you know the amounts of fat/net carbs/cals etc to input in the spreadsheet? I am cornfused...
  • SnowFlinga
    SnowFlinga Posts: 124 Member
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    I just downloaded the copy of the Excel spreadsheet again to see if there's anything broken in it. My version has been heavily modified to meet my needs so I thought it would be best to check out the version you have.

    The way it works is that there are 2 tabs. On the first you have to enter your food's nutrition facts. I added a column for "serving size" since the "Servings" column represents how much of it you have actually eaten. When there is nothing in the Servings column you should notice that all the totals are 0.

    So put in the food you have for a typical breakfast (verify that you now have actual totals) and then flip to the second tab called "Daily Goals". This page automatically calculates your macro ratios. You can tweak your ranges here just like on MFP (although with more adjustment range). I think the default range for Fat % is too low (mine is 75-85%) and protein is too high (mine is 15-25%) if you really want to attain a deeper level of ketosis.

    Hopefully that will help you get started with it. I have added another tab to my sheet to track my ratios for each day and another tab that has my normal "go to" meals pre-stored with all of their ratios already calculated and ready to go.
  • ultrahush
    ultrahush Posts: 23 Member
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    I second all the IF suggestions. I have really been trying to listen to my body and realized this week that I am not always hungry for dinner, but was eating it out of habit. I always feel best when I have a larger lunch, afternoon snack, and then little to nothing for dinner. Good luck!
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
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    PCOS is the key here, I think (side note - if you're not in it already, I highly recommend the http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/3087-p-c-o-sis group). It really does just make things more difficult for us a lot of times. I think you're on the right track though.

    When was the last time you had your fasting insulin checked? Not glucose, insulin. If your insulin runs high, even if it's not high enough to be considered diabetic/pre-diabetic levels, it may still be interfering with your weight loss. I had this issue. The cutoff for "high" is something like 20, and I was at 18, so I had to fight to get any medical help, but once my insulin dropped (it was at 12 at my last draw, and I'm currently waiting on the results of today's draw), I started losing weight relatively easily. It takes time, though, so if you run high, you may still be too high to lose weight easily. On that front, just keep at it, and it should start getting easier, once the diet forces your insulin down to sane levels.

    The other factor that makes weight loss so difficult for us is estrogen dominance. This can happen either by too much estrogen or too little progesterone. Sticking with whole foods helps the most with this, as does avoiding xenoestrogens (soy is a big culprit, but so are a number of compounds found in things like plastics, as well as drinking water contaminants). Also, make sure you're getting enough magnesium, which can help break down excess estrogen, as well as B6, which helps in the production of progesterone.

    Finally (on the PCOS front), if you aren't already, start a good strength training routine. I personally recommend a barbell, but I know some women for whom bodyweight training was sufficient. I don't know the exact mechanisms, but in my experience, it's been a huge factor in balancing my hormones, and I know several others who have had the same experience.

    You mentioned that upping your calories nearly knocked you out of ketosis. That really shouldn't happen (after all, there are people here and elsewhere who eat twice what you do and maintain ketosis), so I suspect it may have been something else. I'd guess that either your carbs/protein were too high (especially if you either went only by percentages or let MFP figure it out), or your body was just adjusting (it takes time for the body to adjust to any dietary/lifestyle changes). If your caloric increase came with carbs at all, then your body is going to gobble them up for a little while (in those glucose tolerance tests, this reaction is often mistaken for impaired tolerance), and ketones are modulated by insulin, too.

    What I generally do is calculate my protein with the 1g/lb of lean body weight formula and set MFP to the percentage closest to that, determine what gram level of carbs I want and set MFP to the percentage closest to that, and let fat fill in the rest. This does screw with the numbers as MFP calculates it if you do the "net calorie" thing, but with those, I just stick to my set gram-based goals for protein and carbs for the most part.