Need more protein!

ksellen1
ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
Looking for ideas on how to get some more protein in my diet. I'll probably add in a couple shakes but I'd prefer real food ideas. I get so full eating large amounts of meat. Any suggestions? I typically eat 3-4 eggs every morning, lunch is a meat and veggie...dinner is the same.

Replies

  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Your diary is closed. What are your macro goals?

    I actually have to make sure that I don't get too much protein. Fat should always make up the largest portion of calories consumed. Too much protein, consistently over time, is actually a dangerous way to go.
  • Jenny_Rose77
    Jenny_Rose77 Posts: 418 Member
    Too much protein, consistently over time, is actually a dangerous way to go.

    Sincere curiosity: why? I am always over on protein, by a lot.
  • Jenny_Rose77
    Jenny_Rose77 Posts: 418 Member
    Too much protein, consistently over time, is actually a dangerous way to go.

    Sincere curiosity: why? I am always over on protein, by a lot.

    Edited to add: feel free to look at my diary for ideas, since I seem to have no problem eating enough. Ha!
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Too much protein, consistently over time, is actually a dangerous way to go.

    Sincere curiosity: why? I am always over on protein, by a lot.

    Well, you set your own macros, so "being over" is relative. I can't see the OPs settings but a diet high in protein, low in fat and carbs is a dangerous diet. I have actually seen many MFPers trying to do it thinking "carbs are bad, fat is bad, so I'll just eat high protein".

    So, I'm just speaking generally against a diet too high in protein over a prolonged period but I have no idea if that is the case here and likely it isn't.
  • ksellen1
    ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
    Definitely scared of fat! My diet is dominantly fat but my coach said should be shooting for my weight *.07 in protein (I have a ton of fat to lose) so that's like 160g! My diary is now open, I haven't been tracking every day. I have my macros at 30/30/40 c/f/p
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Too much protein, consistently over time, is actually a dangerous way to go.

    Sincere curiosity: why? I am always over on protein, by a lot.

    She's referring to protein poisoning, or rabbit starvation. It's a situation in which you're consuming the vast bulk of your diet in protein. This is very hard on the kidneys and liver even in the better circumstances. The body can only handle about 1400 calories worth of protein in absence or near-absence of fat and/or carbs. At that point, you end up with a whole bunch of side effects, including insatiable cravings for fat/carbs, diarrhea, and even death.

    Such a situation usually only happens to people in survival situations who don't know better and try to live off animals that are relatively lean. However, the combination of the low-carb mantra with the low-fat mantra has created a situation where people can become at risk of it, because they started out low-fat, decreased their carbs, and made up the difference in protein.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Looking for ideas on how to get some more protein in my diet. I'll probably add in a couple shakes but I'd prefer real food ideas. I get so full eating large amounts of meat. Any suggestions? I typically eat 3-4 eggs every morning, lunch is a meat and veggie...dinner is the same.

    MOAR MEAT!

    Okay, a bit more seriously, let's look a little more in-depth at what you're eating:

    The following have about the given protein amounts (amount in given cuts vary, but this is about average):
    Eggs = 6g/egg
    Beef = 7g/oz
    Bison = 8g/oz
    Pork = 6g/oz
    Chicken = 7g/oz
    Fish = 5g/oz

    Okay, so most meats range from 5-8g/oz, so let's go with a median, for the sake of math and say that the protein in "meat" is 6.5g/oz. We'll also assume a 4oz serving of any given meat, which is about average.

    So, we have:
    Breakfast = 6*3 = 18g
    Lunch = 6.5*4 = 26g
    Dinner = 6.5*4 = 26g
    Total = 70g

    Alright, so about 70g is what you're getting right now, plus anything that you didn't mention here (incidental protein from the veggies, any use of dairy, nuts, or other things that have some protein in it, but not counted here).

    Now, how much should you be eating?

    I don't like the formulas that use total body weight, because body fat doesn't really use protein. It's your lean mass that uses it. If you're heavily overweight, you end up with way more protein than you need. Instead, I prefer the 1g/lb of lean body weight method.

    Since I don't know any other measurements, I'll have to guess, but it should be good to give a ballpark.

    To find out your lean body weight, first start by finding your body fat percentage. You can get a decent idea by plugging in your measurements here - http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/cbbf/ -- if you don't have access to other tools.

    Let's say for the sake of math that it's about 30%. Judging by the formula you used to get your protein, and the amount you mentioned, that puts your weight at about 230lb.

    230*.3 = 69lb of fat
    230-69 = 161lb of lean mass (and therefore, 161g of protein)

    Okay, so I ended up with numbers that come close to what your trainer did, but the question becomes -- are you really at 30% body fat?

    Let's see the difference if you're at 40%.

    230*.4 = 92lb of fat
    230-92 = 138lb of lean mass (138g protein)

    That's almost the difference between a meal that we worked out above! That's largely why I prefer the formula base on lean body weight, because it goes by your actual needs, and not an arbitrary number that only "happens" to work, because a lot of people's body fat is about 30%. It helps ensure you're not flying blind (I hate flying blind).

    Now, the other fun part about the 1g/lb lean body weight formula is that there's some wiggle room. 1g/lb is usually the upper end of recommendations unless you're a weight lifter in a bulk cycle. This means that if you don't quite hit it, it shouldn't be a big deal. I usually try to aim for at least 100g, since I do a lot of strength-intensive stuff. Assuming your trainer isn't a bonehead, and he's got you doing some good strength training routine, then you'll want to get at least 100g, too, even if you can't cram in 160g.

    Going from 70g to 100g is far less daunting than more than doubling your intake, I bet, so at least start with that. Also, gauge how you feel in the day or two following your workouts. If you're really sore, try to get some more protein in post-workout.

    Okay now...so how do we increase that? Well, 30g is only about as much as a 4oz cut of meat. That actually isn't that hard to fit in to your day, if you spread it over the day. You can do that simply by adding a slice or two of bacon to breakfast, and increasing your portions of meat at lunch and dinner to 5-6oz instead of 4.

    Already doing that? Well, that means you're actually over 100g (instead of the above-calculated 70g), which is great! Want to increase it even more? Repeat the above. Increase the size of your meat portion, or add a second meat (bacon-wrapped chicken is awesome) to your meals. If that gets to be too much, then have a fourth meal or a snack or two throughout the day. Things like jerky or hard boiled eggs can add to your total without filling you up too terribly much.

    After about 100g, I personally go by what my body tells me, though, because it does start feeling like a meat-fest. How are my strength gains? How is my recovery time? How do I feel 24-48 hours post-workout? How are the workouts themselves? Am I retaining the toned shape as I lose weight, or am I looking skinny-fat? (Okay, that one will be harder to use at first, but it'll be useful as you get closer to goal weight.) These things can help gauge how much protein your body actually needs and is utilizing.

    Also, 30/30/40 might be a challenge as Paleo with the amount of protein you're looking for (unless you eat a lot of chicken breast). You might want to just focus on your protein goal and let fat and carbs fall where they may. If you're getting your protein from meats other than chicken breast, you'll have plenty of fuel from the fats, and carbs as a macronutrient are largely optional (you get them because you need the veggies for micronutrients, basically).

    Oh, and because I can, and because she's just that awesome -- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Definitely scared of fat! My diet is dominantly fat but my coach said should be shooting for my weight *.07 in protein (I have a ton of fat to lose) so that's like 160g! My diary is now open, I haven't been tracking every day. I have my macros at 30/30/40 c/f/p


    Best advice I can offer ever. Stop being scared of fat. You are eating WAY TOO LITTLE fat.

    Dump the coach; they usually know nothing about nutrition except to tell people to not eat fat. At a bare minimum, you should get at least 50% calories from fat, and ideally, depending on your situation, much more. Your carbs are possibly too high, and it's very easy to consume too much sugar with carbs that high. Most people will do fine with 20% when they do NOT have metabolic issues. If you have fat to lose, and are not an athlete 30% carbs is often far too much (generally speaking - there are exceptions). 40% protein is excessive, but not dangerous.

    Eat more fat, especially natural saturated fats. They are good for you and you will start feeling awesome and you WILL lose excess stored body fat (as long as your sugar consumption is low). I promise.
  • ksellen1
    ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
    Sorry...I missed a big old NOT NOT NOT in my post. :) I eat fat all the time. Another piece of info that may help, I CrossFit twice a week. I don't typically eat carbs outside of veggies.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Sorry...I missed a big old NOT NOT NOT in my post. :) I eat fat all the time.

    :laugh: Ok, NOT scared of fat.... but you are only aiming for 30%. I say tomato, you say tomato. Certainly not all Paleo people are ketogenic, nor should they be (each person has different health challenges) but I don't know anyone with a goal under 50% (except for some starting out that are still in the avoiding fat mentality).
  • ksellen1
    ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
    Looking for ideas on how to get some more protein in my diet. I'll probably add in a couple shakes but I'd prefer real food ideas. I get so full eating large amounts of meat. Any suggestions? I typically eat 3-4 eggs every morning, lunch is a meat and veggie...dinner is the same.

    MOAR MEAT!

    Okay, a bit more seriously, let's look a little more in-depth at what you're eating:

    The following have about the given protein amounts (amount in given cuts vary, but this is about average):
    Eggs = 6g/egg
    Beef = 7g/oz
    Bison = 8g/oz
    Pork = 6g/oz
    Chicken = 7g/oz
    Fish = 5g/oz

    Okay, so most meats range from 5-8g/oz, so let's go with a median, for the sake of math and say that the protein in "meat" is 6.5g/oz. We'll also assume a 4oz serving of any given meat, which is about average.

    So, we have:
    Breakfast = 6*3 = 18g
    Lunch = 6.5*4 = 26g
    Dinner = 6.5*4 = 26g
    Total = 70g

    Alright, so about 70g is what you're getting right now, plus anything that you didn't mention here (incidental protein from the veggies, any use of dairy, nuts, or other things that have some protein in it, but not counted here).

    Now, how much should you be eating?

    I don't like the formulas that use total body weight, because body fat doesn't really use protein. It's your lean mass that uses it. If you're heavily overweight, you end up with way more protein than you need. Instead, I prefer the 1g/lb of lean body weight method.

    Since I don't know any other measurements, I'll have to guess, but it should be good to give a ballpark.

    To find out your lean body weight, first start by finding your body fat percentage. You can get a decent idea by plugging in your measurements here - http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/cbbf/ -- if you don't have access to other tools.

    Let's say for the sake of math that it's about 30%. Judging by the formula you used to get your protein, and the amount you mentioned, that puts your weight at about 230lb.

    230*.3 = 69lb of fat
    230-69 = 161lb of lean mass (and therefore, 161g of protein)

    Okay, so I ended up with numbers that come close to what your trainer did, but the question becomes -- are you really at 30% body fat?

    Let's see the difference if you're at 40%.

    230*.4 = 92lb of fat
    230-92 = 138lb of lean mass (138g protein)

    That's almost the difference between a meal that we worked out above! That's largely why I prefer the formula base on lean body weight, because it goes by your actual needs, and not an arbitrary number that only "happens" to work, because a lot of people's body fat is about 30%. It helps ensure you're not flying blind (I hate flying blind).

    Now, the other fun part about the 1g/lb lean body weight formula is that there's some wiggle room. 1g/lb is usually the upper end of recommendations unless you're a weight lifter in a bulk cycle. This means that if you don't quite hit it, it shouldn't be a big deal. I usually try to aim for at least 100g, since I do a lot of strength-intensive stuff. Assuming your trainer isn't a bonehead, and he's got you doing some good strength training routine, then you'll want to get at least 100g, too, even if you can't cram in 160g.

    Going from 70g to 100g is far less daunting than more than doubling your intake, I bet, so at least start with that. Also, gauge how you feel in the day or two following your workouts. If you're really sore, try to get some more protein in post-workout.

    Okay now...so how do we increase that? Well, 30g is only about as much as a 4oz cut of meat. That actually isn't that hard to fit in to your day, if you spread it over the day. You can do that simply by adding a slice or two of bacon to breakfast, and increasing your portions of meat at lunch and dinner to 5-6oz instead of 4.

    Already doing that? Well, that means you're actually over 100g (instead of the above-calculated 70g), which is great! Want to increase it even more? Repeat the above. Increase the size of your meat portion, or add a second meat (bacon-wrapped chicken is awesome) to your meals. If that gets to be too much, then have a fourth meal or a snack or two throughout the day. Things like jerky or hard boiled eggs can add to your total without filling you up too terribly much.

    After about 100g, I personally go by what my body tells me, though, because it does start feeling like a meat-fest. How are my strength gains? How is my recovery time? How do I feel 24-48 hours post-workout? How are the workouts themselves? Am I retaining the toned shape as I lose weight, or am I looking skinny-fat? (Okay, that one will be harder to use at first, but it'll be useful as you get closer to goal weight.) These things can help gauge how much protein your body actually needs and is utilizing.

    Also, 30/30/40 might be a challenge as Paleo with the amount of protein you're looking for (unless you eat a lot of chicken breast). You might want to just focus on your protein goal and let fat and carbs fall where they may. If you're getting your protein from meats other than chicken breast, you'll have plenty of fuel from the fats, and carbs as a macronutrient are largely optional (you get them because you need the veggies for micronutrients, basically).

    Oh, and because I can, and because she's just that awesome -- http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

    LOTS of info! Thank you! It'll take me a bit to get through it all, but the base of what I'm seeing is that maybe 100 is a more realistic goal? That should totally be doable for me. I don't eat much chicken, and when I do it's thighs.
  • ksellen1
    ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
    Sorry...I missed a big old NOT NOT NOT in my post. :) I eat fat all the time.

    :laugh: Ok, NOT scared of fat.... but you are only aiming for 30%. I say tomato, you say tomato. Certainly not all Paleo people are ketogenic, nor should they be (each person has different health challenges) but I don't know anyone with a goal under 50% (except for some starting out that are still in the avoiding fat mentality).

    I see what you're saying. :) I'm pretty much always at at least 50% fat, without even trying. Someone gave me those macros once, I honestly don't mind them very often other than when my pie chart shows up on my iPad. Thus the question...I've been told to up my protein so I'm trying.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Sorry...I missed a big old NOT NOT NOT in my post. :) I eat fat all the time.

    :laugh: Ok, NOT scared of fat.... but you are only aiming for 30%. I say tomato, you say tomato. Certainly not all Paleo people are ketogenic, nor should they be (each person has different health challenges) but I don't know anyone with a goal under 50% (except for some starting out that are still in the avoiding fat mentality).

    I see what you're saying. :) I'm pretty much always at at least 50% fat, without even trying. Someone gave me those macros once, I honestly don't mind them very often other than when my pie chart shows up on my iPad. Thus the question...I've been told to up my protein so I'm trying.

    40% is extremely high for protein. I wouldn't personally go even that high. Are you weight training like a mad woman? Why not just try different macro settings for a month at a time and see what feels best? yeah, that's close to the "balanced diet" setting which we all get told is the best throughout our lives. Doesn't work for many people. (Usually it's 30 fat, 30 protein, 40 carb. OMG carbs. Nope, doesn't work for me.)

    Again, I'm not an expert on YOU, but neither is the coach, or the other people/governments/food manufacturers/media outlets etc pumping out nutritional recommendations left, right and centre. You are the expert on you.
  • meghanner
    meghanner Posts: 180 Member
    Just looking at your food diary. Aside from what everyone else has said, you are getting very little actual micronutrients, which are essential for fat loss. There seems to be quite a bit of processed food (burger patty/ballpark hot dogs). These processed foods will only set you back in the long run.

    I'd recommend doing a 30 day challenge or 21 day sugar detox to clean up your diet and start from there. Once your diet is clean I bet you'll see the fat melt away. It's not all about macro's...micros are important too.

    Just my two cents.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Just looking at your food diary. Aside from what everyone else has said, you are getting very little actual micronutrients, which are essential for fat loss. There seems to be quite a bit of processed food (burger patty/ballpark hot dogs). These processed foods will only set you back in the long run.

    I'd recommend doing a 30 day challenge or 21 day sugar detox to clean up your diet and start from there. Once your diet is clean I bet you'll see the fat melt away. It's not all about macro's...micros are important too.

    Just my two cents.

    This is ABSOLUTELY true. Micro-nutrients make or break everything. That's why it's the goal of this lifestyle to consume whole foods and minimize processed foods.
  • ksellen1
    ksellen1 Posts: 115 Member
    Yesterday the hot dog was processed, the burger was not (I hand make them and freeze them). I typically don't eat processed food, but I'm not saying I couldn't clean it up. Damn wine. :) Thanks for the input guys. Sometimes you just need to hear it again...and maybe even again.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    Yesterday the hot dog was processed, the burger was not (I hand make them and freeze them). I typically don't eat processed food, but I'm not saying I couldn't clean it up. Damn wine. :) Thanks for the input guys. Sometimes you just need to hear it again...and maybe even again.

    Always take feedback as information only, not criticism. My diet sucks at times, very much. :flowerforyou:
  • justcat206
    justcat206 Posts: 716 Member
    http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/cbbf/ is awesome!! I've been super curious about bodyfat and lean mass and BMR and all the stuff it just estimated for me and it's giving me numbers that make lots of sense. And if it's true you only need protein for the lean muscle mass then I'm doing SO much better than I feared (and close to recommended calories as well). Thanks for that :)
  • butterbear1980
    butterbear1980 Posts: 234 Member
    My diary is open you can check it out I shoot for 130g protein a day. It really helps to build muscle, not get sore, and appetite control. I was only getting ~80g a day upped to 140 and have been feeling so much better!